This is a big topic, and I fully intend to flesh it out in future posts. But allow me, here, to consider this question from the perspective of the work I do with couples. It is often surprisingly easy, from a couples therapy perspective, to weed out the narcissists from the non-narcissists; and more importantly, the salvageable from the unsalvageable narcissists.
Narcissists, as we know, will struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective. But let’s be clear: it is the reasons they struggle with this, not that they struggle with it, that signals their narcissism.
At the risk of oversimplifying, narcissists struggle to appreciate their partners’ perspective fundamentally because they are deeply self-centered; and their self-centeredness does not arise from a neuro-developmental disorder.
But why do narcissists struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective? Mainly, because to do so, in their experience, would concede the primacy—the overwhelming significance and importance—of their wants and needs.
For narcissistic personalities, the mere notion of others questioning the primacy of their experience is felt variously as insulting, outrageous, unacceptable, threatening and punishable.
In contrast, less narcissistic personalities are less threatened to consider their partners’ perspective, because they have a more equitable view of whose perspective matters. To be clear, for less narcissistic individuals, their perspective matters a lot, but their partners’ perspective also matters a lot.
But I want to be very clear: it’s not that less narcissistic personalities don’t take their own perspectives seriously, maybe even more seriously than their partners’; it’s just that they’re not inflexibly wedded to the idea that their experience—how they feel, how they think, what they want, what they need—is always, by definition, more important and valid than their partners’!
Believe it or not, this is a virtual litmus test for problem levels of narcissism. When I work with couples, I am interested to encourage, and then see, something very important. I’m interested to encourage, first of all, the idea that “validating” your partner’s experience is not the same as endorsing it, agreeing with it, or even, necessarily, fully understanding it.
And “validating” your partner’s experience certainly doesn’t obligate you to abandon your own, possibly very different perception of the situation.
And so I often discuss this model of validation with couples in some depth—especially, the idea that you can recognize your partner’s experience; be willing, interested and curious to appreciate, and better understand, your partner’s experience, from her perspective; and recognize the sanity and sense of your partner’s experience, again from her perspective, without any of this effort and interest requiring you to concede your own, and perhaps very different, experience of the situation.
As you can see, validating, in this model, is the process of recognizing your partner’s experience from her perspective. It is not a process, as noted, of necessarily agreeing with, or even fully understanding your partner; and most certainly—and I can’t stress this enough— it is not a contest of whose perceptions of any given situation are more accurate and right, versus less accurate and more wrong.
Many find this a liberating concept, as it can allow for a relaxation of a common and unhelpful defense: I can’t validate what you’re saying or feeling, because to do so would effectively invalidate my experience.
In other words, from the perspective I’m describing, it’s possible—indeed, with motivation and practice, surpisingly easy—to validate another’s experience without in the least invalidating your own. In fact, this is a model of validation that’s relatively easy to practice because it respects the integrity of one’s own perceptions and experiences.
Once the need for the above defense is removed—and I work hard with couples to remove it—the couple’s capacity to appreciate each others’ experiences of each other often improves significantly.
Partners discover that, because the integrity of their personal experience is preservable, they can actually listen to each others’ experiences with more interest, curiosity and less defensiveness.
In marriages in which some goodwill remains, partners who buy into the model of validation I’m describing often find themselves striving for even more—that is, more than merely endeavoring to listen to each other more effectively, they often find themselves striving to make their partner’s experiences less frustrating and more satisfying.
Conversely, where no goodwill remains in the relationship, everything I’m discussing becomes pretty much moot. Narcissist or not, the marriage, with no goodwill left, is almost certainly dead. It’s just awfully difficult to recover goodwill in a relationship when the “goodwill tank” begins in the therapist’s office with the arrow on empty.
In any case, what happens in my office is often very interesting. The highly narcissistic and, in extreme cases, sociopathic client, cannot do what I’m discussing. Specifically, he is unable, with sincerity and effectiveness, to apply the model of validation I’ve described.
I suggested above the reason for this: he is simply too deeply, inflexibly invested in the significance, if not superiority, of his experience to make enough room for genuine interest in his partners’ experience, even after he’s been introduced to, and given ample time to digest, the proposed model of validation.
That is, this model of validation still falls well short of his demands. Sure, it’s nice that his partner is making efforts to recognize and appreciate his experience from his perspective. He’ll certainly take that, but he wants more than that.
Not surprisingly, what’s necessary—that is, what he still insists on and continues to demand—is his partner’s total capitulation to his way of seeing things.
This is the essence of his narcissism or, if you prefer, his deep, immutable self-centeredness.
Will these individuals show their cards immediately? More often than not, yes. More often than not, whether in my office or outside it (between therapy sessions), they’ll demonstrate, sooner than later, their inability to apply the kind of mutual validation under discussion.
But what about the smooth manipulator? It’s true that a smooth operator, a sociopath, for instance, can fake this process for some time, if he perceives it’s in his selfish interest to do so. (By “fake it,” I mean that he may seem to grasp it, apply it, and be invested in it.)
