“The motivation (for lying) is particularly baffling in endogenous deceit when the psychopath may appear to have everything he wants yet continues quite predictably to commence the manipulative cycle.” So says Dr. Reid Meloy in The Psychopathic Mind, p121.
“I don’t think they even eat an ice cream cone just for pleasure, I think they do everything for the effect it has, or the image it presents. It isn’t about what is REAL it is about what they can appear to be. To them, I think, if they can get others to believe it, then it becomes “reality” as far as they are concerned.” So says Ox Drover in a comment on this blog.
There is complete agreement about one thing regarding sociopaths, that is lying defines them. While studies show that many people lie daily, the lying behavior of sociopaths differs in both degree and kind from “normal” lying. Sociopaths do not just misrepresent the truth in small ways to spare someone’s feelings, avoid an argument or avoid trouble. Sociopaths misrepresent themselves and this misrepresentation extends to everyone they know. (For more advanced readers, there may not be much of a self there to misrepresent.)
You don’t need a checklist
So today I can tell you with confidence that you don’t need a checklist of symptoms or a forensic expert. If you are astounded by another person’s capacity to lie and misrepresent reality you can be sure you have encountered a sociopath.
I said a few weeks ago that I think Meloy’s book The psychopathic Mind is a great contribution to humanity. In this book, Meloy puts forth the idea that we can identify “psychopaths” by observing what he calls “the psychopathic process.” I searched the book for a precise definition of “the psychopathic process” and couldn’t find one but he implies that psychopathy is defined by the way a person interacts with others and with him/herself. He also says that it is possible to identify a “psychopath” by the way that person makes you feel. If you can look within yourself and monitor your own reactions you can learn to tell when you are face to face with “the psychopathic process.”
It doesn’t “work” on me anymore!
I have learned what it feels like to be “worked” and because I know what that feels like, “it” doesn’t work on me anymore. Sociopaths do not just lie, they work people. Their relationships are an occupation for them and it’s not just a job, it’s an adventure. They will even work when there is no apparent reason to. Why do they do this? They do this because there is nothing else they can do. They have little or no capacity to look within and find an inner compass of values and pleasures. As Ox Drover points out, the only real pleasure they have is their “work.”
Dr. Meloy gives a great example of a psychopath “at work” on page 138 when he discusses a professional who was “worked” by a psychopath. Knowing that he was going to be assigned a certain probation officer, the psychopath asked others who knew her about her interests. On discovering that the woman was interested in metaphysics and the writings of Alfred North Whitehead, the psychopath went and read the writings. He then gained the respect and admiration of the P.O. because he discussed these writings as if he too had a genuine interest in them that predated his knowledge of her.
Meloy says, “He does not just play the role, observing the limits of his character, but lives the part.” People are taken in by the psychopath’s work because in the moment the psychopath really thinks and feels the part. His part is real and yet also a deception.
You know you are being worked when the things you love/enjoy are mirrored in this way. You can tell the difference between this mirroring and real sharing by the extent to which the other person tries to build your enthusiasm and point to the apparent “twin-ship” you share. This mirroring and twin-ship can occur with big things as in the metaphysics example and it can occur with little things as in the ice cream example.
Now if you know what I am talking about, you have been worked; you are likely far along in the recovery process because you know what this feels like. If you have only a vague notion of what I am saying, Dr. Meloy has other words of wisdom for you.
In the psychopathic process there is a “complete disconnect between words and actions.” If you notice that a person’s actions point south and their words point north, you are dealing with a sociopath. To be concrete, if the person says they love you and either doesn’t spend much time with you, or repeatedly harms and stresses you, you are in the middle of a psychopathic process. But remember since the person “lives the part” at the moment he/she is with you and says “I love you” there is some vague reality to the statement (especially if the person has the disorder in a lesser form, see last week). To see the psychopathic process, you have to train yourself to pay attention to both a person’s words and to remember that person’s deeds at the same time.
If you do this you will be able to see the disconnect between words and deeds and the psychopathic process. If you begin to see the psychopathic process, it is very important that you not share this observation with the psychopath. He or she will not benefit from your feedback and may even become violent. At the moment you see the process, you must discipline yourself and disconnect. If you have problems with self-discipline you likely need a therapist to help you disentangle from the psychopathic process.
