This is a big topic, and I fully intend to flesh it out in future posts. But allow me, here, to consider this question from the perspective of the work I do with couples. It is often surprisingly easy, from a couples therapy perspective, to weed out the narcissists from the non-narcissists; and more importantly, the salvageable from the unsalvageable narcissists.
Narcissists, as we know, will struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective. But let’s be clear: it is the reasons they struggle with this, not that they struggle with it, that signals their narcissism.
At the risk of oversimplifying, narcissists struggle to appreciate their partners’ perspective fundamentally because they are deeply self-centered; and their self-centeredness does not arise from a neuro-developmental disorder.
But why do narcissists struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective? Mainly, because to do so, in their experience, would concede the primacy—the overwhelming significance and importance—of their wants and needs.
For narcissistic personalities, the mere notion of others questioning the primacy of their experience is felt variously as insulting, outrageous, unacceptable, threatening and punishable.
In contrast, less narcissistic personalities are less threatened to consider their partners’ perspective, because they have a more equitable view of whose perspective matters. To be clear, for less narcissistic individuals, their perspective matters a lot, but their partners’ perspective also matters a lot.
But I want to be very clear: it’s not that less narcissistic personalities don’t take their own perspectives seriously, maybe even more seriously than their partners’; it’s just that they’re not inflexibly wedded to the idea that their experience—how they feel, how they think, what they want, what they need—is always, by definition, more important and valid than their partners’!
Believe it or not, this is a virtual litmus test for problem levels of narcissism. When I work with couples, I am interested to encourage, and then see, something very important. I’m interested to encourage, first of all, the idea that “validating” your partner’s experience is not the same as endorsing it, agreeing with it, or even, necessarily, fully understanding it.
And “validating” your partner’s experience certainly doesn’t obligate you to abandon your own, possibly very different perception of the situation.
And so I often discuss this model of validation with couples in some depth—especially, the idea that you can recognize your partner’s experience; be willing, interested and curious to appreciate, and better understand, your partner’s experience, from her perspective; and recognize the sanity and sense of your partner’s experience, again from her perspective, without any of this effort and interest requiring you to concede your own, and perhaps very different, experience of the situation.
As you can see, validating, in this model, is the process of recognizing your partner’s experience from her perspective. It is not a process, as noted, of necessarily agreeing with, or even fully understanding your partner; and most certainly—and I can’t stress this enough— it is not a contest of whose perceptions of any given situation are more accurate and right, versus less accurate and more wrong.
Many find this a liberating concept, as it can allow for a relaxation of a common and unhelpful defense: I can’t validate what you’re saying or feeling, because to do so would effectively invalidate my experience.
In other words, from the perspective I’m describing, it’s possible—indeed, with motivation and practice, surpisingly easy—to validate another’s experience without in the least invalidating your own. In fact, this is a model of validation that’s relatively easy to practice because it respects the integrity of one’s own perceptions and experiences.
Once the need for the above defense is removed—and I work hard with couples to remove it—the couple’s capacity to appreciate each others’ experiences of each other often improves significantly.
Partners discover that, because the integrity of their personal experience is preservable, they can actually listen to each others’ experiences with more interest, curiosity and less defensiveness.
In marriages in which some goodwill remains, partners who buy into the model of validation I’m describing often find themselves striving for even more—that is, more than merely endeavoring to listen to each other more effectively, they often find themselves striving to make their partner’s experiences less frustrating and more satisfying.
Conversely, where no goodwill remains in the relationship, everything I’m discussing becomes pretty much moot. Narcissist or not, the marriage, with no goodwill left, is almost certainly dead. It’s just awfully difficult to recover goodwill in a relationship when the “goodwill tank” begins in the therapist’s office with the arrow on empty.
In any case, what happens in my office is often very interesting. The highly narcissistic and, in extreme cases, sociopathic client, cannot do what I’m discussing. Specifically, he is unable, with sincerity and effectiveness, to apply the model of validation I’ve described.
I suggested above the reason for this: he is simply too deeply, inflexibly invested in the significance, if not superiority, of his experience to make enough room for genuine interest in his partners’ experience, even after he’s been introduced to, and given ample time to digest, the proposed model of validation.
That is, this model of validation still falls well short of his demands. Sure, it’s nice that his partner is making efforts to recognize and appreciate his experience from his perspective. He’ll certainly take that, but he wants more than that.
Not surprisingly, what’s necessary—that is, what he still insists on and continues to demand—is his partner’s total capitulation to his way of seeing things.
This is the essence of his narcissism or, if you prefer, his deep, immutable self-centeredness.
Will these individuals show their cards immediately? More often than not, yes. More often than not, whether in my office or outside it (between therapy sessions), they’ll demonstrate, sooner than later, their inability to apply the kind of mutual validation under discussion.
But what about the smooth manipulator? It’s true that a smooth operator, a sociopath, for instance, can fake this process for some time, if he perceives it’s in his selfish interest to do so. (By “fake it,” I mean that he may seem to grasp it, apply it, and be invested in it.)
