“How did he really feel?” and “What did he want from me?” are two questions that often haunt victims of sociopaths. The reason we are haunted by these questions varies but often stems from the habit of over-focusing on the sociopath instead of ourselves. That being said, victims also have a healthy ”˜need to know’ that can help with recovery and healing.
I struggled with these questions in my own healing. I remain baffled by my observations of enjoyment of affection on the part of sociopaths. Early on, I told my own therapist that I had come to the conclusion that sociopaths exploit those close to them to the point of death, then, cry at the funeral. At the moment the tears are shed, I believe they do represent a grief of sorts. The feelings of loss experienced by sociopaths are however, short lived. Victims also have to beware because, although sociopaths are said to be incapable of feelings for those in their lives, they do become obsessed with them. Psychologists have not yet explained this obsession. If they don’t attach, why are they obsessed? Those who have read my other entries know that I believe that sociopaths do attach. It is what they do with attachments that is disordered.
How did he really feel?
In response to the picture of a sociopath crying at his victim’s funeral, my therapist said, “He feels what he tells himself he feels.” To help you understand what my therapist meant, I will explain what is known about how people usually experience feelings.
There are two components to feelings. The first is a physical sensation. When we experience a feeling we feel something in our bodies in relationship to that feeling. Think about loving someone close to you and sense how your body feels. Is it warmth in your heart? That is usually what people report.
There is much evidence that these physical sensations are disordered in sociopaths. Sociopaths do not generally experience the physical and hormonal changes that go along with feeling emotion. If they do experience them, it is to a lesser degree. Physical responses are blunted.
The second component of feelings is called attribution. Attribution is a cognitive process. When I feel that warmth in my heart as I see my children, I attribute the sensation to my love for them. Thus the physical sensation alone does not make emotion. Emotion is physical sensations and our interpretations of these sensations. There is also evidence that the parts of the brain responsible for attribution do not function properly in sociopaths.
There is one emotion that many sociopaths experience in a not so disordered way. This emotion is anger. Sociopaths do have blunted physical responses to anger. Despite this blunted responsiveness, they seem aware of angry feelings and make correct attributions about what makes them angry. Again, science has not even addressed, much less explained this observation.
Since the physical sensations and attributions that allow for the experience of emotion are disordered in sociopaths, their inner world is very different. They are left to make sense of themselves and others without the tools most of us use. Other parts of the brain fill in the missing processes. The person who is credited with first describing sociopathy in depth is Hervey Cleckley. He proposed that sociopaths are at least of average if not above average verbal intelligence. This makes sense because they have to use their verbal intelligence to make up for their lack of emotions. They do indeed feel what they tell themselves they feel. Scientists say they mimic other people’s emotions, yet again there is no real proof of this.
What did he want from me?
This question is easy to answer intellectually, but very hard for victims to accept emotionally. There are three pleasures we get from our love relationships. The first is pleasure in affection. The second is sexual pleasure. The third is pleasure associated with dominance and control. Sociopaths experience sex and dominance as enormously more pleasurable than affection. Therefore, they are in relationships to get sex and power, pure and simple.
If you love deeply and feel affection for others, you cannot fathom the inner world of an emotionally disordered person whose primary pleasures are sex and power. To understand another’s world you have to imagine yourself experiencing what the other experiences. You can’t do this with a sociopath.
Louise Gallagher said in her post The six steps of healing from a psychopath that the first step is acceptance. We have to accept that we can only know in part how sociopaths really feel and what they want from us. We can understand intellectually, but never emotionally.
skylar:
I don’t know at this point what my parents did to me. This is all really making me think about things I never thought about before. Maybe what they did really did affect me and I just never realized it. My mom was controlling for sure, but she was a nice person. She really is sweet and always loved me. She was never and is not now devious. And my dad like I said was just a farmer who loved what he did. I don’t know…
I hate that yours were so devious and the story you told about how your mom acted after the car accident…oh, that was dreadful. It made me sad for you 🙁
still reeling:
Well, I have decided to keep going to therapy. I really do like this therapist. He is very good. Yesterday was my fifth time and he really is pulling things out of me and making me realize a lot of things. He is helping me to see my self worth again. It’s really expensive ($110 per hour) and he doesn’t accept insurance unless it’s EAP through work so I am paying out of my pocket, but it is worth it and I realized I can minimize the cost by going twice a month instead of every week. I also realize I won’t have to go to him forever so for right now, it is worth the sacrifice to get past the damage that those two psychos inflicted.