Recovery and discovery are about learning to pay attention. Pay attention to yourself and pay attention to what other people say and do. Most people need help in order to learn the skill of paying attention. That is the kind of help a good therapist can give you.
In the next few weeks we’ll talk more about the psychopathic process. Please feel free to share your experience of being worked or the disconnect between words and deeds.
Dear Fearlesspeace,
Yea, I accept “white lies” like “do these pants make my butt look big?” LOL But DECEPTION for hiding something you have done that is BAD? NAH! One strike and you are out! DISHONESTY? Nah, if you will be dishonest to someone else, you WILL BE dishonest with me. MEAN to someone—anyone? Yea, You WILL BE mean to me some time or other so I will not wait around until “some time.”
It is a shame that people are not trustworthy, but you know I think “honest” is like DEAD or PREGNANT– you either IS OR AIN’T. You can’t be a little bit dead, or a little bit pregnant, or a little bit honest, or a little bit truthful—-just doesn’t work for me!
Even Ted Bundy was a “nice guy” when he wasn’t raping and killing! LOL
I read somewhere the “rule of threes” and that was you gave a person 3 chances—like with lies etc.–like it might be a “mistake” that someone lied? NAH! A “mistake” is adding 2+2 and getting 5 when you balance your check book. It might make you bounce a check but—BUT when you DELIBERATELY write a check knowing there is NO money in the account—that is NOT A MISTAKE!!!! That is a “DELIBERATE” and when you DELIBERATELY do something dishonest, you ARE dishonest. And I need you WHYYYYYY?
I laugh when I hear people say “He made a MISTAKE and robbed a liquor store, but now he wants to go straight.”
MISTAKE???? MISTAKE??? Nah, he DELIBERATELY ROBBED A LIQUOR STORE and he got CAUGHT so now he is sorry! He found JEZZZZZUS IN PRISON!!!!!— Yea, Jesus Garcia, in the cell next door.
I hate it when people lie to me—wish I could remember the philosopher’s name who said (paraphrase) “I don’t hate that you lied to me, I hate it that I can never again believe you!”
So how can I BELIEVE in and trust anyone who does lie to me? Without TRUST, how can I have a LOVING relationship with this person? How can I be close to them in my heart? Why would I WANT to be close to this person?
Sure, I’ve lied in the past (I mean real lies, not just “white lies” about the size of someone’s butt or the taste of their food) but I have not only “given this up for Lent”–I have given it up for LIFE. “Thou shalt not bear false witness” (that not only means on the witness stand, I think, but in life and relationships as well.)
Great quote, it’s Friedrick Neitzsche. He also has said, “One may sometimes tell a lie, but the grimace that accompanies it tells the truth.” Perhaps this is what your step-father could see.
Totally right on about giving up lying for LIFE. It’s too much trouble and I am not the teenage me who needed a lie to get me out of trouble; however, I do not share total truths, plans and intentions with my S/N–that would be stupid and while I don’t spin tales, I don’t show my cards either. Life is so much better without a liar under my roof!
Yea, thanks, Fearless, I wish I had a mind, it would be so good to have a memory too, maybe Santa will bring me them for Christmas! CRS!!!!
You are right about that! Better without a P or anyone dysfunctional in our lives or in our homes. It is wonderful to life P-FREE.
Yea, I don’t need to lie about what time I got home last night either! LOL I also agree about NOT showing all your cards, or any of them for that matter. In the past I have been way too bold about showing my cards, trying to hopefully get them to see that they had more to lose than I did and that their threats couldn’t move me–Oh, well, found out that doesn’t work, so play’em close to the vest now. LOL
Fearless, Oxy, Hope forjoy, polly, and all of you,YOU ARE SO FREAKING RIGHT ON! About the “word salad” cons the spaths pull on us. My Ds would say things like,”How do you ever expect to have a NORMAl loving Mother/Daughter relationship when you keep bringing up the past? When you are crazy one? When YOU should be committed?When you embarras us in front of our friends? When you behave like a n unfit Mother? On and on till I almost believed them! Not any more!
Yesterday, I found a huge box of old photos of them, including nice portrait shots taken after Davids and my wedding in 1984. Even then, the smile on their faces looked so forced and false, didnt reach their eyes.TOTAL Phoneys and Narcs!! I tore up every one, and threw out a huge bag ful. Only have ‘little girl” pics of them now.
