This is a big topic, and I fully intend to flesh it out in future posts. But allow me, here, to consider this question from the perspective of the work I do with couples. It is often surprisingly easy, from a couples therapy perspective, to weed out the narcissists from the non-narcissists; and more importantly, the salvageable from the unsalvageable narcissists.
Narcissists, as we know, will struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective. But let’s be clear: it is the reasons they struggle with this, not that they struggle with it, that signals their narcissism.
At the risk of oversimplifying, narcissists struggle to appreciate their partners’ perspective fundamentally because they are deeply self-centered; and their self-centeredness does not arise from a neuro-developmental disorder.
But why do narcissists struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective? Mainly, because to do so, in their experience, would concede the primacy—the overwhelming significance and importance—of their wants and needs.
For narcissistic personalities, the mere notion of others questioning the primacy of their experience is felt variously as insulting, outrageous, unacceptable, threatening and punishable.
In contrast, less narcissistic personalities are less threatened to consider their partners’ perspective, because they have a more equitable view of whose perspective matters. To be clear, for less narcissistic individuals, their perspective matters a lot, but their partners’ perspective also matters a lot.
But I want to be very clear: it’s not that less narcissistic personalities don’t take their own perspectives seriously, maybe even more seriously than their partners’; it’s just that they’re not inflexibly wedded to the idea that their experience—how they feel, how they think, what they want, what they need—is always, by definition, more important and valid than their partners’!
Believe it or not, this is a virtual litmus test for problem levels of narcissism. When I work with couples, I am interested to encourage, and then see, something very important. I’m interested to encourage, first of all, the idea that “validating” your partner’s experience is not the same as endorsing it, agreeing with it, or even, necessarily, fully understanding it.
And “validating” your partner’s experience certainly doesn’t obligate you to abandon your own, possibly very different perception of the situation.
And so I often discuss this model of validation with couples in some depth—especially, the idea that you can recognize your partner’s experience; be willing, interested and curious to appreciate, and better understand, your partner’s experience, from her perspective; and recognize the sanity and sense of your partner’s experience, again from her perspective, without any of this effort and interest requiring you to concede your own, and perhaps very different, experience of the situation.
As you can see, validating, in this model, is the process of recognizing your partner’s experience from her perspective. It is not a process, as noted, of necessarily agreeing with, or even fully understanding your partner; and most certainly—and I can’t stress this enough— it is not a contest of whose perceptions of any given situation are more accurate and right, versus less accurate and more wrong.
Many find this a liberating concept, as it can allow for a relaxation of a common and unhelpful defense: I can’t validate what you’re saying or feeling, because to do so would effectively invalidate my experience.
In other words, from the perspective I’m describing, it’s possible—indeed, with motivation and practice, surpisingly easy—to validate another’s experience without in the least invalidating your own. In fact, this is a model of validation that’s relatively easy to practice because it respects the integrity of one’s own perceptions and experiences.
Once the need for the above defense is removed—and I work hard with couples to remove it—the couple’s capacity to appreciate each others’ experiences of each other often improves significantly.
Partners discover that, because the integrity of their personal experience is preservable, they can actually listen to each others’ experiences with more interest, curiosity and less defensiveness.
In marriages in which some goodwill remains, partners who buy into the model of validation I’m describing often find themselves striving for even more—that is, more than merely endeavoring to listen to each other more effectively, they often find themselves striving to make their partner’s experiences less frustrating and more satisfying.
Conversely, where no goodwill remains in the relationship, everything I’m discussing becomes pretty much moot. Narcissist or not, the marriage, with no goodwill left, is almost certainly dead. It’s just awfully difficult to recover goodwill in a relationship when the “goodwill tank” begins in the therapist’s office with the arrow on empty.
In any case, what happens in my office is often very interesting. The highly narcissistic and, in extreme cases, sociopathic client, cannot do what I’m discussing. Specifically, he is unable, with sincerity and effectiveness, to apply the model of validation I’ve described.
I suggested above the reason for this: he is simply too deeply, inflexibly invested in the significance, if not superiority, of his experience to make enough room for genuine interest in his partners’ experience, even after he’s been introduced to, and given ample time to digest, the proposed model of validation.
That is, this model of validation still falls well short of his demands. Sure, it’s nice that his partner is making efforts to recognize and appreciate his experience from his perspective. He’ll certainly take that, but he wants more than that.
