“The motivation (for lying) is particularly baffling in endogenous deceit when the psychopath may appear to have everything he wants yet continues quite predictably to commence the manipulative cycle.” So says Dr. Reid Meloy in The Psychopathic Mind, p121.
“I don’t think they even eat an ice cream cone just for pleasure, I think they do everything for the effect it has, or the image it presents. It isn’t about what is REAL it is about what they can appear to be. To them, I think, if they can get others to believe it, then it becomes “reality” as far as they are concerned.” So says Ox Drover in a comment on this blog.
There is complete agreement about one thing regarding sociopaths, that is lying defines them. While studies show that many people lie daily, the lying behavior of sociopaths differs in both degree and kind from “normal” lying. Sociopaths do not just misrepresent the truth in small ways to spare someone’s feelings, avoid an argument or avoid trouble. Sociopaths misrepresent themselves and this misrepresentation extends to everyone they know. (For more advanced readers, there may not be much of a self there to misrepresent.)
You don’t need a checklist
So today I can tell you with confidence that you don’t need a checklist of symptoms or a forensic expert. If you are astounded by another person’s capacity to lie and misrepresent reality you can be sure you have encountered a sociopath.
I said a few weeks ago that I think Meloy’s book The psychopathic Mind is a great contribution to humanity. In this book, Meloy puts forth the idea that we can identify “psychopaths” by observing what he calls “the psychopathic process.” I searched the book for a precise definition of “the psychopathic process” and couldn’t find one but he implies that psychopathy is defined by the way a person interacts with others and with him/herself. He also says that it is possible to identify a “psychopath” by the way that person makes you feel. If you can look within yourself and monitor your own reactions you can learn to tell when you are face to face with “the psychopathic process.”
It doesn’t “work” on me anymore!
I have learned what it feels like to be “worked” and because I know what that feels like, “it” doesn’t work on me anymore. Sociopaths do not just lie, they work people. Their relationships are an occupation for them and it’s not just a job, it’s an adventure. They will even work when there is no apparent reason to. Why do they do this? They do this because there is nothing else they can do. They have little or no capacity to look within and find an inner compass of values and pleasures. As Ox Drover points out, the only real pleasure they have is their “work.”
Dr. Meloy gives a great example of a psychopath “at work” on page 138 when he discusses a professional who was “worked” by a psychopath. Knowing that he was going to be assigned a certain probation officer, the psychopath asked others who knew her about her interests. On discovering that the woman was interested in metaphysics and the writings of Alfred North Whitehead, the psychopath went and read the writings. He then gained the respect and admiration of the P.O. because he discussed these writings as if he too had a genuine interest in them that predated his knowledge of her.
Meloy says, “He does not just play the role, observing the limits of his character, but lives the part.” People are taken in by the psychopath’s work because in the moment the psychopath really thinks and feels the part. His part is real and yet also a deception.
You know you are being worked when the things you love/enjoy are mirrored in this way. You can tell the difference between this mirroring and real sharing by the extent to which the other person tries to build your enthusiasm and point to the apparent “twin-ship” you share. This mirroring and twin-ship can occur with big things as in the metaphysics example and it can occur with little things as in the ice cream example.
Now if you know what I am talking about, you have been worked; you are likely far along in the recovery process because you know what this feels like. If you have only a vague notion of what I am saying, Dr. Meloy has other words of wisdom for you.
In the psychopathic process there is a “complete disconnect between words and actions.” If you notice that a person’s actions point south and their words point north, you are dealing with a sociopath. To be concrete, if the person says they love you and either doesn’t spend much time with you, or repeatedly harms and stresses you, you are in the middle of a psychopathic process. But remember since the person “lives the part” at the moment he/she is with you and says “I love you” there is some vague reality to the statement (especially if the person has the disorder in a lesser form, see last week). To see the psychopathic process, you have to train yourself to pay attention to both a person’s words and to remember that person’s deeds at the same time.
If you do this you will be able to see the disconnect between words and deeds and the psychopathic process. If you begin to see the psychopathic process, it is very important that you not share this observation with the psychopath. He or she will not benefit from your feedback and may even become violent. At the moment you see the process, you must discipline yourself and disconnect. If you have problems with self-discipline you likely need a therapist to help you disentangle from the psychopathic process.
Recovery and discovery are about learning to pay attention. Pay attention to yourself and pay attention to what other people say and do. Most people need help in order to learn the skill of paying attention. That is the kind of help a good therapist can give you.
In the next few weeks we’ll talk more about the psychopathic process. Please feel free to share your experience of being worked or the disconnect between words and deeds.
