“How did he really feel?” and “What did he want from me?” are two questions that often haunt victims of sociopaths. The reason we are haunted by these questions varies but often stems from the habit of over-focusing on the sociopath instead of ourselves. That being said, victims also have a healthy ”˜need to know’ that can help with recovery and healing.
I struggled with these questions in my own healing. I remain baffled by my observations of enjoyment of affection on the part of sociopaths. Early on, I told my own therapist that I had come to the conclusion that sociopaths exploit those close to them to the point of death, then, cry at the funeral. At the moment the tears are shed, I believe they do represent a grief of sorts. The feelings of loss experienced by sociopaths are however, short lived. Victims also have to beware because, although sociopaths are said to be incapable of feelings for those in their lives, they do become obsessed with them. Psychologists have not yet explained this obsession. If they don’t attach, why are they obsessed? Those who have read my other entries know that I believe that sociopaths do attach. It is what they do with attachments that is disordered.
How did he really feel?
In response to the picture of a sociopath crying at his victim’s funeral, my therapist said, “He feels what he tells himself he feels.” To help you understand what my therapist meant, I will explain what is known about how people usually experience feelings.
There are two components to feelings. The first is a physical sensation. When we experience a feeling we feel something in our bodies in relationship to that feeling. Think about loving someone close to you and sense how your body feels. Is it warmth in your heart? That is usually what people report.
There is much evidence that these physical sensations are disordered in sociopaths. Sociopaths do not generally experience the physical and hormonal changes that go along with feeling emotion. If they do experience them, it is to a lesser degree. Physical responses are blunted.
The second component of feelings is called attribution. Attribution is a cognitive process. When I feel that warmth in my heart as I see my children, I attribute the sensation to my love for them. Thus the physical sensation alone does not make emotion. Emotion is physical sensations and our interpretations of these sensations. There is also evidence that the parts of the brain responsible for attribution do not function properly in sociopaths.
There is one emotion that many sociopaths experience in a not so disordered way. This emotion is anger. Sociopaths do have blunted physical responses to anger. Despite this blunted responsiveness, they seem aware of angry feelings and make correct attributions about what makes them angry. Again, science has not even addressed, much less explained this observation.
Since the physical sensations and attributions that allow for the experience of emotion are disordered in sociopaths, their inner world is very different. They are left to make sense of themselves and others without the tools most of us use. Other parts of the brain fill in the missing processes. The person who is credited with first describing sociopathy in depth is Hervey Cleckley. He proposed that sociopaths are at least of average if not above average verbal intelligence. This makes sense because they have to use their verbal intelligence to make up for their lack of emotions. They do indeed feel what they tell themselves they feel. Scientists say they mimic other people’s emotions, yet again there is no real proof of this.
What did he want from me?
This question is easy to answer intellectually, but very hard for victims to accept emotionally. There are three pleasures we get from our love relationships. The first is pleasure in affection. The second is sexual pleasure. The third is pleasure associated with dominance and control. Sociopaths experience sex and dominance as enormously more pleasurable than affection. Therefore, they are in relationships to get sex and power, pure and simple.
If you love deeply and feel affection for others, you cannot fathom the inner world of an emotionally disordered person whose primary pleasures are sex and power. To understand another’s world you have to imagine yourself experiencing what the other experiences. You can’t do this with a sociopath.
Louise Gallagher said in her post The six steps of healing from a psychopath that the first step is acceptance. We have to accept that we can only know in part how sociopaths really feel and what they want from us. We can understand intellectually, but never emotionally.
Exactly Sky! When he tried to create a loud argument, and used threats, that tactic always backfired. I would be calm and tell him to execute his threats. One time he made a whole theater abotu packing his bag, then he ran downstairs to the hotel reception, but left his packed bag in the room. I put it outside the room for him to pick up, closed the door and window and went to sleep. He totally flipped over that, and eventually donned the “I’m such a sheepish fool who said stupid stuff because I was so upset” mask. It’s what he tried on the contact over the profile too this week: first threaten me, and I told him to just go right ahead, which of course wouldn’t help him at all in getting what he practically wanted, and I suggested to ask me politely… and in his polite mask (he used Usted in every sentence almost) he did the “I’m such a stupid ass who just said those things cause I was so angry, you know I’d never do that to you blablabla…” Just this time, my very last time, I knew it to be a mask, one I had even proposed as probably the only workable mask. And the “too upset and I was angry” explanation wasn’t believable either. I’m sure he hates me and is seething with anger. But threats aren’t about releasing anger; threats are about control.
The only way he could get to me in that way was just repeat something ad nauseum, bug me and keep bugging me about something, until I had to put my foot down… and then of course I was the “sour one” the “always angry” one and yup “controlling”.
