Editor’s note: The following guest post was written by Bruce Rubenstein, M.D., a psychiatrist based in New York City.
Knowing how I know myself, and others ”¦
By Bruce Rubenstein, M.D.
Introduction
In this piece, when referring to psychopaths, sociopaths, the personality disordered, malignant narcissists, etc, I shall refer to them as pronouns in italics, as I believe they are all one and the same on a continuum. The various widely used terms to designate them (e.g., sociopath, malignant narcissist, etc.), mostly all clinical in derivation, all carry with them associations and assumptions of which I believe much is incorrect and misleading. So rather than evoking those associations, I will just use italicized pronouns as a stylistic way to separate them from us.
Knowing
In the journey to understand ourselves and them, and in order to heal from relationships with them, one must go through an anguishing process of re-evaluating everything we thought to be true. We must transcend the chaos and confusion they infused through manipulation and distortion in order to attain clarity using our rational minds. As one very wise person who grew up with them as parents once remarked about the healing process: “Start with the head; the heart will catch up later.” We want to understand the TRUTH, but it is crucial to take a moment to contemplate how we know things. At first glance, the question may seem abstract and overly philosophical. However, it is not. Take a moment to think about your experiences with them. Once you thought you knew them. Now you know them differently. Which is the TRUTH? The answer is in understanding “how” we know things. In philosophy, this is called epistemology. Others study how we know things in the fields of consciousness, psychology and neuroscience. Let’s focus on two closely related aspects of how we know things.
The first is what we REALLY mean when we say, “I know.” What we REALLY mean is that we’ve made something or someone familiar to us. In other languages, there are distinct verbs that convey this difference: French connâitre or Spanish conocer”—to be familiar with,” such as a person, versus French savoir or Spanish saber, meaning “to know” intellectually. Thus, when we encounter something or someone new, we will frequently use metaphor or simile, both ways of relating “new” to “familiar.” The first time you taste rabbit, for example, you might say, “It tastes just like chicken” (“rabbit” is new; “chicken” is familiar). Or, perhaps you might be walking down a Parisian street and comment, “This is sublime.” Here too you are relating something new, i.e., the sentient experience whilst walking in Paris, with a feeling with which you are already familiar: sublimity. So, too, of encounters with others. Upon perceiving various aspects of someone’s personality, you will frequently relate your responses to something familiar to you and then over time have the sense that you “know” that person. We all do it, but it is worthwhile to take a few moments to appreciate how frequently we take something/someone new, make it familiar to us, and then say to ourselves, “I know it,” or “I know him/her.”
The process by which we relate something or someone to the realm of familiarity is a product of consciousness. Consciousness is the state of being aware of what we are perceiving as opposed to other animals that, to the best of our knowledge, do not have consciousness. Whilst awake, we “live” in our conscious minds almost always. Ninety-nine percent of the time, after we perceive something, we “translate” it into something our consciousness understands. Here is a critical point: Our consciousness understands thoughts and their representation—words or symbols. We are quite sophisticated in that we have the ability to combine many words and many thoughts and string them together into theories, basic assumptions, narratives, and so on.
But this realm of consciousness is quite limited for several reasons. First, there is a limit to how many “things” it can contemplate and put together at one time. Let’s use a flower as an example of something we are contemplating. When we contemplate that flower in any one moment in time, there are lots of things going on in the roots, stem, petals, etc. In the non-visual realm, photosynthesis and metabolic processes are occurring. Our conscious brain, however, cannot “think” about everything going on in that flower at one time. We focus on one thing or the other, despite the fact that the actual flower’s existence is not broken down into parts—it is a complete, whole being. Our conscious mind’s process of breaking things down into parts thus creates an artificial sense of what the flower truly is. Of course, we can acknowledge this point but in truth, our limited conscious mind cannot contemplate the entire or whole existence of the flower at one point in time.
Moreover, even the notion of “time” is a product of the limitations of consciousness. For example, we cannot “think” about a flower’s entire lifecycle all at once: sprouting, growing, blooming and then fading. We break it down into chunks of time. But in reality, that flower’s “real existence” is not broken down into arbitrary or artificial time segments. It’s a continuum of life.
