This is a big topic, and I fully intend to flesh it out in future posts. But allow me, here, to consider this question from the perspective of the work I do with couples. It is often surprisingly easy, from a couples therapy perspective, to weed out the narcissists from the non-narcissists; and more importantly, the salvageable from the unsalvageable narcissists.
Narcissists, as we know, will struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective. But let’s be clear: it is the reasons they struggle with this, not that they struggle with it, that signals their narcissism.
At the risk of oversimplifying, narcissists struggle to appreciate their partners’ perspective fundamentally because they are deeply self-centered; and their self-centeredness does not arise from a neuro-developmental disorder.
But why do narcissists struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective? Mainly, because to do so, in their experience, would concede the primacy—the overwhelming significance and importance—of their wants and needs.
For narcissistic personalities, the mere notion of others questioning the primacy of their experience is felt variously as insulting, outrageous, unacceptable, threatening and punishable.
In contrast, less narcissistic personalities are less threatened to consider their partners’ perspective, because they have a more equitable view of whose perspective matters. To be clear, for less narcissistic individuals, their perspective matters a lot, but their partners’ perspective also matters a lot.
But I want to be very clear: it’s not that less narcissistic personalities don’t take their own perspectives seriously, maybe even more seriously than their partners’; it’s just that they’re not inflexibly wedded to the idea that their experience—how they feel, how they think, what they want, what they need—is always, by definition, more important and valid than their partners’!
Believe it or not, this is a virtual litmus test for problem levels of narcissism. When I work with couples, I am interested to encourage, and then see, something very important. I’m interested to encourage, first of all, the idea that “validating” your partner’s experience is not the same as endorsing it, agreeing with it, or even, necessarily, fully understanding it.
And “validating” your partner’s experience certainly doesn’t obligate you to abandon your own, possibly very different perception of the situation.
And so I often discuss this model of validation with couples in some depth—especially, the idea that you can recognize your partner’s experience; be willing, interested and curious to appreciate, and better understand, your partner’s experience, from her perspective; and recognize the sanity and sense of your partner’s experience, again from her perspective, without any of this effort and interest requiring you to concede your own, and perhaps very different, experience of the situation.
As you can see, validating, in this model, is the process of recognizing your partner’s experience from her perspective. It is not a process, as noted, of necessarily agreeing with, or even fully understanding your partner; and most certainly—and I can’t stress this enough— it is not a contest of whose perceptions of any given situation are more accurate and right, versus less accurate and more wrong.
Many find this a liberating concept, as it can allow for a relaxation of a common and unhelpful defense: I can’t validate what you’re saying or feeling, because to do so would effectively invalidate my experience.
In other words, from the perspective I’m describing, it’s possible—indeed, with motivation and practice, surpisingly easy—to validate another’s experience without in the least invalidating your own. In fact, this is a model of validation that’s relatively easy to practice because it respects the integrity of one’s own perceptions and experiences.
Once the need for the above defense is removed—and I work hard with couples to remove it—the couple’s capacity to appreciate each others’ experiences of each other often improves significantly.
Partners discover that, because the integrity of their personal experience is preservable, they can actually listen to each others’ experiences with more interest, curiosity and less defensiveness.
In marriages in which some goodwill remains, partners who buy into the model of validation I’m describing often find themselves striving for even more—that is, more than merely endeavoring to listen to each other more effectively, they often find themselves striving to make their partner’s experiences less frustrating and more satisfying.
Conversely, where no goodwill remains in the relationship, everything I’m discussing becomes pretty much moot. Narcissist or not, the marriage, with no goodwill left, is almost certainly dead. It’s just awfully difficult to recover goodwill in a relationship when the “goodwill tank” begins in the therapist’s office with the arrow on empty.
In any case, what happens in my office is often very interesting. The highly narcissistic and, in extreme cases, sociopathic client, cannot do what I’m discussing. Specifically, he is unable, with sincerity and effectiveness, to apply the model of validation I’ve described.
I suggested above the reason for this: he is simply too deeply, inflexibly invested in the significance, if not superiority, of his experience to make enough room for genuine interest in his partners’ experience, even after he’s been introduced to, and given ample time to digest, the proposed model of validation.
