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By | July 12, 2010 128 Comments

Dear Abby and the narcissist

Last week I happened to read a Dear Abby column in the newspaper. A woman wrote to Abby that she had been married to a man for 15 years who was controlling and manipulative, along with being emotionally, economically and sexually abusive. The letter-writer termed her husband narcissistic and passive-aggressive, but in my view he may be a sociopath.

The woman is filing for divorce. Her dilemma is that her husband projects a “good guy” image, and she fears that if she accuses him of abuse, no one will believe her.

Abby’s advice was to tell a few close girlfriends what really happened. “The truth will spread like wildfire,” Abby wrote.

I wonder if Abby gave good advice for this situation. I’m sure the advice would be helpful under most circumstances. But if this guy is a sociopath, there’s a good chance that he’s already started the smear campaign against his wife—telling people that she’s mentally unbalanced, a terrible mother, and cheating on him.

What do you think?

Read the letter, Truth of abusive marriage will tarnish man’s sterling image. Then tell us if you think Abby’s plan will work.


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Dani S

Donna you are so right. The smear campaign I got was shocking to say the least I am still dealing with ramifications of his heartless actions from 2 1/2 years ago when we broke up and it still throws me into a tail spin when I hear the stories.
Yes she needs to talk to her close friends but if he is a spath which he sounds like and considering the length of there relationship she maybe aliened from close friends and family anyway.
In my experience it is not the “Truth” that spreads like wildfire, and the better the story the faster it goes and that is the last thing she needs when she is vulnerable after a relationship break up. And it isn’t a case of getting your story out there first because a spath has an angle and a answer for everthing and twists things so badly when you are at your lowest point and don’t have the strength to defend yourself.
I wonder if Dear Abby has degree/experience in sociopaths. It would be totally irresponsible for these Dear Abby’s to be giving advise unless they are knowledgeable and repeatable in the field of psychology.

There are even a lot of psychologist out there that are not well versed in the world of sociopaths and can be more harmful than good in treating victims. We all know here how delicate we are after being exposed to a spath and the wrong advise could be very costly to the victim.Maybe you should send her the LF link before she sends out anymore relationship advise. Just a thought! 🙂

Buttons

Thank you for the article, Donna.

I don’t believe that the “Truth” is ever realized. And, this may seem a very personal question, but have you ever experienced accusations of being “bitter” about the spath in your life because you began a blogsite and spoke the Truth about his heinous deeds?

This is what I typically think happens to survivors when they speak Truth about the spaths that destroyed their lives. Again, this goes back to humans being incapable or unwilling to accept the fact that there are those among us who take gleeful delight in doing harm to others.

Brightest blessings.

Dani S

Great point Buttons!! Truth & spaths don’t live in the same universe!

Rosa

In my opinion, Abby’s advice to this woman is terrible.

This woman expressed in her letter that she will be filing for divorce soon.
I think she needs to concentrate on her divorce, and come up with some evidence of abuse that will stand up in court.

It already seems to be established that this man is abusive and narcissistic.
So, it sounds like she’s in for an ugly divorce, whether he is a socio or not.

My advice would be to forget about “confiding” in the girlfriends, unless they can provide testimony that will support the wife’s claims of abuse.

Buckle up for the divorce that’s coming, because that’s where your energies are going to be needed.

While Abby may be right that “confiding” in a few close girlfriends will spread like wildfire….especially in a rural small town where No Visible Wounds lives….it will not serve any real purpose as far as the divorce goes.
It will just create a “he said, she said” situation.
If NO Visible Wounds was going to confide in her girlfriends, she should have done it a long time ago.
Doing so now, right before she files for divorce is only going to make HER look shady, my opinion.

And, I believe I read that No Visible Wounds is living in HIS hometown.
So, accusing this “good guy” of abuse in his own hometown is very risky and dangerous.

~I continued reading this “Dear Abby” column, and I thought Abby’s advice to the “Uncertain Teen” was also terrible.

Maryjane

My sister is a spath and a psychologist. She has an affair with my first husband and she smeared me behind my back. So, when I found out and confornted her and those in my family, I wasn’t believed and it hurt me beyond belief. These people are plotting and planning while we are just living our lives. She eventually got found out. She had an affair with a man while she has his wife and himself in for marriage counseling and almost lost her license to practice. She is the biggest liar and manipulator that I have ever seen and she is in my own family .. she tires to alienate me at every turn. Her children are egotisical messes.

http://www.womenexplode.com

Buttons

Donna, you’re a very courageous woman and I am personally grateful that you have turned your horrible experiences into something positive – for your own healing and the healing of countless others. I know that I’ve expressed this, before, but it can never be said enough that Survivors of sociopathy who turn their lives around are beacons for the rest of us.