[To imagine what it would be like to not exist “consciously,” think about dreaming. In dreams everything is all jumbled. You are everyone in your dream and everyone is you. Time is relative. In the dream you had last night, perhaps you crossed the country in one minute. Perhaps you were in one place with one group of people and in the very next moment, you were somewhere else with entirely different people.]Memory and concentration studies bear out this point by demonstrating that we can only reliably think about roughly six to eight things at one time. We have known this for quite some time, and it is the reason that your telephone number has seven digits. The telephone company did studies back in the 1950s to see how many digits an individual could remember as one “phone number” and the ideal number was seven. (Please remember that it was before area codes. In those days, if you wanted to phone a different “area code,” you’d have to phone the operator.) Today some countries, like France, have instituted eight digit numbers. However, the ideal number of digits is seven.
But life’s challenges obviously involve much more than recalling seven digits. We deal with more input or perception by creating “buckets” or “categories” in our minds. An example: living things. We have created “buckets” like animals, plants, micro-organisms, etc. But if you really think about it, no such buckets exist in nature, in reality. We simply categorize things in order for us to consciously digest them. An analogy might be our digestive systems—we eat “food,” but then break it down into “chunks” (i.e., fats, amino acids, etc.) that are digestible.
It’s crucial to consider this, to consider our own limitations. And consider the fact that each person will probably create different “buckets,” depending on that person’s nature, experiences, etc. For example, someone who is quite concrete and overwhelmed by too many choices will create fewer buckets, possibly even only two buckets, like “Good and Bad,” or “Pretty and Ugly.” The more buckets, though, the more variation based on individual factors. For example, you may have had a talk and shared your experience of them with a friend who is very concrete and never had such an unfortunate experience. That talk was probably unsatisfying and frustrating because your friend puts people into two buckets: “Good” and “Bad.” But after your terrible experience, you now know that it’s not quite so simple. You now have several buckets with varying degrees of “goodness” and “badness.” And not to complicate it even further, but consider the fact that nearly all those who read Lovefraud, and who have had similar experiences, likely have slightly different buckets. Therefore, the important point here is to keep in mind that we create buckets in order to be able to think about things in a distilled form.
As things get more complex, we create different levels or strata of buckets. This is where we get into organizing principles, theories, ways to see the world, and particularly how we experience other people. But these systems of buckets must change over time as we observe things that don’t “fit” with our underlying assumptions, our underlying “buckets.” As one example, Freud created an enormously complex theoretical base to explain all of human mental life and behavior. Frankly, it’s nearly impossible to integrate what we observe about them into Freud’s ideas. Hard core Freudians will go to great lengths to make this square peg fit into one of Freud’s round holes. The reason is that we get very attached to our basic assumptions. That’s human nature, to prefer the “known,” the “familiar,” or to stay in our comfort zone. And the more elaborate that base theoretical construct is, the more we can manipulate it and convince ourselves that it really does explain everything. I’m not picking on Freud, although his theory is quite elaborate. I could have chosen any theoretical approach to understanding human nature, e.g., object relations, Jungian theory, even what they call “strict neuroscience,” looking at neurons and neurotransmitters.
One more important point on consciousness—it tends to either exclude or metaphorize any perception that cannot be put into a thought or word. Thus, everything that deals with intuition is immediately either dismissed or shoved into another construct. But intuition is very real. Think about how many aspects of them you perceive and then make you say to yourself, “What the hell is this?” Well, so much of what we see in them is utterly irrational, unthinkable and indescribable. Our conscious mind, that “tool” we use to think about EVERYTHING, including ourselves and others, doesn’t do well in the realm of irrationality. What then drives us crazy is that despite the irrational nature of their behavior, they all behave in a similar, predictable manner (i.e., lying, cheating, etc.). That is one reason that trying to understand them is so crazy making. The fact that you can predict and observe consistent behaviors in them suggests a cause-effect or rational template to them. We “should” be able to create “buckets” to understand. But it’s NOT rational. Rather, we have all of these other observations about them—those that are more “intuitive,” but for which we lack the words or we lack the ability to incorporate those perceptions in our “rational” conscious mind. The result is confusion—that anguishing confusion every person experiences after interaction with them.
