“The motivation (for lying) is particularly baffling in endogenous deceit when the psychopath may appear to have everything he wants yet continues quite predictably to commence the manipulative cycle.” So says Dr. Reid Meloy in The Psychopathic Mind, p121.
“I don’t think they even eat an ice cream cone just for pleasure, I think they do everything for the effect it has, or the image it presents. It isn’t about what is REAL it is about what they can appear to be. To them, I think, if they can get others to believe it, then it becomes “reality” as far as they are concerned.” So says Ox Drover in a comment on this blog.
There is complete agreement about one thing regarding sociopaths, that is lying defines them. While studies show that many people lie daily, the lying behavior of sociopaths differs in both degree and kind from “normal” lying. Sociopaths do not just misrepresent the truth in small ways to spare someone’s feelings, avoid an argument or avoid trouble. Sociopaths misrepresent themselves and this misrepresentation extends to everyone they know. (For more advanced readers, there may not be much of a self there to misrepresent.)
You don’t need a checklist
So today I can tell you with confidence that you don’t need a checklist of symptoms or a forensic expert. If you are astounded by another person’s capacity to lie and misrepresent reality you can be sure you have encountered a sociopath.
I said a few weeks ago that I think Meloy’s book The psychopathic Mind is a great contribution to humanity. In this book, Meloy puts forth the idea that we can identify “psychopaths” by observing what he calls “the psychopathic process.” I searched the book for a precise definition of “the psychopathic process” and couldn’t find one but he implies that psychopathy is defined by the way a person interacts with others and with him/herself. He also says that it is possible to identify a “psychopath” by the way that person makes you feel. If you can look within yourself and monitor your own reactions you can learn to tell when you are face to face with “the psychopathic process.”
It doesn’t “work” on me anymore!
I have learned what it feels like to be “worked” and because I know what that feels like, “it” doesn’t work on me anymore. Sociopaths do not just lie, they work people. Their relationships are an occupation for them and it’s not just a job, it’s an adventure. They will even work when there is no apparent reason to. Why do they do this? They do this because there is nothing else they can do. They have little or no capacity to look within and find an inner compass of values and pleasures. As Ox Drover points out, the only real pleasure they have is their “work.”
Dr. Meloy gives a great example of a psychopath “at work” on page 138 when he discusses a professional who was “worked” by a psychopath. Knowing that he was going to be assigned a certain probation officer, the psychopath asked others who knew her about her interests. On discovering that the woman was interested in metaphysics and the writings of Alfred North Whitehead, the psychopath went and read the writings. He then gained the respect and admiration of the P.O. because he discussed these writings as if he too had a genuine interest in them that predated his knowledge of her.
Meloy says, “He does not just play the role, observing the limits of his character, but lives the part.” People are taken in by the psychopath’s work because in the moment the psychopath really thinks and feels the part. His part is real and yet also a deception.
You know you are being worked when the things you love/enjoy are mirrored in this way. You can tell the difference between this mirroring and real sharing by the extent to which the other person tries to build your enthusiasm and point to the apparent “twin-ship” you share. This mirroring and twin-ship can occur with big things as in the metaphysics example and it can occur with little things as in the ice cream example.
Now if you know what I am talking about, you have been worked; you are likely far along in the recovery process because you know what this feels like. If you have only a vague notion of what I am saying, Dr. Meloy has other words of wisdom for you.
In the psychopathic process there is a “complete disconnect between words and actions.” If you notice that a person’s actions point south and their words point north, you are dealing with a sociopath. To be concrete, if the person says they love you and either doesn’t spend much time with you, or repeatedly harms and stresses you, you are in the middle of a psychopathic process. But remember since the person “lives the part” at the moment he/she is with you and says “I love you” there is some vague reality to the statement (especially if the person has the disorder in a lesser form, see last week). To see the psychopathic process, you have to train yourself to pay attention to both a person’s words and to remember that person’s deeds at the same time.
If you do this you will be able to see the disconnect between words and deeds and the psychopathic process. If you begin to see the psychopathic process, it is very important that you not share this observation with the psychopath. He or she will not benefit from your feedback and may even become violent. At the moment you see the process, you must discipline yourself and disconnect. If you have problems with self-discipline you likely need a therapist to help you disentangle from the psychopathic process.
