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By | June 9, 2010 33 Comments

Trust, oxytocin and testosterone

Researchers have found that a pulse of the brain hormone oxytocin—instigated by a soft touch or caress—enhances trust, and a squirt of testosterone makes people more skeptical.

Although this article doesn’t address it, these hormones have implications in dealing with sociopaths. The predators instinctively seem to know that proclaiming their love for a target, and getting the person into an intimate relationship, makes the target more likely to trust them. And then the sociopaths go to work as exploiters.

Read She doesn’t trust you? Blame the testosterone on NYTimes.com.

Link submitted by a Lovefraud reader.


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sweetcynic

Interesting. I think birth control bills also suppress testosterone absorbtion. I wonder how that affects things.

Ox Drover

It is interesting, especially in light of the article Dr. Leedom published here a year or so ago about oxytocin. (*the bonding hormone) because sex (in a normal person) causes “bonding” feelings between two people but psychopaths have fewer receptors for the oxytocin than normal people, so though they may have the same amount of hormone, it doesn’t have a place to “connect to.”

This article showing that testosterone decreases trust (women also make small amounts of testosterone) might be the reason that more men seem to be psychopaths than women. It also might account for the fact that many young men who ultimately become psychopaths don’t do so until puberty when they get the BIG rush of testosterone. (my P son blossomed as a psychopath at the same time he rapidly grew a fully beard and had to start shaving.)

While I don’t think our hormonal state is 100 dictator to our actions, it does I think make some directional pushes in our attitudes.

I took the some of first birth control pills that came out during the 1960s—back when they were HIGH DOSE and I became a shrew—did clear up any pimiples I had though—but I decided I didn’t like the way they made me feel, so stopped them and got two kids 17 months apart!

I have taken care of young women who stroked from BC pills, but it is rare, but Ii also know that without them, more women would die in child birth so it is sort of a mixed bag. I still think the CATHOLIC BC pill works well, though. It is a vitamin pill held between the knees very tightly. Works great but most women don’t like it! LOL

Buttons

Donna, thank you for this article!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Indeed, spaths seem to be able to hone in on this theory and use it to their advantage. The ex spath would often lay his hand, physically, on another person’s arm or render physical touch inappropriately. Someone once remarked to him that they didn’t want him touching them, and he complained that he was only trying to demonstrate that he wasn’t a threat!

Maryjane

Makes sense .. in that mine was always prefessing his love for me, flowers, chocolate, and doing things for me.. yet I had no sexual attraction towards him.. I would cough when he would kiss me.. Nothing phyical felt easy and natural with him.. He would always touch me.. and be too close to me.. not in that natural way that lovers do, but in a contrived way. His touch did not comfort me, make me feel trust or safety.. it actually was irritating most the time. I thought that something must be wrong with me. He was handsome, attentive ( too attentive) and pursuing me, but something felt off.. it was too much, too soon and it felt strange… I liked the companionship and help around my house.. but he was setting it up for him to move in with me.. he claimed my house as his.. and he had nothing to do with it but to hang art, etc… he actually hindered my full enjoyment of my new home.. because he was intruded himself into my life and I allowed it .. but it was like he was taking over my life.. I was at an exciting time.. and he liked the energy of it..
And when I look back, I have so much resentment of him… it was all about him and his agenda.. and he did help me and appeared so kind and sweet but he was reaping rewards off my energy, my excitement, my life.. my purchasing things for my new home.. that he claimed as also his.. while he did buy some things.. it was mostly all me.. and I spent more since he was with me.. like he was an encouragement for me to just get what I wanted.. while I am a conservative person.. I got caught up in the energy.. lost myself.. in ways..
Now, I am going on with a nice Dr. and I freak inside when he takes my hand or hugs me or tries to kiss me and he is not moving too fast.. just normal…He has his own home and is established in the community .. so he is not after me for a home, etc..
But I am damaged from the last ordeal.. I told him a bit a about it.. and he said oh, my gosh.. he was setting you up as wife, mother and to fit his mold.. he saw that by me just telling him a bit..

I need to get past that guy to go on with my life …
although, the awareness of it all is wrapped around me like a self-protection.. but I don’t want to dump what he was onto a nice person..

