This is a big topic, and I fully intend to flesh it out in future posts. But allow me, here, to consider this question from the perspective of the work I do with couples. It is often surprisingly easy, from a couples therapy perspective, to weed out the narcissists from the non-narcissists; and more importantly, the salvageable from the unsalvageable narcissists.
Narcissists, as we know, will struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective. But let’s be clear: it is the reasons they struggle with this, not that they struggle with it, that signals their narcissism.
At the risk of oversimplifying, narcissists struggle to appreciate their partners’ perspective fundamentally because they are deeply self-centered; and their self-centeredness does not arise from a neuro-developmental disorder.
But why do narcissists struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective? Mainly, because to do so, in their experience, would concede the primacy—the overwhelming significance and importance—of their wants and needs.
For narcissistic personalities, the mere notion of others questioning the primacy of their experience is felt variously as insulting, outrageous, unacceptable, threatening and punishable.
In contrast, less narcissistic personalities are less threatened to consider their partners’ perspective, because they have a more equitable view of whose perspective matters. To be clear, for less narcissistic individuals, their perspective matters a lot, but their partners’ perspective also matters a lot.
But I want to be very clear: it’s not that less narcissistic personalities don’t take their own perspectives seriously, maybe even more seriously than their partners’; it’s just that they’re not inflexibly wedded to the idea that their experience—how they feel, how they think, what they want, what they need—is always, by definition, more important and valid than their partners’!
Believe it or not, this is a virtual litmus test for problem levels of narcissism. When I work with couples, I am interested to encourage, and then see, something very important. I’m interested to encourage, first of all, the idea that “validating” your partner’s experience is not the same as endorsing it, agreeing with it, or even, necessarily, fully understanding it.
And “validating” your partner’s experience certainly doesn’t obligate you to abandon your own, possibly very different perception of the situation.
And so I often discuss this model of validation with couples in some depth—especially, the idea that you can recognize your partner’s experience; be willing, interested and curious to appreciate, and better understand, your partner’s experience, from her perspective; and recognize the sanity and sense of your partner’s experience, again from her perspective, without any of this effort and interest requiring you to concede your own, and perhaps very different, experience of the situation.
As you can see, validating, in this model, is the process of recognizing your partner’s experience from her perspective. It is not a process, as noted, of necessarily agreeing with, or even fully understanding your partner; and most certainly—and I can’t stress this enough— it is not a contest of whose perceptions of any given situation are more accurate and right, versus less accurate and more wrong.
Many find this a liberating concept, as it can allow for a relaxation of a common and unhelpful defense: I can’t validate what you’re saying or feeling, because to do so would effectively invalidate my experience.
In other words, from the perspective I’m describing, it’s possible—indeed, with motivation and practice, surpisingly easy—to validate another’s experience without in the least invalidating your own. In fact, this is a model of validation that’s relatively easy to practice because it respects the integrity of one’s own perceptions and experiences.
Once the need for the above defense is removed—and I work hard with couples to remove it—the couple’s capacity to appreciate each others’ experiences of each other often improves significantly.
Partners discover that, because the integrity of their personal experience is preservable, they can actually listen to each others’ experiences with more interest, curiosity and less defensiveness.
In marriages in which some goodwill remains, partners who buy into the model of validation I’m describing often find themselves striving for even more—that is, more than merely endeavoring to listen to each other more effectively, they often find themselves striving to make their partner’s experiences less frustrating and more satisfying.
Conversely, where no goodwill remains in the relationship, everything I’m discussing becomes pretty much moot. Narcissist or not, the marriage, with no goodwill left, is almost certainly dead. It’s just awfully difficult to recover goodwill in a relationship when the “goodwill tank” begins in the therapist’s office with the arrow on empty.
In any case, what happens in my office is often very interesting. The highly narcissistic and, in extreme cases, sociopathic client, cannot do what I’m discussing. Specifically, he is unable, with sincerity and effectiveness, to apply the model of validation I’ve described.
I suggested above the reason for this: he is simply too deeply, inflexibly invested in the significance, if not superiority, of his experience to make enough room for genuine interest in his partners’ experience, even after he’s been introduced to, and given ample time to digest, the proposed model of validation.
