This is a big topic, and I fully intend to flesh it out in future posts. But allow me, here, to consider this question from the perspective of the work I do with couples. It is often surprisingly easy, from a couples therapy perspective, to weed out the narcissists from the non-narcissists; and more importantly, the salvageable from the unsalvageable narcissists.
Narcissists, as we know, will struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective. But let’s be clear: it is the reasons they struggle with this, not that they struggle with it, that signals their narcissism.
At the risk of oversimplifying, narcissists struggle to appreciate their partners’ perspective fundamentally because they are deeply self-centered; and their self-centeredness does not arise from a neuro-developmental disorder.
But why do narcissists struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective? Mainly, because to do so, in their experience, would concede the primacy—the overwhelming significance and importance—of their wants and needs.
For narcissistic personalities, the mere notion of others questioning the primacy of their experience is felt variously as insulting, outrageous, unacceptable, threatening and punishable.
In contrast, less narcissistic personalities are less threatened to consider their partners’ perspective, because they have a more equitable view of whose perspective matters. To be clear, for less narcissistic individuals, their perspective matters a lot, but their partners’ perspective also matters a lot.
But I want to be very clear: it’s not that less narcissistic personalities don’t take their own perspectives seriously, maybe even more seriously than their partners’; it’s just that they’re not inflexibly wedded to the idea that their experience—how they feel, how they think, what they want, what they need—is always, by definition, more important and valid than their partners’!
Believe it or not, this is a virtual litmus test for problem levels of narcissism. When I work with couples, I am interested to encourage, and then see, something very important. I’m interested to encourage, first of all, the idea that “validating” your partner’s experience is not the same as endorsing it, agreeing with it, or even, necessarily, fully understanding it.
And “validating” your partner’s experience certainly doesn’t obligate you to abandon your own, possibly very different perception of the situation.
And so I often discuss this model of validation with couples in some depth—especially, the idea that you can recognize your partner’s experience; be willing, interested and curious to appreciate, and better understand, your partner’s experience, from her perspective; and recognize the sanity and sense of your partner’s experience, again from her perspective, without any of this effort and interest requiring you to concede your own, and perhaps very different, experience of the situation.
As you can see, validating, in this model, is the process of recognizing your partner’s experience from her perspective. It is not a process, as noted, of necessarily agreeing with, or even fully understanding your partner; and most certainly—and I can’t stress this enough— it is not a contest of whose perceptions of any given situation are more accurate and right, versus less accurate and more wrong.
Many find this a liberating concept, as it can allow for a relaxation of a common and unhelpful defense: I can’t validate what you’re saying or feeling, because to do so would effectively invalidate my experience.
In other words, from the perspective I’m describing, it’s possible—indeed, with motivation and practice, surpisingly easy—to validate another’s experience without in the least invalidating your own. In fact, this is a model of validation that’s relatively easy to practice because it respects the integrity of one’s own perceptions and experiences.
Once the need for the above defense is removed—and I work hard with couples to remove it—the couple’s capacity to appreciate each others’ experiences of each other often improves significantly.
Partners discover that, because the integrity of their personal experience is preservable, they can actually listen to each others’ experiences with more interest, curiosity and less defensiveness.
In marriages in which some goodwill remains, partners who buy into the model of validation I’m describing often find themselves striving for even more—that is, more than merely endeavoring to listen to each other more effectively, they often find themselves striving to make their partner’s experiences less frustrating and more satisfying.
Conversely, where no goodwill remains in the relationship, everything I’m discussing becomes pretty much moot. Narcissist or not, the marriage, with no goodwill left, is almost certainly dead. It’s just awfully difficult to recover goodwill in a relationship when the “goodwill tank” begins in the therapist’s office with the arrow on empty.
In any case, what happens in my office is often very interesting. The highly narcissistic and, in extreme cases, sociopathic client, cannot do what I’m discussing. Specifically, he is unable, with sincerity and effectiveness, to apply the model of validation I’ve described.
I suggested above the reason for this: he is simply too deeply, inflexibly invested in the significance, if not superiority, of his experience to make enough room for genuine interest in his partners’ experience, even after he’s been introduced to, and given ample time to digest, the proposed model of validation.
That is, this model of validation still falls well short of his demands. Sure, it’s nice that his partner is making efforts to recognize and appreciate his experience from his perspective. He’ll certainly take that, but he wants more than that.
Not surprisingly, what’s necessary—that is, what he still insists on and continues to demand—is his partner’s total capitulation to his way of seeing things.
This is the essence of his narcissism or, if you prefer, his deep, immutable self-centeredness.
Will these individuals show their cards immediately? More often than not, yes. More often than not, whether in my office or outside it (between therapy sessions), they’ll demonstrate, sooner than later, their inability to apply the kind of mutual validation under discussion.
But what about the smooth manipulator? It’s true that a smooth operator, a sociopath, for instance, can fake this process for some time, if he perceives it’s in his selfish interest to do so. (By “fake it,” I mean that he may seem to grasp it, apply it, and be invested in it.)