No matter which basic assumptions or theories you use, even a combination of theories, understanding them and how we get involved with them is elusive. We don’t realize how much of our thinking is based on years and years and years of all sorts of basic assumptions, or “buckets,” that we automatically invoke in order to understand or make them familiar to how we are USED to thinking about ourselves, others, goodness and even evil. You may not even have had an “evil” bucket at all. Trying to fit the square pegs of our observations of them into our pre-existing round holes requires far too much time and energy. The healing process, therefore, involves the very difficult and frequently anguishing journey of getting rid of pre-existing “buckets” and creating new ones. By the way, one could call this process, “Personal Growth” or the “Search for Truth.”
As I mentioned at the beginning, the healing process necessarily requires achieving clarity using our rational minds. It is thus helpful to begin with only two buckets, and they are:
1) This makes sense
2) This doesn’t make sense
At first this simple binary delineation may prove harder than you think. This is because you are so used to your old “buckets” that you will find yourself tempted by them. Try to resist the temptation. Try to tolerate the discomfort of not knowing “right now.” To quote a colleague of mine, the process is “tolerating discomfort for the sake of growth.” Over time it will get easier. But even initially, you will begin to feel a certain freedom that will arise as a result of you beginning to trust yourself again. At the core, all good people have good instincts.
There is another important point to make in this regard: Never throw out a perception, even if it doesn’t make sense right now. Many people run into problems by equating a perception that doesn’t make sense with something that is not true. For example, one frequently hears, “I loved him/her.” That observation will go into bucket #2: “It doesn’t make sense to love someone who is not reciprocal, who is hurting me.” But it doesn’t mean it is not true, rather, it doesn’t make sense now. As an alternative, spend some time thinking about what it means when we say, “I love someone.” It turns out it can mean many things to many people. Then keep the observation (“I loved him/her“) on hold. Don’t discard it as not true just because now it isn’t making sense to you. Allow for the possibility that it doesn’t make “rational” sense right now, but at one time it did make sense. It doesn’t change the reality of your clearer mind today that it doesn’t make sense. You can come back to it later. In the meanwhile, without you even noticing, you are learning to be more accepting of what you do not “know,” or of what is not familiar to you. Clearly mistreating others should NEVER be familiar to you. Learning to accept that which we do not understand right now is not only crucial to healing, but also exigent to what it means to be most human throughout our lives. Patience and acceptance bring peace.
Postscript
After letting the ideas presented here percolate for a while, it may be clear to you why I use the “buckets” of italicized pronouns (e.g., he, she, them) rather than using terms such as sociopath, narcissist, etc. Even the way in which we write or read about them is part of how we “know” them.
pernicious – spaths, regardless of gender, use whatever is at hand to exercise power over others. that ‘dads’ are destroyed would have no more meaning than if ‘moms’ were destroyed. i am sure there are instances when a spath has it in for a particular gender, but generally, we are ALL just collateral damage in their quest.
there are many people here who are dealing with female spaths. some in ‘love’ relationships, some with family. there are also folks dealing with same sex spath ‘love’ relationships. there is variety in all configurations.
from reading and posting here for a year, the trend i see is that spaths have more in common with one another in how they express their disorder, than with the normative roles of their genders.
Dear Perniciousfamilycourts,
I am going to call you “dad” if you don’t mind, in future exchanges. I totally agree with everything you have said, and I for one am so GLAD that you are here.
I wish there were more men here, and I agree that the “labeling” of men vs women in the PPD vs BPD is off kilter for sure. I wish that it was better, but unfortunately at this time, the professional community doesn’t yet agree of WHAT the definition OR the name should be. This is changing, but much more slowly than I would wish.
PERSONALITY DISORDERED, I think should be the category and then Maybe “sub types” if they thought they needed them, but over all I think most PERSONALITY DISORDERS, may have some particular symptoms different, but in all they are pretty much the SAME with a few different aspects, but the bottom line is PERSONALITY DISORDERED, and UNchanging over all. NOT easily treatable (if at all) and with some genetic as well as environmental components.
I am sorry that your son is distanced from you, and he may be ADHD (which is something often found along with personality disorders. He may be ADHD with or with out the tendency to also be personality disordered himself.