That is, this model of validation still falls well short of his demands. Sure, it’s nice that his partner is making efforts to recognize and appreciate his experience from his perspective. He’ll certainly take that, but he wants more than that.
Not surprisingly, what’s necessary—that is, what he still insists on and continues to demand—is his partner’s total capitulation to his way of seeing things.
This is the essence of his narcissism or, if you prefer, his deep, immutable self-centeredness.
Will these individuals show their cards immediately? More often than not, yes. More often than not, whether in my office or outside it (between therapy sessions), they’ll demonstrate, sooner than later, their inability to apply the kind of mutual validation under discussion.
But what about the smooth manipulator? It’s true that a smooth operator, a sociopath, for instance, can fake this process for some time, if he perceives it’s in his selfish interest to do so. (By “fake it,” I mean that he may seem to grasp it, apply it, and be invested in it.)
Yet, in my experience, even the manipulative individual masquerading as sensivitely invested in this form of validating communication, will almost always, sooner than later, reveal chinks in his mask; almost always, sooner than later, he’ll lapse into the highly self-centered attitudes and behaviors of the classic narcissist—attitudes and behaviors characterized by high, rationalized levels of under-accountability and non-transparency.
And so, while the slick manipulator may “get over” for a while, it’s usually not for long. That is, while he may present, initially, as reasonable, flexible and motivated, sooner than later his disguise will fray, revealing his true agenda in the forms of his usual presumptions and entitlement to ongoing gratification.
And so who is the salvageable partner? Narcissist or not, I’d venture to suggest he’s the partner capable of understanding, and appreciating, the concept of validation I propose.
He will be highly motivated to apply it, which is to say, willing to work hard, consistently and sustainedly at applying it; and, of course, he must be capable of applying it.
But the nice thing is, if he’s willing to work hard at it, he’ll definitely succeed.
In which case he won’t be a narcissist or, at the very least, his narcissism will prove to have been less extreme, and less emotionally crippling, than we might have feared.
(This article, the first of several impending articles on this subject, is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns in this article was purely for convenience’s sake. Females are also capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
Dang girl….I was a pill popping, alcoholic, cancer faking- mentally Ill person……
I think I would prefer Nudist camp hanger outer….sexing up strangers……kinda girl!
The visual is much nicer……I picture a dandelion wreath on your head with long flowing hair, blowing in the wind, skipping through the trees….
Nothing like what he wants anyone to believe….(if that helps). 🙂
(REMEMBER TO KEEP LAUGHING…..it will see you through this ugly time)
It’s all relative…….this is JUST the beginning of his attempts at the punishment.
And remember….YOU can’t do anything to ‘save’ your daughter….SHE MUST SEE IT FOR HERSELF!!!!!!!
Rest assured…..she will……..she’s a teen!
Statistics say…..12-14 year old girls have a desire to live with their father…..AND it is the worst thing a man could do while he is in the middle of a divorec…..because THEY ALWAYS turn against their fathers…..run back to mom and start ‘chatting’ up all dads secrets.
Young teen girls like to ‘throw’ themselves into the ‘mix’ of the drama of a divorece and have some sort of ‘control’ over both parties……it doens’t last…..and it ALWAYS backfires!!!
If she’s hellbent to go live with pops…..see ya!
Erin,
Damn, IT’S WAR.
How do I go in court tomorrow? With lawyer? Wear pants? Smile? Macara, lipstick look good? I don’t want to look like a dish rag. Just nice.
It is a no fault state. He is a complete idiot. Thanks for making me laugh about the dandelions in hair skipping through tres–nothing like that. So yes I see what you say it’s a moot point–because alas there is no video of me screwing the NY Giants team.
As for daughter. She is 16. She is doing great in school–excellent grades, well adjusted, stable, doing great in sports, and we have a close relationship, whereas she was clled her dad to me “weird” and joked that a temmate trumped herwith her dad who’s more weird. She’s also told me she hid under the bed scared of him once getting ready for school (kindergarten) when he used to take her, which I never knew till now.
