This is a big topic, and I fully intend to flesh it out in future posts. But allow me, here, to consider this question from the perspective of the work I do with couples. It is often surprisingly easy, from a couples therapy perspective, to weed out the narcissists from the non-narcissists; and more importantly, the salvageable from the unsalvageable narcissists.
Narcissists, as we know, will struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective. But let’s be clear: it is the reasons they struggle with this, not that they struggle with it, that signals their narcissism.
At the risk of oversimplifying, narcissists struggle to appreciate their partners’ perspective fundamentally because they are deeply self-centered; and their self-centeredness does not arise from a neuro-developmental disorder.
But why do narcissists struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective? Mainly, because to do so, in their experience, would concede the primacy—the overwhelming significance and importance—of their wants and needs.
For narcissistic personalities, the mere notion of others questioning the primacy of their experience is felt variously as insulting, outrageous, unacceptable, threatening and punishable.
In contrast, less narcissistic personalities are less threatened to consider their partners’ perspective, because they have a more equitable view of whose perspective matters. To be clear, for less narcissistic individuals, their perspective matters a lot, but their partners’ perspective also matters a lot.
But I want to be very clear: it’s not that less narcissistic personalities don’t take their own perspectives seriously, maybe even more seriously than their partners’; it’s just that they’re not inflexibly wedded to the idea that their experience—how they feel, how they think, what they want, what they need—is always, by definition, more important and valid than their partners’!
Believe it or not, this is a virtual litmus test for problem levels of narcissism. When I work with couples, I am interested to encourage, and then see, something very important. I’m interested to encourage, first of all, the idea that “validating” your partner’s experience is not the same as endorsing it, agreeing with it, or even, necessarily, fully understanding it.
And “validating” your partner’s experience certainly doesn’t obligate you to abandon your own, possibly very different perception of the situation.
And so I often discuss this model of validation with couples in some depth—especially, the idea that you can recognize your partner’s experience; be willing, interested and curious to appreciate, and better understand, your partner’s experience, from her perspective; and recognize the sanity and sense of your partner’s experience, again from her perspective, without any of this effort and interest requiring you to concede your own, and perhaps very different, experience of the situation.
As you can see, validating, in this model, is the process of recognizing your partner’s experience from her perspective. It is not a process, as noted, of necessarily agreeing with, or even fully understanding your partner; and most certainly—and I can’t stress this enough— it is not a contest of whose perceptions of any given situation are more accurate and right, versus less accurate and more wrong.
Many find this a liberating concept, as it can allow for a relaxation of a common and unhelpful defense: I can’t validate what you’re saying or feeling, because to do so would effectively invalidate my experience.
In other words, from the perspective I’m describing, it’s possible—indeed, with motivation and practice, surpisingly easy—to validate another’s experience without in the least invalidating your own. In fact, this is a model of validation that’s relatively easy to practice because it respects the integrity of one’s own perceptions and experiences.
Once the need for the above defense is removed—and I work hard with couples to remove it—the couple’s capacity to appreciate each others’ experiences of each other often improves significantly.
Partners discover that, because the integrity of their personal experience is preservable, they can actually listen to each others’ experiences with more interest, curiosity and less defensiveness.
In marriages in which some goodwill remains, partners who buy into the model of validation I’m describing often find themselves striving for even more—that is, more than merely endeavoring to listen to each other more effectively, they often find themselves striving to make their partner’s experiences less frustrating and more satisfying.
Conversely, where no goodwill remains in the relationship, everything I’m discussing becomes pretty much moot. Narcissist or not, the marriage, with no goodwill left, is almost certainly dead. It’s just awfully difficult to recover goodwill in a relationship when the “goodwill tank” begins in the therapist’s office with the arrow on empty.
In any case, what happens in my office is often very interesting. The highly narcissistic and, in extreme cases, sociopathic client, cannot do what I’m discussing. Specifically, he is unable, with sincerity and effectiveness, to apply the model of validation I’ve described.
I suggested above the reason for this: he is simply too deeply, inflexibly invested in the significance, if not superiority, of his experience to make enough room for genuine interest in his partners’ experience, even after he’s been introduced to, and given ample time to digest, the proposed model of validation.
That is, this model of validation still falls well short of his demands. Sure, it’s nice that his partner is making efforts to recognize and appreciate his experience from his perspective. He’ll certainly take that, but he wants more than that.
Not surprisingly, what’s necessary—that is, what he still insists on and continues to demand—is his partner’s total capitulation to his way of seeing things.