I have a PPD son (In prison for murder) and I have a son who is ADHD but not PPD, and actually I am somewhat hyperactive myself, and my paternal DNA donor was both ADHD and PPD and extremely violent. He did not raise me though, and I actually didn’t get to know him until I was late teens. I have experience both personally in raising an ADHD child, being hyperactive myself, and I am a retired advanced practice nurse who worked with psych patients as well, including ADHD kids, psychopaths, borderlines, mentally ill, etc. so have some experience in many different aspects of it. I feel strongly that we NEED the male view points here on LF so I hope you will stick around.
My PPD son in prison was an “ideal child” pretty much til puberty when he morphed into a violent criminal (without even being a drug addict).
I hear your frustration about the relationships with your children and the treatment you have gotten in the courts, and there are others here who have been “raped” by the system as well as by their psychopathic co-parent.
I hope you will stay around here and post and comment! There is a lot of great stuff here, but I think we need a more diverse point of view, and the male one is one in which we lack numbers!@....... Thanks for sharing.
“……..spaths have more in common with one another in how they express their disorder, than with the normative roles of their genders.”
onestep: I sure agree with that statement! They understand one another!
PerniciousFC,
I think that no one here will disagree with anything you said.
A spath is a spath is a spath and like onestep said, they use WHATEVER is at hand to create a hell on earth. If they are short, they’ll bite you on the ankle, if they are tall they’ll bite your neck.
A female spath does often “fly under the radar” better than a male spath, they are very subtle as they target your vulnerable emotional spots. My own exP was an amazing combination of the female and male spath-abilities. His display of sweetness and compassion was on constantly with his love of animals and tenderness.
But he could turn into a manly tough guy real fast. He is not a real anything. He will have sex with either sex, but prefers children. There is no real him. The depth of his emptiness is forever.
It is sad that men have trouble writing here about their experience with spaths. I’m so glad that you and a few other men feel comfortable doing so. I think you can add a new dimension of understanding to our knowledge.
So sorry about the custody problems you are having. You know the drill: show no emotion, be gray rock. EVERYTHING they do is just to make you suffer. If you show emotion, you only feed the craving.
SHOW NO EMOTION, ACT BORED AND BE BORING. Soon you will see opportunities to get what you want, but only by hiding what you want in the first place. They are very stupid and can’t imagine what a real person wants, they test and they watch your face for reactions in order to perceive what you want, THEN THEY MAKE SURE YOU DON’T GET IT. For this reason, they can be easy to fool. Just show no emotion or show the wrong ones.
Hi TB,
Nice to see you.
Dr. R said, “How can any normal individual conceive of existing as that type of deception for all that time? It reflects a profound, dark emptiness in them. What kind of “bucket” can we have to make that kind of emptiness “familiar” to us? ”
I got me a bucket for that, yes I do.
Think about how we felt when we realized the depth of our betrayal, the moment of profound sadness and then the rage, the fear, the disintegration of our world. Remember the feeling that life was unfair and that this should not have happened to you because you did not deserve to suffer like this. Remember the outrage when the cops and the courts sided against us and for them. Remember how you feel each time they rape and pillage us. THAT is how they feel ALL THE TIME. That’s why it’s called SLIMING US. They want us to feel these things, because THEY feel it. They are intimately aquainted with these feelings. They have obsessed with these feelings for so long that they no longer have room for any other feelings. THAT is the choice they made. They chose to wallow in whatever narcissistic injury first began the vicious cycle and then they created their own hell on earth. It’s a feeling of deep bitterness.
That’s why it’s so important for us to “not take it personally” and step back and see it for what it really is. Like vampires, they want us to become them, angry and bitter as they strip us of everything that could make us happy: money, pride, energy, youth and our dreams. We simply need to refuse to be bitter because we don’t feel entitled to those things. The book of Job was very inspiring for me on this matter. The very end conversation that God has with Job was the most enlightening. Gratitude for what we still have and the humility to acknowledge that we don’t know everything, is what can save us. Gratitude and humility is what the spath lacks and it’s why he is a spath.