Yet, in my experience, even the manipulative individual masquerading as sensivitely invested in this form of validating communication, will almost always, sooner than later, reveal chinks in his mask; almost always, sooner than later, he’ll lapse into the highly self-centered attitudes and behaviors of the classic narcissist—attitudes and behaviors characterized by high, rationalized levels of under-accountability and non-transparency.
And so, while the slick manipulator may “get over” for a while, it’s usually not for long. That is, while he may present, initially, as reasonable, flexible and motivated, sooner than later his disguise will fray, revealing his true agenda in the forms of his usual presumptions and entitlement to ongoing gratification.
And so who is the salvageable partner? Narcissist or not, I’d venture to suggest he’s the partner capable of understanding, and appreciating, the concept of validation I propose.
He will be highly motivated to apply it, which is to say, willing to work hard, consistently and sustainedly at applying it; and, of course, he must be capable of applying it.
But the nice thing is, if he’s willing to work hard at it, he’ll definitely succeed.
In which case he won’t be a narcissist or, at the very least, his narcissism will prove to have been less extreme, and less emotionally crippling, than we might have feared.
(This article, the first of several impending articles on this subject, is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns in this article was purely for convenience’s sake. Females are also capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
Geminigirl,
Thanks for including me…it means alot….xx
Hi Bluejay,
I just saw what you wrote a minute ago. Those are some kind words, thank you! For a long time now, life has been such that it’s gotten me into the habit of operating in the absence of kindness and appreciation. While that’s been good in the sense that I have had to learn to stand on my own two feet emotionally, it makes the few kind words that do come my way mean all the more.
Hugs, Psyche
Psyche, your 5:48 post is very welll worded and makes some wonderful points. In distant past P-relationshits when I would be devestated by the P, I some how had the idea I could “heal” from it like healing a broken bone and it was done with, but have realized FINALLY that emotional healing is not “final” like setting and healing a broken bone. It is an ON GOING PROCESS to keep myself whole because I don’t have that NATURAL process of protecting myself (therefore get into the next P-relationship) I’m learning to set boundaries, but it is a LEARNING PROCESS, it doesn’t seem “natural” to me. I guess maybe it is like learning a language. If you learn it very young you can learn 2, 3, 4, languages and be fluent in them all, speak in them, think in them, dream in them, but if you don’t have a particular talent for languages and/or you learn them as an adult, you have to continually TRANSLATE from your “native” language into “boundary speak” like you would if you were trying to communicate in the newly and incompletely-learned second language.
I’ve had the “concept” of boundaries from many years, but just didn’t know how to properly place them with people “close” to me or inside the family and “hurting their feelings” was a terrible TABBOOOOOOOOO! I’m finally realizing that “hurting their feelings” is not nearly as important as the STOMPING on mine they are doing. LOL It is still difficult sometimes if the person is someone I love dearly but I’m doing it anyway. Setting and enforcing reasonable boundaries. Actually, I’m kind of proud of myself for sticking to my guns about the boundaries, but I do know that I MUST continue to learn to speak my “new language.”
Dear bulletproof, you are welcome, darling. sometimes we throw a tantie because we feel no one cares, and no-one is listening to us, or we feel so scared, alone, and vulnerable.
Sometimes all we really need isa massive,!!{{{{!HUG}} so thats what Im sending you. Sometimes we feel God doesnt care, or He/she isnt listening. He/she does, but sometimes we needa REAL human hug, and from a real person with skin on!!.
Now, just sit quiet, fora moment, and KNOW how loved you are.OK?? Lots of Love, sweetie! from mamaGem.XXXXXXXXxxXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX PS your doing OK!
bulletproof, oh yeah, the lie… that has been very tough for me, I spent 14 years with a narcissist, then 1 year with an S. Was very had to come out of a lifetime of being in the fog. I always thought it was me – not them. So now I struggle with forgiving myself for wasting my life on them (and some money too).
But on the bright side, this past Christmas I actually enjoyed myself at different family parties because I didn’t have to worry about anyone else and why they weren’t with me!!!!
When they blank you, or disappear for a few days, it’s all part of their little plan to make you panic and try harder. We’re all going to be ok, sooner than later!!!! And now we’re smarter!
I told my brother I enjoyed spending time with him. I told hime he doesn’t realize what it’s like not to have worked for so long… and that I get bored and have to be around people. I think he liked me coming over. I’ve been isolating myself too much.
geminigirl
Thanks so much. I am telling myself no I’m not going crazy, I was injured psychologically. I slip into self loathing and incredible anger.
That’s it too, feeling no one cares, not REALLY not DEEP DOWN CARE and even if they do I’m suspicious.
I’m happy with your hug! from a real person…with skin on, I need love so bad right now but if it came near me I would probably attack it, I think I have thawed out completely now, no more shock to keep me numb and painless…it really hurts a YEAR ON….I thought I would have found someone else, moved on but expecting that to happen is further hurt…so thanks Gem, You really are a precious GEM
Shabbychic
I am fighting the isolation right now, so much of me wants to hide away in shame…that I let myself be treated so badly…it’s disgusting.
