“How did he really feel?” and “What did he want from me?” are two questions that often haunt victims of sociopaths. The reason we are haunted by these questions varies but often stems from the habit of over-focusing on the sociopath instead of ourselves. That being said, victims also have a healthy ”˜need to know’ that can help with recovery and healing.
I struggled with these questions in my own healing. I remain baffled by my observations of enjoyment of affection on the part of sociopaths. Early on, I told my own therapist that I had come to the conclusion that sociopaths exploit those close to them to the point of death, then, cry at the funeral. At the moment the tears are shed, I believe they do represent a grief of sorts. The feelings of loss experienced by sociopaths are however, short lived. Victims also have to beware because, although sociopaths are said to be incapable of feelings for those in their lives, they do become obsessed with them. Psychologists have not yet explained this obsession. If they don’t attach, why are they obsessed? Those who have read my other entries know that I believe that sociopaths do attach. It is what they do with attachments that is disordered.
How did he really feel?
In response to the picture of a sociopath crying at his victim’s funeral, my therapist said, “He feels what he tells himself he feels.” To help you understand what my therapist meant, I will explain what is known about how people usually experience feelings.
There are two components to feelings. The first is a physical sensation. When we experience a feeling we feel something in our bodies in relationship to that feeling. Think about loving someone close to you and sense how your body feels. Is it warmth in your heart? That is usually what people report.
There is much evidence that these physical sensations are disordered in sociopaths. Sociopaths do not generally experience the physical and hormonal changes that go along with feeling emotion. If they do experience them, it is to a lesser degree. Physical responses are blunted.
The second component of feelings is called attribution. Attribution is a cognitive process. When I feel that warmth in my heart as I see my children, I attribute the sensation to my love for them. Thus the physical sensation alone does not make emotion. Emotion is physical sensations and our interpretations of these sensations. There is also evidence that the parts of the brain responsible for attribution do not function properly in sociopaths.
There is one emotion that many sociopaths experience in a not so disordered way. This emotion is anger. Sociopaths do have blunted physical responses to anger. Despite this blunted responsiveness, they seem aware of angry feelings and make correct attributions about what makes them angry. Again, science has not even addressed, much less explained this observation.
Since the physical sensations and attributions that allow for the experience of emotion are disordered in sociopaths, their inner world is very different. They are left to make sense of themselves and others without the tools most of us use. Other parts of the brain fill in the missing processes. The person who is credited with first describing sociopathy in depth is Hervey Cleckley. He proposed that sociopaths are at least of average if not above average verbal intelligence. This makes sense because they have to use their verbal intelligence to make up for their lack of emotions. They do indeed feel what they tell themselves they feel. Scientists say they mimic other people’s emotions, yet again there is no real proof of this.
What did he want from me?
This question is easy to answer intellectually, but very hard for victims to accept emotionally. There are three pleasures we get from our love relationships. The first is pleasure in affection. The second is sexual pleasure. The third is pleasure associated with dominance and control. Sociopaths experience sex and dominance as enormously more pleasurable than affection. Therefore, they are in relationships to get sex and power, pure and simple.
If you love deeply and feel affection for others, you cannot fathom the inner world of an emotionally disordered person whose primary pleasures are sex and power. To understand another’s world you have to imagine yourself experiencing what the other experiences. You can’t do this with a sociopath.
Louise Gallagher said in her post The six steps of healing from a psychopath that the first step is acceptance. We have to accept that we can only know in part how sociopaths really feel and what they want from us. We can understand intellectually, but never emotionally.
I think I know why I suffered my painful path experience…..to find this forum. The strength of each of you; the will to live life to the fullest in spite of immensely dire obstacles and past horror is awe-inspiring at the very least.
Again, I feel so honored and lucky to have found this group of outstandingly courageous and loving people.
Dupey, please if nothing else, read and re-read and absorb the love and bravery and strength. If it’s all you do, light that candle, jump into a bath, and read, read, re-read.
Enormous hugs to all, may you continue to light your own lives and those of the people whose lives you touch.
Dupey
you sent your love to me all the way from California to Scotland and told me to “hang in there” well I still need you. Do you hear me? I am blessed with good children as you are and they are your gifts to this world (do you remember when they were born?) you are special to them too.