She mentioned also that he might move, meaning she’d go to another school in another town. Hello? Would she really want to leave her friends and coach. I highly doubt it.
Erin, it IS just the beginning at attempts at punishment. But how do I fend it off?
He’s said in discovery inquiry that I am making communication difficult by putting child in middle–because I refuse to have ANY contact with him. I simply ask her who do you want to take you to XY tournament, me or dad, then she texts shim. Period. He has full access to her at alal times.
GOD I HATE THIS MAN.
If you are around still, please give me tips about keeping my emotional cool. How do I stay calm? To show him I am not “jumping” anytime he pushes a button. Fa%^rkin’ arsehole!!!!!
Ah, yes, my name serves me now–IT IS A WAR.
WARRIOR:
GET THAT BOTTLE OF EB MOJO OFF THE SHELF and lather it all over…….
Now…..realize ….WHAT it is…..
I knew spath would expect me to go looking ‘hot’ to court……and I also knew he would go decked to the nines in the green suit and all…..(he did)….looked great all swollen and tanned….claiming not able to work…..Uh, yeah….no one bought that!
So…..I ‘counter controlled’ him….and I went frumpy, soccer mom, conservative librarian…..no flash, no jewelry, no pearls….a puke green motherly sweater with slacks and geek heels, hair off my face….(no dandelion wreaths)….but left down.
Don’t worry about looking hot….who cares…..who cares what HE thinks…..it’s all about the judges impression.
YOU DON”T FEND IT OFF……Don’t recognize ANY of his accusations……it DOESN”T MATTER….and you’ll only spend more money in ‘riff raff’ crap.
Your in a NO FAULT state…..meaning you both go in with a 50/50 expectation……and if you ‘deserve’ more or an inequitable distribution of assets….then you must PROVE why. He’s alienated his liability to the mortgage by neglecting to contribute….stuff like that….show where it came out of YUOUR funds…insurance too….
This is what matters….
Only monetary facts, shown.
It does NOT matter who/what/when/where…unless there is misappropriation of assets, community waste, etc……
The more he writes in court docs about dancing hippie nakedness and funky sexcapades…..the more HE IS EXPOSING HIMSELF!!!!
Let it happen my dear…….
Emotional cool….is a mindset. FAKE IT TILL YOU MAKE IT DARLEN….I’ts the only way.
Find a person you admire in real life….and mimic that for the time you get out of your car…..to the time you get back in…..
BECOME THAT COOL/CALM/COLLECTED person….
THIS IS IMPERATIVE!!!!!!
No eye rolls, smirks, gasps, coughing bullshit, eyebrow raises….NOTHING…become a likeable STONE.
Sit in the mirror and PRACTICE THIS TONIGHT….find a look that is good to you…..and memorize it.
Take a notpad, take notes……
I will tell you….from what you post, you are putting way toooooooo much emotion into ‘what’ he says…….and NOT taking control of YOUR divorce.
this isn’t HIS divorece…..it’s YOURS!!!!!
GOod luck!!!
DancingWarrior
in order to be calm, feel your feelings safely to people who can hear and respect your situation…feel the hatred and find a way to express it (not to him obviously, it will be proof for him how unstable you are) I would keep it very factual with your lawyer and gather up your strength for the fight of your life.
Remain true to yourself, stick to the truth as you ‘feel’ it, substanstiate your side of things and remember you have the power because you feel things, he does not….he will slip up and show his colors only if you don’t provide a “crazy woman distraction”
something he is actively setting up now, to pull you apart. The P did that very effectively with me, he was so cruel I began to disintegrate. You need to HOLD IT TOGETHER for the courts, and LET IT OUT in private, or here on LF, or with a friend who won’t judge you for it.
There’s the child side inside you saying “it’s not so bad” time to scoop her up and tell her it’s bad, it’s very bad and you are going to take care of it now, so that this abuse stops and then you have a chance to heal.
He is trying to scare you so you will back down, time to stand your ground as calmly as that deep lake you described, so that nothing he says ruffles you , find the place inside you that knows all is well and trust in yourself to be able to handle this…good luck, blessings and courage.