You actually made me think of something when you said Godzilla was a distraction for you. I know all the shit my spath has in his life. So not that I am making excuses for him, but it would make sense that HE was using all these women and being a predator to forget about all the crap in this life that HE can’t do anything about. I can see him using others as an escape from all the unhappy stuff in his life. That doesn’t make it right and he destroys people in the process, but it’s a possibility. Spaths don’t know how to deal with things so they just destroy people to make themselves feel better.
Funny what you said about your parents…I think you just described spath and his wife…she is very controlling and demanding and he is a passive alcoholic…I never saw my spath that way until you said it…but that’s what he basically is…a passive alcoholic who I think feels because he is controlled at home has to go out and be the controller in other areas of his life…at work and with all these women he scams!
It’s amazing to me how all these things we all experienced during our childhoods weave their web into our present lives and affects everything we do…especially the men we get involved with…so disheartening.
Hmmmm, yeah, communication…UGGHH. My spath doesn’t really know how to communicate either. I mean, he has to communicate all day long with his subordinates at work and has no problem telling them what they need to do and not do, but I think when it comes to women, he doesn’t have a clue. He has not communicated with me at all the way he should have and yeah, I will admit it’s because it was all about him and he controlled the relationship, but geez…just SAY what you need to say! SIGH. I’ll NEVER forget the day he told me that he “could see himself with me.” Imagine how that made me feel? He didn’t even want to tell me that. He turned his head away and mumbled something about how he had something to say, but didn’t know how to say it so he would just say it…then he said, “Could I see myself with you? Yes.” Of course I heard angels singing as I never thought he felt that way. BUT…was it true???? Who knows! They LIE so much!! And then of course his actions never matched his words. And yes, he is married so he wasn’t free to own up to his words and I understand that. It was all just an emotional, painful mess.
Oh, dear…how clever to equate the conversation to a resume scanner!!!!! Hahaha…how TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!! I love you, still reeling!!!!
Unholy? You better believe it.
First thing first: I love you 2, Louise! Kindred spirits..I can tell. Big hug for making my day. I’m glad you’re continuing therapy. Keep us posted on what happens. What does he think so far???
It is a possibility you were a distraction for BBoy but who the hell cares? That in no way excuses his behavior and I do see that you said that…just think about it when you hear a song or have a weak moment.
Yes, you, me everyone else involved with these manipulative beasts know that we do have to assume some responsibility for getting sucked in and staying involved, but as I’ve said many x, “they choose well.” At any rate, he and all the rest *know* that what they are doing is just plain wrong.
It’s funny because I was thinking about just that yesterday. They may be conscienceless, emotionless pigs but they oinkin’ *know* exactly what they’re doing, lest anyone feel sorry for *any* of them.
Let me throw this out….what would keep even the sickest of the lot from saying, “Hey, listen, Lousie or Truth or Skylar or any of us, I enjoy you and being with you. It’s fun, it’s sexy and I love your cooking. But here’s the deal, I kind of have a different way of looking at things than most people. (These dirtworms *know* what they are). I don’t get emotional, I don’t feel bad when bad things happen to others, I just don’t really *feel* much at all.” Or something like that. I’m sure this has happened and I know it could happen if they wanted it to. I suppose control is so important, they can’t show any weakness or a leak in their persona. Unfortunately, they can’t keep their finger in the dike forever and eventually they drown. But since I’m convinced, like a cat, they have 9 lives, they bounce back. I *know* Gzilla could have done this if he wanted to, he didn’t want to-not with me anyway. He would only say “I’m complicated,” when I told him he was acting in what I considered a psychotic way.