Speak to Star……… and know that we care.
still reeling:
I saw a picture of spath’s daughter on the Internet through Google Plus (it’s kind of like Facebook I guess) and oh, dear…her eyes. She looks just like her dad and we have talked on Love Fraud in the past about reptilian type eyes (this is before you came on board). Oh, I am not kidding…her eyes literally popped off the screen at me! It was the weirdest experience. They are dead eyes…I mean DEAD. There is nothing behind those eyes and it is sooooo sad. She is only about 13 1/2. I am convinced that she is like him.
the wisdom and love of the people/ posters shine through in these posts to duped. i am inspired, humbled and grateful.
duped, i vote for sky’s ‘just because’. you have said so much and i wouldn’t even know where to start a response. I know so much of your thinking IS the depression, and i know that I can’t listen to mine when it comes, ’cause its full of crap, so i don’t want to talk to yours – it needs to not be fed.
i have seen my darkest hours in the last three years. i feel the spath stole my future. i lost my health, my mind, my trust and love of people, my friends, my family, my sense of self…and more. loss after loss after loss. I lost my innate life drive. i could see no reason to get up, try, nothing…blank wall. i sat in it, immersed (i had no choice, it seemed), and somehow it changed. it passed. the pain came, the losses hit me, and hit me. and in the next months, i relied on welfare, food banks and charity, and thought about how i might have to move into the park in winter.
but, IT FUCKING CHANGED!! i understand that serious health issues change everything. i spend a lot of time worried about the future and health. i am not in a good way, and in am just starting toward the time in my life where it becomes more and more challenging physically. I obsess. I have suicide in my back pocket (i don’t want to die my Mom’s death – hereditary dementia, and living with that fucktard, my n father) and I am going to keep it there as long as I need it – but it’s in my DAMN BACK POCKET, not the front. the more joy and happiness i feel, the more I need it there. because life and loss are intimately entwined, because life IS suffering (and that’s buddhism and not depression talking). I am a sack of fear. but i know this. and every tiny victory that walks me away from that is a massive movement toward the light. people let me down all the time. doctors, ex friends, co workers – there aren’t a lot of people in my life. But, there is the wind, and the sun and spring is here, and ‘just because.’ i know, from dealing with the spath’s fake character who i loved, that i believe in life. just because. i also reserve the right to check-out. but it’s only a reservation, and i hope it stays that way.
suicide is power over shit. that’s why i keep it with me. i just want power in my life, in my mind, in my health. i can’t/ don’t have all that. but THAT is what i want. suicide is an option – but it’s only about power and feeling powerless.
depression is shit. i deal with anxiety. ptsd. both are getting better. it’s work. i am tired. i am lazy. i get fed up. i have setbacks. fucking endless work. but, even though an intake worker said i was depressed – i don’t believe him (i have anxiety and a raft of other things) maybe i am chronically depressed – who knows, but i have been depressed in the past and it sure isn’t what i am experiencing now. i can’t take SSRI’s. Made me nuts. they aren’t the right drugs for everyone. they CAUSE suicidal ideation for some people.
depression LIES. lies lies lies…just like a spath. it has it’s own agenda – just like a spath. they both sucked the life out of me at different times.
but, the spath is gone from my outer world. i am working on staying present and in the present. i am working on my food addiction. i am working on the shitpile of fear that eats me. i am working on my health (a long, fucking tedious and possibly irrelevant process). i am spending a bit more time with people socially. i am trying to deal with the shitpile of fear that i constantly sovel from one area of my life to the next. (can’t say this one enough!) communicating what i want need and feel fucking terrifies me often, and some days i am just crap at it. i am terrifed that people will hit me with the shovel; that i am not this or that ‘enough’.it’s very undermining. but i have these small victories. i am trying to reclaim a life. i stumble along. i am tired. i am learning to rest a bit. if i had money and health i would feel i had enough time and resources…but, that’s not the hand i am playing right now. it’s something else – it’s survival. and it’s feeling the sun on my face and the wind in my rapidly whitening hair. that shit’s free and IT’S MINE!!
I spent four hours tonight talking with someone on the suicide hotline and although my feelings haven’t changed much, at least I was ‘preoccupied’ for a while. There was something like 12 people who joined in on the chat and I am sure they were all certified people, in some way or another. I was asked to divulge information such as names and locations of the psychopath in my life which I did not do. I am not out to make trouble or cause waves, but I have been out to protect and defend myself and my safety. They wanted to know ‘where’ this person was and his name. Imagine that.
The FBI (from what I have been told) is heavily ‘on’ to him now and in fact, one of the last conversations we had, he divulged to me that they had contacted him already and aren’t very pleased with him at all. Imagine that. It must have something to do with his threats towards several agencies, policing and otherwise.
Yes, folks, a real live psychopath, just like in the movies!
Imagine that.
ANAM CARA: My love still comes to beautiful Scotland from the left coast of America. I am hanging on; barely, but still here. I think it’s the anticipation of ‘what comes next’ that is helping me to hang on, although my soul and my insides are dying, in every sense of the word.
