I’ve been thinking lately about God, assuming He exists. Mainly, I’ve been thinking about the Judeo-Christian biblical conception of God, and asking myself, crazy as this sounds, if He exists, Is God a sociopath?
I pose this question seriously, and apologize in advance for offending anyone by probing this idea. But consider:
You are expected to worship Him.
You are expected to acknowledge His perfection.
You are expected to live by His standards.
You are expected to fear His Judgement.
You are expected to please, not disappoint Him.
You are expected to do penance when you’ve strayed from His rules.
You are expected to be in awe of, and fear, His omniscience.
You are expected to be in awe of, and fear, His omnipotence.
You are expected to prize His love, and fear His wrath.
You are expected to seek, and follow, His guidance.
When He feels unheeded, He licenses Himself to unleash cruel, violent, devastating rages (see the Flood, among countless other examples).
He is a punisher.
He is perfect.
He has no guilt; yet He instills guilt.
He “made,” and he “works,” the world and universe from “above,” sitting in Judgement of all who deviate from Him.
He is infallible.
He is unaccountable.
He is callous—a cause of, and silent witness to, untold violence and suffering in the history of humanity.
He is “entitled—”to judge, and punish, as He likes.
He is controlling to a highly pathological degree, for all the reasons stated above.
He is merciful, so long as you heed Him. Otherwise, He can be merciless.
He expects to be idealized and treated like a God.
He rages, and inflicts the cruelest of punishments, when He feels defied.
His word is the bible.
Now you tell me: If I were describing a human being in these terms, what conclusion would you draw? I suspect, if you weren’t feeling defensive, that you’d conclude that we’re talking about someone with a case of seriously malignant narcissism edging, perhaps, into the realm of sociopathy?
But, of course, I’m describing the Judeo-Christian God.
Think about this: from the earliest age, this is your almighty Father figure. You are taught to worship Him, seek His love, His mercy, accept His perfection and infallibility.
You are taught that His word is final; His wrath is justified; to feel shame before His eyes.
You are taught to have to work hard to earn your way back into His good graces, and to be grateful for His forgiveness.
His judgement is final, and even terrifying.
Now if this is the Father figure we’ve been raised to heed and idealize from birth, is it not fair to wonder how much this relationship—with God—might predispose us to end up with a sociopath?
Does one’s adult relationship with a sociopath not replicate, in certain ways, one’s relationship with God?
I pose this as food for thought, nothing else. But I will follow-up this post in the next several weeks, to further flesh out my thoughts, factoring in, as well, your initial feedback.
(This article is copyrighted (c) 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW.)
Thanks OxDrover!! I have truly appreciated reading your posts on other threads!
I’m new to posting any responses, but not new to the benefit of this site. Each of us has been dealing with REAL circumstances, with actual individuals who hold REAL sociopathic traits. I just would hate to see a philosophical dialogue detract away from the reality that each of us is living right now. We’ve been living in a twisted reality for so long, trips to the land of “what if” are something we can ill afford right now.
And in reallity, the coin could easily be flipped. I’m not saying this is the case, I’m just posing this for argument’s sake: “How do we know that those who post such questions/responses aren’t themselves guilty of sociopathic tendencies?”
*Belittling one’s faith
*Undermining one’s spirituality
*Gaslighting – I’m concerned about you falling further prey to sociopathy through belief in God or religion, so I’m going to tear down what you believe in. Don’t you want to know the truth?
*Covertly forcing one’s opinions on others
*Not considering the negative impact one’s statements on others could be a sign of both lack of empathy and a lack of responsibility
*Manipulation
I could go on, but I’m sure my point is understood. Sounds like abuse, doesn’t it?
I so agree with you that we should not have to defend ourselves. I’m new to healing and growth in my knowledge of what the sociopath did to me. I have to be honest, when I first read the post, it took me back to being told that I was too big, that I wasn’t what he wanted, that I shouldn’t have done this and shouldn’t have done that. And now, “You believe in something that I really don’t think exists. You’re such an idiot!” Although it wasn’t said outright, that’s the sense I got from reading.
I have been so blessed to be here and have people show their struggles with the world, that I may grow. I am grateful! I am thankful! I would much rather deal with the here, now and future because I was once lost, but now I’m found!
Oxy, oh that intense experience of awakening to our spiritual self beyond the carnal boundaries of the flesh. Christianity 101 … Jesus’ spiritual teachings.
Is the glass half full? Or is the glass half empty? Your choice (free will). As my Dad used to say, there is nothing written in stone floating through the universe that says you have to have a miserable attitude going through life. It’s your life to live and you only go through it once. What’s it going to be? You can stay miserable or you can be happy.
Amen!
Steve,
I was raised in a pretty much secular home. I say “pretty much” because my mom had been raised in a strict Lutheran home and did take me to Sunday School about 4 times as a little kid. It was fun.
I knew nothing of this wrathful God you write about. As a teenager and adult I explored various organized religions including Christianity (Catholicism), Islam and Judaism. I spent many, many hours in conversation with priests, Sufi masters, and rabbis in a few different countries. My introduction to Judaism was the most profound: I had the great good luck to be instructed (outside of a Chabad) by a descendant of the Baal Shem Tov—a wonderful Hasid who studied Torah and loved the joy found in the traditions and teachings of the Besht.
