This is a big topic, and I fully intend to flesh it out in future posts. But allow me, here, to consider this question from the perspective of the work I do with couples. It is often surprisingly easy, from a couples therapy perspective, to weed out the narcissists from the non-narcissists; and more importantly, the salvageable from the unsalvageable narcissists.
Narcissists, as we know, will struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective. But let’s be clear: it is the reasons they struggle with this, not that they struggle with it, that signals their narcissism.
At the risk of oversimplifying, narcissists struggle to appreciate their partners’ perspective fundamentally because they are deeply self-centered; and their self-centeredness does not arise from a neuro-developmental disorder.
But why do narcissists struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective? Mainly, because to do so, in their experience, would concede the primacy—the overwhelming significance and importance—of their wants and needs.
For narcissistic personalities, the mere notion of others questioning the primacy of their experience is felt variously as insulting, outrageous, unacceptable, threatening and punishable.
In contrast, less narcissistic personalities are less threatened to consider their partners’ perspective, because they have a more equitable view of whose perspective matters. To be clear, for less narcissistic individuals, their perspective matters a lot, but their partners’ perspective also matters a lot.
But I want to be very clear: it’s not that less narcissistic personalities don’t take their own perspectives seriously, maybe even more seriously than their partners’; it’s just that they’re not inflexibly wedded to the idea that their experience—how they feel, how they think, what they want, what they need—is always, by definition, more important and valid than their partners’!
Believe it or not, this is a virtual litmus test for problem levels of narcissism. When I work with couples, I am interested to encourage, and then see, something very important. I’m interested to encourage, first of all, the idea that “validating” your partner’s experience is not the same as endorsing it, agreeing with it, or even, necessarily, fully understanding it.
And “validating” your partner’s experience certainly doesn’t obligate you to abandon your own, possibly very different perception of the situation.
And so I often discuss this model of validation with couples in some depth—especially, the idea that you can recognize your partner’s experience; be willing, interested and curious to appreciate, and better understand, your partner’s experience, from her perspective; and recognize the sanity and sense of your partner’s experience, again from her perspective, without any of this effort and interest requiring you to concede your own, and perhaps very different, experience of the situation.
As you can see, validating, in this model, is the process of recognizing your partner’s experience from her perspective. It is not a process, as noted, of necessarily agreeing with, or even fully understanding your partner; and most certainly—and I can’t stress this enough— it is not a contest of whose perceptions of any given situation are more accurate and right, versus less accurate and more wrong.
Many find this a liberating concept, as it can allow for a relaxation of a common and unhelpful defense: I can’t validate what you’re saying or feeling, because to do so would effectively invalidate my experience.
In other words, from the perspective I’m describing, it’s possible—indeed, with motivation and practice, surpisingly easy—to validate another’s experience without in the least invalidating your own. In fact, this is a model of validation that’s relatively easy to practice because it respects the integrity of one’s own perceptions and experiences.
Once the need for the above defense is removed—and I work hard with couples to remove it—the couple’s capacity to appreciate each others’ experiences of each other often improves significantly.
Partners discover that, because the integrity of their personal experience is preservable, they can actually listen to each others’ experiences with more interest, curiosity and less defensiveness.
In marriages in which some goodwill remains, partners who buy into the model of validation I’m describing often find themselves striving for even more—that is, more than merely endeavoring to listen to each other more effectively, they often find themselves striving to make their partner’s experiences less frustrating and more satisfying.
Conversely, where no goodwill remains in the relationship, everything I’m discussing becomes pretty much moot. Narcissist or not, the marriage, with no goodwill left, is almost certainly dead. It’s just awfully difficult to recover goodwill in a relationship when the “goodwill tank” begins in the therapist’s office with the arrow on empty.
In any case, what happens in my office is often very interesting. The highly narcissistic and, in extreme cases, sociopathic client, cannot do what I’m discussing. Specifically, he is unable, with sincerity and effectiveness, to apply the model of validation I’ve described.
I suggested above the reason for this: he is simply too deeply, inflexibly invested in the significance, if not superiority, of his experience to make enough room for genuine interest in his partners’ experience, even after he’s been introduced to, and given ample time to digest, the proposed model of validation.
That is, this model of validation still falls well short of his demands. Sure, it’s nice that his partner is making efforts to recognize and appreciate his experience from his perspective. He’ll certainly take that, but he wants more than that.
Not surprisingly, what’s necessary—that is, what he still insists on and continues to demand—is his partner’s total capitulation to his way of seeing things.
This is the essence of his narcissism or, if you prefer, his deep, immutable self-centeredness.