Yet, in my experience, even the manipulative individual masquerading as sensivitely invested in this form of validating communication, will almost always, sooner than later, reveal chinks in his mask; almost always, sooner than later, he’ll lapse into the highly self-centered attitudes and behaviors of the classic narcissist—attitudes and behaviors characterized by high, rationalized levels of under-accountability and non-transparency.
And so, while the slick manipulator may “get over” for a while, it’s usually not for long. That is, while he may present, initially, as reasonable, flexible and motivated, sooner than later his disguise will fray, revealing his true agenda in the forms of his usual presumptions and entitlement to ongoing gratification.
And so who is the salvageable partner? Narcissist or not, I’d venture to suggest he’s the partner capable of understanding, and appreciating, the concept of validation I propose.
He will be highly motivated to apply it, which is to say, willing to work hard, consistently and sustainedly at applying it; and, of course, he must be capable of applying it.
But the nice thing is, if he’s willing to work hard at it, he’ll definitely succeed.
In which case he won’t be a narcissist or, at the very least, his narcissism will prove to have been less extreme, and less emotionally crippling, than we might have feared.
(This article, the first of several impending articles on this subject, is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns in this article was purely for convenience’s sake. Females are also capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
Your gut is your instinct. We all have it. It’s whether we choose to listen to it or not. My gut told me there were issues with my ex before we got married. I chose to ignore them. My fault all day long! Yes, we are programmed as we are growing up whether or not we listen to ourselves or not. In my instance, I was listening to myself as a child, but having adults in authority telling me my feelings were invalid was intimidating to say the least. I have a strong will and was abused as a child for speaking up when I felt that things weren’t right. I was punished for being assertive. This did affect my life in a negative way. It’s amazing how as we get older and have experienced negative circumstances in our lives at an early age, we react in the same ways as an adult when faced with abuse. When we’re little we are forced to give in to what adults want regardless of whether it’s right or wrong, or flat out disordered! I know I’m a survivor. I’m compassionate. I feel empathy for others. However, I’m at a place in my life where I have no more compassion for abusers, those that have no regard for others at all. All I can say is start really and truthfully listening to yourself. Self protection isn’t a selfish act, IT’S HEALTHY!!! No one else is going to take care of you like you can…if you listen and allow yourself to. You have to retrain yourself. Start listening to yourself!
Hi Psyche,
“…it’s like we have to die so that they can live, in their twisted little world.
“He said it like a little boy, who deserved a minor scolding, … and play cute. What a freaking sicko.”
God, so similar to what I’ve experienced.
I totally see my responsibility in needing his BIG personality to compensate for my LACK of solidity in my self.
One day I got MAD. I used the same words you use: the sole purpose of my existence was to satisfy his goals, plans, needs, desires. I had to erase myself and live for him. As soon as I voiced this, the” relationship”–rather the tyranny–ended.
And I saw him pull the little boy cute nonsense with the shrink who actually yelled at him like you would at a 5-yr-old, “It’s NOT CUTE!”
When he was younger, he said a friend wanted to see some flowers in H’s yard, and H invited him over to look at the flowers. Then when the boy leaned down to look, H grabbed dirt and threw in the boy’s eyes. And he said the boy was so nice, and so sweet. After that the kid would not go near him, hated him.
Smart kid. I on the contrary stuck around for 20 years of more abuse and crap like that.
I don’t know how to LET GO of the immense failure I feel. The huge investment I hear many talk about, flushed down the toilet. THe huge pain of loss. The emptiness.
How does one just let go and embrace new life? I feel so stuck in regret, loss, guilt, self doubt, fear. ARGHH.
That’s why the Carrie Underwood song Un-Do It feels empowering, only for a moment. THen I’m back in my mire of self-loathing and regret.
Silver,
Daughter has said many times that her dad is weird, that she didn’t like him, that once when she was little and I wasn’t home (1st grade?) he was yelling at her in the morning and she hid under her bed she was scared of him.
But.
She loves him and seems to really want to spend time with him. He really supports her sports activities and she feels very validated by his interest. It is very hard for me to alienate her from him. I am on the lookout for any current weirdness to protect her from, but this incident was 2 1/2 yrs ago when he moved out.