I agree that Abby’s response was completely off the hook. “Telling” or “outing” spathy is often dicey, at best, even with hard evidence. My own experience with the spath son and his forgeries has been something that drives this point home with crystal clarity. In my possession, I have his “practice” signatures, his handwritten instructions on how to make documents appear more authentic, an altered “Library Services” stamp, a 100% fabricated commendation for the Bronze Star, and many, many other pieces of physical evidence. Nobody – not a single person or entity or agency – is interested in the fact that this person (my son, or anyone else) is accepting Government financial support for a completely false facade. I believe that he also broke his own wrists so that he would not be able to hold a weapon, according to military standards, and be sent to a combat duty station. It’s too convenient that both of his wrists were injured at the same time shortly after he was deemed “fit” to finally be sent to his batallion. Nevermind the pages and pages of psychiatric documentation of his diagnosis and antisocial behaviors. No, “outing” someone even with hard evidence is a dangerous and often useless effort.

Style1, I’m so sorry that you’re a member of this “club,” and it can only be hoped that the spath sister will eventually be held accountable and lose her license to practice. Even with that, she could still pretend to be licensed.

Brightest blessings.

bluejay

If this woman wants people gossiping about her, I’d keep myself focusing on the divorce. My h-spath has the “good guy” image, knowing that his own family members are not fully aware of the true nature of the problem, the man is a sociopath. I tend to keep quiet about my findings, not wanting to relive all the crappy stuff that I have lived through due to the h-spath. Who wants to replay it in your head constantly and have others in the community know your “dirty laundry.” I have had enough suffering to last a lifetime, wanting to avoid any more problems that suck the life out of you.

ErinBrock

I think it depends on what ‘phase’ of healing she’s in.
In the beginning…..we want everyone to know what an ass he is.
In the beginning a spath/toxic person IS telling tales about US already…..right out of the gate.
We want others to know the truth…..
BUT…..
does it really matter?
NO.
Not what others think or know……ONLY THE COURTS COUNT!

I remember spath, after I had filed the first TPO….going around to anyone/everyone he knew…clients, friends, family….asking for CHARACTER references to take to court!
Uh…..do ya think this served him well….NO. If the few peeps who thought highly of him really thought that highly….they would SHOW up in court for him…..none did!
But….the behaviors of asking for character references, and bullying people around him for this purpose…also helped to expose him to the ‘outside’ world.

As hard as it is……we must understand…..THEY EXPOSE THEMSELVES IN TIME.
The harder we fight to expose them….the whackier we look.

The emotional side is what we get caught up in…and angered by…….and this is how we tend to react!

The only way to react is to quietly document every aspect of the abuse. Be the silent but deadly ex!
Be the snake under the rock…..letting them pass several times, thinking you can’t hurt them…….UNTIL ONE DAY!
When the time is right…….(For you) that’s when a strike can occur.

Really, who cares what others think of us….and I know in the beginning, we want this wrong to be righted……but no matter how hard we scream…..it won’t be righted this way!

If a divorce isn’t sealed……even better……all the facts are documented through the court file. Open to the public.
It will get out…..
But, in the meantime……move forward with what really matters……the divorce and protecting your assets.

Ladies……(and gents) another reason why…..IF there is abuse……get that restraining order…..follow through……and document it all…..it does no good to cry abuse after a period of time and it was never reported!

ErinBrock

Everyone feels sorry for the percieved ‘underdog’…..this is how society works. And for a spath…..this is power and control. they nestle in as the victim for this purpose.

Even after the spath has been exposed numerous times…..he still has his family packing his lies and deceiet….flailing around his victimhood.
Even the MIL who we had countless 4 hour conversations, as she was a victim of spath son too…….to the point her life was threatened…still plays the ‘even’ keel mother.
Won’t cut him off…….his family is famous for BLOOD IS THICKER THAN WATER…..
But funny enough…..they forgot my kids are also their blood!

Spath ‘needs’ them…..kids have me. I guess is their thinking.

But….it’s kinda funny to me, the ones who stick around and support him…..are just the ones who get hammered and publicly embarrassed and financiaally buried by him now…..
so….they chose that role…..enjoy it huh!
I warned ya, you know it, you saw and lived it……..so sit back and reap whatcha all sowed!
I’m moven on!
🙂

Ox Drover

I agree that this advice is terrible, but keep in mind, this column is to newspapers what Dr. Phil and Jerry Springer are to TV–it is “light entertainment” by exposing others dirty laundry for all to see, joke about and think “wow, I’m better off than they are.” If you take it much more seriously than that then YOU are off base about it in MHO.

Yes, the advice is terrible but unfortunately that is what most women in her case do. If they have any friends left that are not also married to HIS friends who will go back and tell him what his wife is saying about him to her friends.

If a man has CAREFULLY laid his “professional” and “community” image down, say this man is a prominent lawyer or physician, then what his wife says is probably not going to do anything except make her look like the scorned woman.

