“How did he really feel?” and “What did he want from me?” are two questions that often haunt victims of sociopaths. The reason we are haunted by these questions varies but often stems from the habit of over-focusing on the sociopath instead of ourselves. That being said, victims also have a healthy ”˜need to know’ that can help with recovery and healing.
I struggled with these questions in my own healing. I remain baffled by my observations of enjoyment of affection on the part of sociopaths. Early on, I told my own therapist that I had come to the conclusion that sociopaths exploit those close to them to the point of death, then, cry at the funeral. At the moment the tears are shed, I believe they do represent a grief of sorts. The feelings of loss experienced by sociopaths are however, short lived. Victims also have to beware because, although sociopaths are said to be incapable of feelings for those in their lives, they do become obsessed with them. Psychologists have not yet explained this obsession. If they don’t attach, why are they obsessed? Those who have read my other entries know that I believe that sociopaths do attach. It is what they do with attachments that is disordered.
How did he really feel?
In response to the picture of a sociopath crying at his victim’s funeral, my therapist said, “He feels what he tells himself he feels.” To help you understand what my therapist meant, I will explain what is known about how people usually experience feelings.
There are two components to feelings. The first is a physical sensation. When we experience a feeling we feel something in our bodies in relationship to that feeling. Think about loving someone close to you and sense how your body feels. Is it warmth in your heart? That is usually what people report.
There is much evidence that these physical sensations are disordered in sociopaths. Sociopaths do not generally experience the physical and hormonal changes that go along with feeling emotion. If they do experience them, it is to a lesser degree. Physical responses are blunted.
The second component of feelings is called attribution. Attribution is a cognitive process. When I feel that warmth in my heart as I see my children, I attribute the sensation to my love for them. Thus the physical sensation alone does not make emotion. Emotion is physical sensations and our interpretations of these sensations. There is also evidence that the parts of the brain responsible for attribution do not function properly in sociopaths.
There is one emotion that many sociopaths experience in a not so disordered way. This emotion is anger. Sociopaths do have blunted physical responses to anger. Despite this blunted responsiveness, they seem aware of angry feelings and make correct attributions about what makes them angry. Again, science has not even addressed, much less explained this observation.
Since the physical sensations and attributions that allow for the experience of emotion are disordered in sociopaths, their inner world is very different. They are left to make sense of themselves and others without the tools most of us use. Other parts of the brain fill in the missing processes. The person who is credited with first describing sociopathy in depth is Hervey Cleckley. He proposed that sociopaths are at least of average if not above average verbal intelligence. This makes sense because they have to use their verbal intelligence to make up for their lack of emotions. They do indeed feel what they tell themselves they feel. Scientists say they mimic other people’s emotions, yet again there is no real proof of this.
What did he want from me?
This question is easy to answer intellectually, but very hard for victims to accept emotionally. There are three pleasures we get from our love relationships. The first is pleasure in affection. The second is sexual pleasure. The third is pleasure associated with dominance and control. Sociopaths experience sex and dominance as enormously more pleasurable than affection. Therefore, they are in relationships to get sex and power, pure and simple.
If you love deeply and feel affection for others, you cannot fathom the inner world of an emotionally disordered person whose primary pleasures are sex and power. To understand another’s world you have to imagine yourself experiencing what the other experiences. You can’t do this with a sociopath.
Louise Gallagher said in her post The six steps of healing from a psychopath that the first step is acceptance. We have to accept that we can only know in part how sociopaths really feel and what they want from us. We can understand intellectually, but never emotionally.
I’m truly disgusted by your stories, darwinsmom and libragirl. the abuse you have taken. Chillling and then some. Please stay NC (not sure what that means “not in contact?” I can understand how they get under your skin, but Ox is correct, keep trying to recall not the innocent way they look in your eyes, or how they need you, but the fact that those things truly are masks and they are *unable* to feel anything at all, including compassion, love, no conscience. I know you’ve heard this all before, but these guys are draining everything out of you and each time you make contact or allow them to do so, you are allowing them to chip away at your esteem and undermine your self-image.
