“The motivation (for lying) is particularly baffling in endogenous deceit when the psychopath may appear to have everything he wants yet continues quite predictably to commence the manipulative cycle.” So says Dr. Reid Meloy in The Psychopathic Mind, p121.
“I don’t think they even eat an ice cream cone just for pleasure, I think they do everything for the effect it has, or the image it presents. It isn’t about what is REAL it is about what they can appear to be. To them, I think, if they can get others to believe it, then it becomes “reality” as far as they are concerned.” So says Ox Drover in a comment on this blog.
There is complete agreement about one thing regarding sociopaths, that is lying defines them. While studies show that many people lie daily, the lying behavior of sociopaths differs in both degree and kind from “normal” lying. Sociopaths do not just misrepresent the truth in small ways to spare someone’s feelings, avoid an argument or avoid trouble. Sociopaths misrepresent themselves and this misrepresentation extends to everyone they know. (For more advanced readers, there may not be much of a self there to misrepresent.)
You don’t need a checklist
So today I can tell you with confidence that you don’t need a checklist of symptoms or a forensic expert. If you are astounded by another person’s capacity to lie and misrepresent reality you can be sure you have encountered a sociopath.
I said a few weeks ago that I think Meloy’s book The psychopathic Mind is a great contribution to humanity. In this book, Meloy puts forth the idea that we can identify “psychopaths” by observing what he calls “the psychopathic process.” I searched the book for a precise definition of “the psychopathic process” and couldn’t find one but he implies that psychopathy is defined by the way a person interacts with others and with him/herself. He also says that it is possible to identify a “psychopath” by the way that person makes you feel. If you can look within yourself and monitor your own reactions you can learn to tell when you are face to face with “the psychopathic process.”
It doesn’t “work” on me anymore!
I have learned what it feels like to be “worked” and because I know what that feels like, “it” doesn’t work on me anymore. Sociopaths do not just lie, they work people. Their relationships are an occupation for them and it’s not just a job, it’s an adventure. They will even work when there is no apparent reason to. Why do they do this? They do this because there is nothing else they can do. They have little or no capacity to look within and find an inner compass of values and pleasures. As Ox Drover points out, the only real pleasure they have is their “work.”
Dr. Meloy gives a great example of a psychopath “at work” on page 138 when he discusses a professional who was “worked” by a psychopath. Knowing that he was going to be assigned a certain probation officer, the psychopath asked others who knew her about her interests. On discovering that the woman was interested in metaphysics and the writings of Alfred North Whitehead, the psychopath went and read the writings. He then gained the respect and admiration of the P.O. because he discussed these writings as if he too had a genuine interest in them that predated his knowledge of her.
Meloy says, “He does not just play the role, observing the limits of his character, but lives the part.” People are taken in by the psychopath’s work because in the moment the psychopath really thinks and feels the part. His part is real and yet also a deception.
You know you are being worked when the things you love/enjoy are mirrored in this way. You can tell the difference between this mirroring and real sharing by the extent to which the other person tries to build your enthusiasm and point to the apparent “twin-ship” you share. This mirroring and twin-ship can occur with big things as in the metaphysics example and it can occur with little things as in the ice cream example.
Now if you know what I am talking about, you have been worked; you are likely far along in the recovery process because you know what this feels like. If you have only a vague notion of what I am saying, Dr. Meloy has other words of wisdom for you.
In the psychopathic process there is a “complete disconnect between words and actions.” If you notice that a person’s actions point south and their words point north, you are dealing with a sociopath. To be concrete, if the person says they love you and either doesn’t spend much time with you, or repeatedly harms and stresses you, you are in the middle of a psychopathic process. But remember since the person “lives the part” at the moment he/she is with you and says “I love you” there is some vague reality to the statement (especially if the person has the disorder in a lesser form, see last week). To see the psychopathic process, you have to train yourself to pay attention to both a person’s words and to remember that person’s deeds at the same time.
If you do this you will be able to see the disconnect between words and deeds and the psychopathic process. If you begin to see the psychopathic process, it is very important that you not share this observation with the psychopath. He or she will not benefit from your feedback and may even become violent. At the moment you see the process, you must discipline yourself and disconnect. If you have problems with self-discipline you likely need a therapist to help you disentangle from the psychopathic process.
Recovery and discovery are about learning to pay attention. Pay attention to yourself and pay attention to what other people say and do. Most people need help in order to learn the skill of paying attention. That is the kind of help a good therapist can give you.
In the next few weeks we’ll talk more about the psychopathic process. Please feel free to share your experience of being worked or the disconnect between words and deeds.