Will these individuals show their cards immediately? More often than not, yes. More often than not, whether in my office or outside it (between therapy sessions), they’ll demonstrate, sooner than later, their inability to apply the kind of mutual validation under discussion.
But what about the smooth manipulator? It’s true that a smooth operator, a sociopath, for instance, can fake this process for some time, if he perceives it’s in his selfish interest to do so. (By “fake it,” I mean that he may seem to grasp it, apply it, and be invested in it.)
Yet, in my experience, even the manipulative individual masquerading as sensivitely invested in this form of validating communication, will almost always, sooner than later, reveal chinks in his mask; almost always, sooner than later, he’ll lapse into the highly self-centered attitudes and behaviors of the classic narcissist—attitudes and behaviors characterized by high, rationalized levels of under-accountability and non-transparency.
And so, while the slick manipulator may “get over” for a while, it’s usually not for long. That is, while he may present, initially, as reasonable, flexible and motivated, sooner than later his disguise will fray, revealing his true agenda in the forms of his usual presumptions and entitlement to ongoing gratification.
And so who is the salvageable partner? Narcissist or not, I’d venture to suggest he’s the partner capable of understanding, and appreciating, the concept of validation I propose.
He will be highly motivated to apply it, which is to say, willing to work hard, consistently and sustainedly at applying it; and, of course, he must be capable of applying it.
But the nice thing is, if he’s willing to work hard at it, he’ll definitely succeed.
In which case he won’t be a narcissist or, at the very least, his narcissism will prove to have been less extreme, and less emotionally crippling, than we might have feared.
(This article, the first of several impending articles on this subject, is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns in this article was purely for convenience’s sake. Females are also capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
Blueskies – That hillbilly moonshine messes with your spelling ~!
bulletproof, you are quite the poet! That’s pretty good!
I have invited myself to go have dinner at my brother’s home,
I’m taking my own food!!! I promised him I wouldn’t stay long!
If I drive to his house it takes about 1 minute.
If I walk it takes about 10 minutes.
Usually he is always at work, has a few months off right now
and his girlfriend is out of town (I’d go whether or not she
is home, I like her).
I don’t see him often, but if I need anything he is
always here to help.
Oh, Henry, just cause you let out about my still, I’m not gonna send you any more of my home brew white lightning! And if the “rev-e-new-ers” raid my place, I’ll boink you twice!!!!
Well, on a less cherry note, they found what they think is the last of the 20 missing bodies at Camp Albert Pike from the flash flood. I used to go camping there and that little old “river” is about like NOTHING– I can’t imagine it 23 ft deep in a matter of a couple of hours. They thought for a while there were another couple of dozen people missing. I’ve heard about not camping in the dry draws out west in case of a flash flood up stream but in ARKANSAS? DUH!!!!
Hope your place was safe from the storms in OK, Henry! Sure wouldn’t want anything to happen to the wiene dogs! (((hugs)))
Psyche, dancing warrior, shabby,bullet, and blue,
when we turn our faces to the sun, the shadows always fall behind us.The past cant touch us or hurt us unless we let it. It has no real power over us, unless we feed it.
Blessings to all of us, and Love, Gem.XXX
Gem Thats after we take off our rose colored sun glasses..
Oh Ox, before the still goes, take an order of peach brandy for me! Nothin like home growed is there?
Remember, Vampires like these who feed on others can not bear the light of day or truth.
Stay in it.
Oxy, did you receive the book yet about Ellen Pakkies, the South African woman who was forced to kill her own son?
I sent it around 2 weeks ago, maybe the post is late. love, gem.XX
Steve, thank you for this article. The principles you’re talking about are something like I was writing in my article on compassion, but from a much more real-life and actionable perspective.
I didn’t read the entire thread, only about a third of it from the top. But it was interesting to see what happened to the responses. It reminded me of when I wrote my article on forgiveness, which also triggered people. And in my usual way, I interpret this in terms of where someone is in the healing path.
There is a long bit of work that involves us going through some processes — separating our interests from the interests of our antagonists, allowing ourselves to become angry, naming them as bad people we don’t have to care about, thinking more about self-defense and sharpening up those skills, and generally learning how to become more assertive and articulate about what we want and don’t want.
And inside those processes, it’s almost impossible to imagine the exact thing that your talking about — which is letting other people have their own realities. Because we’re hyper-sensitive about own vulnerabilities and losses. And we are not in the mood to take chances understanding anything about them.
I know you wrote about this issue in your article. That part of your job is to convince people who are afraid of being open to someone else’s reality, for fear that it will require them to compromise their own, that it’s not true. That they can acknowledge without buying in.