I too believed all my life that there is good in everyone you just have to find it. We are all Gods children we were all born innocent. Life is what we make it. What goes around comes around.All these things I am guilty of saying and teaching my children, Well maybe this is Carma. I have learned that life is not always what you make it. What goes around does not come around. We are not all born innocent. We are not always able to make life the way we want it.
The hardest lesson of all was to learn that there is not always good in everyone.I still want to and have to believe that we are all Gods Children and that he exists for me to make it through all of this. Does any one know any good Custody lawyers in Northern Alberta Canada .
perniciousfamilycourts, i have seen both faces, Female & Male spaths ( One of each.. though my involvement with the female was the first and longest ). From my perspective, male spaths probably tend to stand out more to the psych community, and then there’s also the issue with males vs females which gender is more readily predisposed to seek out support for what has happened ( meaning victims ). So i agree that there isn’t more of either, just biases in the reports or data. You’re right
You might also find Kathy Krajco’s article,”NPD? A Male Disease? An Adult Disease?” quite validating ( she’s one of my fav authors on Sociopathy/Narcissism/Psychopathy ) she refers to NPD but she is more or less referring to sociopathy and psychopathy, as they are one and the same.
Here’s the article : http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2005/12/npd-male-disease-adult-disease.html
An excerpt of her beginning words :
“Another thing that warps our picture of NPD is double standards that are the fruit of stereotypes and sloppy thinking:
Women are nicer than men and therefore less likely to be narcissists.
What’s okay for men to do is wrong for women to do.
All old people are nice and deserve a pass to treat young people without repsect.
Physically hitting someone is worse than verbally abusing them or destroying their life through slander and calumny.
Children are all innocent and, by nature, good.
Rubbish.
So, another thing that invalidates current statistics is mental-health-care workers applying double standards of both age and sex.”
It’s a good read.
Thank you Doctor and everyone for the further explanations! I still can’t quite wrap my head around the bucket concept, but as stated we all think differently. Buckethead is one of my favorite rock guitarist’s, though.
Skylar: great to see you too! Excellent post, really enjoyed that. Thanks!
Dear Distressed Grandmother,
I to, am a distressed Grandmother. My B—ch ofa daughter has never ,ever allowed me to see any of her 3 children, not even as tiny babies. My husband and I dont even know what were supposed to have done, or not done. I have wriitten to her, sent cards, flowers, gifts on her Birthday, you name it Ive tried it. Makes no difference to her .I last saw her almost 18 years ag o .
Her kids are now 14, 12, and 2 years old.I consulted my solicitor years ago re all this ,and his advice to me was,”Do NOT pursue it, youll be on a hiding to nowhere”.
Grandparents have almost no rights. the only time, he said, they EVEr get custody of their Gkids, is if;
1} the parents are both dead,
2] the Mother isa drug addict
3} the kids are in moral danger, and this last is very hard to prove.
He told me, If youve previously had some time bringing up these kids, well yes, they will take this into account, but only if the above 3 strikes are in place.
The other thing is this. I know that my daughter has bad mouthed me to her kids, so even if I DID get to meet them, they would think Grandma was a bad person.
It will put you and the Gkids under strain, and at the end of the day, and after spending a fortune in the Courts, you may not get to see them anyway,let alone have joint custody. Your Daughter will try to make out you are senile, or insane, or have Alzheimers, they are so cunning!
So, my advice to you is to drop it, pray for your kids,lead your own life,try to stop agonising over them,remember their Birthdays, etc. All we can hope for is that when they turn 18, they may, I say MAY seek us out.
Its a very hard lesson , Im still very upset re my Biatch of a daughter, but I think pursuing all this will only hurt the kids more.Our spath adult children are NOT normal, they are full of rage hate,they have to be in control at any price. They view their kids only as appendages of themselves.I think, you will spend a lot of money, and basically get no-where except more and more stress and upset. We have to hand the whole sad mess over to God, and trust He will make good of it in time.
Yes, their Karma WILL hit them be sure of that!!And when hey last expect it, WHAM!!Pray for these precious kids, its all you can do, and lead your life! Living well is the best revenge!
Agonising over your Gkids will make you ILL and then what use will you be?My prayers,
much Love, and Hugs,
GemXX