That is, this model of validation still falls well short of his demands. Sure, it’s nice that his partner is making efforts to recognize and appreciate his experience from his perspective. He’ll certainly take that, but he wants more than that.
Not surprisingly, what’s necessary—that is, what he still insists on and continues to demand—is his partner’s total capitulation to his way of seeing things.
This is the essence of his narcissism or, if you prefer, his deep, immutable self-centeredness.
Will these individuals show their cards immediately? More often than not, yes. More often than not, whether in my office or outside it (between therapy sessions), they’ll demonstrate, sooner than later, their inability to apply the kind of mutual validation under discussion.
But what about the smooth manipulator? It’s true that a smooth operator, a sociopath, for instance, can fake this process for some time, if he perceives it’s in his selfish interest to do so. (By “fake it,” I mean that he may seem to grasp it, apply it, and be invested in it.)
Yet, in my experience, even the manipulative individual masquerading as sensivitely invested in this form of validating communication, will almost always, sooner than later, reveal chinks in his mask; almost always, sooner than later, he’ll lapse into the highly self-centered attitudes and behaviors of the classic narcissist—attitudes and behaviors characterized by high, rationalized levels of under-accountability and non-transparency.
And so, while the slick manipulator may “get over” for a while, it’s usually not for long. That is, while he may present, initially, as reasonable, flexible and motivated, sooner than later his disguise will fray, revealing his true agenda in the forms of his usual presumptions and entitlement to ongoing gratification.
And so who is the salvageable partner? Narcissist or not, I’d venture to suggest he’s the partner capable of understanding, and appreciating, the concept of validation I propose.
He will be highly motivated to apply it, which is to say, willing to work hard, consistently and sustainedly at applying it; and, of course, he must be capable of applying it.
But the nice thing is, if he’s willing to work hard at it, he’ll definitely succeed.
In which case he won’t be a narcissist or, at the very least, his narcissism will prove to have been less extreme, and less emotionally crippling, than we might have feared.
(This article, the first of several impending articles on this subject, is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns in this article was purely for convenience’s sake. Females are also capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
Blueskies
Congratulations, that is brilliant….!! YAY!!! upwards and onwards…you are living up to your name!
Bullet:
I don’t know what else to say, except i’m sorry you are hurting.
Chic:
” I just figured “it’s my party, and I’ll type if I want to” .
You go girl!
Dear Chic,
Nah, you’re not manic depressive, you’re just “crazy” like the rest of us ((((Hug)))) and we get on these roller coaster rides that sometimes seem like they will never end, but if we look back once in a while to assess what has gone on, we do realize the highes are not so high and the lows are not so low any more that life is leveling out.
Not having a job right now is probably a BIG portion of your problem I would think….while retirement is GOOD for me in a lot of ways, a job would put more discipline in my life, make me get up and get out more, etc. so there are good sides and bad to it.l
I liked what you and someone else were talking about on another thread I think about you doing volunteer work for a women’s shellter or a pet shelter, but get out and DO something t6o help others, and to meet new people and I will bet the FARM it will raise your self esteem. I think we (humans) have to have some REASON to get up in the morning other than just to use up oxygen and take up space, a REASON to look forward to tomorrow. We have to get tired in order to rest.
That’s one of the reasons I have volunteered in the DV shelter and CASA programs, it makes me feel better and I can help someone wihtout risking getting involved with enabling someone (which I am prone to do)
And hey, you can “blather on and on about yourself” if you want to, we love you here so just don’t be too HARD on yourself so I have to boink you, cause Ijust happen to think you are a sweet wonderful woman and I would much rather boink Henry (just on general principles) than you! LOL ROTFRLMAO (((((BIG HUGS))))))) and God bless!,
!
Hopeforjoy
I need to feel safe too, that’s why Im blathering on speaking my mind, fellow survivor, battling a spath is never a good idea unless in court with evidence sufficient enough to get justice! I’m going through a phase, I hope I’m not put in some “label” and “boxed” off as god knows what, hasnt anyone heard of the group process of forming storming norming performing? every time a newbie comes in thats going to happen, so why make a big deal out of it…ACCEPT, TOLERATE…TRUST in the grieving process that INCLUDES anger (it could save your life)…
Oxy:
You got it spot on! Why, how, what, where…….and repeat.