Fortunately for Donna, her husband did not have a DOCUMENTED cover with a successful office, business and so on. He was not the “beloved family physician” of the country club or the powerful lawyer at the county court house. In some small towns unless the wife had been stabbed multiple times or murdered, he would not be even considered as a suspect, and even then he would lie his way out of it for years if not forever.

It is frustrating to me that women like this woman are so easily disbelieved when they tell about the abuse they have covfered up in the bedroom for decades out of shame, and when the abuser discards them, the blame is placed on them if they tell. They are demonized by the Pseudo-victim. Been there and got that Tee, and most of us have as well.

Rosa

I am actually sort of offended by Abby’s advice, telling this woman to go tell her close girlfriends, in hopes that it will spread like wildfire.

For me, this “advice” implies that women are great at “gossiping” and nothing else.

Would a man get the same advice?

I mean, this is 2010, not 1957.

Comments like this feed into a stereotype that sets women back about 50 years.

And, No Visible Wounds’ situation is actually very serious, in my opinion.
I feel like Abby made light of it by the advice she gave.

As far as I am concerned, Abby is not qualified to be giving advice to No Visible Wounds, because she is uneducated about personality disorders.

And if these advice columns are simply a form of “light entertainment”, as OxDrover says, then they should NOT be tackling questions of abuse.
I don’t consider abuse a subject of “light entertainment”, or something to joke about.
So, if the goal is to entertain, then they should stick to the superficial questions of etiquette and things of that nature.

Sorry for the momentary rant.
I went off on a little tangent….

Unfortunately, as Oxy points out, if a Spath has laid his image even half-carefully, people will believe him. That’s one of the sad things about mine- there are still so many people who believe in him, and he isn’t even in a prominent position. (He is in a “false” prominent position where he has people thinking he has credentials he doesn’t have, even though looking back, anyone who thought to google search him one time would be able to realize something didn’t add up). People just don’t want to think someone would do things like that, lie like that, be that cold. Surprise!

In my situation, from what I’ve heard, it seems like for every person that knows the truth about him, about twelve more jump into their place and support him.

Maryjane

My ex the one that my sister had an affair with was also bad mouthing me to my family.. so while I am ‘supporting’ him in words and deeds, he is and she are both tearing me down.. These people are lethal. My sister is now into this religious facade, behaves real righteous. I wonder if her now husband knows her past.. she keeps me out of her life as much as possible. She knows that I know and these people don’t like to be around people that see though them

http://www.womenexplode.com

Ox Drover

Another thing too, it is amazing just how many people REALLY DO NOT CARE that your husband bashes you in the bedroom or behind closed doors, as in:

“Well, if he was REALLY like she says for 15 years, she should have left, it is her own fault if she stayed, maybe she really likes it.”

So it is a lose, lose situation. We had a poster here formerly, who is now deceased who stayed with her dentist husband for nearly 50 years. He beat her behind closed doors for all those years, and she kept up a facade in front of her church and family and even her kids.

When he kinocked her unconscious she realized he was going to kill her and fled for her life. Her kids and her community were fully and firmly in the court of her husband, and though over the 7-8 years since she fled alone and almost wihtout a cent (he did everything he could to make sure she was in poverty and succeeded) he now openly living with a woman and his kids don’t approve but even her cadiologist told her about her kids when they came to her bedside when she was at death’s door “your children are NOT your friends.”

Her horrible health conditions and deteriiorating cognition as she was finally at death’s door (I kept in contact by phone to within a month of her death when she no longer answered her cell phone or knew who I was I think) led her to a final emotional hell on earth wanting her kids to love her and stop abusing her. I pray her soul has found peace, but sometimes the kindest thing we can do for others and for ourselves is to quit looking for OUTSIDE VALIDATION and to learn to validate ourselves. Rest in Peace Lily. Oxy

ErinBrock

Yes….others DO jump in to support and negate the 1 that he’s exposed himself to.
BUT…..a rotten/molding/smelly duck….will smell regardless if people believe what they are smelling is or is not coming from his direction……they may deny….but eventually they get to the point where the smell is so peutrid…..they seek out where it’s coming from……and under that stench is their beloved spath! And the questions start rolling……

I see the spath moving from place to place…..conning peeps in sprinting fashion…and moving on…..give them a break from him…..and then go back for more…..his supply is waning, as from his current behaviors. It seems he goes back to his ‘roots’ (THANK GOD THIS DOESN”T INCLUDE ME) and refuels his emotional supply…..each time he gets booted from a place of new supply. He will stay in his ‘hometown’ root supply for a few months, then proceed back out into the world to gain new supply.
He doesn’t set up shop in any new place…..because I think he knows….he can’t depend on these newbies as new supply for long. His story of victimization now….is getting old…..the stories of losing everything in divorce to the biatch……and when peeps ask him how long he’s been out…..and he states several years…..and he still doesn’t have a rented apt. , vehicle or money (con, but go with it huh)…..then peeps ask questions.
In the beginning this worked…..peeps would give him a place to stay, a car to drive…..all ofcourse are HIGH END places….and HIGH END cars…..no skin of this new supplies back…..for a period……until his story wears thin and old! And he moves on when he ‘feels’ it wearing thin, as to not cut off totally the supply…..but defer it for later.

