“The motivation (for lying) is particularly baffling in endogenous deceit when the psychopath may appear to have everything he wants yet continues quite predictably to commence the manipulative cycle.” So says Dr. Reid Meloy in The Psychopathic Mind, p121.
“I don’t think they even eat an ice cream cone just for pleasure, I think they do everything for the effect it has, or the image it presents. It isn’t about what is REAL it is about what they can appear to be. To them, I think, if they can get others to believe it, then it becomes “reality” as far as they are concerned.” So says Ox Drover in a comment on this blog.
There is complete agreement about one thing regarding sociopaths, that is lying defines them. While studies show that many people lie daily, the lying behavior of sociopaths differs in both degree and kind from “normal” lying. Sociopaths do not just misrepresent the truth in small ways to spare someone’s feelings, avoid an argument or avoid trouble. Sociopaths misrepresent themselves and this misrepresentation extends to everyone they know. (For more advanced readers, there may not be much of a self there to misrepresent.)
You don’t need a checklist
So today I can tell you with confidence that you don’t need a checklist of symptoms or a forensic expert. If you are astounded by another person’s capacity to lie and misrepresent reality you can be sure you have encountered a sociopath.
I said a few weeks ago that I think Meloy’s book The psychopathic Mind is a great contribution to humanity. In this book, Meloy puts forth the idea that we can identify “psychopaths” by observing what he calls “the psychopathic process.” I searched the book for a precise definition of “the psychopathic process” and couldn’t find one but he implies that psychopathy is defined by the way a person interacts with others and with him/herself. He also says that it is possible to identify a “psychopath” by the way that person makes you feel. If you can look within yourself and monitor your own reactions you can learn to tell when you are face to face with “the psychopathic process.”
It doesn’t “work” on me anymore!
I have learned what it feels like to be “worked” and because I know what that feels like, “it” doesn’t work on me anymore. Sociopaths do not just lie, they work people. Their relationships are an occupation for them and it’s not just a job, it’s an adventure. They will even work when there is no apparent reason to. Why do they do this? They do this because there is nothing else they can do. They have little or no capacity to look within and find an inner compass of values and pleasures. As Ox Drover points out, the only real pleasure they have is their “work.”
Dr. Meloy gives a great example of a psychopath “at work” on page 138 when he discusses a professional who was “worked” by a psychopath. Knowing that he was going to be assigned a certain probation officer, the psychopath asked others who knew her about her interests. On discovering that the woman was interested in metaphysics and the writings of Alfred North Whitehead, the psychopath went and read the writings. He then gained the respect and admiration of the P.O. because he discussed these writings as if he too had a genuine interest in them that predated his knowledge of her.
Meloy says, “He does not just play the role, observing the limits of his character, but lives the part.” People are taken in by the psychopath’s work because in the moment the psychopath really thinks and feels the part. His part is real and yet also a deception.
You know you are being worked when the things you love/enjoy are mirrored in this way. You can tell the difference between this mirroring and real sharing by the extent to which the other person tries to build your enthusiasm and point to the apparent “twin-ship” you share. This mirroring and twin-ship can occur with big things as in the metaphysics example and it can occur with little things as in the ice cream example.
Now if you know what I am talking about, you have been worked; you are likely far along in the recovery process because you know what this feels like. If you have only a vague notion of what I am saying, Dr. Meloy has other words of wisdom for you.
In the psychopathic process there is a “complete disconnect between words and actions.” If you notice that a person’s actions point south and their words point north, you are dealing with a sociopath. To be concrete, if the person says they love you and either doesn’t spend much time with you, or repeatedly harms and stresses you, you are in the middle of a psychopathic process. But remember since the person “lives the part” at the moment he/she is with you and says “I love you” there is some vague reality to the statement (especially if the person has the disorder in a lesser form, see last week). To see the psychopathic process, you have to train yourself to pay attention to both a person’s words and to remember that person’s deeds at the same time.
If you do this you will be able to see the disconnect between words and deeds and the psychopathic process. If you begin to see the psychopathic process, it is very important that you not share this observation with the psychopath. He or she will not benefit from your feedback and may even become violent. At the moment you see the process, you must discipline yourself and disconnect. If you have problems with self-discipline you likely need a therapist to help you disentangle from the psychopathic process.
Recovery and discovery are about learning to pay attention. Pay attention to yourself and pay attention to what other people say and do. Most people need help in order to learn the skill of paying attention. That is the kind of help a good therapist can give you.
In the next few weeks we’ll talk more about the psychopathic process. Please feel free to share your experience of being worked or the disconnect between words and deeds.
OxDrover;
I thought that then but not now, as I realize it was all an act and a lie.
Until I accept that he is a sociopath nothing made sense, now everything makes sense because everything about him was sociopathic, albeit sometimes subtle.
However, in the moment we can interpret their words and actions quite different. He was playing “innocent” and I fell for it. In the moment, he played it very well, for me at that moment.
Today, for what I know, I would have walked outside and instead of apologizing, I would say something like “who are you trying to kid and what is really going on?” I would also take such an obvious play as a serious red flag.