Yet, in my experience, even the manipulative individual masquerading as sensivitely invested in this form of validating communication, will almost always, sooner than later, reveal chinks in his mask; almost always, sooner than later, he’ll lapse into the highly self-centered attitudes and behaviors of the classic narcissist—attitudes and behaviors characterized by high, rationalized levels of under-accountability and non-transparency.
And so, while the slick manipulator may “get over” for a while, it’s usually not for long. That is, while he may present, initially, as reasonable, flexible and motivated, sooner than later his disguise will fray, revealing his true agenda in the forms of his usual presumptions and entitlement to ongoing gratification.
And so who is the salvageable partner? Narcissist or not, I’d venture to suggest he’s the partner capable of understanding, and appreciating, the concept of validation I propose.
He will be highly motivated to apply it, which is to say, willing to work hard, consistently and sustainedly at applying it; and, of course, he must be capable of applying it.
But the nice thing is, if he’s willing to work hard at it, he’ll definitely succeed.
In which case he won’t be a narcissist or, at the very least, his narcissism will prove to have been less extreme, and less emotionally crippling, than we might have feared.
(This article, the first of several impending articles on this subject, is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns in this article was purely for convenience’s sake. Females are also capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
Actually, maybe that last comment on my previous post isn’t fair to me. My narc detector is on HIGH alert at all times. I just still see other people falling all over them still. That is when I have to remind myself that I’m not the crazy one! Those people just haven’t pulled back the curtain on any OZ yet. The narcs really are NOT charming to me anymore.
And the narcs give themselves away, in countless ways. Hint: When someone has more than 100 profile photos of him/herself on facebook and is heavily featured in all his/her other photo albums….I think the letter N should be considered. Likewise, when they are totally private and have removed the “add as friend” button from their profile, you might be dealing with one, who like Steve said in this article, totally lacks transparency and withholds information.
That lack of transparency and lack of accountability MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE was what drove my anger meter through the roof!!! I made the mistake of assuming that like me, this one male Narc I was involved with was being transparent, and would certainly take responsibility for any hurts or wrongs I pointed out. Well, if you have to point the hurts out, USUALLY it is a sign that they won’t give a damn when you do.
I recently stood up to a Narc or psychopath…something was way wrong with her, regardless of diagnosis….and BOOM!!!! There was that RAGE at me. It was scary and I didn’t react perfectly, but the main thing is I held my ground and walked away with my dignity and life intact! Others (since it was a work situation) have tried to make sense of “why” and I just keep saying “why” doesn’t matter. What she did was unacceptable, end of story. And also, she isn’t giving a “why” so it is not our job to provide one. I’ve been non-defensive…other than those brief comments….and so huge strides for me!
I’ve grown a lot!
We want what we don’t have.
But, what we need to realize is……there is always a price to pay for it.
(ie…..entry into social circles, being taken care of, having nice posessions, fun, them planning our vacations).
If we learn to rely on ourselves and ‘get’ what it is we desire…..I think we would be less likely to fall down as hard.
I agree with Psych and Hope….I did it too.
Sometimes, I think these guys were way ahead of their time. So much of there music is an anthem to what we have experienced….. I hear this over and over in the posts….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mYBSlJGp-s
Change is now, change is now
Things that seemed to be solid are not
All is now, all is now
The time that we have to live
Gather all that we can
Keep in harmony with love´s sweet plan
Truth is real, truth is real
That which is not real does not exist
In and out roundabout
Dance to the day when fear it is gone
Gather all that we can
Keep in harmony with love´s sweet plan
Change is now, change is now
Things that seemed to be solid are not
In and out roundabout
Dance to the day when fear it is gone
Fear it is gone
Fear it is gone
I’m looking for ways to start a new life and I just hit a major bump in the road. I was talking to my daughter on the phone, she lives 3000 miles away from me and she is married, but no kids yet… and I said “I miss you so much I have thought about moving there” and she said “What would we do with each other?”
I explained that we could go hang out at the gym together, go shopping once in a while… then I just trailed off into… nothing. I said “I’m just day dreaming, I’m not really going to move there”.
I am just grasping at air, I want to be a part of something, namely… my family, and she is my family. I have friends that only want to talk on the phone once in a while because they are busy living their own lives. My siblings are married and I don’t see them much even though they live nearby (neither one had any children).
My daughter did say “when the babies come, then you’ll have to move here!!” What does that mean? After we ended the call I just cried and cried.
I’ve kind of given up on being the one to keep calling the “friends”. I don’t feel like anybody wants me around, I am tired of inviting myself over to people’s lives, I don’t feel like anyone wants me around. How to start a new life when I am full of fear and self doubt?
So this has turned into a big pity party. Sorry.
Shabby,
Its hard. Its lonely. and its weird. But its a day at a time.
Being at home, alone in your own skin is a real challenge because no one we love is able to be a partner to us. To include us so much as we badly want to connect.