It is SO not worth it. I look at my experience as if it were surreal and horrific. There is so little, basically nothing, that was humane and upstanding about “it” – he was a total facade. Paper. I’ll tell ya, if he hadn’t been good-looking, it wouldn’t have happened at all. The smarm factor was there at Interview 1 as I said earlier. His looks roped me in. From there, he cast his spell and spun his web. that b-tard even had the nerve to call my husband “what’s his name” and call me at home when he knew my husband was around, expecting me to answer questions that would have gotten us both in trouble! What a true f-ing nut. Sorry, but it really enrages me and what enrages me more, is that I thought it was complimentary. Who, in a management position does that to an employee? This is illness at its most obvious. Hungry for his attention, I took it as fun and uplifting, all the while knowing he was up to NO good and I was gonna end up in a horrible place. All true. When I read your stories I feel so sick that kind and thoughtful women like yourselves and others here are accepting this garbage. But I fully understand it. Try to compare these sick behaviors with those of an empathic man. when they look into your eyes and interact with you, there is meaning and true caring there. None of this BS.
The dog thing is another hit for me…so glad I found this blog. My thing said his dog died and he still misses him. Came over to my desk one day and just started talking out of the blue….and one of the things he told me was about his dog. I thought, “This is beyond bizarre. I haven’t spoken to him in days, and he’s telling me this story out of the blue?” I wondered after I realized how sick he really was (basically hitting on me for the first time right there at his desk!!! How did he know I wouldn’t way “What the hell are you talking about?” It sure is what I was thinking.), “Why would he talk about his dog out of the blue?” Thanks for the insights….now I know.
Yes, Louise, I believe “things” want their prey to believe they are good people with wonderful families, just that things went south due to their wives, of course. Mine said his wife was diagnosed as crazy and that he was SO afraid that she would have a negative effect on his kid. I think we know who is having the negative effect. Actually I think she threw him out a long time ago and he was pretending to live at home. I’m glad he got fired….so very, very glad. One thing that really messed me up was the appearance thing. He did reveal that he like my looks so I went NUTS on a daily basis, since I am not young anymore, taking undue time and energy towards looking good. I don’t even want to think about the regimen I went through on an hourly basis. Forget learning my job. I was all about him and the funny part is that even tho we were in the same office, some days he’d just slink around and I’d never see him. Once he got in trouble, he’d just throw me less crumbs than usual, but always try to be sure he threw something.
Another tough thing for me was of all things, music. I have just started to be able to listen to my favorite music again. Music is an emotional stimulant for me and we shared a lot of of it in emails and talked about different artists a lot. I could not bear to listen to some of my favorite music when he jumped out of my life (hope he’s a mental institution but I’m sure he’s not and he ISN”T thinking of me). When I listen to music that I was so into during his psycho reign over my life, I find it intensely upsetting, he is so wound up in it and I can feel him around me. In reality, he couldn’t care less about that. He likes music but it doesn’t affect him at all…only once did he say a song gave him chills at one particular point. I was shocked that he said something like that. There is still one song I can’t listen to as during our last and horrific convo when he lied right in my face about something that had happened between us telling me it never happened (I again, was shocked and did not say what I should have).
This song, very emotional, so well described in words and music what both of us might have been going through at the time, esp him. I told him to listen to it and listen well….he sent a short note that night to thank me for the song and included the *last* line….I know exactly what he did….he listened only to the last line. What a piece of dung.
I do realize, as skylar says, “it” was putting himself in a precarious position by flirting and hitting on me (and obviously others) right in the office, because he must have loved the drama.
On the other hand, when the jig was up, he did become crazed and desperate, when we spoke alone, muttering about all the losses he could suffer, (didn’t even listen when I said I had a lot to lose too if I got dragged into this). He was not a happy camper at all…wondering if when negative reality finally hits them, why don’t they love *that* drama too? They must have some measure of reality when they finally realize they no longer have control and are going to lose creature comforts. Without being able to conjure how it feels to be without conscience or any compassion or empathy, I can’t even imagine how all this “feels” to a path.
BBE, what a good point you bring up about our immune systems. I was just talking with someone, yesterday, about how strong associations with spaths can really make us physically ill – I was speaking more in terms of myself, than my friend.
I believe that the human body works cooperatively on a physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual level. When I was experiencing domestic violence in my first marriage, I was constantly fighting infection and injuring myself ALL of the time. This second marriage, I developed a lifelong condition and took a number of injuries towards the end of the relationship.
Perhaps, because we’re functioning on so many levels, we have to somehow process the negativity and traumatic experiences with spaths. The emotional damages have to manifest themselves in some way before it’s expunged from our psyches?
I’m ready for another day. Brightest blessings.
still reeling, NC means NO CONTACT.
