“The motivation (for lying) is particularly baffling in endogenous deceit when the psychopath may appear to have everything he wants yet continues quite predictably to commence the manipulative cycle.” So says Dr. Reid Meloy in The Psychopathic Mind, p121.
“I don’t think they even eat an ice cream cone just for pleasure, I think they do everything for the effect it has, or the image it presents. It isn’t about what is REAL it is about what they can appear to be. To them, I think, if they can get others to believe it, then it becomes “reality” as far as they are concerned.” So says Ox Drover in a comment on this blog.
There is complete agreement about one thing regarding sociopaths, that is lying defines them. While studies show that many people lie daily, the lying behavior of sociopaths differs in both degree and kind from “normal” lying. Sociopaths do not just misrepresent the truth in small ways to spare someone’s feelings, avoid an argument or avoid trouble. Sociopaths misrepresent themselves and this misrepresentation extends to everyone they know. (For more advanced readers, there may not be much of a self there to misrepresent.)
You don’t need a checklist
So today I can tell you with confidence that you don’t need a checklist of symptoms or a forensic expert. If you are astounded by another person’s capacity to lie and misrepresent reality you can be sure you have encountered a sociopath.
I said a few weeks ago that I think Meloy’s book The psychopathic Mind is a great contribution to humanity. In this book, Meloy puts forth the idea that we can identify “psychopaths” by observing what he calls “the psychopathic process.” I searched the book for a precise definition of “the psychopathic process” and couldn’t find one but he implies that psychopathy is defined by the way a person interacts with others and with him/herself. He also says that it is possible to identify a “psychopath” by the way that person makes you feel. If you can look within yourself and monitor your own reactions you can learn to tell when you are face to face with “the psychopathic process.”
It doesn’t “work” on me anymore!
I have learned what it feels like to be “worked” and because I know what that feels like, “it” doesn’t work on me anymore. Sociopaths do not just lie, they work people. Their relationships are an occupation for them and it’s not just a job, it’s an adventure. They will even work when there is no apparent reason to. Why do they do this? They do this because there is nothing else they can do. They have little or no capacity to look within and find an inner compass of values and pleasures. As Ox Drover points out, the only real pleasure they have is their “work.”
Dr. Meloy gives a great example of a psychopath “at work” on page 138 when he discusses a professional who was “worked” by a psychopath. Knowing that he was going to be assigned a certain probation officer, the psychopath asked others who knew her about her interests. On discovering that the woman was interested in metaphysics and the writings of Alfred North Whitehead, the psychopath went and read the writings. He then gained the respect and admiration of the P.O. because he discussed these writings as if he too had a genuine interest in them that predated his knowledge of her.
Meloy says, “He does not just play the role, observing the limits of his character, but lives the part.” People are taken in by the psychopath’s work because in the moment the psychopath really thinks and feels the part. His part is real and yet also a deception.
You know you are being worked when the things you love/enjoy are mirrored in this way. You can tell the difference between this mirroring and real sharing by the extent to which the other person tries to build your enthusiasm and point to the apparent “twin-ship” you share. This mirroring and twin-ship can occur with big things as in the metaphysics example and it can occur with little things as in the ice cream example.
Now if you know what I am talking about, you have been worked; you are likely far along in the recovery process because you know what this feels like. If you have only a vague notion of what I am saying, Dr. Meloy has other words of wisdom for you.
In the psychopathic process there is a “complete disconnect between words and actions.” If you notice that a person’s actions point south and their words point north, you are dealing with a sociopath. To be concrete, if the person says they love you and either doesn’t spend much time with you, or repeatedly harms and stresses you, you are in the middle of a psychopathic process. But remember since the person “lives the part” at the moment he/she is with you and says “I love you” there is some vague reality to the statement (especially if the person has the disorder in a lesser form, see last week). To see the psychopathic process, you have to train yourself to pay attention to both a person’s words and to remember that person’s deeds at the same time.
If you do this you will be able to see the disconnect between words and deeds and the psychopathic process. If you begin to see the psychopathic process, it is very important that you not share this observation with the psychopath. He or she will not benefit from your feedback and may even become violent. At the moment you see the process, you must discipline yourself and disconnect. If you have problems with self-discipline you likely need a therapist to help you disentangle from the psychopathic process.
Recovery and discovery are about learning to pay attention. Pay attention to yourself and pay attention to what other people say and do. Most people need help in order to learn the skill of paying attention. That is the kind of help a good therapist can give you.