Hes’ a wreak…..hes facing major felony drug charges and has nothing…….

Tell me…..has spath accomplished exposing himself?

oooh Erin, I like the rotting duck comparison! Reminds me of how everything around him reeked to high heaven while I was involved with him but he was always able to throw it off on someone else, which I, of course, believed for a time. But, as you said, eventually, if they remove layers and remove layers and the stench remains, perhaps they will see it.

ErinBrock

Like a spath blaming the dog/kids for THEIR stinky fart!

And they sometimes go so far as to punish either for doing it to keep you looking in the wrong direction.

Ox Drover

EB, your mind and mine run in the same GUTTER, I was going to use an analogy of the silent fart in the elevator—-LOL

Yes, they do blame it on others and SOMETIMES there is an odor, but sometimes they CAN burn enough “insense” to cover the odor for a while. NOT all can do the COVERT abuse, some is OVERT and they are obviously TRASHY but others have this great social cover, “good manners” and “intelligence and education” and so on to cover for them. Then there are the tattooed biker-thugs, but if a P has enough social grace to cover up, then they can go on for DECADES or even forever.

As far as the advice column of “deal abby” or “ann landers” or those colums, they are definitely for ENTERTAINMENT purposes not “great advice” these people are not even as qualified as “Dr. Laura” or “Dr. Phil” or Jerry Springer or Montel, they are to real advice what Judge Joe Brown or Judge Judy is to a REAL COURT! LOL Dr. Phil seems to take himself a bit more “seriously” than Jerry Springer but gosh, guys, who in their right mind goes on NATIONAL Television to get their THERAPY? There is a reason therapy, REAL therapy is CONFIDENTIAL guys. This is just liike the Bachelor show, or REALITY TV—it is NOT REAL folks, the p roblem may be real, but getting your solution from Jerry Springer, or Dear Abby or Dr. Phil, or finding LOVE on a TV show, it is all NONSENSE.

Dr. Phil does pay these people with “free therapy” at some kind of supposedly real therapy place, but it is PAY fror exposing their family’s incest, or drug addiction or whatever so his ratings can stay up and he can get another 16 million dollar house!

I won’t say that they NEVER give good advice, or bring up a thing that is important, Oprah now has this NO texting while you drive campaign and that is good, but she has also had some real clunker shows. So most of it is nothing but entertainment. It is like a diet totally of junk food with an occasional apple thrown in for “health’s sake.”

Cat

Dear Donna, Awesome topic and great post! I’ve read the letter and all the comments on here.
I am going to make a case for demographics. I have lived in big, big cities, in small towns and everything in between. There is something to be said about having a BIG name in a small town. Tickets get “overlooked” and I even saw a man walk on a murder rap due to someone “losing” evidence and the one on trial was a judge’s son. I have seen others not go to jail for offenses the normal person would go for. I was married to one of them for 20 years. He is NOT a sociopath (“it” came later) but my ex husband cheated continuously throughout the years. When I was finally fed up, didn’t respect or love him anymore, it all came to a head and of course, the divorce was the talk of the town as well. We THINK no one knows what goes on, but people do. I cannot tell you the people who came to me with stories about my ex AFTER I was out of that town. My ex hubby did everything “right”. He was on the hospital board, a Chamber of Commerce member and President, the Rotary, B.S.’s, the church choir, the whole nine yards. He was such a “good boy”. And cheated like a mad man. I know of 2 marriages that broke up because he was sleeping with the wife. There are people who are silent that just plain hated my ex husband and still do. Years ago, he got remarried to one of his girlfriends and has cheated on HER as well. (No! How could it be true?)

My point here is that geography just might very well have something to do with whether or not Abby’s advice works or not. In a large city, and I have lived in some biggies, no one cares. You call and cry to your girlfriends and that’s as far as it goes. In a small town, it can tarnish a reputation. BIG TIME… My ex has a rep that is very dirty now. He still has the name and the money, but he doesn’t have the respect. Money talks and B.S. gets to walk. JMHO

erin1972

Ya’ll all know how my ex made a giant smear campaign on me and told heinous lies. His wife ran me out of a job and he made me unwelcome to return to another one. They threatened me with much worse to keep me from retaliating. That is over and in the past. Even though his wife just came to my new job, she can’t do ANYTHING to me when she finds out we’re in the same building. But it’s all good.

I have to say that I really love getting a good laugh at their expense. It is very satisfying after getting off early today and enjoying a nice workout in this blazing heat, it just made my day so much better. See, my spath was a big time slob. The first time he drove me in his car, he opened the door for me and two feet of trash fell out. His ENTIRE SUV was filled with trash. He would eat and drink in the car and throw all the trash on the floor and let it accumulate there. There was layers of dried on coffee all over the place because he would spill and never clean up. His white doctor coat was always covered with stains and was a wrinkled mess.