My mind really is boggled. darwinsmom, thanks for the explanation re: the experiment. I have no doubt paths can’t intuit, wouldn’t know what truth was if they tripped and fell over it and are soulless, sick and non-human. I do not believe they possess human qualities, only in dribs and drabs as many of you and myself have described. Those are the times and moments that seem to be larger than life to us. Re-playing in our heads, seeming as if there will never be another feeling like that, another karmaic connection of that sort. As I’ve said many x, they choose their victims well.
I’ve often told my daughter that one way she will know if she’s with the “right” guy is that she will be her best self around him. Too bad I couldn’t follow my own advice but I think that’s true. but one has to look at the overall picture and realize that once we start to feel something is wrong, antennae need to go up and 3 strikes, you are OUT. those of us on this blog obviously have different reasons for it, but we do get something out of this heinous love that hurts and belittles us. I think we need to keep working on ourselves as many of us are and let the feelings of “loss” wash over us. They will pass.
I feel fortunate that I did not marry or get physically involved with monster or I prob would have done something drastic. I am not as strong a person as I would like to be and envy those of you who have made it through this huge disaster and are coming out the other end. Survivor, darwinsmom, truth, skylar, Louise, (Jeez), I am astounded at your inner strength.
Truthspeak, your post from 4/10 at 8:16 kind of sums it all up for me. These are twisted, sick individuals and there is nothing we can do about them except kick them out of our lives, then live with the aftermath of emotion. Your upbeat outlook, which I’m sure varies from time to time, understandably, (after all we are empaths), is so right on.
I am working very diligently on trying to forget that this creep existed in my life, and I still think he’s going to show up at work (altho I believe he’s been banned from the place, I have no one to talk to at work so I don’t know. He was actually my only “friend”. omg). Everyone is in their 20’s and they are pleasant to me, but hell, we can’t be close and no one that young has had the life experience to understand or even want to hear my tale of woe. No way I’d talk to them about him. I don’t trust management, AT ALL. the one woman who is my age I think had a hand in turning him in…we were friends at one time, but I never trusted her because she is bizarre and moody, I still like her, but hell, I can’t confide in her. I just want to know so badly what happened. Hit me between the eyes and maybe I’ll see straight. In the meantime, I can only recall the last day I saw him before he was gone forever. I ran into him in the hall and told him I didn’t feel well and wanted to go home. He looked so calm, peaceful, serene….when he was like that, he soothed my anxious soul. He asked me if I wanted to “talk.” I said NO!!!!!!!!!!!! G-d the last time we had talked, he lied, got angry, grabbed the desk, etc. F that. Maybe he would have told me he had gotten the ax. I actually ended up with the flu and he got fired that week when I was home sick…but I’ve told that story.
As far as being a baby, yep, yep, yep….wanted to be mothered. Definitely had a mother thing going. I used to tell him that that’s what he wanted from me, with my being older. He said I should be flattered, as his mom was wonderful….
Louise, yes, same, monster is very good-looking some might say…he had so many faces, I liked some of them, not all…it’s weird how they can actually look different physically. However, his wife was not. “Looked like a man.” Ha ha..maybe your monster really is homo or bi-sexual..but what’s the diff, he got to you.
I get the same story everywhere I go about my age….I think I’m so damned immature and silly at times, it just makes me seem younger but I always have looked younger. Yes, we are all dolts for trying to be perfect for these hopeless jerks. And yes, I can see them just sitting back watching it all happen for them. It grosses me out entirely and angers me a lot.
Ya know Louise, you are interesting. You push men away because you don’t believe in them and don’t want to be bothered and are afraid of the pain…and felt this way before it came into your life. Why then didn’t you push him away? Was it his charm? So freaking sad. I understand what you mean and I have hardened so much over the yrs about the concept of love. It was my entire goal (ew) to be in love, married, happy….before Godzilla, I had totally given up on feeling anything for anyone, but he completely turned me around and with so little effort on his part…but really who knows how much it took even to give me the crumbs he threw my way.
I wish I could make you feel better about the sex and affection. I am glad we never even touched. He was very careful about that so I know he must have been warned or something in the past…I’m SO curious….he completely wiped himself off the internet. You can’t find a thing about him. Probably pays a lot for that. The most he would be is kind of hit me with his elbow when he was kidding around or wanted me to listen or look at something. I should have slugged him. You have to believe he was like (I was going to say garden hose but that’s a bad analogy with his machine gun and all)…he was like a long drink of water after being thirsty for so long. You may have lost your belief in love and repressed your desire for sex, but he got to you and along with all the affection, you must have been absolutely giddy. Gleeful…I so fully understand. I got so little from him, but what I got really was like a breath of fresh air and I made excuses for all the obvious brush-offs and lack of interest in me as a person. I can’t believe I didn’t take him aside when he hit on me and tell him no way and not to do it again. You know why? Because I knew he didn’t know me well enuf to really like me as a person, even know me. I do believe people can fall for each other when the circumstances are really bad (even if both or one are/is married) and if it wasn’t a real connection based upon mutual love and admiration, well, I didn’t want it anyway. I just fantacized that it was that. It wasn’t as you know. No, I was his 10 min girl, 10 min to chat and he always had to take a call. I’m sure it would have been 10 min in bed too. UGH!!!!!!!!!