In the next few weeks we’ll talk more about the psychopathic process. Please feel free to share your experience of being worked or the disconnect between words and deeds.
I once knew a parent who allowed her brother to live with her and her children to “help him out” although she knew he was a pedophile. For me, that is an easy line not to cross. She “helped” her brother at the expense of her own children’s innocence. In my view her behavior is criminal, she is on the far end of the spectrum of enabling bad behavior, but all we can do to preserve our sanity and peace is to stay away from dangerous, toxic individuals that we were born into as family or those we choose, however misguided, as family. Knowledge is power and it is a gift we must use it to protect ourselves and our children. Lastly, the worse they are the farther away we need to be.
Fearless,
That woman did NOT want to believe her brother was a pedophile no matter what the evidence was. It is called DENIAL. If we DENY it is true, we somehow think that makes it NOT true. We (and others) suffer the consequence of not believing the truth and acting on that belief. That’s life.
While I think her behavior is BAD, mistaken, wrong, stupid, and every other word I can think of—is/was she in any worse denial than we were when we stayed with the psychopath because “we thought he could change” or whatever our excuse at the time was?
Even after my egg donor believed that the Trojan Horse was a SEX OFFENDER he lied to her and said, “Oh, she said she was 18 and I believed her”—I’m not sure if it was the 9 year old, or the 11 year old that he raped who passed herself off as 18! Yea, right! I believe that! But the egg donor did not want to believe he was a predator so she REFUSED TO BELIEVE me and in her own mind “fabricated” my making it all up on my handy dandy computer. (the rap sheet)
People believe whatever is what they WANT to believe and they will hang on to that belief like super glue, refusing to give any worth to evidence to the contrary. That is why we stay with the psychopath—denial. We saw the red flags and refused to give them any weight as evidence. Human nature.
Oxy and Fearless,
Oxy, you hit it on the nose, girl! I cannot stand when people say, “but it’s family.” Really, as I know that many can relate on here, “family” is just a flippin’ WORD. My friends have been far more supportive than my “family” has ever been. My mother is a borderline, naricisstic bIotch, and is manipulative as the day is long. As of this past Thanksgiving, I have cut off all contact with her. People who do not have a dysfunctional family (to this level) just simply do not understand. Then again, some people who do have terrible, abusive dysfunction in their immediate families, still CLEAVE to them because they think they HAVE to. Well, guess what, people? You don’t HAVE to do a flippin’ thing in the name of “family”. In fact, he other side of the coin is that you would think that family WOULDN’T be abusive, manipulative, etc. But dysfunction/pathology is what it does. It doesn’t discriminate. Anyway, you get my gist. hehehe I think I was just ranting! har har har
Hopeful6596~
My mom would always say the same…”family is all you have” and for a long time I bought into it. Until the abuse kept coming from all angles. Niece, nephew, brother, cousins, aunts…mother….talk about crazy. It saddened me greatly that I wanted to find a different family. I didn’t even want to know my ethnic background…I had no interest in learning about Sweden or Norway, sadly. I decided I wanted to be Italian!! I love Italy! But seriously, I’d look for a mother figure in older, wiser, loving women. I hate to say this, my mom just died in Feb and I miss her, but we had a rough time and I grew up with my insecurities etc because of feeling abandoned emotionally, defective at the age of 4. (I really see how I was a great target for spath…and have worked on these character defects for a long time-but I am also very empathetic and giving…something I am reading on the blog here that is common to all of us)
What I say is that these are my relatives, not my family. I thought I’d found my family in x spath’s family…until I realized how sick they were too. I wonder sometimes if I will ever find someone who won’t be abusive or someone I can call family….really my only family is D and S. I’m so thankful for them.