Have any of you experienced or know of any paths that owned up to the many holes in their brains?
Lousie, I hear you on the moment angels sang. I can only imagine. To tell you the truth tho, if Godzilla had said that to me I would have busted out laughing. He has so much baggage, forget it. But I do understand the moment. I know it’s diffcult for you because of the touch and affection. I know it would be for me….but their both giant maggots so just think about how they look on the inside. 2 yrs old and disgusting little prix.
Truthspeak, you said,
“Conversation” with an spath happens in two ways, I’ve noticed. Spath will be A: absorbing information accompanied with predatory stare, or B: talking OVER the other party to minimize their validity.
Mechanical, methodical, and deliberately malicious.”
You MUST know Godzilla. Describes him to the nth. And I guess most others with this frustrating, deal-breaking disease.
I sat and told him things about my husband being touch-phobic (as was his mom and some other siblings) and I’ll never forget how he just stared…I thought he was staring in horror and would say “Gosh, that’s awful…how could be not just want to hug you all night.” He wasn’t even listening. When I finished, he either went back to himself and his stuff or said he had a phone call. He used that damned cell whenever he was *done* with me. I’m sure if I had had sex with him, he would have taken a call or texted during the act (and act is a good word for it) esp if it was one of his girls. what a sack of sh*t.
One last word…did any of you see the movie “Being There.” I loved it.
“Chance, a simple gardener, has never left the estate until his employer dies. His simple TV-informed utterances are mistaken for profundity”
When I think of this movie, I think of paths. This guy was obviously without emotion of any kind of type and had nothing at all upstairs, however, he ended up in a situation where folks thought he was brilliant. As I think back on this hugely satirical movie, I see Godzilla and many of your paths in that they are completely hollow inside. They reflect as Chance did in response to how others acted on TV, then in real life. The movie made fun of these illusitrous, intelligent, wealthy people who “adopted” him and how they thought he was a brilliant, sexy, amazing person and he was just a huge simpleton with no personality and no brain power at all. I don’t think paths are much different, only in that they had the mental capacity to learn and then unleash their sorry a**es on the world.
Have a great day everyone.
Stillreeling, “Being There” is probably one of the most poignant movies, EVER. It speaks to perception – how someone’s perceptions can be altered by their own systems of belief. Chance’s illusions were innocent and unintentional – he didn’t have an agenda. Spaths, on the other hand, convolute perceptions as a means to an end. To get whatever it is that they want and will never have, they create their various illusions and FEELING human beings will perceive those illusions to be genuine human traits rather than the hoaxes that they are.
Personally, I have never seen spath admit their wrongdoing. Towards the end, when the exspath had terrorized me and refused to apologize, I told him straight up that he had never apologized for ANYTHING that he had done to hurt my feelings, neglect me, or ignore me – and, I asked him WHY he couldn’t apologize. He just stared at me with his mouth open. I responded to his silence, “You know, sociopaths can’t apologize, either.” This was before my discoveries and, yet, SOMETHING was finally kicking in to warn me of what he was.
Brightest blessings….
Louise, I think that spaths don’t “communicate” so much as speak words. They speak words that they deem appropriate for the moment, but they do not communicate on any genuine level. The more that I recall, the more I can clearly see that the “communications” were simply words – but, there is always something missing when “communicating” with spaths. There’s a definite lack or absence of depth – no true sense of inner self, I suppose. No real expression of emotions. Just parroting what they believe to be appropriate. And, in due time, this should come to light if we don’t end up rushing into whatever relationship the spath is attempting to cultivate with us.
Still reeling,
You said, ” but as I’ve said many x, “they choose well.”
And it’s absolutely true. After I had deleted the profile on my ex-spath I finally acknowledged and communicated with his girlfriend from London for a little bit. She had tried to contact me before to ask me why I was doing this (the profile) on the internet. And after I acknowledged her with an answer, she gave me some background info about herself and upbrinng. She seemed angry with both me and the spath… said we were both acting selfishly, and “revealed” what was so upsetting about it.
