“How did he really feel?” and “What did he want from me?” are two questions that often haunt victims of sociopaths. The reason we are haunted by these questions varies but often stems from the habit of over-focusing on the sociopath instead of ourselves. That being said, victims also have a healthy ”˜need to know’ that can help with recovery and healing.
I struggled with these questions in my own healing. I remain baffled by my observations of enjoyment of affection on the part of sociopaths. Early on, I told my own therapist that I had come to the conclusion that sociopaths exploit those close to them to the point of death, then, cry at the funeral. At the moment the tears are shed, I believe they do represent a grief of sorts. The feelings of loss experienced by sociopaths are however, short lived. Victims also have to beware because, although sociopaths are said to be incapable of feelings for those in their lives, they do become obsessed with them. Psychologists have not yet explained this obsession. If they don’t attach, why are they obsessed? Those who have read my other entries know that I believe that sociopaths do attach. It is what they do with attachments that is disordered.
How did he really feel?
In response to the picture of a sociopath crying at his victim’s funeral, my therapist said, “He feels what he tells himself he feels.” To help you understand what my therapist meant, I will explain what is known about how people usually experience feelings.
There are two components to feelings. The first is a physical sensation. When we experience a feeling we feel something in our bodies in relationship to that feeling. Think about loving someone close to you and sense how your body feels. Is it warmth in your heart? That is usually what people report.
There is much evidence that these physical sensations are disordered in sociopaths. Sociopaths do not generally experience the physical and hormonal changes that go along with feeling emotion. If they do experience them, it is to a lesser degree. Physical responses are blunted.
The second component of feelings is called attribution. Attribution is a cognitive process. When I feel that warmth in my heart as I see my children, I attribute the sensation to my love for them. Thus the physical sensation alone does not make emotion. Emotion is physical sensations and our interpretations of these sensations. There is also evidence that the parts of the brain responsible for attribution do not function properly in sociopaths.
There is one emotion that many sociopaths experience in a not so disordered way. This emotion is anger. Sociopaths do have blunted physical responses to anger. Despite this blunted responsiveness, they seem aware of angry feelings and make correct attributions about what makes them angry. Again, science has not even addressed, much less explained this observation.
Since the physical sensations and attributions that allow for the experience of emotion are disordered in sociopaths, their inner world is very different. They are left to make sense of themselves and others without the tools most of us use. Other parts of the brain fill in the missing processes. The person who is credited with first describing sociopathy in depth is Hervey Cleckley. He proposed that sociopaths are at least of average if not above average verbal intelligence. This makes sense because they have to use their verbal intelligence to make up for their lack of emotions. They do indeed feel what they tell themselves they feel. Scientists say they mimic other people’s emotions, yet again there is no real proof of this.
What did he want from me?
This question is easy to answer intellectually, but very hard for victims to accept emotionally. There are three pleasures we get from our love relationships. The first is pleasure in affection. The second is sexual pleasure. The third is pleasure associated with dominance and control. Sociopaths experience sex and dominance as enormously more pleasurable than affection. Therefore, they are in relationships to get sex and power, pure and simple.
If you love deeply and feel affection for others, you cannot fathom the inner world of an emotionally disordered person whose primary pleasures are sex and power. To understand another’s world you have to imagine yourself experiencing what the other experiences. You can’t do this with a sociopath.
Louise Gallagher said in her post The six steps of healing from a psychopath that the first step is acceptance. We have to accept that we can only know in part how sociopaths really feel and what they want from us. We can understand intellectually, but never emotionally.
Louise, we do sound like kindred spirits which is why jerks like these love us. In re-reading what I think may be the most succinct and accurate article I’ve read on spaths, etc., I can very well see what I believe happened in my case and probably in most others as well. Importantly, thinking analyzing “them” is not helpful. They are out there doing whatever it is they do (I guess mine is w/his wife and cheating on the side…who knows? I wish he was institutionalized and off the streets) and we sit trying to figure them out when that is not possible. If you had him sitting across from you at dinner, he would lie, lie, lie to you (if he really is an spath) and you’d prob buy it. Because I’m obsessive, extreme, addictive personality, excessive, whatever you want to call it, I am getting to the pt where I wouldn’t believe ONE thing that came out of my jerk’s mouth. Nothing. True or not. There is no gray area here for me. So, at this pt, logic tells me, and it is moving down to my gut, there is no reason to see or communicate with him because he’s just going to lie, twist and speak with forked tongue. No thanks.