Recovery and discovery are about learning to pay attention. Pay attention to yourself and pay attention to what other people say and do. Most people need help in order to learn the skill of paying attention. That is the kind of help a good therapist can give you.
In the next few weeks we’ll talk more about the psychopathic process. Please feel free to share your experience of being worked or the disconnect between words and deeds.
Naughty is GOOD!
🙂
Dear Adamsrib, here’s my two cents: He’s only capable of a certain level of intimacy, and that won’t change. When you approach him, he will retreat, until he has an intimacy quotiant he can deal with. (never enough for you). If you retreat, he will approach you, just enough to keep you locked into his managable level. His approach will flatter and reassure you, so you will re engage, at which point he will back off, repeat, repeat, repeat. No matter which part of the cycle you’re in, the intimacy level will level out to what he’s comfortable with, it will never rise above that level and stay there with any consistancy…You will always be dissatisfied, and confused and crazy, feel alternatively rejected and reassured, but never happy. He is an emotional cripple.
Don’t let yourself be trapped by your own desire to have some controll, here. That is an illusion, but I believe he will show more interest, once you retreat. Don’t let your ego sing for joy…it’s a trap. GET OUT GET OUT, GET OUT.
This has all the ear-marks of a roller coaster ride through hell!
I only say this cause I know the dynamic very well. Been through it over and over and over, ad nauseam.
Kind of like Oxy’s advise…but…it might back-fire, and make him pursue you, just prolonging the problem, keeping you locked in.
FoolInLove:
Forget about the book.
The book is just an excuse to maintain contact with him, so don’t do that to yourself.
It’s like being addicted to a drug, and you want to go back for one more hit….do NOT do it!!
Let him have the book.
He needs it more than you do, although it sounds like he’ll just use it to improve his manipulative skills.
I have created a chart for you (I can’t believe he made you a chart LMAO 🙂 ) ….anyway, MY chart shows that your happiness/emotional well-being is directly proportional to the amount of No Contact you are able to establish with this guy.
In other words, the longer you stay away from him, the happier you will become.
No Contact…..it’s like a spa treatment for the soul.
.
I really appreciate the input. My screenname is Adamsrib not because I believe I, as a woman was created out of a man’s rib but because I could not find one that I liked that was not already taken! I was looking at a card from my BFF Adam ( right next to my computer monitor) and if he was not very married I would be his rib. But that’s another show. We have known each other since grade school and grew up together. We just did not marry each other. Darn!!:) But no affair there. He’s like a brother now.
I really am hearing what Kim F is saying. That is exactly what happens and I realize he is emotionally bankrupt. He had one of those doting mothers and because he was always a beautiful looking person-he grew up being fawned at constantly. Classic.
I agree that I am very lucky that he is indifferent otherwise he could be a stalker. Senior citizens can still pull a trigger! I am more concerned that he will lie about me to all of our friends. I do have very active social life at this senior fitness center. We all know each other. It is a real community. I feel as if I have to play nice and not say anything bad so I don’t set him off. I like the advice to not say a word other than we are not seeing each other anymore. Realistically, it is probable that many will think he is full of s#hit because I am so much younger than him and I am considered a catch (I don’t mean that in an arrogant way-I am a very nurturing person. I suspect this is why he zoomed in on me. He saw me coming. Mother Teresa).
I do believe that he really is into me but as Kim nailed it-he can only give according to his intimacy level. I needed confirmation on that. And yes, he is playing hard to get. Truth is I really don’t care enough to want to get back at him. Just not showing up at the gym at our regular time will be enough. His crew will be asking for me. He will have to lie and it may not be nice. Last week I did manage to talk to one of them and I said I was “finding my way out because he is jealous”. Men talk too, so they will know that I was the one that left the relationship. I did mange to stay one step ahead on that one.
My game plan is this: I also believe that he will come dragging his sorry ol azz back wanting to get me to come back. I will then tell him that he is not right for me. That I need a man who can be there for me emotionally and not with mind games. I feel it is necessary to make nice so he does not gaslight. I don’t think he is capable of lovebombing anyone but himself.