Buttons

Style1, the spath son would give me the absolute creeps whenever we hugged or he touched my hand. At the time, I had no idea why I was responding so violently to his physical touch, and knowing what I do now explains it. I was physically recoiling from the touch of a viper.

Maryjane

It’s our innate knowing taking over.. to protect us..
At times, mine’s hand actually felt like claws.. and his touch hurt.. just his nudging me to look at something.. I have never had this reaction ever before .. it was a strange feeling.. yet.. has his touch felt this way, his words were full of compliments, spirituality and love, love, love…

The man I am seeing now, is a bit awkward in his approach.. which is appealing in ways.. but when he takes my has he has done once in a couple of weeks of seeing each other.. internally, it takes me back to that ‘captured’ feeling that I felt with the agenda-filled socio.. the forced, love me, love me, marry me, marry me, you are my soulmate, I have been looking for you all my life, suffacation that I felt with him…
Geez.. I want to release this negative impression on me while keeping the wisdom.. although, I believe that I have the wisdom innate to my being… I felt the wrongness of it.. but wasn’t sure for a bit what I was feeling.. what I was feeling was insincerity.. con… corruption, and act.. making something what he wanted it to be and not really caring about me.. it was a ACT!

Buttons

Style1, I’m grateful to know that my physical repulsion wasn’t due to something being “wrong” with me. Your description of recoiling from the insincerity and corruption is very helpful, quite frankly! It was very hard for me to put into words when I would try to describe this physical reaction. How can a mother be repulsed by physical contact from her own offspring??? So, certainly, I came to believe that there was something wrong with me.

Yes, yes, YES……insincerity and corruption. A viper’s venom.

ErinBrock

Style and Buttons:
Great point!
I have always had the same reaction with my mother.
As a youn teen, I remember thinking it was because I was adopted…..
She always kissed me goodnight….came in to my bedroom. It repulsed me….I thought it was me. She never kissed me on the cheek or top of the head or lips……it was a CHIRP in my ear! My ears rang and it hurt…..but it was her showing affection…..and it ‘must have’ been me who was avoiding intimacy.
I don’t ever remember her hugging me. And my father was a complete steel post. No hugs or kisses. Maybe a pat on the back if I scored a goal in soccer…..but that was HIS reward….Oh….your EB’s father…..
It wasn’t until my kids said….why does Gramma chirp in our ears, that I recognized this behavior.

During my years with spath…..at one point I thought about it and thought…..damn, am I an intimacy challenged person? Is it me?
I hug friends….genuine, heartfelt hugs. I have kissed and hugged others with pleasure….and I love to hold and cuddle my kids…..and I ALWAYS kiss them goodnight.
But….I too went through periods of questioning myself….
And I don’t think it’s me.

Thanks for bringing this up!!

Maryjane

It is confusing.. in that, years ago, I was in a sexual harrassment lawsuit.. and what I was put through made me feel so shut down and cold that it was horrible.. and I met a man that I worked out with and lived near me and we became close and I was threatened by the man that sexually harrassed me and this man felt like protection.. in fact, he slept at my house, all night one night in his suit from work..
After while, he made advances to me and I told him that I was broken. He laughed and said no you aren’t, and with time and his kindness and sense of fun.. I got my zip back.. and we had a fun, fulfilling romance.. then he moved away and I cried and cried.. but then I met a man within like four days and this man I fell really in love with and him me.. and we took it slow getting into it sexually.. as in he tried and I delayed.. until I was ready and then it was great..
Just before this last man I had an affair with a long time friend after about five years of nothing and it was very sexual and fun for me.. I was just breaking up with him ( he was too young and in other ways was not fulfilling to me)when I met this last socio.. so I thought that I would slow him down and eventually feel something sexually for him.. but it got worse instead of better… he kissed like a lizard..
I have never been with anyone that kissed so gross.. but I still thought it was me…that I was broken again.. too much heart brake and disappointment..
But no, had I attached to this man sexually, it would’ve been devastating for me.. Little about him made me feel safe or secure.. as soon as I would feel good.. something would occur.. like I would disvocer that he was about to be evicted.. I found that out, the day that he moved the last bit of his furnture over to my house.. I felt devastated, used, lied to by omission …. I have had involvements that ended and they hurt but they were fun while they lasted.. they just weren’t supposed to last.. and I mourned a bit.. but I have not had something effect me as this last one.. as he infused himself into my life.. even met my family.. I haven’t introduced anyone to my family in over 15 years… We looked the part but it was not real.. and now, I feel really damaged.. not like something that breaks up, you mourn and go on.. this is like it jostled my insides in a way that is bizarre…

Because he tried to appear so perfect and match me so well and in ways he did and we did have a kind of compatibity.. but no sexual attraction to him on my part and he is a handsome man…and we made an attractive couple..