Not surprisingly, what’s necessary—that is, what he still insists on and continues to demand—is his partner’s total capitulation to his way of seeing things.
This is the essence of his narcissism or, if you prefer, his deep, immutable self-centeredness.
Will these individuals show their cards immediately? More often than not, yes. More often than not, whether in my office or outside it (between therapy sessions), they’ll demonstrate, sooner than later, their inability to apply the kind of mutual validation under discussion.
But what about the smooth manipulator? It’s true that a smooth operator, a sociopath, for instance, can fake this process for some time, if he perceives it’s in his selfish interest to do so. (By “fake it,” I mean that he may seem to grasp it, apply it, and be invested in it.)
Yet, in my experience, even the manipulative individual masquerading as sensivitely invested in this form of validating communication, will almost always, sooner than later, reveal chinks in his mask; almost always, sooner than later, he’ll lapse into the highly self-centered attitudes and behaviors of the classic narcissist—attitudes and behaviors characterized by high, rationalized levels of under-accountability and non-transparency.
And so, while the slick manipulator may “get over” for a while, it’s usually not for long. That is, while he may present, initially, as reasonable, flexible and motivated, sooner than later his disguise will fray, revealing his true agenda in the forms of his usual presumptions and entitlement to ongoing gratification.
And so who is the salvageable partner? Narcissist or not, I’d venture to suggest he’s the partner capable of understanding, and appreciating, the concept of validation I propose.
He will be highly motivated to apply it, which is to say, willing to work hard, consistently and sustainedly at applying it; and, of course, he must be capable of applying it.
But the nice thing is, if he’s willing to work hard at it, he’ll definitely succeed.
In which case he won’t be a narcissist or, at the very least, his narcissism will prove to have been less extreme, and less emotionally crippling, than we might have feared.
(This article, the first of several impending articles on this subject, is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns in this article was purely for convenience’s sake. Females are also capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
My sister who is a phycologist, that almost lost her license for having an affair with one her clients and had an envolment with my first husband while I was married to him…in her ‘expert’ opinion.. claims me as a narcissist..
She is one of the most twisted people I have ever been around, selfish, manipulative, cunning, liar, sexual permiscuous, yet, she points the finger and identifys others as having issues…
UMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM concerning it all…
style1
hearing you loud and clear….being a psychologist is not a qualification that can render you a human being, maybe you think you know more than others, then you start labelling people wrongly and before long the LABEL is more important than the human being….
Regarding background checks, if you met the person online, Google their profile name or simple combinations thereof. My Googling led to a trail of 4 pornographic sites.
Tobehappy,
I didn’t get much online, but for $225 from a private eye, I got COMPLETE CRIMINAL BACKGROUND, dates, crimes, sentences, parole violations, etc. on CONVICTIONS, SS# Date of birth, every place he had ever lived, who owned it and all the surrounding neighbors and their phone numbers. CHEAP and didn’t cost near as much as a couple of different internet checks I’d go for the professional rather than on line.
I would ALSO go to the “free” back ground checks and google them. Not everyone has land line phones now so can’t always find them that way, but GOOGLE, People search, Bing, and even Wiki sometimes will have them, don’t date him girl, and all those too. If he says he works for a company, call for him at work, meet his friends, meet his neighbors, even if you met him at church. As for ON LINE MEETING, NAH, I’LL PASS, I think it is too risky, and LONG DISTANCE (more than a half hour away, or as Matt says 2 subway stops) NIX THAT TOO.
Also, watch out if they are in the HIGH CONTROL OCCUPATIONS, like Cop, lawyer, judge, etc., even minister, and check for bankruptcy, and check withh the high school and college they say they attended or anything else you can verify. Can’t be too careful!
Check ancestry.com, mylife.com
Alumni sites for his high school
run a worldwide search on his name at Alta vista.com
Try intellius because you want to have some idea before you pay a pi…..
oh,
also check bureau of Prisons inmate locator, Federal and State Parole offices and make sure you have his social security number and understand where he lives and has lived before.
2B, be careful.
A good PI background check is going to cost $500 – $1000 you won’t get so lucky as OX on price in your neighborhood and you will end up where I was, where they did $300 worth of work, but that was only a fraction of the story.
Thanks everyone for your feedback.
