“How did he really feel?” and “What did he want from me?” are two questions that often haunt victims of sociopaths. The reason we are haunted by these questions varies but often stems from the habit of over-focusing on the sociopath instead of ourselves. That being said, victims also have a healthy ”˜need to know’ that can help with recovery and healing.
I struggled with these questions in my own healing. I remain baffled by my observations of enjoyment of affection on the part of sociopaths. Early on, I told my own therapist that I had come to the conclusion that sociopaths exploit those close to them to the point of death, then, cry at the funeral. At the moment the tears are shed, I believe they do represent a grief of sorts. The feelings of loss experienced by sociopaths are however, short lived. Victims also have to beware because, although sociopaths are said to be incapable of feelings for those in their lives, they do become obsessed with them. Psychologists have not yet explained this obsession. If they don’t attach, why are they obsessed? Those who have read my other entries know that I believe that sociopaths do attach. It is what they do with attachments that is disordered.
How did he really feel?
In response to the picture of a sociopath crying at his victim’s funeral, my therapist said, “He feels what he tells himself he feels.” To help you understand what my therapist meant, I will explain what is known about how people usually experience feelings.
There are two components to feelings. The first is a physical sensation. When we experience a feeling we feel something in our bodies in relationship to that feeling. Think about loving someone close to you and sense how your body feels. Is it warmth in your heart? That is usually what people report.
There is much evidence that these physical sensations are disordered in sociopaths. Sociopaths do not generally experience the physical and hormonal changes that go along with feeling emotion. If they do experience them, it is to a lesser degree. Physical responses are blunted.
The second component of feelings is called attribution. Attribution is a cognitive process. When I feel that warmth in my heart as I see my children, I attribute the sensation to my love for them. Thus the physical sensation alone does not make emotion. Emotion is physical sensations and our interpretations of these sensations. There is also evidence that the parts of the brain responsible for attribution do not function properly in sociopaths.
There is one emotion that many sociopaths experience in a not so disordered way. This emotion is anger. Sociopaths do have blunted physical responses to anger. Despite this blunted responsiveness, they seem aware of angry feelings and make correct attributions about what makes them angry. Again, science has not even addressed, much less explained this observation.
Since the physical sensations and attributions that allow for the experience of emotion are disordered in sociopaths, their inner world is very different. They are left to make sense of themselves and others without the tools most of us use. Other parts of the brain fill in the missing processes. The person who is credited with first describing sociopathy in depth is Hervey Cleckley. He proposed that sociopaths are at least of average if not above average verbal intelligence. This makes sense because they have to use their verbal intelligence to make up for their lack of emotions. They do indeed feel what they tell themselves they feel. Scientists say they mimic other people’s emotions, yet again there is no real proof of this.
What did he want from me?
This question is easy to answer intellectually, but very hard for victims to accept emotionally. There are three pleasures we get from our love relationships. The first is pleasure in affection. The second is sexual pleasure. The third is pleasure associated with dominance and control. Sociopaths experience sex and dominance as enormously more pleasurable than affection. Therefore, they are in relationships to get sex and power, pure and simple.
If you love deeply and feel affection for others, you cannot fathom the inner world of an emotionally disordered person whose primary pleasures are sex and power. To understand another’s world you have to imagine yourself experiencing what the other experiences. You can’t do this with a sociopath.
Louise Gallagher said in her post The six steps of healing from a psychopath that the first step is acceptance. We have to accept that we can only know in part how sociopaths really feel and what they want from us. We can understand intellectually, but never emotionally.
2b,
“This above all: to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man.”
Polonius to Laertes
from Hamlet
Wm Shakespeare
2B,
That is such good news. I’m so glad that your daughter is safe at home with you again.
Do you think you’ll be able to convince her to get counseling with you? It would still be a good idea because her boyfriend is going to continue being a destabilizing factor. Anything you can do to help her learn how to set boundaries and hold her own values, would give her an advantage in the future. We can all use an advantage. At this point, because she ran away, you are still eligible for the counseling? Do whatever you can to take advantage of what has happened so far to get therapy for your family.
It was a warning that things needed fixing. Don’t let this opportunity slip by you. ((hugs))
2B
I wish you and your daughter the best and I hope that you two continue to make progress.
I agree with Skylar, I think if you can get counseling it would be good for you both.
2B, it’s wonderful to read about someone’s positive healing process. SO happy to read this, especially the hottub thing. Sort of like a sweat lodge, right? That’s wonderful!
And, I agree that counseling is in order. NOT to prove someone right/wrong/nuts/sane, but to provide coping techniques. I cannot reiterate this enough: engaging in counseling does not mean that a person is nuts or that there’s “something wrong” with them. Not ONE of us has “all of the answers,” and getting help to solve problems is a wise choice. I mean, if we have a structural problem with a building, we call an architect, right? Well, WHY is it so stigmatized to ask an emotional architect (counselor) to help us with a structurally emotional problem?
BIG HUGS and brightest blessings!
Thanks Everyone…I am still on a waiting list with the place I want to go to…..