Sex with him? Like I said, nope, didn’t trust him enough. Your ‘path sounds more like a control and power junky. They wield their illness and use their lack of compassion to scr*w anything that walks mentally, physically and emotionally.
They throw crumbs and the willing, like you and I, live off that. We make excuses for their inexcusable behavior, like not responding to emails or lying. We tell ourselves they have jobs they have to keep, family issues, marital issues, and we have to cut them slack. I used to send mine the nicest emails about how I cared about him and his family and only wished the best for them, blah, blah, blah and he would just ignore it! Sometimes he’d send me a note of the blue that would say something like, “I just finished the best hike in the woods in the dark, no flashlight.” 10:00 at night! When I’d respond and ask questions about it, NO RESPONSE. This happened repeatedly. And I can’t believe I was so under his spell, I allowed it. But it was that kind of stuff that kept me from even considering the consequences of sleeping with him. I wanted to and he “said” he wanted me to…for all I know he could be impotent! I’ve always been that way about sex, though, so it wasn’t just him. Never wanted to be that intimate with anyone I didn’t feel really cared about me. Too emotionally driven and for me sex is part of a relationship. No broom closets for me and I think that’s prob what this guy wanted from me. But again, as the article states, no one knows what they really want because they aren’t in touch with it themselves.
When she mentions how they stare at you and why….well that blew me away. He used to do that quite a bit. It was like he was staring thru me when I talked. He wasn’t listening and never responded to me during those times, even if it was very important to me. I made an excuse for him every time he did that…like he has so much on his mind. I so wish I had said, “Hey, there bud, I listen to your problems and issues and crap, and you have NO response to me?” Hindsight.
Hey, I didn’t want to rock the boat. I liked his attention, even tho it was so ragged and lacking in substance and caring.
He only wanted to talk about things he was interested in.
I couldn’t have sex with that. I’m very glad it didn’t come to that because I would just feel too guilty.
Being single, I understand why you slept with the guy and I understand why you wish you hadn’t. I just respect you so much for the intelligent decision to leave.
Eventually this too shall pass. I know this sounds trite, but when and if you meet an upstanding, caring guy that loves being with you and vice versa, you will forget this jerkweed. He is a loser and like Ox said, it’s a game for him. He doesn’t care how you feel, only how *he* feels.
I almost cried with you when you were describing his behavior and when you said you felt triggered yourself, I can easily understand why. That was so poignant. I feel your pain. And these uber-jerks hone right into people who are feeling and compassionate. But keep reading the article, really, because it says it all.
To answer your question, my office is about 40 people in size. He was there about 2 1/2 yrs before they dumped his a. I so wish I could find out for sure what happened. He told me a little about it before it happened but with him, believing was always a crap shoot.
I will tell you, I am starting to look at the situation and actually feel shocked that I allowed him in my life. The first time he hit on me, I knew he was crazy and I should have reported him immediately. I do not know why I didn’t. I guess I hoped he’d become a loving friend, and at the stage of life I’m in, I was going to go for it. Like you said, he did seem so into me, if only in spurts, but it seemed so real and so karmaic. He would even send me emails that would state some coincidence or similarity that we had, such as, “….so your drive up to Wherever when you want to think and reflect? I used to go up there every week to do just that. Hmmmmmmmmmmm.”
Of course, the “Hmmmmmmmmm” was the hook…telling me that he was thinking along the soulmate/karmaic route.
And the look – the day I caught him staring with his hand on his chin…..I thought, “OMG, this guy has a thing for me!”
You and I are so much alike, Louise….”exhilarating and electrifying” – I felt and used those same terms about him.
Keep reading the article tho, and know that you did the right thing leaving. You are strong. I so hope you meet someone who deserves you.
Sorry, I left out that the article I’m talking about is the one that we are supposedly commenting on!! I really think it’s good and says it all. Bye
still reeling:
Thank you so much for your post. Wow, we really resonate with one another, don’t we??