Katydid~
You are so right about everything in your last post! They WILL use just a grain of truth to sound more credible. I don’t think they lie ALL the time, but even when they tell the truth, it’s used to manipulate. Dr. Steve wrote an article about that here on LF. It’s a year or two old, but still right on the money.
Ha! When you said that your X “redefines words”, you are spot on! When I first met my X I found out he was lying about his age by 5-6 years by doing a people search. We hadn’t even met yet, but he came up with a good lie to explain it. I then told him that if he were ever to lie to me again, I was done. So, in an email even before our first date, he told me that he was going to tell me the etymology of truth on our date. Etymology is the origins of a word. How weird! He never did bring it up, but he was definitely doing the word salad thing.
I know it must be pretty frustrating when you read the emails and you can see how he is manipulating. I was able to speak to a couple of women that my X was “charming” and they said the same thing–super attentive and charming–makes you feel like you have so much in common. And where you say they love to take strong women and break them down—TOTALLY true. After I found mine was lying about his age, he commented that I was willful, and I said that I was. I totally believe that he took that as a challenge based on what followed–he fooled me for some time and would say absolutely anything to manipulate my reality of the situation.
They do teach us things that “no human should need to know”, but we have to make sure that our experience with the Spath isn’t in vain by not getting involved ever again with people of their ilk.
Hopeful6596~
Hopeful:
Redefining words….HAHAHAHAAHa!
Its called spathspeak.
Early on…..spath was trying to take my car. He went into this pity ploy about HIS car was not ‘running’…..in letters and to the judge.
What he really meant was…….the key wasn’t in the ignition at that very moment…..
But portrayed that it was ‘at the shop’ or broken down……
Later he made the mistake to contradict himself…….in court…..and the judge ordered me to CANCEL his car insurance……
Classic!
The car isn’t ‘running’ became just one of the jokes between my friends and I…….
We all ‘got that’.
EB,
Bwah ha ha haaaaa! Spathspeak, indeed! Oh, that is just too flippin’ funny about the car “not running.” I think that’s just another way, in their own demented thinking, where there is just a grain of truth in their lies. Hell, he was right–the car WASN’T running. har har har har! Flippin’ moron.
Ya know, I know that one of the reasons Spaths are attracted to who they are attracted to, is due to certain traits–like empathy. I am hyper-empathetic and it definitely was to my detriment with my X, but sometimes–even now–sometimes I just can’t help but feel sorry for these damaged individuals. But NOW I get what my therapist once told me early on in my sessions with her. She said that some people are just too damaged to ever get it, and I really didn’t quite know what she meant–UNTIL Spath! It was like the flippin’ universe said to me–Behold Spathdom! And NOW I get it. The majority, if not all, of these people are just too damaged to ever see the big picture–not in this lifetime anyway.
Hopeful6596~
Everyone~
I was watching a show today about yet another woman who found out she was married to a Spath, and she was lamenting about how she had wished she had listened to her intuition. It occurred to me that NO MATTER who warns you when you’re emotionally involved or how many times you hear about these situations where the women/men say to trust/listen to your intuition, there will be SO many women who still will not do it. Makes me said and angry. There are so many people out there that are the perfect prey for the Spaths simply BECAUSE they won’t listen to their intuition. Oh man, hindsight!!!
I also made a pact with myself that I will never again warn any woman that my X is involved with–so not worth it. The last one didn’t believe me and actually blocked me on FB. I couldn’t have written a nicer email–not threatening in any way–and I only emailed once–yet she blocked me. i found out later she dumped him, but still, the stress of being “involved” in any way with him, is too stressful. Plus, I cannot save everyone.
Hopeful6596~
Hopeful6596~
Hopeful~
Yep,….this is how they can ‘convince’ themselves they don’t lie. it’s half truths, and even those change with the wind as needed.
This is why documentation is so key…..you can call bullshit on em…..with their own writings.
I have to say…..when I feel the lie or manipulation…..NOW…..I dig my heels in and go into immediate ‘fu%^k with them’ mode…..backspath-counter control……I toy with em…..and then walk away.
Like at a dinner party…..when you sit next to one……that kind of topical encounter…..
I don’t think they expect peeps to fu%$k with em…..
I watch em and I listen to em…..then I pretend to engage over salad….and by entree……they are ready to leave…..because I corner them.