I used to wash,bleach and starch his coats for him but was unable to get him to let me clean out his car. If we had stayed together, I would have gotten really tired of cleaning up after him. He was a slob in my house when he lived with me.

First of all, when I was pulling into the parking garage at work this morning, a very familiar vehicle was behind me. I stopped at the gate to swipe my card and sure enough–IT WAS INDEED the spath’s wife behind me!! This was my first time seeing her since she came to the job. Keep in mind that I have a new vehicle since he and I broke up AND she and I have never met in person-only spoke on the phone and by email. I saw that it was a great opportunity that she was behind me so I chose to drive as SLOW as humanly possible all the way to the 5th floor of the garage where she likes to park. THen I parked a few spots away to see what she was looking like these days. Boy man-I thought she was ugly last year!!! My how things can get worse! That was my first opportunity for laughter for the day-since he had told her that I wasn’t very attractive and looked like a man.

As I was leaving early today I had to walk past her car to get to mine. I just happened to peek in the window and found that her ENTIRE SUV was covered in trash-just like his. I had a lovely little laugh as I walked to my shiny new clean truck and got inside. I’m still smiling now-after my workout!!!!

It is so funny how some people are just SO MADE FOR EACH OTHER!!!!

bluejay

Since readers usually comment on Dear Abby’s advice, why don’t some of us who have actual life experiences dealing with a sociopath send in responses, advising the woman how to proceed with her hubby, alerting her to the fact that she could very well be dealing with a sociopath. I’ve never written to Dear Abby in my lifetime – only have read her column occasionally.

bluejay

erin1972,

I am glad your day started off well. What you described rings a bell – my h-spath is a slob with his vehicle, driving me crazy, doing the same things that the doctor did. Yuck!

erin1972

bluejay-it really is gross. I am a Virgo so I tend to be tidy and neat. I would be mortified and would possibly die if a potential love interest would see my car or my house looking the way it did. He used to tell me that his wife never cleaned the house and it looked worse than mine on it’s worst day. He said that HE had to do all the work. Dear Lord I would hate to go in their house. I was always tempted to sneak outside when he was sleeping and clean out his car. He always wanted us to go out in my car with me driving-I wonder why. That was a red flag that I ignored. He sure did love me taking care of his white coats-the only time they ever looked good!

Cat

bluejay and erin1972,
OH WOW! This hits me about the car. My ex’s car is a mess. When he drove my car, it was a mess. What IS it with them and cars? And what’s really interesting is that my ex left all kinds of evidence and clues as to what he had been doing and it was not legal, I can tell you that!

Matt

What irritates me about Dear Abby, Ask Amy and all these other is that they claim to have all these experts at their fingertips, yet they repeatedly wing it when it comes to situations like this. In this case, at a minimum, Abby owed it to her reader to run this by her legal and psychological/psychiatric experts and offer the writer some real advice. A common sense read of the letter suggests that the writer needed to get advice better than launching her own smear campaign.

About a year ago “Ask Amy” had a letter from the parents of a daughter in college who had lied about her college status, conned them out of money to study abroad (didn’t happen), was manipulative, etc — basically every single symptom the parents described fell squarely into the description of a sociopath. Her answer? You daughter needs psychological counselling. Great advice, Amy. Help the daughter to get even better at her con.

It is no secret that incidence of sociopathy is growing, as is society’s awareness of it. I would expect, at the least, that these experts might want to take a flyer and become a bit educated on the subject of sociopathy. Especially before they give advice that might very well get the person asking for advice killed.

Cat

Matt, good point! These are the people who reach millions of readers and their column is something that a lot of people automatically go to as they’re reading the morning paper. I know that I did that when I had the papered delivered to my door each morning.
I have not read the “Ask Amy” column you described, but yes, that clearly sounds like a sociopath and in my experience with my ex, all the counseling did was making him better at being a con.

ErinBrock

E72:
HA! And you were worried about the first encounter……
Ya see…..99.9% of the things we worry about never materialize. YOU were in control of this….SHE was behind you….YOU were in control of your speed (or lack of) going up to the 5th floor……..and you got a glimpse of her fugliness.

I’m glad you feel good, this is a great thing for you!!!!

silvermoon

Dear abby Dear Abby
Well I never thought
my girlfriend and me
would ever get caught

we was sittin in the back seat
jus shooting the breeze
with her hair up in curlers
and her pants to her knees
si igned
just married

Just married Just married you got no complaint
You are what you are and you ain’t what you aint
She listen up buster and listen up good
stop wishin for bad luck
and knockin on wood
si igned
Dear Abby

(From John Prine’s song of the same title)

If you want good advice, it won’t come from the paper.