Her younger brother of 15 had discovered and read the profile and had acted very protective of her, and asked her whether he ever hit her and things like that. And she was concerned about her brother, because she saw her brother “reverting” back to his old self (which pained her)… Turns out, that this brother was fostered or adopted, and that her parents have both fostered and adopted children. (She’s 32 herself)
She was raised by parents who have or tried to SAVE children. In other words, she’s the perfect victim for my ex-spath. I’m quite sure she has a saviour complex. (Mine normally tends to go no further than to save KITTENS, and find a new owner for them or a shelter… The spath is the only human exception to that.)
I responded by telling her that a) I had nightmares for several months b) was in therapy for months c) still paying off a loan I had to take out to cover his irresponsible spending (behind my back) d) lost my job over the disfunctiong per post-trauma-stress e) still get triggered at times f) the devestation of losing the mythic belief that there’s good in everyone g) and having issues with intimacy ALL as a consequence of being in a relationship with the spath. I asked her whether, seen in that light, it then really was selfish of me when I knew I wasn’t the first victim and could see a long waiting line of victims in the future to try and leave something on the internet for that long line of future victims to find if they ever had the smarts to do a background check on him.
The result was that SHE apologized to me (which she didn’t needed to do imo), felt bad for me that I had been going through so much shit and how she knew me never to be selfish (the rational part of me thought, “You DON’T know me LITERALLY to say this and yet believe it” Not that she’s wrong about me, but well she has hardly any info on me to make such a conclusion). She said she had overreacted to me because she was just protective of her brother. Heck she was totally empathic to me. She also said she didn’t condone in any way what he had done to me.
So the woman he dumped me for is extremely empathic (be a victim in her mind and she can think nothing ill of you) and she has a saviour complex… and on TOP of that she compartmentalizes, because she does truly believe he treated me ill, because she wants to protect her brother from finding out that she may be with a VERY wrong person, but he “never hit her” and she’s still with him (he never hit me either, and as I said, it’s what he says to sell himself).
We have a saying a person who is the perfect victim… “a bird for the cat”.
When I told my mom about this woman’s background, that’s what she said, “He PERFECTLY knows who to pick to abuse.” They ALL do!
Darwinsmom,
There are many cultures where hitting women is “normal”. Hispanic cultures are such. As are muslim cultures. Not that all men do it, but those who do are not considered abberations. they are not shunned, or ostracized.
So a man who doesn’t hit his wife, is considered a GREAT CATCH! Why wouldn’t he advertise himself that way?
Isn’t humanity great?
I took control away from the roadshow and gave it back to myself by not ‘forgiving’ but ‘relinquishing’ and not giving up, per se, but ‘surrendering’. I mean, nothing I can ever say or do can ever give me back the ten years I have had raped from me. But I can give MYSELF THIS EXACT MOMENT, RIGHT HERE AND NOW, by laying down my defense and going to that grey rock area.
THAT is where I am. There is no more dissent if I just give up.
Period. I have a little life LEFT and I intend to live it in peace before I go.
You CAN get away from it without ‘forgiving’.
Perhaps, in time, GOD will allow me such grace.
Dupey
love it, Dupey. Very, very powerful.
Wishing you good health, healing and peace of mind.
still reeling:
Oh, yeah, they know what they are doing is wrong, but they are driven like a machine out of evil or some kind of maniacal bent. When I think about how stupid I was…wow.
I wonder if what you said above is why mine said, “I’m different.” I’ll never forget it…it was right before we were intimate for the first time and we were sitting on his couch in his apartment when he said it. It’s the one thing that always haunts me…what did he mean? I didn’t ask. I became kind of speechless when I was around him…I didn’t say a whole lot…he did all the talking. Which also leads me to say that he said to me, “I don’t know anything about you.” Now I get it…he wasn’t really able to mirror me because I wasn’t telling him anything really about myself…I was very mysterious and he told me so. I think that’s why I was dumped…he couldn’t identify my weaknesses and con me further. Very interesting.
I have not seen the movie, “Being There.” I love movies and have never even heard of it. I want to see it now!