Now, I am happy for both his online trail and Love Fraud. Without these, I might still be kicking myself for “moving too fast’ and losing somebody special.
Now, everything I know about him is a lie.
Adamsrib;
Even if the sociopath is not I closet gay, you still have the risk of HIV given their near universal promiscuity. Given this, anyone sexually involved with a sociopath should get an HIV test.
I am glad you are moving on and taking care of yourself such as going to the gym. I even used my experience to motivate in the gym. Given that my x-spath is such an envious yet unmotivated little shit, I would love for him to see me right now, 15 pounds of muscle more than when he knew me…
BBE:
I never thought of it that way. Please forgive my ignorance. You are right! I appreciate your kind words. There is nothing like looking your best when running into a former flame. Especially if that person was a jerk. Don’t let an idiot get you down, I’ll bet you look great!
About three years ago I met a man on match.com. He was one of those few genuine people you meet on there. He was the only one that was. The rest were not sincere. He was everything I wanted in a guy and we were getting along great. We had a lot in common and shared life’s values. Not long into the relationship I threw caution to the wind and went a little to far with him. We did not sleep together but it got pretty intense. The next morning he dumped me. He got freaked out. He did it in a nice way but it really hurt. My point is that I suffered feelings of regret over being too easy with him for a long time. After that I never could sleep with another man for fear that I would lose him. Some I did lose because I would not do it. Damned if I did damned if I didn’t. One day I got an email from him about something not related to our relationship-a group email. I asked him about the ending of our relationship and he said that it just did not feel right to him and that I should not settle for someone if it does not feel right to me. I was amazed that of all people, he helped me to see there was no need for regret. I follow his advice now and I am here at this site because what I have recently been involved with does not feel right for me. The Universe allowed these things to happen for my learning journey. I do believe that someday I will meet the right person. Don’t waste one more minute worrying about what the x-spath thinks of you. It’s what you think of him that counts for you. He was not right for you. Someday you will meet someone right.
creampuff,
It’s good to see you posting again. I need to take a break from all of this too, getting sick of all the baloney that that we endure just by having a spath(s) in our lives. Anyway, I feel badly for you, having to participate in family gatherings and witnessing the disturbing behaviours by the spath step-daughter, not letting her realize (smart strategy on your end) that you’re onto her and her warped games. It’s hard on you, I know. Witnessing what you described would turn anyone’s stomach. Take care. Peace.
Dear Adamsrib,
Actually, you should be glad he “dumped” you—and not blame yourself about this….if he treated you that way he wasn’t worth having anyway. HIS problem, not yours.
It isn’t about being “too easy” or “too stand offish” it is about sex being part of a RELATIONSHIP, not an end in itself. If sex is all someone is looking for there are people who will do it for $$$$, if you have a relationship with LOVE it doesn’t matter if the person is paralyzed from the neck down, you can still MAKE LOVE. (BTW, when I worked in spinal cord rehab, part of our jobs were to show people who were paralyzed from the neck down that they could still make love to their partner in a satisfying manner for them both!)
OxDrover,
Hey thanks for the support. Actually this may sound strange but I understand why he did it. He was looking for a long term and so was I. Neither one of us is very religious but we are both culturally Catholic. Men in my culture (the good ones)are careful of who they pick for a mate as far as morals. I tend to be naive when it comes to the dating game and did not know that I should have held out. I also tend to be more progressive and not get boxed in by cultural constraints. It was a learning experience for me. I don’t put the blame on him or me. It just happened. Maybe the word “dumped” was a bit strong. When he called me the next morning he told me as nicely as he could that we were not going to work as a long term couple.
I agree with you about sex vs. making love. I look at it as making love, unfortunately the men I meet tend to look at it as sex. Calling it “making love” too early in the relationship sends a guy packing (or sex does-sheesh!) Where I deviated is with the guy who ended it with me. This is why I felt the regret. Damned if I do damned if I don’t.
This whole dating game is sooo frustrating. I feel like a freak because I want a decent guy who believes in monogamy. All of those are married or in a committed relationship.. I want to give up. I joke with my friends that I would have to get one at the courthouse, the funeral parlor or steal one!! It seems so hopeless. Adam says to hang in there that there is someone for me. I tell him we will have to clone him! Good thing his wife and I are pals- she has a very good outlook on our friendship. She knows she has a very committed man as her husband.
OxDrover,
Wow how did you go from teaching paralyzed folks to function sexually to training ox teams? You are a fascinating lady!
Dear Adamsrib, I’m a registered nurse practitioner (they call us advanced practice nurses now) and I worked in spinal cord rehab for years (loved it!) in 1994 we moved back to my family farm and I started working in public clinics (like a doctor’s office) in the rural area with just a physician back up by telephone. I loved that too. Then for 4 years worked in College health services, then the last 2 yrs before my husband’s death, in psych in the hospital on weekends only so I could spend more time at home.
I love history and outdoors and riding horses and donkeys and so on, and I was in a living history group so I trained steers (oxen) to pull a wagon for my “demonstration” and I loved it. It was great! Not many working cattle in the south (still lots in new england though) and I am a kind of a “ham” any way so it was a great way to teach kids about history and still play “dress up” (I have never grown up in case you didn’t know!)