“advice may pour down from the stadium full, but only the matador faces the bull”…….

silvermoon

E72

That is hysterical!

Ya know, there are certain natural laws of justice that just won’t be twarted, aren’t there…..

Rosa

I don’t usually read advice columns, but if this is the type of advice they dish out in the newspaper…..then it’s no wonder there is so much misinformation circulating about personality disorders.

It’s columns like this Dear Abby piece that is part of the problem.

erin1972

ErinB-you know I was IN control of it. It now just makes me motivated to step up my workouts now. She is a LITTLE smaller than me but not for long with all the fast food wrappers and cups in that car!!! Now the fun part will be when she finds out that we’re in the same building!!! You know I just LOVE having the upper hand. It’s the first time in a long time. I went straight home got my bike and hit the trails in the blazing heat and humidity, I was smiling my whole bike ride thinking about it!!!! I also had to laugh because her back bumper is all scrunched in and I figured out why today-that thing cannot park a car. She had to back up and reposition 5 times to get in the spot!!!

erin1972

Silver-you know it! I definitely have a new feeling of confidence now. I was laughing my ass off driving out the parking garage and all the way down the street past HIS office. They are a match made in HELL-what freaking women takes back a man who has cheated with 4 documented women? Now I know!! I’m sure her office looks no better than her car!!!

silvermoon

e72,
Keep Laughing!!!!!!!!!!!! It is the best medicine!

I don’t either know what kind of woman that is. It would be worth an article probably.

Just be glad that WE AIN”T THEM! HA!

ErinBrock

Too bad you didn’t take the elevator down with her and chat her up a bit…..all smiley and BFFie…..sweet as pie!

Ya just never know the opportunity that will arise in the future.

And guess what…..damn right…..you’ll be prepped and ready for it!

🙂

erin1972

Erin-I thought about doing just that but I was busy putting my make-up on in the car. I always have to look my absolute best now when I go to work. I will have to control my laughter when I come face to face with her. She is going to FREAK when she finds out that I work there!

super chic

erin1972:

TOWANDA!!!!!!!
🙂 🙂

one/joy_step_at_a_time

erin – i am truly glad that you did not feel disempowered as you were afraid you might. it’s rather inspiring, no? good for you!

revel in the feeling of freedom from within and don’t get caught too long in the attachment to feeling a power over her or the situation.

best,
melody

Dani S

Oxy- I can’t get out of my head your post about the poor spath victim that died!… Since the spath I have tried to drum into my head all the time – Life is no dress rehearsal and we only get one chance at this life! I do this to try to over ride the pain of the past and I want to win by being happy, an emotion he doesn’t really know!

To know abuse is one thing and I left the spath when our child was a baby, thankfully because I couldn’t imagine the spath turning my kids against me and that would be exactly what would happen if he was still around. It is such a lonely, scary place when people don’t believe what you are saying and believe the lies of a monster that people think butter wouldn’t melt in there mouths.
I had to cull all those peeps that believed the spath as the stress and anxiety was doing my head in and in the darkest days I didn’t want to live anymore because I couldn’t handle the persecution when I had done nothing sinister except love evil and I busted my arse to make him happy for years, and for what?
Anyhoo thank god she found a friend in you and hope she is finally at peace x

HoneybearII

In my experience, if a narcissist has a squeaky-clean public image, WE come off looking like bitter ex-wives no matter what the truth is. People just close their eyes and prefer to deal with The Mask that the narcissist wears, rather than believe that that wonderful church man, the family man, the funny and charming guy they know is, in private, a lying, womanizing, emotionally abusive jerk.

I used to believe that these guys would “get theirs” ultimately, but after seeing how my ex just moved on, remarried, and kept his reputation in tact in spite of all the affairs, broken marriages, and heartache he caused, I know now that there simply IS no justice in this world, and I question whether there will be any in the next. Hey! Even St. Peter probably likes to feel like he is The Man and narcissists are really, really good at that! LOL

PrincessKK

The experience I have with a sociopath, it seems like the more you start to see things, you wonder do others see or they see them as a good individual in order for them to continued to get over people as they have. I know my son father is a manipulator, he will tell the biggest lies as if you unable to find out the truth, it is sicking, do not know what to do my child life can be in danger due to the way he is and the court does not see the truth, the manipluation. My son father believes if he speaks something it is what it should be no matter what, you have to go with it, if he tells you he has five kids, he cannot do for yours, this what it must be, he is not living in this world with the rest of people. I do not know how to explain this to the court.

shana31

She not only didn’t give her good advice, she seemed to almost dismiss her as well. Her response was short and cryptic at best, potentially damaging at worst.
The husband is only abusing her now, wait until the divorce is in motion. He will start using the kids as leverage, then as confidants as he tries to portray the wife as even more unstable. She can confide in a few close friends, but I wouldn’t count on it spreading like wildfire in a small town. Just as she doesn’t want to appear the bad guy, neither will they.
She needs to be tending the fire very carefully. Eyes and ears open, mouth shut, being the one who remains calm and static, while he gets all riled up. The truth will eventually surface.

shana31

Maybe we could do as bluejay suggested and send a copy of this page to Dear Abby.

missourijewel

Good morning everyone… Reading all of your words always helps me heal a little bit more.