It is confusing to me…
I want to feel passion again but for the right person and in a safe framwork of trust..

Sure, you can have a love affair.. with intentions of it being only that .. but I am past that …. in my life…
I want security in emotions..

And I did put some emotions into this last man.. he convinced me to.. then when it blew up.. he is gone.. and I mean gone.. in another state and I am left with the memories of him in my house.. and I still on occasion miss him..

The only thing was like an emotional rape to me… and I didn’t realize how affected I was by it.. and how closed down I am .. and how distrusting… even of just a nice guy…wanting to date me.. I look at him like.. why are you holding my hand…

behind_blue_eyes

My experience with a sociopath, and the more I learn the more I am convinced this is the case with him, is that the sociopath is cold and untrusting, albeit charming, consistent with high testosterone.

However, they can appear to be tender. Thus, the normal person bonds while the sociopath remains unmoved.

Wising Up

I will post my full story soon, I’m just too tired right now to go over it and it’s a story I’m afraid we all know, all too well. I’ve long since known my x is a sociopath. We have a 3 year old son together and so I cannot have no contact. My son has begun to show some characteristics and I naively still believe at times that I can make a difference. I am proved wrong and land on my face time and time again. The point that I am at now, which is causing me great concern, and I’m up late as we speak worrying about, is that I recently told him that he is a sociopath. I sent him a message with a list of traits. I don’t know what I was expecting but what I got was, of course, no response to that. He seems even more cold and calculated since then, it was just about a week ago. He has our son this coming weekend. Have I made a huge, irreversible, mistake? I now realize he will probably use this as leverage to become more manipulative and conning. I am really beating myself up. I was just hoping that in learning this, he would stop his behavior in front of our son so that he doesn’t model his dad. I need some advice. Should I … well I don’t know what it is I’m looking for here, I am just worried that I’ve added too much fuel to the fire. Please, help!

bulletproof

gonetoofar

Well knowing what I know now I would not confront him with it. Why would you tell a sociopath they are a sociopath and give him a list of symptoms ? is it because at some level we hope they will say ” thanks for telling me that, I am horrified, I will go and get help immediately darling” THEY WILL NOT EVER DO THIS because they do not see it as a problem and he would not see your son the same way you do.

He is torturing you now with the ‘silence’ back, and it is working…the symptoms are NO CONSCIENCE, NO REMORSE, NEVER ACCEPTING RESPONSIBILITY FOR CRIMINAL ACTIONS

Youve just show him that you have SEEN THROUGH his MASK and
that is showing him the deck of cards, please keep them close to your chest because these people are cunning, clever and can drive you crazy so they can then say to others…”she is a crazy woman, what can I tell ya…look at her, listen to her”

The P’s sister was the only person who believed me when I told her I thought her brother was a P …she agreed and began telling me horror stories from growing up with him. I asked her why she didn’t warn me, she said well would I have believed her? (NO..the P told me she was a liar, crazy and he hated her) she also thought maybe this time he really is in love? she wasnt sure…..anyway it sure did me good to meet with her a couple of times to talk, and I also met with an ex of his who seemed very concerned about me and wasn’t surprised he robbed me in the end, she told me I would never get anything back from him..he does not care.