Now, though I just have the asses (donkeys) because equines are protected from folks suing you if they are (the people) stupid enough to not know they should not stick their heads under the jack asses and the asses kick them. By Arkansas LAW they CAN NOT sue me if they are that stupid, but there is NO such protective law for BOVINEs (cattle) so the steers went to that great big freezer in the sky a few years ago when their natural life span had come and gone. They were 16 years old which is almost double what most cattle live to be, and steers or bulls usually don’t go more than 2-4 years so they had a grand old life and enjoyed lots of kids petting them and when their time came they didn’t feel a thing.
I hope I am as lucky when my time comes as those old steers were! I hope the LAST THING I SEE before the lights go out is the bottom of the back feet of one of the asses as he kicks my brains to kingdom come!
Ox Drover:
OMG you are so hilarious. I have been reading a lot of past posts and I am LMAO at yours, Erin Brock and a few others antics. It is sooo WONDERFUL to laugh knowing the hell we have been through.
I realized thru all this that my ex husband is also a spath and it all adds up now. I told my former teacher (the old fart from the gym) that I knew I was to learn something from him after all these years and that is why he is (was) supposed to be in my life. I thought he was to be my “Shaman Lover” as described in Elizabeth Lesser’s book “Broken Open”.
Yes, he did turn out to be that, but so much more. He was the catalyst for me to realize that I lived many years with a very sick puppy spath as my husband and what it did to me and my boys is still with us. This man I met at the gym (who came to me as a former “authority figure”, a teacher) only points the way to healing. In this way, I cannot hate him. Of course I was not overly involved with him (thank God for his indifference) and I am not super hooked like some here. What a brick to the head!!
I can just see you in your “costumes” with your team. God what a visual. That would make a fine documentary or something. You are that interesting.
About not putting your head under a jackass. I am afraid I have done that too many times in my personal life:) I am beginning to see that the men I choose are all faulty. Wow, Lucy do I ever have some learnin to do!
I am beginning to feel the anger at “Teacher”. If I end up with an STD, I will be murderous. I was stupid, Ox. I had never smoked pot and I let him encourage me to take some hits off his bong and well the behavior that followed was risky. Now I have to face the music. I am not ashamed to say this to all here. Hope it helps someone reading this confession. Sure helps me get the load off but I feel like such a juvenile idiot!! I spent most of my adult life in a very conservative Christian lifestyle and I am socially retarded! I was raised Catholic but left. I should have stayed Catholic. At least I would have gotten my oats sown when they were supposed to be not now in my middle years. Sorry for the rant. Thanks for your sense of humor and for sharing your life with us here. It means a lot.
Well off to bed. I hope I am not taking “teach” to lightly. It has only been a few days since NC. It could come back and bite me in the azz. G’nite.
Adamsrib
Dear Adamsrib,
Glad we can provide some comic relief, we sure need it here. Sometimes on Fri or Sat nites EB Hens, One and Rosa and I get kind of silly (sometimes others) and we howl at the moon!
Well, I smoked my share of waccy baccy when i was a kid, but quit all that a long time ago. Thank God I didn’t get involved with anything stronger or worse! Or catch something Penicillian won’t cure! That’s the thing about sex outside of a REAL committed relationship. It can KILL you!
I’m no prude that’s for sure, but I have quit being “religious” and have become much more spiritual. I think I was literally abused by my “religious” teaching that was NOT followed by my egg donor—lying was terrible for me, but she had a “good reason” so hers was OK. Typical, but I actually did not realize I had an “abusive” childhood…I actually thought in a lot of ways it was GREAT and in some ways it was. I just accepted most of what I was spoon fed as “Gospel truth” only SOME of it didn’t slide down so smoothly.
Now, I EXAMINE what I take in rather than swallowing anyone else’s “Gospel” without examining it.
Your TEACHER did teach you something. Maybe not what you thought the lesson would be, but YOU GOT IT CHICKIE!!! That’s the thing we must realize is “when we need the lesson, the teacher comes.” I think “someone” said that once upon a time. (not sure who but someone will tell me!~)
Don’t feel bad for being a “late bloomer” there aren’t too many much later bloomers Than I am! Sweet Gemini is the only one I think later than me, and she’s not much “more mature,” so you are in good company.
Learning to set boundaries and deciding what it is that you will ALLOW others to do to you, or the way they will treat you, that’s the score I think.
‘
Sit down and make a list of what you will NOT allow.
I mean if you make a list of what you will allow it could be a million pages long. “Will allow someone to give me diamonds, roses, money…cars…etc”
But if you make a list of ABSOLUTE DEAL BREAKERS like “NO lies. None. Zip. Zero lies.”
NO dishonesty of any kind.
etc.
Matt one of our wonderful guys here has a “tion” list for people he dates.
They mjust have:
Transporta-TION
Habita-TION
Educa-TION
Reputa-TION
Etc. I can’t remember what the rest of them are but like “job-tion” or whatever. In other words no mooches, no creeps, no druggies and so on. Even then you can still get burned but if you eliminate the convicts and druggies and drunks, it is a good start!