Funny you say not trusting him enough is what made you not have sex with him. That really made me question myself…what is wrong with me that I did have sex with him when I DIDN’T trust him?? I knew deep down he was pulling all kind of shenanigans yet I fell into bed with him. SIGH. I have to say though he was VERY convincing and charming…I didn’t do anything that many other women had done…fall for his crap. Unbelievable. Oh, I also wanted to make it clear that when he was keeping me on the line after I left my job (obviously just to keep me quiet), there was NO sex at that point. He would text me all these sexually charged messages and then nothing…he was only playing with me. You said mine sounded like a control junky…yep, BIG time. Total control. He had control even when I THOUGHT I had control.
I can’t believe it…I would do the exact same thing…send him letters professing my love for him and wishing the best for him and his family and nothing. Same thing! Well, think about it…how can they respond? What were they going to say to all those kind words? I think it made mine feel like shit. I think he was laughing on the outside, but feeling the lowlife guilt on the inside. Same thing too with mine…he would text me and say things and then when I would respond? He’d disappear…just not reply to the texts. That’s the MO of a married man I guess. THEY control the situation.
When you talked about him maybe being impotent…wow, that hit me, too. You know…I think mine MIGHT be. He never had any trouble when we were together, but we were together for a short time and I know for a fact he had taken Cialis the first night we were together because the way he was performing was super human; machine like. There is no way a man in his 40s would have done that without some help. But at the time, I didn’t realize it…it took me months to figure it out. I wouldn’t be surprised if mine was impotent. It kind of makes sense…power hungry, sex seeking man who can’t even get it up! Hmmmmmm. I did know that he masturbated a lot. That’s easier than being intimate with someone.
Yeah, if I had been married, I’m sure I wouldn’t have had sex with him, but…oh, well…I can’t turn back time. And oh, the STARE. I NEVER saw a stare on anyone else in my whole life like him…never. That should have been my tip off something wasn’t right! It was blank and soul less. Wow, this is freaking me out. At the time, I thought it was so sexual. He is a mess.
Thank you so very much for telling me you respect my decision to leave. It wasn’t easy and even after almost two years, I question whether I did the right thing. I think he saw it as me being a quitter, but I don’t care. Why should I care what he thinks? I see it as quite the opposite…it took more courage to leave than to stay.
You work in a very small office. I worked in a huge, well known company. It’s his playground. He’s been there 20 years; a long time. I’m not sure they would do something to him even if found out. He is so charming and lies so much, he would probably lie himself out of it even with all the evidence staring them right in the face. Plus, he is pretty brilliant and brings a lot to his area; I think they see him as too valuable to let go. And he knows it.
Exact same thing with me…I have no idea why I let him in. UGGHHHH. I also should have said something to someone as he was so much higher than me in position…he is not allowed to do that; it’s very unethical PLUS he was married! But I and everyone else never did anything about it. Everyone is too afraid for their job. That’s why when I left and had nothing to lose, he was really afraid. He kept up the con for a long time until he THOUGHT he was safe. Hmmmm, he may not be safe.
That is so weird you used the same terms to describe how you felt when with him! I never hear too many people using “exhilarating and electrified or electrifying”…how weird is that??? I would swear this was the same guy, but I know it’s not, yet we had the exact same feelings around them.
I AM strong and always have been. That’s why it so upsets me that he has reduced me to what I am; where I am.
I think that’s it for now. Keep writing so we can compare more notes. Hugs to you.
Louise,
I read a post that you had written under another thread and now can’t find it.
I can’t quote your words because I can’t find the post but it was something that you said that you thought that you eventually would heal but that you never would be the same person again.
Louise that is profoundly true. You will never be the same person again. But it doesn’t have to be a bad thing. Not really.
I think that when we have any “life altering” experience in life….Whatever that life altering experience may be….It changes us.
And it isn’t as if we were not “good” people before the experience….But once something happens in OUR OWN experience, we live it, we survive it…It can’t help but change who we are.
I know for sure that I am a different person than I was in my 30’s! (I am in my 50’s) Just “regular” life experience taught me different perspective.
But the few life altering experiences in my life actually had HUGE impact on who I was and who I am now.
Occasionally I reflect on some of these changes of who I am now….And sometimes I even would prefer to be who I was back then…But once you know SOMETHING, once you have been through something, you can’t go back.