My beliefs now would be considered panentheistic.
Since I had no early experience with fearing God I have no point of reference for God as sociopath. I believe the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) is a guide for early monotheists to follow–applicable and appropriate for the time it was written. I see the stories as just that–stories, parables, myths. There are many good moral teachings in the Hebrew Bible. (Not cutting all your wheat–leave some for the poor, how to treat your animals, etc)
When I read your list of the traits you attribute to God I can only think of my father, a destructive sociopath. He primed me for a sociopathic mate, not God. I learned to fear my dad, period. That’s all he wanted. Fear. Which to him meant obedience–not worship, not love, not belief in his infallibility, omnipotence or omniscience. No begging for his forgiveness, none of that. Just obedience.
When I became acquainted with the God of the Torah I had no feeling of fear—I had the opposite feeling–that of love.
My non spath ex was raised in a strict hellfire and brimstone fundamentalist Christian home, complete with tent revivals and glossolia (sp). He’s now an atheist–completely turned off by organized religion. My spath ex was raised in a secular Jewish home. He’s extremely knowledgeable about Judaism and all other religions—taught the Psychology of Religion and Comparative Religion at the college/university level.
Spath ex would actually have been better off if he had believed in a wrathful God–maybe he would have behaved BETTER if he believed in something other than himself. He has no moral compass. Nothing is off-limits. I can think of no moral or legal line he would not or has not crossed.
Perhaps a belief in a *sociopathic* God can be helpful to keep some people from acting out on their own worst impulses and thoughts. It’s not the thoughts themselves that are inherently *bad*—it’s the actions.
But to answer your question, my relationship with God, now, as an adult, has nothing to do with becoming involved with a sociopath. If anything, becoming involved with a sociopath goes against God as love can not exist in a sociopathic relationship. My relationship with the sociopathic ex in no way replicated my relationship with God.
For me, it was my relationship with my dad that primed me for a spath, not my relationship with God.
Having had some definite spiritual experiences as a Christian, I can say that God is not a sociopath. When I read the Bible, I come away with a better understanding about the world-at-large, my own personal experiences oftentimes confirming what is in the Bible. I think sometimes that we can step into experiences that God would ultimately have us avoid (ignoring our gut responses), allowing consequences to occur, but He is there in the aftermath, helping us get to the other side, to stability, sanity, peace, wisdom, etc. Life experiences are hopefully helping me to gain a better understanding of God.
Healingfast
Two thumbs up for you.
This is a site of learning and healing, that’s the only reason I keep on coming here for almost four years. That’s not a site for fighting or questioning other people spirituality and beliefs. Let’s keep that in mind and not change the ultimate purpose of this wonderful tool of healing created by Donna.
Thank you Donna for the Lovefraud website.
Oxy, it’s all about perceptions.
Peace.
healingfast19
*Belittling one’s faith
*Undermining one’s spirituality
*Gaslighting ”“ I’m concerned about you falling further prey to sociopathy through belief in God or religion, so I’m going to tear down what you believe in. Don’t you want to know the truth?
*Covertly forcing one’s opinions on others
*Not considering the negative impact one’s statements on others could be a sign of both lack of empathy and a lack of responsibility
*Manipulation
******************************
None of this has happened on this thread thus far. You have been presented with actual historical facts which are all verifiable if you researched them – please do this rather than screaming “sociopath!” or “gaslighting!”.
I have not see anyone on this thread deny spirituality – very much the reverse has happened in this regard. Unless you consider the bible is the only path to spirituality. In that case you are being a bigot. Sorry, but you are. There are billions of people on this world who would be “sociopaths” in your estimation in that case. Are the 10 million Hindus who gather on the banks of the Ganges every year “Gaslighting” you? Com’on now…
I think the fact this thread even got started has really boosted my opinion of Lovefraud. It is such an important topic as I feel it goes right to the heart of how easy we are to be made victims of psychoapths as the God of the bible has softened us up by getting us used to be treated this way. This is what the original intention behind his invention was all about it.
This is a very profoundly important topic and should be kept going.
Again Frank Lee, a group of people can look at the same view and all have different perceptions.
The ultimate purpose of Lovefraud website is to deal with the SOCIOPATHS in the real world with flesh and bones, not the “ones” in the spiritual or invisible world. Most of the people who come here were profoundly affected by the evilness of real sociopaths who are leaving among us. Let’s not forget it…Who really cares about the ones “SP” that we can’t see.
I have to go on record to say that this was the most ridiculous article that I ever read on here and I find it offensive. I also think that every single thing that comes out of Frank Lee’s mouth-particularly on this subject are the most dumb-ass statements I have ever read.
This site has really started to suck since he came on here and he gives me bad FREAKIN vibes. I don’t appreciate coming here to heal with others who have had my experiences to have some guy come on here and stir up shit all the time. I am SERIOUSLY thinking very hard about how much I want to continue on this blog!!!
Oxy, ErinB, Hens, One_step-I really love you guys and there are some other good people on here as well, but I am now getting angry almost everytime I log in.