We have to fill our own hours such that when others have time for us, it is a joy, not a despair that we feel.
You can not ask anyone else to fill the void you feel. You have to fill yourself in and I say this with the love that comes from sharing the experience.
Start small. Can you go to the library and browse and be ok? Can you attend a lecture at a church or a free concert at evensong? there are places which invite you to connect and to fill the empty hours.
Do you have a garden? There is a way. I understand what it is to want to be wanted and i don’t have a better answer. But, before you can’t stop crying, you have to take a step.
It isn’t easy for any of us.
I find the Tea party movement to be very interesting and serve on a research committee. Its a start.
Otherwise. I think I would go crazy. And I come here. A lot. Everytime the urge to not be alone strikes. Everytime I wonder if I made the wrong choice, everytime I wish I was anywhere but me.
Yeah, I know. But I can’t go on empty forever and neither can you. We have to move forward in healing and I think when it feels like we;re pushing a snowball uphill in a relationship, its time to go find another season because that ultimately doesn’t go anywhere good.
http://www.successful-blog.com/1/the-top-10-ways-to-start-living-your-life/
Dear Chic,
(((((((HUGS)))))) I hear the hurt in your writings and your “voice”—wanting to be WANTED, and wanting someone else to INVITE YOU into their lives. I’ve felt like that at times. I can only imagine how you would have loved to have had yhour daughter say “Oh, Mom, that would be so great, we could go shoppiing, or hang out at the gym together, and hubby just loves your cooking so you could always make him as happy guy by cooking his favorite meals.”
Sometimes being depressed leads to us feeling unwanted, which leads to us being more depressed and negative, and so people get tired of us being so depressed/ing all the time and start to avoid us, which leaves us feeling more unwanted and more depressed and more despondent, and on and on like a hamster on a wheel going round and round and the more we hurry the faster we get no where.
I know that when I am a round people who are positive and upbeat, who greet me with a smile and a funny story, I feel up lifted and want to be around that person more than if someone is down and depressed seemingly all the time!
Rather than looking to move anywhere to start your new life, why not concentrate on starting your new life where you are!
Find some sort of special interest or volunteer group to join, and go and be upbeat! Put a smile on your face, don’t be shy or wait for someone to invite you, meet someone you think you might enjoy their company and see if they will meet you for a lunch or saturday trip to the Zoo, invite THEM. If they aren’t able to or interested, find the next person in line. TAKE CONTROL There are always organizations that are looking for help from pooper scoopers or dog walkers at the rescue places to whatever you can imagine. Volunteers are always in demand. Go read to people at the nursing homes, that will give you some perspective on your relative blessings, then when you call your daughter you can tell her about all the UP beat things you are doing with your life, rather than just callin to say “I’m lonesome”—make some NEW and positive friends by being positive yourself!
Chic:
I agree with the two wise ones above!
It’s a circle we keep walking in, but with the same scenery.
The more lonely we become, the more people don’t want to be around us….
We all crave positive and upbeat….not fake, but upbeat peeps.
WE must go seek that for ourselves and not rely on anyone else to provide our emotional needs.
One thing, besides what Silver and OXy said is we need touch. If you can find a massage school to go and get ‘touched’ for an hour on the cheap…..the price is well worth it. (I’m sure star would agree! 🙂 )
You can get energy from a massage therapist. Build on that feeling of when you leave the massage and take it from there.
We are not solitary beings…..but sometimes our situations and emotional state drive us to be alone.
I think the fact your speaking about it is great…..means your tired of being lonely and will go out and ‘make your life’.
Try not to get discouraged, you’ll find your way out.
XXOO
EB
Chic:)X
I have felt like ‘getting away’ and starting again would be wonderful. It’s a fantasy of mine that has wasted far too much of my time.xx I think I understand why I’ve been doing it.(escapism?)xx But I know what I still have here is just as fine as anything I’d find elswhere (it was fine before) I just need to re-connect, I have held on to this house (towanda) It’s my house (towanda) it’s a nice house (well it used to be, pre-spath…it can be once more if I can fire myself up again) I dont have to GO anywhere to ‘find’ my life… it’s definitely here somewhere…. now where did I put it under all this crap….?xxx
shabbychic,
We think you’re pretty special! I can relate to you, as I think many who are single, unattached can. Your honesty hits home. While you’re “starting your new life,” getting more settled where you are, know that your friends at LF like hearing from you.
Thanks for your thoughts, really appreciate it more than I can say. I do not let people know how lonely I am, I am very careful about that, even with my daughter, when she calls I sound bright and happy and busy.
I have been volunteering at a wildlife sanctuary near my home… speaking of pooper scoopers!!!! LOL. I enjoy going over there and getting out of the house. I want to belong to a social group, doesn’t have to be family, jeez… even lions get that.
I’ve joined meetup.com groups but that has not resulted in any close friendships. I can’t tell if I am more miserable now than I was in the relationsh*ts with the A-holes!! I have to get out of this! Sorry I’m such a downer, just ignore me and I’ll go away! :/