Louise, I hope you can meet someone who will sweep you off your feet. I know that sounds trite. I think you would be a great partner and I’d love it if you could find one of those guys that would look at you like you’re the wonderful person you are and button that top button or zip the zipper of your jacket on a cool evening. Then give you a hug. The real deal.
I, too, feel glad to have found this blog and think you are a spectacular group of ladies, strong and loving. Not to sound pollyanna, but I sure hope you not only completely recover from the physical, emotional, mental, spiritual and financial traumas caused by these sick, sick, SICK “things” but find some positive and real support and love in the future, if you haven’t already…even the strongest tree needs some kind of nurturing. Love to you all.
And a million thanks as well for sharing your stories and offering so much help and understanding to me.
Argh, Louise, I hope you can understand my blabbering-3rd paragraph from the bottom…it’s hard to tell whether I’m talking about your monster or mine….I got a little excited. Should have proofed. xo
SurvivorAgain, omigosh, I’m so sorry to hear about the PI. How did you find out about this? Do you know where HE is? You mentioned that you had moved 3x’s – are you in the same general area, or is there a great distance between you and him? You mentioned a RO – this means that he has violated the RO by hiring a PI to find you, I believe. Then, again….I could be VERY wrong about that, so it may be a good idea to contact your local District Attorney or police department and explain the situation. Was it a PERMANENT restraining order?
Still Reeling – isn’t this site a godsend?! I’ve posted it already, but I surely would have gone stark, raving mad had I not found this site 3 years ago.
Brightest blessings to EVERYONE! And, the peace of healing blessings on us all.
Yes, yes, T.Speak, a huge godsend. I did ramble a lot in my post but there is a paragraph in there for you….I really respect your hard work and strength. It’s tough enough when one knows the enemy and can see the ammo and the hate and the diseased mind. But when the enemy presents as a loving friend and/or lover or omg, marries you, even if you realize something is not quite right, unless you’ve had prior experience with spaths, there is no way to quite know what hole you’ve fallen down. The insidiuousness of it is beyond comprehension as you are caught up in this whirlwind and don’t understand the width and breadth of the havoc which has become your life. I am still unable to get my mind around this disease but with the help of this group, I hope to regain at least some of my former self. I can only imagine how Godzilla licked his chops when vulnerable, naive, STUPID me came along. I am just so glad it never went too far…and had he not gotten in trouble, I fear it might have…he knew me better than I know me. Very infuriating and quite scary. Hugs
Still Reeling, you’re not “stupid.” You were just trusting, that’s all. You will always BE your “former self,” but the changes to that self will ultimately be positive ones – you know the scam, now, and you know the “red flags.” Will you never fall victim to another spath? Who can say? But, if another one comes along and you discover what they truly are, you’ll be able to smile to yourself, nod your head, and say, “I see you – I see what you are, and you’ve got the WRONG patsy, this time!”
Yepper – they get into trouble, and the cat’s out of the proverbial bag, isn’t it? When the exspath left, I was completely unaware that we were over 3 months behind in bills, the house had already been sent into foreclosure, and so on and so forth. Completely unaware! Now, HOW can someone hide THAT kind of financial collapse from their spouse without the slightest indication?! I have to take responsibility for having placed my trust in this man’s hands, and learn from it. NEVER, ever, ever again will I trust ANYONE with my finances or well-being. Never.
And, sex? ROTFLMAO!!!! I can achieve a satisfying O. all by myself if I want one. Right now, the very idea of sex makes me physically nauseous when I consider the violent deviances that the exspath was into. And, there lies the worst rub: bills weren’t being paid because he was paying BIG money to engage in things that I cannot even fathom.
You will be just fine, Still Reeling. It will take time, and there will be triggers, and the whole awful roller coaster of cognitive dissonance, but you’ll EMERGE from this!
Oh, Still Reeling – rambling is a GOOD thing! So, “RAMBLE ON!!!!” 😀
Thanks Truthspeak…..I had never really heard of cognitive dissonance before this blog….and here I considered myself somewhat knowledgeable about psychology….Wow, I mean I’ve always been aware of the concept, but for it to have a name and take shape, is eye-opening for me..doing some reading on it and it’s helpful for understanding not only “it” but other issues in my life which I’ve always called “my problem drawing the line.” I think I am beginning to understand this now. Wow, I must say, I’m not happy about how I got here but sure glad I *am* here. Actually I took off today from work which is why I’m babbling but thx for humoring my “rambles.”