ChinaGirl,
You are doing great! Just keep blogging and listening to–I’ll call them the Doyennes of LoveFraud—Oxy, EB, Hens, Bluejay, Pollyanna, OneStep,and a few others that i can’t think of at the moment. They take good care of the newbies that come to LF, including myself. We come feeling so confused and broken from our spathisodes with the Spaths, and here we find validation, support, and healing. Whatever you do, don’t beat yourself up too much or blame yourself ’cause Oxy will smack you over the noggin’ with the cyber skillet! 😀
You are right that many of us are hyper-empathetic and it does leave us vulnerable to exploitive personalities. They test us very soon after contact to determine the level of compassion and empathy we have. I know mine did that too, and all throughout the relationship, and even after. But, it’s so important to learn boundaries and to reserve our compassion and good heartedness for people that actually deserve it. You’ll get there.
Hopeful6596~
Dear Hopeful!
I can understand your rage at that girl who threw the pups into the water…some woman claims that she rescued them and there was a picture of her on the internet so maybe they were saved.
When I was about 12 I literally jumped on the back of a man who was beating a horse that had fallen on slick street at a parade and I bit him on the back of the neck enough to cause bleeding. (I got in trouble for that, but he did stop hitting the horse) I don’t like seeing animals made to suffer needlessly, or anything for that matter.
You are definitely right, and Donna has provided us with a wonderful forum here in wich we can all support each other in our recovery. It is sort of like the way surgery is taught in medical school. “See one, do one, teach one.” We come here injured and in pain, and we start seeing we are not alone, and then we reach out to comfort the next newbie that comes along. We pay back the comfort and support we have given to the next people needing comfort and support while they heal.
Having the psychopathic experience has not been totally negative for a lot of us, we have learned, we have strengthened and grown–to better, stronger and STILL compassionate and empathetic, just WISER about how we use our empathy and our compassion. Not so likely to be hornswaggled by a psychopath again!
China Girl,
Darling you are DOING GREAT!!!! I know EXACTLY where you have been, as my ex and both my daughters are spaths,and I had years and years of HELLon earth, before I took my courage in both hands and left all 3 of them in 1982. Took nothing with me.Rented a tiny furnished flat, and survived. God looked after me. I met my 2nd darling Husband mid 1983,and we got married in 84.
However, it wasnt till June last year, when I found Lovefraud, that the scales started to literally fall from my eyes.I learned about gaslighting, mirroring, projection,{when the spath projects his own faults onto you and makes YOU the baddie and the scapegoat.}I have battled, and still am battling thru depression, denial, sadness, bargaining,disbelief, rage ,anger,fear,and am now on my way to my goal of “The Nirvana of Indifference”. I DONT want to be a bitter person. I dont want to hate them. I just want, now, to stay the F–k away from them, as they are severelyTOXIC to me, and I know they dont love me. How can they, when they dont even love themselves? Im still battling grief at being denied seeing my other spath Ds 3 kids,-never been a llowed to see them, and they are now 14, 11, and 2 years old. God knows what lies shes told them about their second evil Granny, the one theyr not allowed to meet!
But I have to accept it, not a darn thing I can do about it.
I can see now that my Mother, though I adored her, was a Narcissist, severely depressed, very manipulative, expert at pitting people against each other,{she did this to my 2 brothers,their whole childhood, and even as adults. No wonder they are both so screwed up, anal, in denial, self righteous, chauvinists. They each have an emotional age of about 5 yrs.One is 69, they other is 67.}
Mums funeral was a nightmare, just like the one China girl describes. I see now that Mum set me up fora lifetime of vulnerability to spaths, I had no boundaries.
Both my spath daughtes are gold plated Biatches,-my life is so much better without them in it. I am so blessed with my new adult “kids” from Iran, who are so loving to us, and so appreciative.Family is not blood, but people who love you BACK!As Oxy,{one of my heroes!} once said,
“Blood may be thicker that water, but abuse is thicker than blood!!” RIGHT ON!!We are all on our way, and were doin OK!! A huge TOWANDA to us all! However beaten down we are or have been, we are so much better off than the spaths,-their ultimate destination is Hell, either on earth or after this life.They make their own hell.
Much Love, Mama gem.
Thank you so much for all the suppport, encouragement, love….I so appreciate it. I am overwhelmed with emotions that you would all care so much and take the time to express your feelings, relate to mine, tell your stories over and over. Thank you.