True story: By nature I am a homebody. Home always was my safe place. My comfort zone. Many years ago in the middle of the night (approx. 2;30 am) I awoke in a panic to a very LOUD crash INCHES from the head of my bed. Someone had broken my bedroom window. I jumped out of bed in a flash & dialed 911 as I ran out of the bedroom. My heart was pounding so fast. It was terrifying to wake up to something like that.
It seemed like forever before the cop finally came. The “intruder” never came into the house but of course I didn’t know this because I didn’t go back into the bedroom. I was waiting, heart pounding, for whatever was going to happen.
The moral of this story is that although this was just a scary experience…..For me the impact was tremendous.
I lost forever the illusion that my house is a safe place. I found out that although we have several on duty cops during the DAY for traffic incidents and such we have ONE on duty cop in the middle of the night. (THIS information I didn’t need to know) Cop was on another call, so there was a short delay in him arriving to my house!
Although I had 2 dogs neither one barked or woke up during the loud crash of glass breaking. They both woke up and barked when the police car parked in the driveway!
Even though no one was hurt…The intruder never entered my home…I know what I know NOW. 1) If intruder had entered I would have been in big trouble. 2) The cop took to long to get here. 3) NO “watch dogs” live here. 4) I was in panic mode.
Although this isn’t on my list as one of my life altering experiences….It certainly has changed me forever…..It is one of those things that I can’t go back. Can never feel that false sense of safety that I had before.
Maybe I didn’t do enough work on myself after that experience. Because I don’t like the anxiety residue that it has left behind.
However I have found that when I do the work on myself after what I consider my life altering experiences…..The changes in myself can be better changes.
You are doing the work Louise…..Progress not perfection. Day by day, you are getting better. Hopefully we will all learn to embrace who we are now….the changes in ourselves.
Witty, you posted about that before and I thought you had come to the conclusion that it was your son breaking the window.
Since the dogs didn’t bark, it must’ve been someone they knew, right? Was your son in his bedroom at that time?
Maybe I misunderstood the story.
witsend:
Thank you for your post and explaining what happened to you. That would have scared me to death!
I do understand and we are different after the healing. We are not the same person, but usually we are better. Or in some ways we may be worse. I know in my case so far…in some ways I am better than before and some ways I am not, but both can be gifts actually.
I am doing the work and lots of it…haha! Geez. This healing stuff is brutal and hard. Hugs to you.
Witsend….I echo what Louise and Skylar have said. I can completely validate the fear as being 100% REAL. Once I began to peel back the onion layers of the exspath and started getting to that rotten, stinking core, I was terrified of every bump against the house, every flicker of the lights, every vehicle that drove by, and so forth. That you are experiencing actual acts of vandalism, the fear (for ME) would only be compounded.
You’re an example of the hard work, Witsend. Thanks for your courage. It gives me something to hold onto.
Skylar,
Lol….No you must have misunderstood. My son was only about 9 years old at the time this happened! He also SLEPT throught the entire thing. Right along with the dogs.
Several months later they did catch who did this as he admitted to doing this along with other small burglaries & defacing property etc in the small town where I live. This kid was a teenager he was 16 or 17 at the time.
I have NO idea why my dogs didn’t bark?
They always bark if someone pulls in the driveway. That also includes if I MYSELF pull in the driveway.
So the kid didn’t arrive by car…Lol. Breaking a window evidentally wasn’t a big deal to them??
I used to wonder what they would have done if he came in through the window? Something? Nothing? I will never know for sure.
But I would like to think that if someone came into the house that they would have reacted to THAT.
Truthspeak,
Well as I peeled back the layers (of myself) of the above story and how I reacted I was really disappointed in myself.
I was after all the only “adult” in the house….
And I have to say I kind of FROZE in the fear. After dialing 911 I wasn’t really as pro-active in this “emergency” situation as I would have liked to think I would have been. As the seconds turned into minutes and the minutes ticked by I kept thinking WHAT am I going to do to protect my kids sleeping kids?
Mamma bear mode kicked in….But I wanted to have some kind of weapon in my hand, baseball bat, kitchen knife…SOMETHING. However I stood frozen unable to go to the kitchen, because at this point I am thinking I need to just to stay right close to my sleeping kids.
And the kitchen is in the back of my house and by this time I am already thinking that the breaking of the window was a distraction and the intruder is in fact in the the house, in the kitchen….
It is amazing what goes through your mind in a matter of minutes in these surreal situations.