Regarding Abby telling the woman to tell other women about her ordeal made me think about when I left my ex of 26 years. HE had always had that ‘perfect’ public face too.

It was such a surprise when I finally worked up the courage to leave him to have SO many people come to me afterwards to say they were so glad I had left, that they had never understood why I was with him. They HAD seen his ugly side but felt that since I was still with him that they couldn’t say anything. That was 8 years ago and I’m still healing…

My best advice to anyone dealing with a sociopath? Believe in yourself, trust your gut and try very hard to LIKE yourself. I’ve learned that the more one like’s oneself, the less appealing you’ll be to a sociopath. They want someone who can be easily manipulated. I can so clearly see now that if I had just liked myself, I would never have allowed myself to be treated so horribly for so many years…

greenfern

I still struggle with the feeling of wanting to expose the spath.

Right after we split, I have confided in a person, whom I thought I could trust. I have told her about what was going on in the relationship. I must have seemed really bewildered. But she was willing to listen. She let me talk, made me dinner.

Next thing I know she tells me on the phone that she cannot talk to me anymore because I am a TOXIC PERSON. She said she is cutting all contact with me. She has told me that she got to hang out with the spath after I have talked to her, and he had nothing bad to say about me. She said that I was the one running a smear campaign and full of toxin, and the spath seemed so peaceful about things, that he did not even bring up the breakup.

I was so shocked that this woman called me the TOXIC person, and cut all contact. It’s like I was the spath. The path sis the same thing too, he cut all contact, conveniently forgot to pay last bills he was supposed to pay and moved onto another relationship fast as an eyeblink.

The way that “friend” acted really hurt. It made me loose the last bit of confidence in my judgement. I have spent many hours of therapy agonizing and wondering if I was really the toxic person and it was just easier to handle the rejection by thinking that my ex was a spath.

So, I think there is a risk to share some of these things to so called friends. Even if they don’t call you toxic, they might never give the validation that you might want.

Abby should have told her to seek therapy, attend at least once a week and get her divorce going asap, along with legal help.

Ox Drover

Dani, she came and posted here and I kept in contact by telephone when she went into the hospital the last time as long as I could. Another LF friend sent her some small gifts (a scarf etc) and this pleased her very much! She was a lovely Christian lady. My point is that we have to make our peace with all this, the people we lost through the damage with the psychopath, not just the P themselves but all those they dupe (or are just like them) and reform our lives to be happy in spite of all this dramarama. WE CAN and we MUST make ourselves happy, and validate ourselves and the reality we see. If we wait too long, the psychopath will smear us so that every resource we have is gone, and no one believes us.

How many times, for how long, have I “covered up” for my P-son, for my P-sperm donor, my egg donor, and every other P I have associated myself with in an intimate relationship of love? WE are NOT the ones who should feel the shame for their behavior, THEY should, (of course don’t) but we feel the shame and try to hide the abuse–the shame that rightly belongs to them. Lily was the perfect example of this, and she paid the horrible price for the covering up. I am no longer willing to cover for other’s bad behavior…they get their own consequences for their own bad behavior. At the same time, I realize that if they have smeared me, or covered up, sometimes Me talking about it to third parties only makes ME look scorned or bad, so I try not to get caught in the TRIANGLE of DRAMA….just validate myself and move on.

Like with my egg donor who has smeared me to high heaven in this community and with her friends and their families and our small family church members and everyone we know….she is this pseudo-pious Mother Theresa, but you know, regardless of what the community and our extended family know, I KNOW THE TRUTH….and what they believe doesn’t change the FACTS. Just like 99.9999% of the people believing at one time that the earth was flat, it didn’t change the shape of the earth! The fact that A FACT is not necessarily accepted as “truth” doesn’t change the FACT.

romanticfool no more

I think Dear Abby is a narcissist and enabler and I’m as qualified to say that as she is to give advice about sociopaths.

In my case, it didn’t matter who I told and who believed me. It hurt when people who should have known better believed him, but in thinking about it they weren’t people I wanted in my life anyway. As the woman hasn’t moved to safety yet, even if he’s “just” a N, she’s smarter to keep her mouth shut until she’s safe. You never know what they are capable of when they don’t get their way. I think she should tell a few trusted friends about the abuse, or better yet, her doctor. He still might leak the info, but at least she can sue him if he does.