Thanks, I will use the bullshit meter analogy.
ox – there’s a difference for me between ‘feeling’ intuition and ‘thinking’ intuition. i have tons of the thinking kind, tons, and for as great as my thinking intuition is, that’s exactly how bad my feeling-based intuition is. very very poor, but we all have something to work on, and your perspective is interesting. i really have to log out, but didn’t want you to feel ignored.
thanks hopeforjoy, for relating to my post. i think it really does take time to re-train after years of being deliberately confused by our abusers. some people work from the head first, others from the feelings first and foremost, but if we keep finding ways to be true to ourselves, eventually we’ll end up in the middle 🙂 we’ll just have to take extra good care until we feel that we’re relying upon something reliable. fun!
xo, psyche
PSyche, being AWARE of your instincts (or lack of them) is a good first step. I will bet they are THERE but you have just had them invalidated that it is difficult for you to hear them (sometimes they are soooooo quiet inside us) or our MIND comes ujp and tells the instincts to SHUT UP! that they don’t know what they are talking about. I have had a BUNCH of that kind of problem myself from early childhood as Forgtivemyself said, was invalidated for having opinions, or listening to my gut as a child, so was a lot of retraining to do, the silences helped me to hear those still small voices and the awareness helped me to value them, took some time, but I’m making progress, and you will too.l I think you are an awesome person! Just keep on keeping on!!! (((hugs))))
Dancing Warrior —
“I totally see my responsibility in needing his BIG personality to compensate for my LACK of solidity in my self.” ME TOO!!!! i was so small in my personhood, if that makes any sense, when i met him. I had never learned who i was, or even why my feelings mattered. It was my Spaths charm that gave me entrance into many social circles, where i was accepted for the first time in my life.
“I don’t know how to LET GO of the immense failure I feel. The huge investment I hear many talk about, flushed down the toilet. THe huge pain of loss. The emptiness. How does one just let go and embrace new life? I feel so stuck in regret, loss, guilt, self doubt, fear. ARGHH.”
I hear you! Letting go of failure seems like it’s something I need to do and re-do every day. The only time I make progress on it is when I accept. I say to myself something like “it does in fact suck as much as it does. Okay. So be it. Now what?” – and then i find I can actually breathe for a second, and let go. waiting and hoping for some kind of justice, or to finally feel better hasn’t helped me the same way, mostly that just makes me feel anxious and desperate to do that. and while I’m praying for a doorway to a new life to open for me, I am trying to clean out and tie up loose ends on all of my ties and responsibilities to my old life. Part of me hopes that that alone will allow me to keep what I liked about my former life. Another part of me just wants a peaceful life with nothing to do with the last one. ‘Good freaking riddance’ is what that part of me says to it 🙂
I feel like if I’m going to embrace a new life, I actually need to deliberately grow one, because a new one’s not growing on its own, in place of the old one. Mostly I’m just standing on a heap of ashes, covered in all the mud that’s been slung at me by the former abusers.
Can’t say I always feel good about that 🙂 but i do think knowing that I’m going to have to keep repeating the steps of letting go (processing all this crap, over and over) gives me a little peace. It’s a process, and I make myself stop expecting things to change overnight. But boy is the night long. I hear you.
xoxo, Psyche
oh and dancing warrior, the video i posted got mixed up with Rosa’s. the one i posted is a song about a woman who’s just saying something like “damn, I got kicked in the @.......$$ by love, wtf just happened, now what!?” that’s more like where I’m coming from these days 😉
it’s just that my wtf moment has lasted for three years.
Psyche,
” It was my Spaths charm that gave me entrance into many social circles, where i was accepted for the first time in my life.” This was exactly how I felt. Like, wow, how could I get so lucky. I was part of the in crowd. Broken, divorced, shy me. I was suddenly really wanted and appreciated. That was before the invalidation and feeling completely invisible. I didn’t have my oars in the water and let him steer the ship. He was after all, smarter, older, wiser, more important, less damaged then I. Of course he’ll steer us in the right direction. HA HA HA
Steve—This article is right on.
I was actually rather stunned at the N’s inability to take the other person’s perspective. Here are some examples of it:
His reaction to people thinking he should have stayed home with his wife when she had a miscarriage” Why? I was GLAD it happened. Miscarriages happen for a reason.The fetus was defective. Why should I stay home?”
On being asked if he had his planned heart-to-heart with his son about not being there for him in his childhood. “Oh yes, it was great.” I asked how his son reacted. “I don’t know….he wasn’t there.” Upon my expression of confusion, he explained, “he wasn’t there, but the other kids were, they’ll explain it to him.”
On asking him if he took his wife’s interests into account ever, in planning vacations, and he responded yes, ” I pick the [his interest’s] tours that offer some shopping on the side for spouses, and she is still too selfish to come along.”
It goes back to that one article you wrote a while back….if they do something that sort of takes your breath away in disbelief, etc….WATCH OUT.
Their lack of ability to take the other’s perspective is palpable and once you’ve seen that, you never forget what it looks like. Unless you are in the fog of their spell still, or holding so desperately to your dream of who you thought they were that you just dismiss it as something you don’t “understand”.
Such is their charm, that I have to re-inoculate myself against them by re-reading your articles. This is one of the best!
Psyche– LOL about the WTF moment lasting three years.
I sympathise. How about living in denial for, say, 16 years? Which keeps the WTF moment at bay, the inconvenient truth that I did not and still do not want to see.
I remember a line from Great Gatsby when Daisy says after the birth of her daughter, “I’m glad it’s a girl. I hope she’ll grow up to be a BEAUTIFUL LITTLE FOOL.”
Yep.