Just glad that she is home and talking to me. She seems happier now. I am glad the communication is better with her.
Now I need to figure out my financial situation once again…
I was lucky to get the loan modification on my home…but it sucks living paycheck to paycheck.
I’ll figure something out….
HUGS to all.
2B, I am new to the blog, but very glad for you anyway! From what I’m reading here, it’s a success story! Best of luck to you and your daughter.
There are so many comments I want to respond to – such great stuff out here. I posted this morning, lifting passges out of a few folks’ comments and shared back, but when I copied from Word to here, I lost half of it and was already late for work…will try again tomorrow. So many good, helpful, thougtful people who really share and care here…I’m po’d that I lost my entry. You are all well appreciated.
To anyone reading this evening, have a great one!
Still…..Thank you.
I haven’t read any of your posts, but I plan to take the time soon to catch up. I like to give back when people give to me…and everyone on here has done more for me than words can say.
I was a victim of a sociopath…married one. He was professionally diagnosed. Then I got involved with a selfish man who I think is narcissistic but not necessarily a sociopath.
So, I am a SURVIVOR. I was able to heal from the pstd from the aftermath of these relationships. So, I can offer some advice…..
Hope to be able to get on here more.
HUGS
Going to try and re-create what I said yesterday.
2B-thx for your post. I’m not able to get online much either. I love this forum. Have only participated in one other and the core posters were scathing”not sure they weren’t all the same person. It was a terrible experience for me ”“ constant judging, not allowing for personal opinion, jumping all over me and others. At any rate, I let it upset me and finally, thank heavens, something made me just stop going out there to be abused. I say this because it characterizes the kind of sensitivity that ’paths love. They don’t have to jump any hurdles to get into a sensitive person’s soul and start working you from the inside out.
I was afraid to join this forum, but had an experience with a ’path at work and when I saw all the shockingly relevant experiences to mine, I decided to try. Instant acceptance and the hugest desire to give back.
Thanks for letting me know your story. I am ever so sorry for you or any of the others that have shared life with these monsters. I’ve caught shows like “Who the Bleep Did I Marry,” “Stalkers,” and other types of ’path related productions in the past because I found them interesting in the way I find Jeff Dahmer “interesting.” To be involved with someone like that in any way, is horrific. Once again, my hat is off to you for getting through this. Nice to meet you.
Silvermoon, your post is so very right on and so beautifully written. I am not young and every day that passes now, I realize if I think about Godzilla, I’m wasting it. For me, I have to understand that every situation cannot be tied up with a bow and an “Aha!” I have so many questions I want answered, even if they hurt me, yet I know if they came from him, they would be lies. There will be no answers and this is what’s so hard for me personally to face. I’m aware that there are folks out there in my situation, who have become involved with the ’paths, and once they realized they were being duped, conned, cajoled, etc., they decided it was a waste of time, became disinterested, maybe a little hurt or upset, then moved ahead. I am not like that. But I’m trying to be”once again, I only had a brainbath from Godzilla, I know most of you were sharing your lives with these creatures. I know they are sick”but I have no sympathy ”“ there will be no hiding behind that crap. They still know right from wrong. They don’t have to feel anything to know the facts and boy, if G-zilla was any indication, he was, as folks said above, definitely some type of savant.
Silvermoon, again, your comment needs to be read several times a day by all of us who question, yearn, even wonder a little”why, why, why—If he said this, he had to care!” He didn’t, NC has to rule and moving on has to occur. I want to see him. I still want to touch his hair, (never got to), I still want to hear his voice, (calmed me at times) but when I recall how cold, calculating and neglectful he was, I just shudder”it’s a constant struggle, and “yes, but” has to GO.
Ox, blown away, blown away by your story. What an incredible life. You are wonderful and blessed. I feel ripped apart when reading, hearing, watching the horrific conditions, the squalor, the waste of life, the misery, the disease that innocent people must encounter on a daily basis. It never really hit me until I got older and broke out of the entitled bubble of youth. My shame runneth over when I feel badly about how this piece of junk affected my life when I well know what is out there and how fortunate we are to be able to drink water, rather than standing in line all day to fill a jug with germ-laden swill. Sick kids who never asked to be born and have no one to take care of them”and I complain because an addle-brained moron flirted with me a little, then made a fool out of me. I LET him do that willingly and knew better. I allowed it because he was good-looking, the boss and I felt it was my last opportunity to be appreciated by someone like him. For the first time in my life, I put on blinders and only saw him. He was a distraction for me against all these things that plague my mind. It felt good, but it sure does not now. He gave so little, I gave everything I had, and he saw me as little more than a piece of dust to be flicked off his sleeve. F him. Ox, another read and re-read. I bow to you. As you said, we need to find our joy, wildflowers (I agree!! Love them!) even if best friend can’t understand why you don’t want to roll out a carpet of store-bought grass and flowers! Then we need to live it as the individuals we are, not in the shadow of a monster.