There was a time in my life when I would have said to you, “That’s easy for you to say. But I’m too permeable, and too sensitive to whether my actions make people like or dislike me. And right now, I’m trying to stop being like that. And the only way I know how to do it is to put up a wall. And practice making my reality the only reality I care about right now. Later, I may get a little more open, but right now I’m about me, my feelings, my ideas, and screw anyone who wants to mess with me.”
And it was the right thing for me at that time. I needed to learn how to take care of myself. And I needed to unlearn a lot of codependent habits. In the initial stages, I was pretty radical.
But I think that I would have understood what you were getting at, if you had come back to me with this:
“Look Kathy. This isn’t just about you developing the capacity to observe and acknowledge another person’s reality without feeling like you have to get sucked into it. This is also about observing whether another person is willing to allow you to have your own reality, without criticizing you or pressuring you to be different or demanding that you abandon your reality for his.”
I know you said that in the article, but I’m not sure I got how important this was at the first reading. This really is about us, and our ability to judge what we’re dealing with. If we’re in a relationship with someone who is incapable of appreciating the fact that we have our own feelings, ideas, plans, reactions, intentions, etc., then this isn’t really a relationship at all. Because they can’t relate.
And even if they weren’t dangerous or unpleasant or dishonest, why would we want to invest time and energy in someone who can’t or won’t ever really know us?
That’s a complicated question that raises a lot of issues about us, and our motivations and behaviors in allowing these people into our lives. And that discussion isn’t appropriate for this response to your wonderful article.
But I think what I took away from your post is this simple thing. If someone doesn’t care to know me, or can’t find the capability to appreciate that I have my own reasons for being the way I am, or feels compelled to threaten or seduce me in directions that are not natural to me, then I’ve got a very good clue that this isn’t going to end well.
And the other piece, I guess, is that if someone doesn’t want to relate to me, there is no good reason in the world for me to invest time in trying to “earn” that attention. The people I value in my life are the ones who give me space to be myself, even while they feel free to share their own ideas and feelings. We let each other be different people, and we are honest together. And that creates a kind of caring and valuing each other that you don’t get in relationships that are full of criticism and pressure to meet someone else’s expectations.
As you said, a narcissist may be able to fake it for a little while. But it won’t take long before their real disdain for other people’s reality will show up. First in talking about other people, and then in talking about me.
Everyone has their opinions, but I’m finding as time goes on, that I really appreciate the people who assume that other people have their reasons. Again, it doesn’t mean than any of us have to agree or buy in. I have strong political opinions and I would never agree with people on the opposite side of the fence or give money to their cause. But it doesn’t mean that I don’t acknowledge their realities, or trust that they have reason for feeling that way. And the good news is that being open in that way makes me a lot smarter about dealing with them.
So thank you again for another insightful and elegantly reasoned article. It really made me think.
Kathy
Gemini-
I agree, it is in those moments when you build on what is good that good things can come of your efforts. There is no good that comes from trying to undo, or even to fight the shadow, it doesn’t work. It really is like fighting a ghost. Every punch just makes a fool out of you, and uses up your energy.
That said, I also think that there’s a period when it’s useful to walk into your shadow, to stop resisting it. Accepting it for what it is, and what it can tell you about yourself also helps set a person free, and dissolve old (destructive) patterns of relating to others, and to one’s true self. It helps destroy the useless parts of the ego (by ego I mean the beliefs that we have about who we are that may or may not be correct). That’s all very abstract, I mean for me to say it this way, but in a more feeling-based description, I think it has to do with facing what feels un-face-able, and accepting what has been unaccepted up to that point. In doing that, you can finally find out what’s good about yourself. It’s a weird, hall of mirrors, kind of process. Can’t say I’ve mastered it, but have had some successes with it.
Psyche
Kathy,
“This really is about us, and our ability to judge what we’re dealing with. If we’re in a relationship with someone who is incapable of appreciating the fact that we have our own feelings, ideas, plans, reactions, intentions, etc., then this isn’t really a relationship at all. Because they can’t relate.”
That’s it, and I agree with you and Steve on the issue that people (especially those of us who have the tendency to attract Spaths and Ns) really need tools for being able to judge what they’re dealing with. My basic failure, which allowed me to be abused for more years that I care to recall, was that I didn’t know how to determine whether someone was actually relating, or just manipulating. Did they have the real capacity to care and respect, or were they just really good at faking? I didn’t know how to tell the difference between the two, and if I had, well, it would have made all the difference.
Psyche