When I look back….The fear did make me freeze. I could think but not take action to move. I stood there ready to do whatever to protect my kids….But I couldn’t walk into the fear.
Witsend, in reading your story, it hit me what a true break-in might actually feel like, fear-wise. Thank heavens the culprit was caught and you and fam are OK, including dogs. Def understand how life experiences change us, some things in very profound and deep ways. Your reactions are so normal and any growth you glean from this is is well deserved for having gone through it. This I feel towards any of our sisters how have lived through any kind of abuse or violation and have survived. Some are stronger for it, others are just getting by. To actually grow from these experiences shows amazing depth and strength. May you continue to do well and enjoy the good things life does hold without undue fear and anxiety. I know how this feels and it’s not good. But your story holds hope for those willing to do the hard work.
Louise, yes, we are soul sisters in our similarities and reactions to these paths (pathetics in my book) and glad we found each other.
Some thoughts.
I *really* really really hope my loser is impotent. Just wanted to say that upfront.
I’m not sure if marriage is the reason that these guys are in control. Sure they use it as an excuse, but even if they were single, they’d be in control because they choose their victims well and they know how to assume control over chosen victims. Sure the marriage thing is convenient for them, but they’d have the control anyway. Just my opinion.
The Cialis story cracked me up…nothing about these stories is funny, but wow…machine-like is too funny and so goes with the personality. No feelings, no compassion, a machine gun in bed. Ew…come on, that has to turn you off! You deserve so much better but I have to ask you!! Was he ever affectionate???????????? Hugs, kisses, holding hands??? Was he kind in bed or always a machine gun? Haha. Sorry, but it so goes along with that whole path behavior pattern. I got the feeling my jerk did not get affection at all. Just sex. I so wonder if he would have been what I wanted had we ever gotten together. I vote for “no,” as he never showed one ounce of affection towards me, not a touch, nothing. Again, I made excuses, “of course, with his job, etc., he can’t dare be seen touching me.” Tsk, tsk, tsk. So stupid.
This excuse-making just sets our self-confidence back notch after notch after notch, like being hammered little by little into the ground. For me, it was like continuously telling myself I wasn’t worthy of his attention. As I’ve thought about him today, I realize he did very, very little in the way of being directly complimentary and that I did a lot of fantacizing. Yes, he said and did amazing things but the scales weigh much more heavily on the neglectful side.
You said that folks were too afraid for their jobs to report your “friend.”
You give good reasons for not wanting to turn him in. Before this job, I worked at a Fortune 500 for years…there was so much cheating going on in that place, it was ridiculous, but I stayed totally away from all of that. I was in the trenches and mainly with other women….so that was goodness. I loved that job but unfortunately, was lucky enuf to be laid off and into the non-arms of Jerkozoid. I didn’t turn him in partly because I was afraid he was smart and cagy and desperate enough to make it look like it was my fault – I was crazy and and an old bag that he was just kidding around with. Or, he might have denied the whole thing. I didn’t want to deal with that.
He said something inappropriate to me at the FIRST interview. I was SO not focused on him except to think he was a nicer looking guy than I expected. So I hardly heard or cared what he said. On the 2nd interview, he told me a sob story about his life and marriage…so totally inappropriate. I honestly thought he was looking for a confidante (mother image). Never considered he was interested and I surely wasn’t AT ALL. He subtly wormed his way into my heart. then hit on me, from there, it was exhilaration, craziness, I felt brainwashed. But I never, ever trusted him. I thought he was cute but smarmy all through this interlude. I used him as a distraction from all the anxieties of life and it worked so well. But then it just got depressing because all of a sudden, he was totally gone…never even checked with me on the holidays….what a piece of s.
Hey, listen, Louise, if I were single and I met a guy like yours, I prob would have slept with him too…no doubt. Esp if he was separated. I did sleep with a separted guy in my past and probably more than that who didn’t even tell me! You’re right, that’s in the past and you can’t change it but I *know* for certain that you won’t get involved with a path again. You know the signs and as witsend pts out, you’re going to be very sensitive to them, as this has been one hell of a learning experience. An unfortunate one, to say the least, but one that has hopefully supplied you with path radar. And, when good ones come into your life, you will be more apt to appreciate them. Do you push nice men away??
OK, hugs right back at you…I am really starting to detest my louse and yours too.
Hugs right back at you.