It was hard putting up boundaries with my mother. I think she might have been borderline….not quite sure….but my boundaries were never respected and it was exhausting. Last year, after spending the past five years helping my mom and dad in their various illnesses (I very much wanted to help and be there, not complaining about that at all) I had to put an almost NC on my mom. Her behavior when I was up staying with them was atrocious. She’d pit my brother and me against each other. And when my S was up there for Xmas (I really thought, once again, that we’d have a wonderful xmas all together and it was a nightmare with me leaving early, crying….)she’d talk about me to him…and in front of my D. sick behavior that was unacceptable. But she wouldn’t listen to my suggestions about how to get consistent help while she was going through chemo when her breast ca resurfaced. I had a house that they could have lived in with me…I would work, we could get some nursing help during the week and I could still see my D, etc etc. I told her it was temporary…until we could see how she’d do with chemo and with my father’s alzheimer’s (and her not getting outside help with that) she couldn’t do it all. She refused. I told her we’d close her house up, the neighbors would watch it and they could move back after chemo. But No. So, with a five hour drive to see her she’d call me in crisis. Always. I was working two jobs to make it, having to pay 500/month in child support to x spath who makes 30k/month I kid you not. And I made 2k at that time. So with mom calling during crisis after crisis and me having to cancel a visit with D I finally said no more. My D was my priority and although I felt horrible about my parents illnesses and I wanted to help I could only do so much. my spath brother came around when he realized my mom was dying and the estate was close at hand. I hate to say it but I am finding that to be the truth. So he was there, but also causing chaos and yelling at my mom, abandoning my father ini middle of night. It was a nightmare. Mom calling me to come up and help and get rid of brother…etc. I just said NO! but at the end, I went up to help. She died and everything went crazy. I kick myself because had I stuck to my boundary I wouldn’t not have this crap happening with my brother. It would have been a very different outcome and yet she was dying so I had to go. I struggled with that decision…I talked to trusted friends….it’s such a nightmare when we deal with this kind of chaos. No wonder I was such a push over for my x. NO MORE! I WON’T DO THIS AGAIN!
Just 2 weeks since I got to this site. What a difference it has made in my life. I was suicidal when I stumbled onto the site. Holed up, not going out, barely making it, pretending I was doing ok. But reading about the coping….can’t think of the term right now but under extreme stress we end up not coping any more but detaching and I was reading or watching tv for hours….I couldn’t move forward any more. I had had too much happen. I was alone. No support. I wasn’t eating well, no exercise, not working to market my new practice. I knew I needed to go back on my antidepressants but i just couldn’t get up and out. I followed advice of you all here and I thank you. Last Monday I made a decision. I was not going to fail. I was not going to let x spath destroy me as he told me he would. He had been doing a good job. I kept saying he got me fired, he got me kicked out of a house I was renting (he did call them both and lied to them but doesn’t matter at this moment any more). what matters now is WHAT I do. It’s my decision how I look to my future. I can give up and throw in the towel. Or I can begin to move forward. I was reading a book last night about failing forward and it talks a lot about taking responsibility…so I’ve looked at everything that has happened and written down where I have been responsible. There have been many external things that I couldn’t control, like x spath who has systematically done a lot of horrible things…but the bottom line is I control what I do from here on out. I have to stop letting him have control over me. Ok, so he’s been able to get the judge to think I am an unfit mother and needs supervised visits with my 9 year old D (I know this is untrue but again, this is something I can’t control right now) so instead of crying and freaking out and trying to make everyone believe I am NOT what he says I am I just do what I can. So, as of last week I made changes. I set up schedule for call D so we don’t play phone tag. I am also documenting everything diligently as I go on from here, too. For the future when she is back with me. I am living in a place that is less oppressive. I am eating really healthily…balanced, fresh, organic. I am walking. and lifting weights. I cleaned out a part of my office I have been avoiding. I went to dr and got antideperssants, and refill of my hormones which I also stopped taking. Sweating and turning beet red is not fun. I was able to get free contacts. I sent my D a big box of fun stuff, have talked to her four times, documented when I called and they didn’t have her call back. and my next step is to focus on marketing my practice. I need money so i can retain attorneys for both D and my father….but D first.
So, amazing what can happen in a week. I am less depressed and more focused. My attitude changed…I have never been one to throw in the towel. I have always had a way to be resilient and yet I almost let him beat me. The best ‘revenge’ is living well! I don’t even want revenge. I don’t want to waste my energy on him. I am getting closer to the indifference OxDrover talked about. its a much better place.
So, thank you, LF! I read and get inspired by your stories and strength. Thankfully you are here because these last 12 years would not have made sense to me still. Five years post divorce and more depressed than I ever imagined…..It is all in attitude I have come to believe. The book by John Maxwell (I think it’s John) called something like Failing Forward is really great. I recommend it. It helped me realize my part in things and then to remember that what I did and how I thought were the things I can control. So, thanks everyone!
Dear China WOMAN!!!
Your above post almost made me cry for JOY!!!! I am so glad for you that you have reached down into the bottom of your spirit and pulled out the bravery and the moxey to get up off the floor and pull yourself out of this hole!