This is the essence of his narcissism or, if you prefer, his deep, immutable self-centeredness.
Will these individuals show their cards immediately? More often than not, yes. More often than not, whether in my office or outside it (between therapy sessions), they’ll demonstrate, sooner than later, their inability to apply the kind of mutual validation under discussion.
But what about the smooth manipulator? It’s true that a smooth operator, a sociopath, for instance, can fake this process for some time, if he perceives it’s in his selfish interest to do so. (By “fake it,” I mean that he may seem to grasp it, apply it, and be invested in it.)
Yet, in my experience, even the manipulative individual masquerading as sensivitely invested in this form of validating communication, will almost always, sooner than later, reveal chinks in his mask; almost always, sooner than later, he’ll lapse into the highly self-centered attitudes and behaviors of the classic narcissist—attitudes and behaviors characterized by high, rationalized levels of under-accountability and non-transparency.
And so, while the slick manipulator may “get over” for a while, it’s usually not for long. That is, while he may present, initially, as reasonable, flexible and motivated, sooner than later his disguise will fray, revealing his true agenda in the forms of his usual presumptions and entitlement to ongoing gratification.
And so who is the salvageable partner? Narcissist or not, I’d venture to suggest he’s the partner capable of understanding, and appreciating, the concept of validation I propose.
He will be highly motivated to apply it, which is to say, willing to work hard, consistently and sustainedly at applying it; and, of course, he must be capable of applying it.
But the nice thing is, if he’s willing to work hard at it, he’ll definitely succeed.
In which case he won’t be a narcissist or, at the very least, his narcissism will prove to have been less extreme, and less emotionally crippling, than we might have feared.
(This article, the first of several impending articles on this subject, is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns in this article was purely for convenience’s sake. Females are also capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
BJay,
I can relate. When I came back here from far away I thought I was returning to an old best friend from HS. She’d written and been in touch over the years. She encouraged me so to come.
I came dragging a sick child and an upside down life and when I got here, she immediately flew into a rage and accused me of having an affair with her partner which was far from the truth.
I’ve never heard a woman be so viscous – the things she said.
I was polite on the phone giving her time to calm down and accept that she’d gone too far.
And then I hung up the phone thinking “I don’t have time for this shit”. Whatever this deal is, uh uh.
Spend your love wisely – your minutes are precious and it sounds like you recognize that.
When we write our book, won’t it be full of wisdom for the younger ones who probably won’t read it?
Sometimes we just have to let go and walk away. Pain isn’t a badge, its a burden. And that shift of perception makes all the difference. I think its something that we learn from the disordered so that we can go on after they are gone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4kY4Y9gjqw
Oxy…thank you for the advice.. I am going to be so careful this time around. I feel so suspicious…but I wasn’t ever enough and then when I found things out…I was shocked!!! I don’t need anymore shocks to my system! THATS for sure. Thanks again!
silvermoom,
I was polite when the ex-friend called, telling me our friendship was over. Thinking about it now, I wish that I’d had your healthy response, saying, “I don’t have time for this chit” and moved on. Pain is a heavy burden, on our shoulders day-and-night. I just can’t imagine or see how anyone who has experienced so much trauma can ever fully recover – it all weighs on you HEAVILY. Somehow, I am at the point where I wonder if this is all I’ll experience the rest of my life, unsafe people coming into my life to wreak more damage. If that’s the case, I’ll be a hermit.
What a person does for a living doesn’t mean they apply that knowledge to themselves—I’ve known psychotherapists that were Psychopaths, I’ve known cops and doctors who were, and ministers, so no one is exempt by terms of employment or education. Sometimes I think Ns and Ps pick a “lofty” position of authority to mask their real intentions.
And, hey “what do you call a physician that finished LAST in his medical school class? WHY, DOCTOR, OF COURSE.”
So you know not all mechanics are = and not all psychologists or doctors are either, I know though that the GOOD psychologists and psychotherapists and psychiatrists are TOPS in my book, and the nut jobs among them are just like the nut jobs in any other profession, pieces of carp!
As far as “friends” who will dump you like a “hot potato” when the going gets rough, you know I think that is unexpected, but in a way easier than those that stab you in the back, at least with the ones that dump you even unexpectedly you know what to expect from then on! You don’t have to WONDER!
Oxy, I get very nervous and suspicious of course, if anyone that is older than 40 + doesn’t know about evil folks in this world. You know, those dense heads that say, “what are you talking about, he or she is so nice” … that to me, is the ultimate gas lighting of an evil person pretending to be naive.