The limited contact I’ve had the past week, after one year, was not damaging to me, but I could feel the drama rising around me. I just felt as if in a soapbubble, the drama was enveloping me, but not touching me YET. But more pressure and drama could have burst the bubble, and I worked too long and too hard to get back where I am in life: smiling again, enjoying my life and company, working again and functioning even better than before in some respect. He is now totally out of my life, whatever follows is 100% none of my responsibility anymore. I’ve blocked any possible spy for him and all enablers. If they want to keep living on his drama and promises, masks and lies that’s their problem, and I don’t want any of them making it my problem.
Still reeling, I personally believe they do not possess the bodily (brain and heart nerve center) abilities to do what normal people in general can do: they cannot intuit. Some studies show that our body responds to future random events as if it knows what the random outcome will be. It occurs once we perform an action to start off a series of random events. This is something we may not be conscious of, but our body knows and experiences cause and effect even on random outcomes daily and since we were born. Not only teaches this our bodies that there is something like cause-effect, it teaches our bodies that there is an absolute truth or source of truth outside of ourselves… how else could our bodies otherwise be able to kindof “download” future info accurately? We don’t need to be cognitively taught concepts of cause-effect and truth, because it’s an intuited concept we experience everyday. Spaths I suspect cannot intuit in this way at all, and therefore do not experience the intuited concepts of truth and cause-effect. These concepts have to be cognitively taught to them. But deep down, they still feel as if truth is relative, that they can make it what they want it to be, and this idea is reinforced through the succesful results of their masks. And if the truth is relative to them, then so is cause-effect. Just like they lack the brain functions to feel emotionally as we do, I suspect they lack the bodily functions to intuit.
Case in point is the polite request email I received from the ex-spath (and I had told him – ask me politely and I will consider): total different tone, very well written instead of the garbled threats, very reasonable sounding, but forgetting conveniently all what made me miserable and writing it off as “growing apart” and not knowing “why”… he was rewriting history, without an audience, while he cognitively knows I know the truth. He hates me, I totally despise him for what he is, and he knows that I know he’s a spath. There is no reason to pretend his current gf is his ex-gf. There are no reasons to lie, and yet he does anyway, even though I can see right through them. I don’t even think that under the circumstances it’s about preserving ego. He just plainly showed in that email with his twists and blatant lies that he does not understand intuitively the concept of truth and does not even consider that other people can know the truth independently from he claims it to be.
Darwinsmom, I noticed in all of my experiences with spaths that the abyss of deciet seems to be hard-wired. These people cannot, for whatever reason, speak the truth even if it is in their own best interests to do so.
After discovering the truth about the exspath, I told him quite specifically that, given his levels of deception, nothing that came out of his mouth could be taken as “truthful.” I responded to his vehement denials of his now-documented activites with, “I do not believe you, I cannot believe you, and I WILL not believe anything you say.”
Other spaths convoluted the “truth” to suit their own needs – grandiose claims, claims of prestigious associations, claims of accolades, etc….they simply do not know Truth, even if it fell smack onto their heads.
Exactly: they don’t know what truth is, not even when it’s staring them in their face. And that’s why they can lie without flinching to someone who knows the truth. I wasn’t shocked by the email, because I had already integrated this knowledge… but a part of me thought, “Do you really believe I’d be that stupid to believe all this polite and well written mask?” I guess he does. It was interesting to read though once you can see right through it, when you can predict their actions and mindset. I was one step ahead of him mentally. It was a total validation for me of knowing what he is.
I have to watch out for him though… He started with apologizing for writing such an angry mail to me before and that I must know he’ll never visit me in Belgium or wish me any harm. In spathworld it means he would love to do nothing more than that. I’ve alerted some people in the neighborhood to be on the watch for him for me the coming months. And I posted a note for the other residents in this house to NOT open the front door for anyone asking about me, not for any excuse. The only people who need access when I’m not home have a key.
still reeling:
It’s because they don’t want to lose. They always want to be in control so they HATE getting caught. That can mean losing everything and they will try to avoid that at ALL costs. I saw it with mine, too…believe me. They push and push and push the limits until they know they can’t anymore. They KNOW EXACTLY what they are doing and how far to go. Gets me triggered even thinking about it! UGGHH
still reeling:
Yep, my “IT” did that crap, too…him being in a Management position and me just a lowly subordinate…it was WRONG. And that’s WHY yours was fired. Some companies will not tolerate this type of behavior.