I can only thank God that I did not meet him when I was younger. There are girls I went to HS with at our gym and they remember him too. They still like him also but none has said that he was inappropriate but unless I have a rap sheet in front of me who knows? He has been divorced for decades. He says he has lived with women over the years but never wanted to re-marry. I am suspecting that he may be gay and I am the beard. Men in certain ethnic groups of certain generations do not come out. They cover up. Rosa: add this to your scenarios. If that’s the case then ewww I have slept with him. 🙁
Oh yeah, he smokes a lot of pot and drinks a lot of wine. He very well may be dazed and confused:):). A 70 year old pot head, wino. Great! Just reading this has helped me loads. What is wrong with us women??? Are we that desperate for a partner? That is all I have wanted. A decent partner that I find attractive. At 52 my pool of applicants is narrowing so if I am with an older man he better be hot. Just not weird! 🙂
Thanks guys. I will stay in touch to make sure I don’t cave. He does have some weird power over me.
OxDriver: What a WOMAN!! Wow, I admire you. I am in awe of that skillet of yours. I have one just don’t know how to use it yet. Comes from years of being a pacifist. I suppose it is possible to use it figuratively kinda like what you are suggesting about rubbing a younger man in his face. I am afraid that would only cause him to go postal. His ego is that huge.
Just re-reading my last post has me freaked out. I have to tell myself that if I could, I would do Sean Connary or James Brolin, maybe Clint Eastwood and definitely Robert Redford!:) If I don’t look at it like that, I will gross myself out.
Truth is: aside from his looks there is no light in his old soul. Why do I feel sorry and sad for him?
I stayed up late last night and watched the movie, “The Fabulious Baker Boys” with Machelle Pfieffer, Beau and Jeff bridges…it’s areally good movie, but so depressing. I woke up this AM thinking about it and decided that there is this motif of the commitment phobic male, who spends a life time running from love, meets this incredable woman, becomes involved against his better judgement, treats her like garbage, dumps her, realizws the error of his ways, because she is si incredable, and very, very special, and he seeks her out, confessing how wrong he was, and how sorry, and he will never, never be the same, and of course, she takes him back and they live happily ever after.
How many movies can you count that follow the same story plot? Could that be what’s wrong with us? Do we buy this as if it were reality? Does it mold and shape us to be good, and patient, tolerant victims?
I don’t know, but I do know that I am usually “in love” with the leading man , in these movies, and I admit that spartks fly for me a lot more with a man who is emotionally distant…sick. I don’t know why. It’s so self-defeating. There’s something so addictive about the come here-go away dynamic and I know I play a part in it…it’s all painfull, and at this point, I don’t even entertain the thought of dating…Don’t think I could stand it.
For foolinlove:
I gather you are still quite young. Take it from an older person. Don’t waste your youth and beauty on this guy. There are sooo many options for you at this stage in your life. I was married to an abuser for 10 years. I married him at 31. By the time I got out my youth and looks were gone. Can’t get those back I am afraid. Obviously you are a very caring person. There are so many guys out there for someone young like you. PLEASE, don’t settle for this loser. Take some time to get your head together. Kick his sorry azz out away from you and stay alone until you know what and who is good for you. Go back and read my posts. You don’t want that do you? You still have youth and that can get you a lot if you are smart and know how to use it. Educate yourself as much as you can and stay in therapy. Wait and the right guy will come along. Respect yourself and be strong!!! It’s hard being alone at Christmas, Valentine’s day etc. but it will pay off if you realize it’s all an illusion this romantic love thing. Wish I knew that at your age. Good luck sweetheart. {{{{{hugs}}}}}
Very well put Kim. Excellent post. I fall for the same crap. I do believe we are programmed for this from the crib with all the fairytale stuff about prince charming. The one leading man I relate to now in my older years is Rhett Butler: “Frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn”. Bam!
I’m slowly getting it into my thick 52 year old skull 🙂
Yeah, my thick skull will be 52 in the Spring of this year.
I got married at 17, divorced at 21, remarried at 23, divorced at 38, and hooked up w/ last spath at 40, got out of that at 47…I’m tired of self-centered men, and futile relationships that gruell on and on and on, and the unhappiness, and the hopelessness, and the yearning self-doubt and the relentless attempts to fix it, fix me, fix him….raising white flag, now…NO MORE FOR ME.
I love Art, Literature, my cat, and knitting, my G-kids, (really the only good thing that came out of my marriages, kids and G-kids) my solitude, and my peace of mind.