I really am not all that trusting, Truth, I used to be. I think I have trusted the wrong people and over time, it has eroded by trust in everyone. Only the very “special” like Godzilla get through……Lord Have MERCY!
On the cog diss thing, though, I’ve always had problems with things like disciplining my child and either feel like I’ve been too lax or too tough. Of course, this is partly because of the all or nothing, obsessive nature of which I have been “blessed.” But my mind is always in conflict and I have such a hard time taking a stance and maintaining it….as I’m always questioning if I did the right thing or should have done it differently or trying to figure out if someone’s comment really was cutting or was it just a joke….blah, blah, blah. My husband always says he’s so glad he isn’t inside my head. Can’t say that I blame him.
But, I think I am beginning to see the light w/this cog diss thing. It kind of helps me see that it’s ok, quite healthy, actually, to rationalize these thoughts (fox and grapes) and not beat oneself because they have done so….if I were the fox, I would rationalize as well, but be plagued by the thought that I *know* the real reason and find it hard to live with that….I don’t know…so confused.
I do see how that state of mind plays so well into the path’s game. Nothing better than a confused woman…right? I need to read and think on this some more.
A friend of mine made a comment to me a few weeks ago, and boy, it hit me like a ton of bricks…not because it was profound but because I was SO ready to hear it. She said,”Yes, I could tell Janet had made up her mind even though there it was obvious she may have had some misgivings, she stood behind her decision.”
I thought, WOW, so that’s what being assertive and secure is all about! No one is ever *certain* that they are completely right (narcs, egoists, paths excluded of course), so the more secure of us stands behind the best decision they can make and realizes it may not be right at all, may be exactly right or somewhere inbetween, but that’s OK. As long as one believes in their decision and stands behind it always with an open mind, of course, they will gain strength just from believing in themselves and accepting that it’s ok if they aren’t right every time…..this really helps me and ties in directly with the cog diss. Not exactly sure how, but I know it would have made all the diff w/Godzilla. I may have had a tough time, but if I’d stood strong at the start, and listened to my gut, he would have left me alone, I think….
OK, I’ll be quiet. Thx again, Truth!
still reeling:
Me, too…I so wish I could turn back time and stood my ground, but I didn’t. I did for awhile…he was emailing me everyday asking me out and I kept making excuses…I intuitively or subconsciously knew this was going to lead to no good, but somehow after awhile, he broke me down and it’s almost like I was in a trance. I relayed this story to my best friend about a month ago and I started crying when I was telling her the story and I have been so strong and don’t cry much, but when I was telling her my story about how I was ignoring him and he kept after me…I started breaking down on the phone to her because it all came back to me like it was yesterday…how he kept giving me his phone number…almost like a hypnotic gesture…he kept writing it in emails or Instant Messages and I can remember one day finally reaching for a post it note on my desk and writing his number down on this post it note almost as if I was in slow motion…hypnotized. I shudder even thinking about it! HOW do they do it???? HOW?? Do they read up on their techniques to perfect them? I will never figure it out. It’s so sad and tragic.
OMG…when you said that yours would actually look different physically…we all have talked about that on here and when I read your post above where you said that, I almost died. Mine was the same way…his face would actually look a different shape at different times…how is that possible?? SIGH. That has always made me think they are not really human; they can’t be. I told OW that I thought he was the devil in human form sent here to earth to harm me…no joke.
Well, I don’t know if I didn’t believe in love so much BEFORE the spath, but I sure don’t AFTER the spath. I just don’t and that is sad, but I can’t help it. Not just with him, but with everyone here and with friends I have seen, there is just too much junk and unhappiness out there. It is only a fairy tale in my book, but you know…you are right. I have it ALL…I have all the qualities to make a man happy…looks, brains, genuineness, caring, thoughtful, compassionate, no kids (baggage), know how to please a man in bed…I mean, what more could a man want, yet here I sit and will probably die alone because I am so jaded. Oh, well…only God knows what is meant for me; He has a plan for me and I just have to wait and see what that is.
Again, I am just so glad and you should be, too that you didn’t get closer to him…have sex with him. It really is harder when you realize you gave yourself to these creeps…that’s what gets me the most. I don’t do that…I really don’t and I did it with him. Yes, it was his charm. I forgot to mention that he is also English and the accent and his boyish “Beatles” charm is just too much. He even grew up in the same town the Beatles are from. It was all just too much. I think it was also the notion that someone like him in his position at work could be interested in me…wow, was I ever fooled. He has an uncanny way of making you feel like you are the best ever…it is truly unbelievable.
Don’t ever worry about rambling…that is how we heal.