My own family of origin (parents, sister, brother) do not believe me to this day. My son (child from a different relationship) does not believe me, he thinks I’m just bitter because I didnt get what I wanted. None of my friends get it, thats why talking with them is actually more damaging as they try and convince me to ‘just forget about it’
No one helped me go to police, have him stopped, or even offered to ‘come with me’ as I tried to handle a complete nightmare on my own at a time he was volatile and highly dangerous. I AM THE ONLY ONE WHO KNOWS UNTIL HE MURDERS SOMEONE NO ONE LISTENS

So play it really clever back, keep control by feeding him bullshit and try to plan an exit strategy, find support, educate yourself here on LF decide what it is YOU want to do….because at the end of the day this is about YOUR LIFE as a woman and a mother to your son. NOT a counsellor to your sociopath….he will chew you up and spit you out…unless you are on the end of his “hook”

telling a psychopath he is a psychopath is like telling a shark he is a shark…they will just look back and think you are a complete moron and really should belong in a mental assylum…YOU ARE THE DEFECTIVE ONE…never them. Listen to your gut about your sons visit with him this weekend….what are you feeling about it ?

bulletproof

The P that I had the misfortune to meet was extremely ‘tactile’ with me hand holding, snuggly, spooning whilst asleep, hair caressing, calm steady attention, tender kisses, little funny faces, pet name (love) cups of tea….it was a pleasure fest of oxytocin for me…it also triggered feelings of ‘trust starvation’ when I was younger, this would manifest as worried I would ‘lose’ this supply of something I craved at some level…, heightened childlike feelings as I (unconsciously) developed a dependency on the touch…He must have picked up on this and really honed in on it….I can only see this now…he really had me reeled in with this touch thing, I can honestly say it is the most potent and dangerous thing for me in relationships. I lose myself in the need for strokes, stroking, tender love…it’s different to sex, it’s a much more child like need for parental touch. Sad….ah it’s sad. jesus why can I see all these fecking things…that make me sad…BUT!!!!!

Time to address the touch starvation thing…by first becoming aware of it. Then trying to ‘fill’ the need ‘myself’ so I am not on the end of someones hook trying to ‘get it’ from out there. I have to get it from in here. From me. it’s a hole inside that I need to fill….and in the next relationship (if I ever have one) I will not skip over the time it takes to trust someone FIRST…but the touch is so seductive, and so hypnotic that it’s dangerous for me…hugely. So where is the testosterone, i’ll have three bottles please.

Wising Up

Bulletproof,

Thank you for your response. You really validated what I already knew was true. I did it because I was hoping that he would at lease cease and decist this behavior in front of our son. I have no choice but to let him go every other weekend, it’s in the custody order. He really loves his dad and he is definately susceptible to the behavior and I am working pain stakingly hard at trying to ensure my son does not grow up to be a sociopath. You’re right it feels like it’s me against the world here. My mom is the only one that really understands. I’m sooooo glad I found this website. He told me yesterday that before our son is 18 I will be in his shoes (he was talking about custody) so I better watch out. This stemmed from me telling him he was wrong (of course) for promising our son a trip to Disney for the past 4 or 5 months and now that they are supposed to go in less than a month he has suddenly realized he cannot afford it. I am devastated for my son. He is picking our son up today for gymnastics (I try to co operate with sharing so that he cannot portray me in court as withholding – it’s such a constant battle) and he is going to tell him today that he is not taking him after all.

I’m sure he plans to lie and twist it around when he tells him. The truth is, he thought his mom would bail him out with money like she has in the past but he just asked her and surprise, she is not funding his trip to Disney. Now my son has to suffer the consequences. He has also (many times in the past) sent my son home “hating” me. He hasn’t done it as much in recent times I don’t know if he is doing it less (there is a new girlfriend around) or if my son is becoming less responsive. There have been times when my son will come home and he won’t tell me he loves me or even really talk to me. He will cry constantly and tell me his dad told him to do that. I’m afraid that now that I have sent him the message I will get my son back in that condition again Sunday night. Like I said, barring packing up and moving and changing our names, I have no choice but to send my son there every other weekend.

If anyone else has any advice for me I really need to know how to combat this as I fear it is only going to get worse (and it’s already been so bad it seems to be rock bottom until it gets even worse – I am surprised again and again) and I really need advice on handling this for the remainder of our lives! Or until (and I pray it works out this way) our son sees the truth – I will not bash his dad to him, I just pray he will see for himself eventually…

Wising Up

Bulletproof,

I’m rereading your response, it’s the most real advice I’ve ever gotten on the subject and I discovered he was a sociopath (and what a sociopath even was) over 2 years ago. We split when my son was 5 months old and he’ll be 4 in September but of course he has used our son to make my life a living hell ever since. I wonder if you have any specifics about what you mean by feeding him bullshit and how to handle him.