I realized that I need to get on the path of forgiveness…its for me, not him. I need to release this bad aura around me. I have been mired in it for five years now. I feel like I am waking up, the fog is lifting and I am almost shocked at the past five years. It feels incredible. I feel almost like an adult again. Or maybe for the first time! LOL
I also realize that I need to take my experiences these past 12 years and look at how they benefitted me instead of how pissed and hurt and sad I am. I have lost so much, as we all have. i have lost friends-some from being sick of hearing me whine. and stay stuck. I kept thinking “but you don’t get it! I don’t deserve this!” and that did nothing for me. I can see now how I have benefitted…in that I can now set boundaries with people and I can say no. I can speak my mind and still be kind and empathic but I won’t take on others projected crap. The other part that is beneficial from my experiences is how I might be able to help others in the future. As we know not many really get this..especially attorneys, therapists and others in the community to whom we turn when feeling so out of control – so I hope to be able to use my experience in a way that it benefits others.
thank you again, for all your comments. I take everything to heart, listen and try to learn!
I send hugs and love…..
OMG….GREAT VISUAL OXY….
Going Rambo on the parade man……
Biting him on the neck…..our very own parade vampiress………
EB – thanks for getting it yesterday. i still have one more of the loved to connect with.
i have been shying away for a multitude of reasons – one is loss. too many people are dying/ falling apart. and i am not good with it since the ppath.
and that sweat little dog…such a love. his lesser brother continues on, sad and a bit stupid (i call him the homer simpson of doxies, and it fits)
i extended the car rental by another day and did just about everything i needed too. need a day of rest now! especially after being in that old cabin with all its funkiness and the dozen cats…gonna be feeling that one for a few days. these sensitivities are so isolating. it gets me so down – i try new things, try to reach for what i want, and i am constantly smacked down with new triggers and exposrues. nowhere is safe anymore. last few weeks have been heavy. feeling kinda low with it all. hard to be hopeful. off the bed now. night night.
Dear EB,
Yea, I can remember that day well. A horse can NOT get up if it’s front legs are under it and it’s back legs are up, it must get up from the front. A cow gets up the opposite way. The man had pushed the horse out of the back of a pick up onto slickk street and it fell to it’s knees and he kept hitting it to try to make it get up. If he had just let it lie down properly it could have then gotten up just by encouraging it to do so and maybe pulling on the halter or reins.
I jumped on his back like a mad cat and just chowed down! My friend carmon was with me that day and we both got into trouble, she was in the mix, but I was the one who drew blood! LOL Later that day I offered her a bite of my hamburger and she about bit my finger off. I think she would have take a PLUG out, not just drawn blood. Glad it gave you a laugh.
I’ve done my share of whaling on critters but never when it wasn’t something that they knew what they were being whaled on for! Not just because they couldn’t do what I wanted or were scared or protecting themselves. But you let a gentle (one who knows better) horse try to bite or kick and he’s gonna wish he belonged to someone besides me! In fact, they won’t belong to me longer than it takes to go get someone to help me turn them into dog food. Mean or viscious stock is NOT an option for old women! Big critters can hurt you by accident, but you sure don’t want one that is TRYING to hurt you out of spite. I wish we could take care of psychpaths like you can an animal that is viscious—but there’s no open season on psychopaths, darn it!
Unfortunately, training isn’t always an option with either an outlaw animal or with what passes for a “human,” but is actually an alien in disguise (a P) Sometimes though you have people who don’t recognize that there are just some critters (4-legged or 2-legged) that can’t be rehabilitated, and in the case of the critters, it isn’t worth trying to feed them. Not sure it is in the case of the Ps either, but for now, I’ll opt for “life without” parole.
I think the best way to recognize a sociopath is to ask for forgiveness. They rarely grant it.
JohnZane-no kidding! My x spath, a few years ago, sent me an email saying something about he wanted to forgive me…the email was weirdly cryptic and complicated (another smoke and mirrors?) and then he ended it saying something like he’d get back to me….then nothing. ever again about it…and his behavior never changed towards me. Evil eyes, angry every time he saw me etc. I do not think he has any idea what forgiveness means and he probably thought it was a good thing to say….like I said, he went to therapy to learn the lingo, not to search within…
GeminiGirl,
Just a note to say I appreciate you sharing your story and how you found LF . I am new to this site as well. Sometimes I feel ridiculous when issues still come up for me. I feel like I should be over it by now. Obviously I found LF for a reason and I was looking for a clearer understanding as to why these things still linger in my mind. It doesnt help that I am always trying to make sense of things and crazy just doesnt make sense. I left the toxic person 6 years ago, of course that was not the end of the pain- its wild how it just hangs on. I have not had any contact with him in 3 years and suspect I should not hear from him considering he is in jail awaiting trial for murder. However, you sharing a bit of your experience helps me and I bet many others as well – Thanks 🙂
Also ,thats a great quote shared by Oxy “Blood may be thicker that water, but abuse is thicker than blood!!” I like that.