His daddy had a bit too much wine last night, and his wife is in Europe with the daughter…..he’s been alone with his boys for a week…..and coming to Auntie Eb’s probably sounded like a break for daddy. He got to sleep in until 10!
He pulled out the kids loud firetruck with all the bells and whistles and drives it around me…..whoo,whoo, whoo, whoooooooooooooo.
Advil time.
Funny enough his mother is older than me…..and they had a Vasectomy reversed to have this one……thier other two are mellow yellows……and this ones a stinker…….I keep telling her…..gonna have more????
I couldn’t imagine having a 5 year old NOW! YIKES!!!
If he was mine….i’d send him off to auntie oxy’s for the summer.
🙂
I’ll take your advice on the towel spot for this evening. THANKS!!!!
Bullet, I really just think the “established friendships” around here are just folks who have been here for a while, and I see them responding to everyone when they can. I have been on here for over 2 years, sometimes I feel “in” and sometimes I feel “out”. In the past few months I haven’t blogged much because I feel like some kind of a geek for some reason. I have seen so many people come and go, I just keep hanging around. I know what you mean about posting something… and getting no reply, it has happened to me many times. When I see you on here… my thoughts were/are you fit in seamlessly, your writing is very eloquent, you are able to put your thoughts on “paper” very well, something I’m not so good at. I’ve seen new people establish “friendships” right away, and felt jealous!!! Like they didn’t want me in the conversation! (it’s just like being back in junior high!) These are all my own nutty feelings, and I guess maybe I don’t realize that everyone feels this way at one time or another. I don’t know what I would do without any of you here, so I will try to write more often, even if it’s one of my inane little comments.
blueskies I am so happy for you..!! please dont take your heartache to work with you – leave it here and we will help ya deal with it..meantime smile and kick butt at the new job – your future is waiting~!
Oxy, EB, everyone, thanks, I am a bit nutty (like the rest of you, hahahaha). At this point it’s either sink or swim, and I have no intention of sinking!!! Not now!!! I can do this!
By the way, I called my daughter today and she said she did not mean to hurt my feelings, that she would be happy if I moved there!! I think my eyes are still swollen from crying on Saturday! I don’t know if I’ll ever move there, but you are right, it’s nice to feel wanted.
LOL EB that is a hoot! Fire truck and all! WOW! I think I would go craaaaaazy for sure! I am not sure I’m gonna like the hearing aids, actually (get them Thursday) my life is sooooo quiet! except for the chirping “crickets” I hear all the time, actually not a bad sound but it is really a “ringing in my ears” from years of loud noises and airplanes and shooting sports. Oh, well, if I had known I was gonna live this long I would have taken better care of myself. LOL
Yea, you can send him to Aunty Oxy’s Farm, airport and gulag, or is it gulug? Anyway PRISON FARM. We actually had a friend of my huband’s send his kid here for a 3 day school suspension and the kid really enjoyted it even though we worked him like a rented mule, but the next time he came back I made him sleep on the floor, pay a FINE, to bed at dark and up at daylight and worked him like a BNORROWED mule, then I told him that if he came back again, the FINE was $100, he had to wear an orange jump suit, SLEEP in the barn (summer or winter—1 blanket) and diet was bread and water, AND WE WOULD TAKE HIM DOWN AND SHEAR OFF HIS BEAUTIFUL HAIR5 IN A BUZZ CUT—HE didn’t enjoy the second trip much (complained to his parents I wouldn’t let him have his game boy or TV) and didn’t like sleeping on the floor, or going to bed early! But did NOT come back for the next boot camp!
Yea, it was kind of fun too for me, I was enjoying it a LOT more than he was and I had plenty of big guys out here to enforce anything I said so he knew better than to sass me. A real power trip for me!!!! I’m not sure I could be mean to a 5 year old though, but a 15 year old smart mouth—yea! That’s fun! (as long as they are not a psychopath or a budding one, just a normal miserable nasty know it all teenager, cause they are just fun to mess with) In fact, I actually like that kind of challenge with REAL kids cause they are narcissistic but they can learn and in the end, they respect you, not resent you when all is said and done! (especially if they are some one else’s kids!) LOL