14 years with a narcissus…then an S for you…awful
the way you spent time with your brother sounds so HONEST, that’s what comes across from you, you are big enough just be small!! and just say it like it is…I am leaning on your re assurance that things will be okay…I’m going over to my parents, (both in their 80s) I appreciate them to day. I want to hang out with them because I’m lonely and they are lonely and maybe we can just put the past aside and find solace in the fact we all still care and love eachother at the end of the day.
the P however is the same as ever appparently. “in one door and out the other” is how my friend, also his next door neighbour describes him.
She is going to help me sell the house and things are beginning to move…I’m SO SCARED….crying heavily over the loss of the house, it was is so beautiful, birds and butterflies…wide open space, forest at the back…beach 10 minutes away….that was to be our little haven if it wasnt for the psychopath hiding in the shadows…with other plans, chilling plans that I am lucky to have escaped when I did. What I lost could have been trebled, quadrupled if I married him…but the loss must be heavy because I can barely stand up with grief.
I apologise for being so ME ME ME ME ME, I’m struggling, on a crazy emotional trip hanging on by the nails..the need for revenge is giving way to the need to express anger…so can I start by saying, I am really really angry….really really incredibly angry, so angry I get all hot in the head and face…my face has set into a sour grapes expression, battleaxe like and bitter, I have tension in my shoulders and neck…I woke up in the middle of the night not knowing where I was…and every time I come to…I have to remember the P and what happened all over again….Bless..have a good day all
Bulletproof, darling you dont need to apologise for being angry. Anger is a good healthy thing. I stuffed mine for over 25 years, and when my older spath daughter had her 3 kids, I had to keep it under wraps, and fake caring otherwise I wouldnt have got to see my precious Grandkids.
Actually I didnt know what was going on, i knew NOTHING about gaslighting, projection, mirroring, etc, all the spathy tricks, and had even started to believe my horible daughters who kept telling me I was the crazy one.It wasnt till I found LF a year ago,[last June,] that the scales started to fall from my eyes, and I finally started to see the tricks theyd been playing on me for YEARS and years. THEN, the anger started to surface, and even then, I felt guilty about the anger!
If you can find a quiet spot to scream, pound pillow, let it out!
You MUST get it out, or it will destroy you, and then guess whose won? the spath has. DONT give him that satisfaction.
Dont worry re your house. Youll get another house. When I left my ex, I only had the clothes I stood up in, and no money. I went to a psychic, and she told me everything would come to me, and it did.Trust God, He wont fail you. Hang on to Him, he wont let you down.Dont be scared. If God helped me, he will also help you, but you have to have a little bit of faith and trust.the spaths seem to win, really they never do. They are sad, sick creatures, half human. At least we can fel anger, grief, revenge, love, all the human emotions, they can only feel hate, envy,greed,anda kind of sick glee when they pull off a spathy con trick.Good luck, sweetheart, take heart, God has not let you down. have courage, thing s are always darkest before the dawn.Love and {{{HUGGS!!}} Mama Gem.XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Gemini and Bulletproof –
I don’t mean to horn in on your conversation, but I just wanted to say that I definitely agree with gemini’s last post. I did the same thing, stifled the anger to the point that I could not feel anymore, and for years I believed that I was as ‘bad’ as my Ns and Spaths were saying. Once I finally caught onto the games, after 36 years of abuse, I had no idea that I held so much anger in me.
Once my rage started to bubble to the surface, I was encouraged by friends to just let it go, and look for a way to be positive. But you can’t do that, until you’ve stopped feeling guilty about the anger you feel, and acknowledge your right to feel all that anger. You do have to process it, and get it out, and give the guilt back to the people who earned it.
Yes, we were all duped, but we can learn, grow, change – meanwhile the Ns and Spaths KNOW what they’re doing is wrong, on some level, and refuse to learn, AND they enjoy taking our basic rights away, while they tell us how bad WE are. I say BS. Let THEM carry all of that guilt for that. The way to shift the balance is inside yourself.
Honor your right to feel angry (just don’t act it out in a way that actually hurts anyone), honor your right to feel scared, and it can completely change how you relate to the situation and yourself. It requires accepting that you feel exactly what you feel, and that it’s okay to feel those things.
xo,
Psyche
bulletproof, psyche and gem have some great advice!
I’m on my way out the door, going to be gone all day.
I just wanted to say that, yes, things do get better! Lord knows I cried and cried, and sometimes still do. I felt that I started turning the anger to myself, I was so ashamed of myself, but I did the best I knew how AT THE TIME, I’m smarter now, just wish I could get my money back, but I can’t. I’m sorry you have to sell such a pretty house, it is a sad time for you.
You can start your healing by beginning to like yourself, love yourself, if even a little bit right now, the self respect will grow, we’re changing, like being turned inside out, a journey I have been on for a while, sometimes kicking and screaming, but I’m doing it. Hated myself too long, what a waste.
So let your anger out — even if it’s just tears!!! You’ll get better. Don’t be ashamed of yourself, you are a lovely, sweet person. We can’t let ONE person take away our power. God created us.