Yeah, yours was really doing a pity play with the dog story…idiot. HA, mine came right out and said he was too selfish for pets! At least he was honest on that one. I remember asking him if he had a dog or anything and he said, “No, I’m too selfish for pets.” Bingo!!
Hmmmm, I wonder if yours is still separated or back with the wife? Yeah, sounds like he is the crazy one and IF she is crazy, it’s because he made her that way!
OMG, what you said about the appearance thing…this is just too weird! You know what mine did?? (and I NOW suspect he did it with everyone). He asked me what my “type” was and what my “criteria” was for liking someone. He told me that he didn’t like loud, fat…wanted someone who was athletic and has a sense of dress. So what did I go out and do? I bought a bunch of new clothes and started dressing really nice. I was already really thin, but proceeded to go down to a size 0 as I was so stressed out with everything. And guess what? I am sure he was watching…I fell right into his trap! And you know what? All the other women who I KNOW were with him and even the ones I suspected…they all started dressing up and became very skinny!!! Isn’t that eerie??? He set it up and then just sat back and watched all these women change for him…sick, sick man.
Oh and music, I am the same way. There are still songs I can’t listen to at all.
darwinsmom, I’m not exactly sure I understand what you’re saying about spaths not being able to intuit. Do you mean they can’t project what will happen in the future based upon what’s going on in the present? You mentioned cause-effect. So I think I know where you’re going here. I would not disagree, it’s just so darned hard to figure out how someone lives life devoid of well, actually the cog and emotional tools that make us human. I do believe we are all imbued with different abilities in the areas where spaths are completely lacking. I’ve tried to think of analogies….like people who have no pain sensations at all but I can’t come up with anything that is even close. I just flashed on a cardboard cut-out when I thought of “monster”. A *very* cunning and calculated cardboard cutout…when you look behind it, you see gray paper. That’s it. I like that image. There was no blood or warmth in that body. Just cardboard.
It sounds as if you have this pretty much under control and have covered all bases to keep staying healthy and to keep him out of your life entirely….this is the common thread I see in all literature and self-help, etc. “Get away and stay away.” No good can come of it. They will not change.
I so wish you the best and agree that you have worked far too hard to let yourself be cajoled into anything by this master manip. Their inhumanity allows them to do and say outlandish crap that means nothing to them but could win them a peek into our lives again, and from there…..fingers crossed you will not have to experience this creep ever again.
Truthspeak, yes, the deceit, I agree is hard-wired. I never had the chance to tell monster what you were so enviably able to do, which is to say to his pathetic face that you can’t and won’t EVER believe what he says!!!! I have so often pretended to speak with him and say just that. And I have further realized that it is true, not just some supportive self-speak manufactured to make me feel better or hate him more. If he called me today, I daresay, it’s the first reaction, after nausea, I’d have. Nothing out of that deceitful mouth can be believed. He did tell me some things that *were* true and I’m not sure why…I guess lying can get tiring and also, I wonder if he even knew the truth from a lie. The worm-infested computer they have for a brain may be able to calculate in nanoseconds whether it’s ok to tell this particular person whether they have brothers and sisters or not.
It’s true about the grandiosity that comes out of their mouths. Monster told me he of many exploits he had in his earlier life and I believed it all…I can’t say for sure it’s true, but really now do wonder. Meeting famous people, etc. Honestly, I couldn’t care less so that carp fell on deaf ears…not impressed.
I still find it difficult to wrap my head around the fact that they don’t know what truth is altho monster did act like that at times. I think they just lie so damned much, they have truth and lies confused.
I, too, felt many times as you did, darwinsmom, wondering if he thought I was stupid enough to believe some of his tripe esp when it involved certain behaviors that I knew were so bogus, it made me cringe. I’d tell him so. And he’d laugh sometimes and say, “Yes, I can see you cringing when I come into the room. You just look like you want to crawl into a corner.” I thought he was just being phony because he was the boss and had to be careful.
I’m very, very, very, horribly embarrased and ashamed that I took allowed this tramp to infiltrate my life and put his a** on a pedastal..I’ve always had waaaaaaaaaaaaay too much respect for authority figures – I never kiss up, NO WAY and in this world, that has gotten me pushed to the end of the line a few times, but a line I see now I’m glad I wasn’t in. With him, I was impressed with his job and looks and that he would be interested in lowly me…ARRRGGGHH, you can’t imagine how that sickens and embarrasses me. He was gross and disgusting and neglectful at every turn and I just made excuse and excuse and excuse for him because of a look, a word, a note when it was a little risky, “there’s something about you.” Yeah, and I know what is was…..I looked good to you and you thought I was stupid, naive and vulnerable. You were right, monster. I’d like to punch his lights out in the worst way. I def made a fool out of myself.