I’m sorry even your family doesn’t believe you. I can’t imagine what it is like to be in your position. I have told about 4 or 5 people, friends and family, and they all believe me but just don’t have much to offer in the way of any real advice.

I guess only people who have dealt with this first hand and recognized what they are dealing with and educated themselves on how to deal would really know how to handle it. I really just hope to safe guard my son as much as I can. As far as an exit strategy, I’m stuck here for the next few years because he is going to give me such hell when I move I have to have all my ducks in a row. I am finishing college and plan to have a picture perfect life to move on to because I am sure I will have to make many appearances in court to defend my position and be able to take my son.

You are absolutely right about him portraying me as being crazy. He already does that and he does bring the crazy out in me. At least he frustrates me so bad that someone on the outside looking in may see me as the crazy one since he can remain calm when he wants to. Sigh. This is rejuvenating to have someone who understands but exhausting to rehash all of this as well.

bulletproof

gonetoofar

it’s tough on your son to be in the middle of such a serious dynamic between you and your husband, he will feel ‘torn apart’

I just imagine a world where the powers that be ‘hear’ that there is a suspicion of sociopathy and that your husband would be obliged to undergo an assessment that would render him outside the possibility of “custody” if he comes up sociopath/psychopath/narcissist

Why is there no intelligence around the whole area of custody, visitation rights, supervised and un supervised access to a small vulnerable child? I am so upset about this, because there is NO -ONE where it counts taking notice and realising it’s dangerous for a child to be at the mercy of a sociopathic parent….

YOU have to combat this using your felt sense, intuition,, bravery and ACTION by going to the relevant authorities and reporting your fears, evidence, and your wishes as his mother….what would be best for him?

it seems that you are caught between a rock and a hard place…because you are doing all the right things in relation to the custody order but it is like no one has copped on this guy is a SOCIOPATH ans is quite simply DANGEROUS and of course the father of your son….

you will not bash his dad, but look at how he is returned to you after a visit….letting him down, twisting the truth, sent him home hating you, it is heartbreaking that your son came home and cried constantly….what must the little fella feel inside him? he is only 3 and its unlikely he will see anything but confusion and pain.

I hope you can get the court to judge this situation again, review it in the light of further information, have another look at least…keep fighting for your boy, and reassure him everytime he comes home upset, tell him he is ok now, you love him, care about him, hold him and let him know you are not going to rip him apart in a battle between you and your sociopathic ex. best best best of luck

and on the “crazy woman” thing just replace that with “concerned parent of a 3 year old child” there is not a person out there that will not understand that…often we go crazy if our children are threatened or in danger….combat this sociopath with the community support systems and do not take vagenuess, doubt, and a pat on the head as an answer!!

bulletproof

what I mean about feeding him bullshit is…to perhaps “play the game” with him, GIVE UP BATTLING him, but get smart in the sense, you surrender to ever getting this man to understand you, repsect you etc. and from there it’s just a chess board of moves towards YOUR GOAL…so in a sense you get as crafty as him and when you know he is “hurting” you you do not let it show, and when he spins you a line that is designed to “keep you in your box and on his hook” you might play it out so that he thinks he “still has you at his beck and call” and then in the background you work out a plan…

Wising Up

And finally, I just read through this actual post, and I am floored! I, too, was never attracted to my x spath. He said I was his muse, he tried to be all over me, etc and I, too, was repulsed!!!!! I think I will learn SO much from this site. My placement of my above posts may be a little out of place, I just wanted to put it out there on something recent so that I could get some feedback. Wow. I thought there was something wrong with me, too. Amazing how our stories, albeit different, are so similar!

I may repost my other questions elsewhere if they would garner more attention there, any suggestions?