Boy, did it feel good! I couldnt have done this 6 months ago
Now I have to aspire to the “Nirvana of Indiference”–not there yet, I MUST purge all hatred bitterness and anger out of my heart. They are plain not worth it. As Oxy says, and Ive also heard it before,
“Thinking vengeful thoughts about an enemy is like drinking poison yourself and hoping the enemy will die!”meanwhile, they go on with their spathy lives,in total ignorance of us, and they could care less about us!!
God or the Universe will sort them out in the end, Karma will win out! I should feel sorry for their sorry butts, but I dont any more so perhaps I am making progress! Thank you God!!
Love and Hugs to you all.You are all AWESOME!!!
Mama gem.XX
Mama gem,
I’m glad you’re able to purge them from your system. It’s not worth hanging on to the bitterness, they sure don’t care. There is no talking to them because they don’t get it, will never get it, will die not getting it. Strange how they all have the same type of communication, “word salad” is a good discription. Boggles the mind.
I believe in karma. It will come around. Your adopted children are your saving grace and are blessings in your life. When you look at the spath daughters, they don’t hold a candle to the people in your life who really care about you.
Just a quick note regarding their ability to lie…
My husband is more than handsome and charming. Maybe he can’t fool ALL the people ALL the time, but he is convincing ALL the people that he needs to ALL the time.
THAT ability put my life in danger b/c he inspires people to do things they wouldn’t ordinarily do.
I read the emails to/from him (family email address that he never changed the password, it is mine as much as his). The emails showed me HOW he manipulates, what he says and how he hooks into their innermost desires, and they show how he can seem so sincere but totally lying the entire time (he weaves one part of the truth into it). He also “redefines” words, but he doesn’t tell the other person what HIS word meaning is. I now see his patterns and how I was scammed. And I admit, a wee small part of me admires how good he is at it and how so many people are taken in by it (but I still have a fnatasy of exposing him.) HOwever, No one questions his logic, that his stories are nonsense. (that’s where my life starting going downhill, questioning the illogical). And even with PROOF that he lied, people defend him and hated me for showing the proof (I don’t warn people anymore, the price of honesty was too high. It’s also why I don’t expose him. I’d rather be safely leading my own life than watching my back.)
Another thing, he’s Totally aware of his lying. He refines it each time he uses the scam. It’s NOT a matter of lying to get something or even to manipulate. He lies as a game of one upsmanship. That’s why his best targets are smart, successful women. He LOVES the game of reducing them to paranoid, doubting, confused, and damaged. But, we also recover better b/c when he is gone, we get ourselves back, wiser and stronger. Although I also say, he taught me things no human should have needed to know.
KatyDid, wonderful post, very inspiring. TY
Gem:
I love to cook GOOD food….love to EAT it even more.
No boxed food around here.
I’m glad for you gem….your moving along the path nicely!!!
If we just trust the process and allow our ‘tomorrows’ to come….they will.
You are very fortunate to have love in your heart!!!!
Hi all! It’s midnight here on the east coast!
Mama Gem, it sounds like that was significant for you to tear up all the pics. Ya know, I can understand that it’s sad when you can’t have a normal relationship with your own family. It’s also very interesting that I’ve noticed that most, if not all of us, who post here have family members that are Spaths as well. It’s no wonder we got involved with Spaths outside the family. It feels normal to us, and we have to be SOOOO aware so that we have the best chance of not falling into the trap again.
Hopeful6596~
Katy:
Girl…..use all the ‘loopholes’ spaths keep open! Love the email access!!!!!
Ya know what……it’ll have the same password 10 years from now too…….!
They never think to change em. Bet the phone vm code is the same, the banking password, the cc passwords……etc….
Check it all out……
When spath drained our mutual account and opened up a new sole account…..I ‘helped’ him out and set up an online banking access…. :).
It helped me immensley, since he never turned over bank statements in discovery…….
He NEVER knew I had access to them…….we just pressed him for the statements to show the judge no cooperation.
I already knew the money going in and out……HA! So that’s what my attorney worked off of.
I also had all the credit cards set up online……(his cards)…..fool never did change those….to this day….I still get notice of his payments and balances etc…..this will come in handy since the IRS may be interested in how he’s paying 25K off after he just signed a legal document he was broke with -0- money. Also where the 100K came from to buy the drugs he was recently caught with and charged with several felonies……
Hmmmmmmm,
They are NOT the sharpest tools in the shed!
Use what ya gotta girl!!!!!