Skylar and Tspeak”so correct about the paths’ hidden violence and other traits that we can’t see. They invade your mind like a parasite and make you question everything. I know many of you did it and I surely did. I even apologized for not understanding his pain when he sat and lied in my face”sent him a note about how selfish I was being and I *meant* it. What I should have done was get up, spit on his head and walk out of that room. I knew he was going to be fired. He was so f’d up, he couldn’t do his job..I still do not know what really happened. Instead, I decided later that he was good to me many x, and even tho he treated me like a bag ’o sh*t most of the time, *he* was in the spotlight, as he was the one “losing everything” at the moment and I needed to apologize. He infiltrated my being, my good sense, my logic.
BTW, Skylar, I agree about Socioworld”I don’t like it at all and agree the article was inaccurate. Just wanted to see what folks thought about it. I went out there a few times and found it horrible depressing. Once is awhile there is a good article posted there but mainly a lot of ’paths fighting with each other and talking about how good life is “as” a path.
Thanks for more analysis of the dream”it’s interesting that you bring up the stix and stones saying. In the dream I received stix, stones and ugly words. And they all hurt. Actually in the waking world, I would have preferred ugly words from him instead of cryptic, unsettling phrases designed to protect his sorry a** or maybe he was just incapable of expressing himself. Who knows. What tres bothers me is that I remember *only* that dream and no others except one snippet of another dream about him. He infested my brain in a scary way and I don’t like it.
Truth, it’s interesting that you say that your monster touted himself as a writer but couldn’t express himself on paper. HAHA. That’s rich. If one can’t emote, how in the hell are they going to reach out through the written word. I don’t know”maybe some of them can, but wow, that’s a good pt. It reminds me of Godzilla who was unable to even write a one-liner to the dept”he said it took him an hour to get two sentences out and they were still so awkwardly stated. Brain fog, he said. And that I couldn’t imagine how difficult it was for him to write it.
This is the kind of stuff that can both get you in trouble and set you free. We know they are so incapable of anything close to human emotion or compassion or soul or conscience, so at times we feel sorry for them and think with “our” love, we can warm them enough to allow the feelings to the surface. That’s the trouble part. Realizing that that can’t happen because they are essentially missing a part of their brain or that it is just plain dysfunctional and not able to be repaired (like a totaled car) can set you free. Been said many times in many ways. But it’s what we need to believe and embrace as per Silvermoon, Ox and others. What is NOT there, can’t be re-built, replaced, injected. It’s the way they deliver the news that wreaks havoc, through phony baloney promises and vows of love and caring that they mimic from others. I guess”..and want to believe.
Hey, they’re sick dammit and who wants to be in a relationshit with them”(that cracked me up, too, Skylar!) Humor helps.
I blabbed too much”have a great day everyone!
Stillreeling, it’s great that you “blabbed!” Venting, ranting, philosphizing, etc…..it’s all an integral part of the healing process.
HUGS TO YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!
still reeling:
SIGH. I started crying when I read your post.
You said so much what I feel. Exactly how I feel…like how this worm infiltrated my head and I don’t know why…and how can I feel this bad over something that was such a short time while people and children are being abused, etc. It’s all so horrible.
When you said you wanted to touch his hair, that’s when I instantly started crying…out of nowhere. I want to do the same. And hear his voice…ahhhhh, imagine the soft, English accent that literally hypnotises you. Every time I think I am past this, all the feelings come rushing back like I have never healed at all. I am trying to be patient with myself and have finally accepted that I can’t accept it…if that makes any sense. I have finally realized that I feel how I feel and if it takes next to forever to get past this, I will, but in the meantime, it is what it is for me and I can’t change my feelings.
The triggers though are many. Just a few minutes ago, a friend contacted me to have lunch with her today. This is a friend I barely ever see. Of all days, I have my counseling appointment today around lunch time so I couldn’t meet her. When I asked her if we could meet tomorrow instead, she said yes and out of all the restaurants in the city, she suggests one where spath used to almost live. It was very close to his apartment when he was separated and so he pretty much lived at this place sitting at the bar. Even though I had never been to that particular restaurant (it’s a chain), I didn’t want to go there just knowing he had spent so much time there. A big trigger. At least I realize the triggers and know what to stay away from.
Again, please be glad you never slept with the jerk. Which brings me to another thing I was thinking about this morning. Sex with my spath just wasn’t normal. We have all talked about this on here before, but the more I think about it the more I realize it really was some type of deviation. I had never been with anyone like him…even though he was very affectionate, the actual lovemaking was very mechanical…he never made a sound (what guy does that??)…he did some weird things that I won’t say here…he had premature ejaculation (not sure if it was only because he was that extremely selfish or if it is truly a “problem”)…hmmmm, it’s making me wonder why I ever thought it was so great…haha! It really wasn’t, but only because I loved him so much did I think it was good. The one thing that was extraordinary with him was his kissing. Best ever!
Sigh, so I am not having such a good morning, but I will be OK as usual…I will trudge on…
Take care, still reeling…it takes time. They worm their way into our psyche and it’s hard to get them OUT!!