Wising Up

My son keeps whining and saying he’s upset because I a. won’t let him go to the pool (we were at the pool for an hour) and b. won’t let him fly on an eagle. I think that his dad may have actually resorted to telling him that he isn’t going to disney because I won’t let him. But then again he hasn’t even mentioned it so I don’t even know if he told him at all and I don’t want to be the one to bring it up…this is so emotionally draining and it makes me so angry and hopeless and disgusted so weak and so strong all at once. When do we learn to deal?

bulletproof

Please don’t rely on your child for the information…..it is NOT your child’s problem…it is between two adults and the child is in the middle….thinking and guessing is not good enough…find out and deal with it adult to adult…not through an innocent, helpless child who deserves nothing but protection FROM the emotional drain…wishing you all the help in the world

Ox Drover

Dear Gonetoofar,

Just noticed your posts, welcome to LF. I know it is frustrating to have had a relationship with a psychopath but this is a good place for information and support! Go back through the articles and read, and also I suggest you go to Dr. Leedoms web site “raising the at risk child” and get her book “Just like his father’ they are great resources for someone who has a child with one of these monsters, and you need and deserve (we all do) all the helpl you can get, especially for your wonderful child! (((hugs)))) and God bless.

Wising Up

Bulletproof,

I don’t know how I missed your posts above mine, so tired I guess. I do want to go back to court and get full custody, right now I’m just gathering my resources and evidence. You are right it is such a shame that people, especially in the court systems, don’t know more about sociopathy because I’m sure it’s more prevalent than many realize. I don’t rely on my son for information, I’ve always been so careful not to. It kills me knowing what he could be going through over there for 2 days when he goes. Looking back, my dad was a sociopath too, surprise, and I know what I went through but I made it through and I can only hope he will too. I appreciate your advice on how to handle him and I am going to do just what you said. I don’t know how you pegged me, but I have spent the past few years trying to counsel him and get him to change, what a waste of my time and energy! He would fool me for lengths of time and I would think I was getting through to him until something didn’t go his way and I would see clearly that he hadn’t changed at all. I am so glad to have found this wonderful community of people to help me learn how to deal and how to best help my son in this situation! Thank you.

Wising Up

OxDrover,

Thank you. It’s funny that you say that, I was looking at that site today and decided to buy that book and was looking at several others on the site. My son displays some traits, not very loving at times and lies, impulsive, but he is not totally without empathy and I know this is the most important time in his life to impact him in a positive way. I have done my best with my intuition but Im sooo relieved to have some real guidance now. I can’t thank you guys enough for your responses and God enough for leading me here and I know now I’m on the path to healing and helping my son heal. We will survive this as healthy, happy people.

bulletproof

gonetoofar

Yes great advice, read up on the situation especially in relation to your little boy, there is great help and information here on LF and it’s really nice that you continue to pop back and chat a little at a time, because it can be so lonely and isolating to have this experience and not be validated or even believed, it is such a controversial conclusion to reach about a father….so come in and enter into the chat, become a voice here and get some real interaction on it which is in itself a powerful healer….when YOU get helped, your son is the first to benefit.

Wising Up

Thank you, I’m feeling better day by day. You are so right, it is a powerful healer to interact with others who understand, without it, you start to feel like maybe you are crazy. I always knew I wasn’t but it’s very validating to hear so many others with almost the EXACT same story. I’ve already spent hours upon hours reading here, not so great for my studies (I go to school and I have a hellacious load this summer) but wonderful for my soul. Thanks a million to you guys and to Donna for creating this much needed site for people like us.

one/joy_step_at_a_time

STYLE – i recently met someone who could become a writing client, and she was very touchy. it was odd for me; i could feel its softening affect on me -but it was also in a ‘spotlight’ for me, it stood out as just a little not right. flagged as manipulative. even if she is an okay person, she uses this to ‘gain’ trust, not EARN it – (whether she does it intentionally or not).

the handshake is the most common and accepted form of social touch in NA. I am a shaker of hands. I use the info I get from shaking people’s hands to know more about them and them in relation to me. I have developed an assertive handshake, and take it with me into any situation. I shake hands in all business situations and in most social situations. I shake hands with kids; it’s a social language and the sooner we are comfortable with it the better. BUT….like any fucking thing else, s/p/n use touch to manipulate. given my situation/ my experience with the p, i can say that the spoken word promising touch was pretty powerful too.

and tis is why it is sooo hard to find our bearings again STYLE because everything NORMAL is TWISTED by them, used as a tool to manipulate. I can’t tell you how hard it is for me to be online on lf – the conning of me started online – and being here is a mind**** for me some days. I have another experience, from years ago, of a wonderful truly supportive group online. but it doesn’t offset the online con, and neither does being here. And although some don’t think online is normal, it is ordinary and a big part of 21 c life for many people – like it or not, it is a part of the world. So, it’s not safe or okay for me either. I feel sometimes like I am holding my breath – waiting for the bs to show up – waiting for crack in the mask. I jump on the bs ones that show up here. I am convinced donna wishes i would stop hitting the report abusive comment, but i am trusting my sense of danger these days – whether it is exaggerated or not.