So many times when they beat us down we just get to where we don’t even try to get up! I’ve been there and I know there are others here who have alsoo been in the BOTTOM that hole so DEEP that looking up the hole at the top looks like a fire fly! It takes courage of soul to get up and get moving.
My favorite book and one that helped me get up and get moving is the book “Man’s Search for Meaning” written by Dr. Viktor Frankl, on the emotional effects he experienced and witnessed in his years in the Nazi PRISON CAMPS. Believe me it was a humbing experience to read that book, but also an EMPOWERING ONE!
He talked about how some people would cower in the bottom of the despair and others would keep on. After they were rescued, some became bitter and some not….GREAT book and one that made me see that I am the one who controls what I do….do I quit? do I fight? do I survive?
I am so happy for you, and proud of you. Don’t be discouraged when you slip and fall and skin your knees, we will be here to call to you to encourage you to get up!!! I know now that NOTHING is going to defeat you—nothing CAN defeat you!!! Not even the psychopath!!!! TOWANDA!!!! and always my prayers!!! (((Hugs))))
ChinaWOMAN!
Girl….you’ve made your own choices……and look where your heading!!!! Good going girl!!!!
You are empowered……no keep building on this!
Every step of the way…..take a mental snapshot in your mind of how you feel……you can always call back on that mental ‘photo album’ and know things can be different…..when you are down.
I am so pleased you are finding the strength……I am also very pleased you are connecting with D……
Keep in mind…..it’s a long journey….and you need the strength and stamina to go the distance.
You are turning a corner……keep it up girlfriend…..keep it up!
Education = Power!!!!!
XXOO
EB
Thanks so much OxD and EB!
Wow, what a nice response. I was just writing, releasing and trying to describe what I felt when I got here and what a huge difference being here at LF has made. Thank you.
I have read Victor Frankyl’s book. I read it about 2 1/2 years ago when up helping my mom with my dad. Someone suggested it as I was very very depressed then. I remember wishing it had empowered me but I was too full of self pity I think….but it is an incredible book. Incredible. I may read it again as I know I’d have a different perspective.
Being a part of this group, even though in cyberspace, feels like home. It is the most support I have probably had in 15 years. I really can’t thank you enough for giving of yourself like you do. You have given me the courage and strength, ideas, advice, kick in the pants to do what I need to do. I know I will have down moments again and again and I like the snapshot idea. I was thinking just that…what can I do to remember this moment, this feeling of courage and kick his ass survival? I don’t feel like journaling….sick of it actually. How long can you access archived blogs? a couple of years? It would be kinda cool to reread this in 1 year….
China WOMAN! Kindred Spirit!
Know that in any times of despair, there is a place where you are understood, where you can ask ANY question and you can receive caring in return.
Your post shows a story individual to you, but the monster is the same as all of ours. You are clearly a wise woman – you are SO far ahead of me when I decided to take charge. One of my best moments was that feeling of freedom when I got away from the control of others, not just my my stbx spath, but also his family and cronies. To be alone and starting anew in a city thousands of miles from my home was lonely for me, but ultimately one of the things that saved me. Get yourself FREE asap and NEVER let someone else EVER have control of you, your life, or your life decisions ever again.
Family is NOT all you have (words to guilt you into submitting to control of tyrants??). Clearly there is more.
I started this post about despair ONLY b/c I know the process makes you doubt yourself. I want you to know that process is NORMAL but also know that beyond those agonizing moments you will find joy, peace, contentment, love, accomplishment, friendships, connection, etc etc etc.
Embrace your path forward! TOWANDA! (to borrow OxDrover’s word)
The “Towanda” is from the movie Fried Green Tomatoes, and someone (cant remember who) started using it as the BATTLE CRY for us survivors and it just stuck!
Glad you are feeling empowered Chinagirl, and just hang on! It is a bumpy ride but one in which you still row the boat! (((Hugs))))
Did anyone see the video that was going around the news circuits showing a girl in a red hoodie throwing brand new puppies into a river? You could actually see the smile on her face as she did it. Apparently the police have found her, but the worst she’ll get is a fine. Sociopath right there, my lovefraud peeps. To be honest, I was f***ing incensed when I saw the video. I wanted to shoot her myself. Strong statement, maybe. But it doesn’t make it less true. That’s a flippin’ murderer waitin’ to happen. Poor little puppies. I can’t get the image out of my mind. 🙁
Hopeful6596