LOUISE: You are more beautiful than the misery you are confronting. REBUKE IT and realize your worth and your value. Your light is a beacon of hope to the world. Don’t surrender that for ONE when you have so much to benefit THE MANY.
LOVE TO YOU ALL WHO HAVE RESPONDED TO ME in my psychotic episode. Hopefully there won’t be another, but I am told suicidal tendencies comes in waves. Where one moment you are fine and suddenly, it rolls over you again. It’s not the fear of dying, it’s the uncertainty of when and not being able to control those impulses. If anyone else has ever been to that edge, you know what I am talking about. One minute you seem fine and the next you are jumping off a building. It happens that fast. I have to keep myself locked away and ‘control’ myself, just like we all have choices, but I don’t seem to have many choices left these days.
All you beautiful people on Love Fraud have been my only Grace and kindness and love and understanding thus far in this horrid experience from hell. Don’t ever stop shining your light for all the world to see.
Dupey
Wow, you got someone to talk to you for 4 hours and 12 people joined in??? You must be very magnetic! lol The most I ever got was one person for about 10 minutes, and they rarely ever said anything helpful. Is the universe pulling for you or what??
Yes, when life seems meaningless, you can choose to live….just because.
XOXO
Star
Star,
that’s just because you’re not very good with your story!
😉
my spath called the suicide helpline and talked for about 2 hours. I saw the phone records that’s how I know how long.
He convinced them that I was suicidal and they sent the cops to my parents’ house where I was living.
one/joy: “THANK YOU”. I understood every word you said and I thank you for reaching that gut level with me. It means more to me than you will ever know.
This path we walk is not an easy one but it isn’t even the hard/easy part that is the issue anymore. Like you said: it is SURVIVAL at this point.
Yes, keeping that option in the back pocket is something that gives ME control over what happens to me. I am not doing well either these days. SPATH raped the past ten years of my life from me, the years that were the last BEST I had to give and not only did “IT” shit on those years, he laughed as he walked away…
I completely can and do understand your post one/joy and I thank you so much for letting me know you understand me.
It has nothing to do with any addiction to the lack of spaths drama. It has everything to do with meeting my mortality and trying to unwind the confusions inside my mind, that I seriously don’t think I shall ever be able to unwind. PTSD has taken a hold of my life so much so, I can’t even explain the experiences to myself anymore. Perhaps growing older and finding those holes in my thought process isn’t such a bad fate, after all. I admit though, they sure do take time getting used to.
Just last week, I actually had to sit down with a paper and pencil and figure out how old I actually am. Imagine that. Not too long ago, I could do these things inside my head. It isn’t good. My cardiologist told me that I had the option of ceasing all medications, when and if I ever so choose. I advised him that there will be no more surgeries unless I am unconscious to the point where I can’t make that decision for myself, at which time, HE can decide whether there is a point to continue with any and all advanced life support (ALS). But, I don’t want to ‘live’ on breathing and feeding tubes.
Somehow you know when you have that conversation with your own physician, that you aren’t too far away and sometimes I want it to be on MY TERMS. There will be no more surgeries, which only will torture me some more and prolong the inevitable.
Thank you for responding to me one/joy, my love and thoughts and prayers are with you.
Dupey
Louise Gallagher asks:
“How did he really feel?” and “What did he want from me?”
I finally have the answer to these questions:
He felt duper’s delight. He wanted to be me, but settled for not letting me have my being. He wanted the power of me.
There may be more layers under that, layers that even he is not aware of. But if he was able to answer honestly what he was conscious of feeling, I know it’s just the glee of having pulled one over on me. I “deserved it” and he thinks it’s funny.
Wanting what I have means wanting EVERYTHING that makes me be me. I knew instinctively when I left him, that if I had a million dollars and gave him 999,999.00, he’d come back for that last dollar. It would eat at him to leave me with the desire to live, much less with a $1.00 bill.
That’s why we can’t have contact with them. They know exactly how to take away our desire to live. They are experts at manipulation, working their magic inside of us, even when we aren’t aware of it.
The slime is sticky, hard to remove. Best to avoid it.
Star: yes, I am very honored someone would spend that much time with me. They helped me hang on for a while but when I was explaining the spath and all of those occurrences, suddenly, I found a great mass of interest. Imagine that.
I am grateful.
LOL@skylar: “Duper’s Delight”. That’s a good way to put it too.
GIVE ME A CHANCE TO PROFILE. That’s all “I” got to say….
You are right skylar: they DO know how to take away our desires to live. They ARE experts at manipulation.
You are right skylar: the slime is almost impossible to remove.
They need to have ‘warning’ signs stapled to their foreheads.
Dupey