and i will learn by doing. hard to know here sometimes, and scarier in the real world in some way – even though i can suss more info in a real world interaction, i am nervous now. btw, i stood up to my bull bully lying landlord the other day- he pulled the pity ploy, and i am looking at him thinking,’BULLSHIT.’ I saw some skeezey people who were also smokers he was talking to…and went to talk to him about not renting to those kind of folks again (like the last ones that i busted his balls about, who ran out on the rent a couple of weeks ago). I was really panicked and then near the end of the conversation i found my balls, and it was a good lesson for me. I am so taken away by fear from what has happened that i cannot deal with things effectively. i stood my ground. and i need to keep doing that.

Style, do you have a counselor? do you have access to one? I think it might help right now, to sort out the bad guys from the good guys by paying attention to your feelings about the people, being present with yourself, and not wrapped up in the fear of what was. I have PTSD, i know i do, and i have a request in to see someone who deals with it. Do you have PTSD?

I am not going to date. period. I need to re calibrate my people meter; and it’s going to take a while. I think a new job will help me tremendously – I have lost friends over the ppath, gone NC with most of my family in the aftermath of the ppath and my work contract finished. I need a new ground to be with people to regain my confidence. truth is – there are more non ppaths than ppahts in the world…and i have to KNOW that in my daily life – but i NEED a daily life to get to know that.

a cardinal just flew into the tree outside my window; awesome! it is quiet here. such a lovely neighborhood. and the birds are the only thing stirring this morning. take good care style. I hear you.

best,
one step

one/joy_step_at_a_time

hmmm, comment posted, but it didn’t draw the thread up?

one/joy_step_at_a_time

test

one/joy_step_at_a_time

just trying to see if i can pull this thread up now

bulletproof

gonetoofar

Hope you okay! it’s great you are studying and have a goal….thinking of you.

onestep

eh…whatcha doing? …testing? pulling the thread up? so great to hear you are “standing up” to things….I really need to keep doing it, keep doing it otherwise I get walked on quicker than most..a cardinall flew into your tree, that’s the most beautiful thing i’ve read today…thank you

Wising Up

Thanks! I am ok just so busy. I still check back on this thread and read articles here on LF as much as I have time for. I got a few minutes tonight to read a bit. I ordered Just Like His Father and I’m hoping I’ll have it soon. That will be my greatest vindication if I manage to prevent my son from being a spath.

creampuff

OMG……..what a gift it is to know that I’m not the only one!! That I’m not the crazy one!! That I’m not the B—-! I am a normal, loving person who has been dealing with this for 30 years….when I first married my husband and he and his little S-path daughter (from an S-path as well) moved in with me….I could never have seen what was about to happen to me…now, I had been around kids all my life, loved kids…..but the moment I laid eyes on this kid, I felt like I was looking into the eyes of an animal that was going to attack me at any time..I gladly took on the responsibility of her (her bio Mom had abandonded them both,no surprise there)because I also had a daughter close to her age and I thought it would work out….I could never understand why I could not stand for this kid to touch me, or even be in “my space”…..it repulsed me..to this day (she is 32) and I still cannot stand for her to touch me…I would literally get palpitations, agitation, you name it….all the instincts in my gut still scream at me to RUN !! I blamed myself for decades and she of course blamed me too….but now my eyes have been opened !!!! God bless all of you who are willing to share things you may have bottled up for decades like I have…because by doing that you have made me and others feel validated. It is not easy to get on here and admit the things we overlooked, or refused to see that possibly costs us decades of our lives and almost our own sanity, but it does have healing benefits. Now we know, they are real, they are in our families, at our jobs, in our Churches, and sometimes in our very bed. They never change. Our God given insticts are what make us recoil from them…I will never feel guilty for not touching her again….and it’s true, their touch is never comforting or soft, it’s mechanical always with an agenda attached! Theirs……

garyC

Nice. This other book Testosterone is Your Friend: A Book for Both Men and Women. is quite similar to this one, I actually made a review about it.

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