It’s my contribution back to spaths! 🙂
I really could care less if they ‘get it’ or not…..if they got it….they wouldn’t do it…..I know I ain’t gonna change em……so I just mess with them…..push buttons……
I’m nasty like that now! 🙂
EB,
You go with your bad self!! 😀 Careful, though! I gotta say, I know many here on LF were /are married to their Spath, and I gotta say I am so thankful I did not marry him. Plus, he’s such a Casanova, still at age 40, that I don’t think he’ll ever get married unless it’s to appear normal. As a matter of fact, he told me he’d never get married but that he may have “a couple of kids.” Oh God, perish that thought! EB, are you a lawyer? I think I remember reading that in a post a while ago here, or maybe it was just referring to your SLEUTHING abilities. 🙂
Hopeful6596~
YEsss! ErinBrock! Nasty Girl. You are my hero!
I have told my stbx (hopefully soon..)… that I don’t have to “get revenge” for all that he has done, that him being himself will take care of all the revenge anyone needs.
But… I too have learned how to fu*& with him. I know what to say that makes him drop the new honey immediately. Usually though, I don’t. Women who ridicule me as not being “woman” enough for him deserve the same non lethal but non curable STD that he gave me. That may make me evil, but really, every time I’ve tried to warn one of them, they giggle and ridicule me. So be it.
Face it girls, I’m older… and someone else’s insurance is gonna cover that smash job.
EB and Hopeful,
Thanks so much you guys. Your love, caring and warmth shine through. I think I AM getting it, and getting there, and “gettin ‘er done,” as Oxy puts it. But, you cant force it can you? Its a bit like pulling the petals of rose then wondering why it wont open . Its kinda an organic process. so I guess we have to trust the process.
However, I think its way harder to kick your own adult kids to the kerb than a Husband/wife/lover. Its your own flesh.I still have a kind of shadowy depressed feeling that Im “letting them down,’ wheres in reality Ive NEVER let them down, but theyve let ME down for 30 years, BiG time.
I think if my Mum and Dad were still alive theyd say,”never give up on your kids”. Well sorry, Mum and Dad, but I HAVE. love, Mama gem.XX
Thank God for our new adopted adult kids! They give us so much love , hugs, kisses,and appreciation, its like Ive died and gone to heaven when they are around!!.
Geminigirl-It sounds like you have touched the “Nirvana of Indifference”–how I hope to embody that too! Congratulations on your freedom and knowledge. My advice is to move forward with those who truly love you and leave the rest behind with no regrets.
Katy-I feel sorry to the people who can’t see the light of my S/N’s lies, even though they have caught him in false allegations about me (drug use). Spaths will do what ever they can to preserve their supply (I learned that here, thank you LF:). I was blindly that supply at one time, so I can’t do anything but feel badly for those who are now falling prey. It is sad to see because it negatively impacts my relationship with the supply, but I can’t get too close to them now for fear of what they might feed him that he could twist and manipulate to his twisted ends.
Can you imagine exposing spath to their supply? Imagine the hurt we experienced when we discovered the falsehood of our relationship and we only did because it was us or them, they were on the approach to destroy us when we found our strength, strength to solve the mystery of their personality, to witness the demise of our relationship, and to pull the plug on it declaring, “ENOUGH!” This is a discovery the supply has to come to on their own, in their own time. While it is painful to watch, the best we can do is hold a mirror up to it for those we love and hope will find a way to live a healthy life; that mirror will help to deflect the toxins from our own lives so that we don’t get personally involved. Questions like, “Is that okay with you?” “What do you think?” “How do you know?” (the next are borrowed from this blog) “Do you believe him?” “Does that make sense to you?” can help to shine light, plant seeds of doubt and keep those in the know a healthy distance.
Fearless today!
Dear Gem,
Sweetie, yep others do say “but they’re fammmmmmily” yea, well, “family is as family does!” And YES, we CAN “give up on them” because they have shown they WILL NOT change. They don’t want to change. So why on earth would we want to accept that kind of treatment in exchange for the love we offered. We aren’t being “mean to” them, we are simply stepping away from the fray, far enough that they can’t swing at us and land a blow.
We are much better off associating with people who think we are wonderful than with people who can apparently barely stand us at all, aren’t we? Makes sense to me.
I don’t like being around people I don’t like, and people who don’t like me obviously wouldn’t enjoy coming to dinner at my house, so we just WONT do dinner at my house—or your house! We will just you go your way and I’ll go mine—have a nice life, but don’t bother writing!
IN the end, that’s about all it is. Our only grief is over what we thought we wanted/had, but we didn’t have it. Their choice, not ours, but we can and will accept it. NC–“takes the worry out of being close” (as the old deodeorant commercial used to say)