Be careful, darwinsmom…..hang tough.
Louise, oh Louise……you are correct..when I asked about why all of a sudden when monster realized he was screwed, he was almost like a normal human being in his desperation. He did say over and over, “I could lose everything, I could lose everything.” Well yeah buddy, obviously you are a manipulative, subversive, highly intelligent piece of deceitful dirt…why were you dumb enuf to let it hang out in the office (literally, I’m sure)? I just to not get this at all…do they want to be caught? Sometimes, I think yes. But then, as you say, they HAVE to be in control…monster was def like that. He told me where to get my car fixed, what dr to see, etc. I told him repeatedly, “I have a dr, I have a mechanic.” He would just shake his head. I would smile off to the side thinking, “Aw he cares! Wants me to use the same people he uses.” I was so knee-deep in believing him, that I could just rip my hair out.
Plus, monster, to add to the list was hugely passive-aggressive and I would blame myself because I didn’t latch onto a crumb he’d throw at me, such as, “there are lots of good restaurants around here.” I’d beat myself for not saying, “Well, come on, let’s go!” I know full well that if someone wants to be with you, they will ask! He was passive that way, but aggressive when he wanted something. Aggressive by trickery, “Please call me, it’ll make things all better.” When I called, he just wanted me to support him on something that would make it better for HIM. B-tard!! Had nothing to do with me. He knew just how to reel me in, then drop me on my head.
Would send me songs that were so loving, then tell me he never listened to lyrics so I shouldn’t either. Piece of crap. And I let him get away with it. Never made excuses like that for my own family!!! Blast it.
Louise, your description of the appearance thing *would* be funny, if it weren’t so sad. I did the same thing. I am naturally thin as well and when I lost a little more wgt after having surgery, I worried myself sick that I wouldn’t look good to him as my booty was decidedly smaller and I knew he liked my body. It was hard to gain wgt because at the office, where I normally like to snack, I didn’t as I was afraid I’d get something in my teeth and he’d choose that moment to come into my office. How pathetic is that??? I was looking at myself every 20 min, brushing my teeth like crazy all day, brought mouthwash to the office, knowing all the time what I was doing was not only wrong but majorly causing my esteem to plunge to the depths. Once again, it was my looks, only this time, being older, I had to work so much harder. I, too, went out and bought things I couldn’t afford to be attractive to him. It totally addled my brain.
I can’t believe your monster told you what he liked…mine was too passive and scared for that. He almost never said anything about me directly…only in those weird outbursts (which were always quiet outbursts) or about women in general, which tells me he had already been in trouble. When I forced him eye to eye in a conf rm to tell me if he was flirting with me or not, he first said, “NO!” Honestly, I was kind of relieved. Then he said, “Yes!” Only during that time, did he tell me a few things about why he was attracted to me. There were other times on phone and email when he was a totally different personality, fun, glib, someone I really enjoyed.
We do have a lot in common, Louise, our monsters sound a bit different, yours being, I think more open. Mine acted like he had mental and emotional constipation, and as it turns out, he does. I told him once that I thought he was psychotic….I was only half kidding. Wonder what he thought of that.
I am not understanding Louise, why you push men away. I know this isn’t the forum for it….but it seems you are like me, for the most part, more turned on by inappropriate men. I know myself well, yet all my life, I’d choose just those men who could not give me any of what I wanted as it wasn’t in their nature so I became even more needy, jealous and insecure. I get that now. The ones who wanted to be close and supportive and actually look and act like a pair, I would shun. Well, I’ve gone on way too long.
Thanks to anyone who read this…and for this blog. It’s very helpful tho I’m sorry that any of us had to go thru these experiences. Like a tick, as far as I’m concerned, they have NO redeeming qualities..NOT ANY.
Truthspeak:
Truth is not their reality and they can’t see it. Their reality is the world that they create. Their only mission in life to validate their lies by any means. Politicians seem to be the very best at this and have the ‘super pac’ money to fund their lies. No different than a Madoff ponzie scheme. There will always be spaths selling their reality and those willing to buy into them. Seems like when my truth was too sad or hopeless, I willingly bought into a spath’s truth. No more. Shalom