All my bosses had Ph.D.s and higher. Over the course of 24 + years, I worked with most of them. I would eventually come around to why they got their Ph.D.’s. Most frequent answer to this question … they took psychology classes in college to learn about themselves. Because the answer wasn’t an instant fix, they took more classes … low and behold, their college years were over … and they ended up graduating with a Ph.D. Not because they wanted to help others, they wanted to figure out why they couldn’t feel, why they weren’t “Normal”, why they didn’t care about others etc.
Yes, Ph.D.s … Piled Higher and Deeper.
Speaking of Ph.D.’s I have a friend from high school who’s going to graduate with her Ph.D…
She tracked me down, not too long ago, and BOY was she a cold, snobby b*tch.
Maybe there is some link between narcissism and Ph.D.’s. They can’t possibly be sociopaths, because sociopaths are kinda “low rent” parasites with small attention spans, from what I’ve learned and experienced.
PureWaters2,
Yes, Ph.Ds can be sociopaths. My ex is–he went far beyond narcissism. A narcissist usually won’t set out to destroy you, won’t bother. Won’t take pleasure in your suffering. Won’t bother gaslighting. My ex claimed he had a “sub-personality” named Sam. And he wasn’t responsible for “anything Sam did.” So, choking me while I had a cervical collar on (following a car wreck)? Didn’t happen, or if it did, and he wasn’t going to say it did, then Sam did it, so talk to Sam.
Crazy stuff—talking to Sam while looking at the ex. I could go on and on and on. And he was a low rent parasite. He had no empathy at all–would step on a kitten (and did–killed it–said he did that as an “experiment in behavioral animal psychology” or some BS like that). And threatened to kill himself in front of me, showed me the shotgun he bought which he fondly referred to as his “people killer.”
The degree means NOTHING. He wanted the title and insisted on being addressed as Dr. X all the time. And very proud of his ability to be cold and unemotional–claimed that was what he learned so he could be a therapist. Except other times he called it “detachment” and said it was a result of years of meditating. Right. Whatever.
He is a sociopath. His kids have nothing to do with him. He bullied his patients and said it was for their own good. Promoted himself as a transpersonal guru. Very cunning and very destructive.
Even he said just about anyone with the time and money and reasonable intelligence could get a PhD. Oh, and money? I bought my clothes on eBay…he is wealthy (inheritance) but “didn’t believe” in spending money on anyone else. Would make me go shopping with him for his clothes at high end stores, so I could watch him spend a few thousand bucks…while I wore used sandals and clothes. Thing is, he ENJOYED that, found that disparity “interesting from a sociological viewpoint.”
The degree means nothing. Lack of a degree means nothing.
My sister emphasized her ‘Dr.’ title also..
It is all so phoney and used to manipulate and to have domination over others lives..
Now, that I think about it, I have never met someone in that profession that I trusted… they are trying to phyche you out and put you in a category..
So think about ‘their’ contrived control over others.. and you pay them lots to listen to your troubles…
Kinda interesting.. huh? related to the subject matter and the whole reason for this site..
And I have not been in therapy with anyone that really helped me.. I read and evaluated and dug deep in myself to klean some awareness as to why…
The psychiatrist that I went to for my sexual harrassment lawsuit was charged with shop lifting and lost her license for giving out too many perscriptions…
So what exactly is this whole thing with this profession..?
Sure, their are people that need medication for chemical embalances but other than that.. has there really been much change related to ‘talk’ theraphy..?? I bet not much.. and how lasting is it… ??
Just saying… sure awareness can be kleaned but can it be incorporated into behavioral changes?
And after what I have been though with all my giving and caring and trying and waiting and hoping and doing without and putting others first.. I WANT TO BE A NARCISSIST…
Analyze THAT!
Style1,
I don’t believe talk therapy works. Has anyone been cured by therapy, anyways???
I went to a therapist once who seemed to be educated, until she brought out a floating star magic wand with one of those plastic finger characters on the end of it…
We were just about to start hypnosis, and then I stopped going…
Oh well.
Anyways. Yeah, I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m pretty sure after almost 3 decades of making “me” it would take, at least, that long to fix me. So… most likely I can’t afford it and I just can’t go to therapy that long!
Besides, my luck, (after getting better), I’d bump into another sociopath and get messed up, all over again!
I get you about the narcissism thing, but quite honestly, narcissists and sociopaths are truly the most ridiculous and pathetic of all creatures (imo) serving little purpose other than to exploit and harm humankind…
So, if I had to choose, be a humble victim type or a victimizer, I’d choose my spot.
Which is convenient.