Bulletproof, I’m sorry you found my “psycho babble” (whatever in my article constituted psychobabble) and my analysis so “tiring” and unhelpful.
Newlife, trust me when I tell you that none of this would have made the least bit of difference in your case. You know where I’m coming from, and you know that I mean this with 100% confidence. What I’ve described in this article would have been inapplicable (unequivocally) to your situation, because this kind of relating requires two, ultimately mature enough people to participate.
Bulletproof..
I get tired of the name calling and labels.. Psychologists and psychiatrists thrive on it.. and I have met more screwed up in that profession than I care to even think about.
I even met Walter Freeman as a teenager and he told me that there are more who committ sucide in those professions than any others..and this evil man gave people frontal and preforntal lobatomies… so what is this profession exactly.. it can be a place for sickos to hide out in..
Steve no reflection on you.. I just had the need to vent..
Evil is just evil and sure there are degrees of it.. and some we all have narcissitic traits in varying degrees.. it’s when they overtake eveything else that it destroys lives..
and my psychologist sister is a determint to people.. even her own children talk about how selfish and self-serving she is…
Yet.. she is full of judgement of how others behave and in later years now is a religious fanatic…
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO…..
Blah blah blah…. I think people come in to this planet with a predispostion to doing bad.. like born evil.. sure they can be made and it’s a combo of nature vs nuture.. but innate being is difficult to change… unless shifted young.. as in I do believe that children that have been mistreated when shown love can change.. I have worked lots with children.
But adults pretty much are who they are… so if you see alarming traits.. run….!!
Someone said in another thread that smoking is a sign and I agree..
and drinking in excess… or any addiction that is so apparent that it becomes a part of a person.. it is a cover-up.. for something dark and devious in the nature…
see what you see and know.. and get away.. forget about therapy to shift them.. chances are it will never work …. I have tried it.. and the therapist was just making a lot of money an hour..
the people who want to learn about themselves and shift will do so…
Style1 & Bulletproof,
My spath ex is a retired licensed clinical psychologist. He used that against me all the time–had what I called his “diagnosis du jour” for me. That mixed in with his “spirituality” (taught classes on Psychology of Religion too) was lethal. If I wasn’t getting it from the psych angle, was getting it from his new age guru angle. We went to couple’s counseling–the therapist called him a narcissist to his face. Said “You” (pointing to spath) “are a narcissist and she” (pointing to me) is orbiting around you, trying to please you. Can’t you see that?” The spath ignored him, just completely ignored him and went on talking. Weird.
Even the spath said it’s hard to find a good therapist LOL. But there are some, and they can be wonderfully helpful. I found a really good one post-spath. A little dicey because spath knew most of the therapists in town, so I was cautious at first.
We worked through a lot of stuff, and I recommend him to anyone I know looking for a good, honest, no games psychologist.
I have an ex-friend who is a psychotherapist who dropped me as a friend during the time of hell, stuff was hitting me left-and-right, all angles, being slammed with so much chit year after year. It’s like I was drowning, would come up for air, then something else would strike (all brought on by the h-spath). I was a basketcase. She called me up and told me that she was dropping me “cause that’s what I do.” I was stunned! I haven’t talked to her since. What I realized about her is she is a hoarder (I didn’t know what was going on with her until recently when I saw a t.v. show about hoarders, then it “clicked”), having a beautiful home, but walking through her house was like going through a maze. She had wonderful possessions, all piled up on the floors of her house, chaotic-like. Every piece of furniture was covered with stuff. I use to tell myself if I had some serious problems, I wouldn’t have gone to see her professionally because first, she was a friend and second, I questioned her ability to actually help people solve problems. I have been disappointed by her because I think that here was this professional, knowing about psychiatric disorders, hearing me relate some of my experiences, and she couldn’t clue me in that, hey, there could be something really wrong with your husband (from a psychological standpoint). I remember her telling me last summer, “when I first met you, you and your husband were one of the happiest couples that I knew.” Yeh, that was then, this is now. I was hurt at being dropped during a heavy-duty crisis time. At this time, I wonder if her dropping me has something to do with the downturn of my marriage, life. I still don’t know what happened as she didn’t offer an explanation for ending the friendship. I’m at the point where I deliberately keep others at bay due to that experience, not wanting to have that happen again. I’ve had enough pain to sink a ship.