Her advice to the teenager was trivial and dismissive, and then she diagnoses the last writer as passive aggressive. That really ticked me off too. I don’t care how many years he went to school, he can request she use the title, but it’s still a free speech country. I’d say the ones with the problems there are Abby and the “Reverend”. Sorry, respect has to be earned and he’s not her Reverend. He’s obviously an egomaniacal hypochondriac, a narcissist with delusions of grandeur on a power trip with a possible border line personality disorder. There! Anyone want to hire me to write an advice column? I know lots of catch phrases. Unlike Abby, I’d actually read the letters.

LouiseRosen

Abby’s answer was, at best, superficial and off-handish…

She missed a real opportunity to help many of her readers with similar problems.

Gossiping with the girls will only add more fuel to the fire that the Socio has more than likely already started and is not going to accomplish anything objective or beneficial for that lady.

Turning the other cheek on engaging in a verbal bruhaha and instead focusing on the legal and emotional aspects of the situation, along with seeking professional advice and counsel, is the advice Abby should have offered.

Instead, she resorted to an immature ‘tit for tat’ retort.

My S waged a vitriolic smear campaign and was even so bold as to send me daily fax reports of who he talked to and what he told them about me and even stated in many that he had again visited the police station, the DA, etc. attempting to have me arrested! I saved them all and said NOTHING and contacted no one. I didn’t believe at that time that many people believed him and although he made threats, he couldn’t persuade law enforcement to believe him.

He continued until some of his writings were published on line in Case Histories-True Stories on LoveFraud – thanks to Donna. Someone in his hometown (small) apparently did a web search on him and found the story… after that, he said no more and made no more threats, apparently realizing that he’d taken too large a dose of his own venom.

My advice to anyone in this situation would be to bite the bullet, remain silent, hold your head high and don’t engage in a meaningless repartee.

Sparks

newlife08

I read this article myself and was shocked at how simplistic the reply was … just tell a few friends the truth and word will spread.

Truth is – very few people see these guys for what they really are …….my close friends do and only one or two of my N’s friends see him for the N/S he is.

Over the last few years, I learned his campaign against me behind my back started many years ago . He set his family up to know he was “unhappy” , let neighbors know he was building himself a house around the corner so he could leave (also behind my back ).

He even told my best friend he was cheating on me – which she kept quiet.

He tells everyone I am crazy.

I yell.

I am unstable

I need counseling – which I am doing thanks to him.

Says he is broke because of the divorce – how can that be when he hasn’t given me much of anything. He put us in debt all by himself.

I hate the fact that he has ruined many friendships for me and made it impossible to stay in the neighborhood .

He and his SKANK are very happy to drive me and the kids right out of their home and area – sick !!!!!!

I know it shouldn’t matter, but people who have known me over 20 years have stopped communicating with me and forgotten about me – mostly males, but still they knew me professionallly and personally . It doesn’t hurt as much anymore – but initially it made his rejection cut even deeper.

They all think he’s a great guy – maybe a little disorganized , maybe s little ADHD – but a great guy nonetheless.

Too bad his wife turned out to be such a bitch – who would have thought ???

But there are others, once they knew I was DONE< DONE< DONE – that came forward to say they never liked him, seemed a little scattered, talked too much of himself, etc.

Passive – aggressive ? Indeed he was . Narcissistic ? – full on NPD says the counselor – likely even sociopathic.

And he has just purchased a 45 caliber hand gun – not sure what to think about that – what would he possibly need it for ? Making bank deposits of cash earned ? – says he's not making any money in either business .

I never felt he would hurt me physically – he never has – but I am puzzled at the timing . The divorce is dragging out, I won't lay down the white flag and agree to his terms and he is growing more frustrated.

Cat

My ex waged a huge smear campaign with me, as I’ve talked of before. HE, in the end, outed himself with a lot of people. In my situation, I threw up my hands and gave it to God and He took care of it. I have come to believe in karma and karma in my case was everyone seeing him for what he really is. I know that as I write, he’s out there screwing someone else over and I also feel there’s nothing I can do about it.

ErinB., The whole “underdog” think struck me as I was raised to support the underdog and that very frame of thought is what led to my family being robbed of so much. My own mother went to his side for awhile because of this thinking. He was just the “poor little thing who had a bad childhood and he had those mental problems and he just needed a little love and coddling”..blah, blah, blah.
Today, I don’t buy this garbage at ALL. Use your brain and look for LOGIC. Don’t live in the emotional world all the time. It will take you down and they just love that. The underdog in MY life became simply a dog and an ugly one at that. No offense to dogs and dog lovers meant. I have a dog myself.

What I did like about the letter to Dear Abby is that this woman clearly knows what she’s dealing with, knows there will be repercussions, but it doesn’t address the basic issues, like getting out asap, making plans first, getting her ducks in a row. Those are the things that will help her win in the court room. EB is right, it depends on the stage of healing she’s in. I am past the point of wanting everyone to understand the ex. BUT, I DO still smile when someone tells me something about him that gives more validation to what the ex spath really is. It’s the “human” in me. 🙂

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