Thanks ErinB.
I have a yoga teacher who is happy, confident, light, and solid strong. What I like is unflinching eye contact that says “you cannot mess with me. I can and I will take you down”, without being aggressive. I like that.
I may go listen to her voice on ipod and take it in so I can try to embody her presence tomorrow.
COOL CALM COLLECTED person–yes, thanks. I was so rattled by his garbage. I have to change that “unfair” victim habit, like he has any power over me that I let him have for years. It’s not true anymore and he is panicking.
A role model is also my cat who died–he was SO cool, so peaceful, but inside FIERCE and would change the mellow zen peace into claws in a nano second. That’s a lesson for me–peaceful belly breathing when there is no threat, just WIND from his foul talk.
Bullet,
Yeah, it is very bad.
THank you.
dancingwarrior – you are a nice person. you are also an abused and oppressed person. leave all of these pieces of you at home tomorrow, inside, safe and protected. ’cause nice isn’t what you need to be.
you need to be a stealth heat seeking missile, there to protect you and yours.
do not try to ‘please’ anyone – not the court clerk or the lawyer or anyone.
when in doubt – do NOTHING – don’t react. if you can’t keep the gaze look directly at something innocuous and keep your body language neutral.
he has had too much of your spirit for too long and you have to fight. the most warrior like thing you can do tomorrow is to not react and not be shifted off your centre by his bs. let him bury himself with his stupid spathy crap. don’t you try to protect him ever again, by offering up a piece of yourself. sacrifical lamb time is OVER.
all these things you are pulling on from outside of you (EB’s mojo, the spirit of yoga, and the spirit of your cat) are things that are inside of you. You would not be able to see them if they were not. so, to hell with letting your fear of him rule you. take back your power; it is rightfully YOURS.
i wish you the VERY best for tomorrow. Big hugs.
one step
Dancing,
Ladies will wear a skirt and make a poised appearance.
If you have a white blouse with a collar and a blazer, the double points give yourmost powerful appearance.
Keep the color of the makeup neutral and avoid eyeshadow with perceptible color that is for date night, not court.
Keep jewelery to a single piece that is a compliment or accent to your outfit. A pearl necklace is good, if you have one.
Keep heels medium to low. No Stillettoes! Nothing racy. Just confident and poised appearance.
Practice speaking to the judge in the mirror tonight.
When you get there, imagine that they are all naked.
You will do fine.
Best!
Silver:
My attorney was a 5 foot nothing, 85 lb, red head with balls of steel.
She wore leopard print 5 inch stilettos to court.
I took one look at them and said to her….Woah…check you out!
She said….they were her court heels….if any client got out of line, you’d feel them on your foot!
Didn’t want to go from court to get the stiches…so I kept my mouth shut….and never got the wrath of her heels! 🙂
Silver,
I don’t have a blazer. What are double points? Is that two rows of buttons on the jacket?
I have a white button down shirt.
This won’t be in front of a judge. Two family masters lawyers, a man and a woman, and our two lawyers present the proposal/response to them. Then they consult alone, and make a recommendation to our lawyers for how to settle.
Even my fin. affidavit is still a DRAFT from last year when I worked with a mediator, that I gave my lawyer. I never had time to check all the details and revise any changes. I didn’t even know I was going to court tomorrow till tonight’s email. Lawyer told me ignore court notices till you hear from me, because until he gets a response from h’s lawyer re. discovery inquiry, he didn’t want to go to court.
In the discovery written inquiry, he didn’t list any other accounts, just added slander and how he’ll bring witnesses to trial, and added D’s ambivalence about who to live with. How did this “discovery” help me?
I don’t believe I will need to speak, as my lawyer can present the proposal to the masters, and then reply that I am not prepared to settle right now.
I think I need to consult a financial consultant who can see my fiancial picture, and what I need to live a similar lifestyle while kids is still in school, and pay for her college, then maybe I’ll know what exactly I am asking for. The lawyer really does NOT know or advise me about how to get to the other side and be financially stable.
One,
Generally I don’t feel prepared at all for tomorrow.
I feel like this family masters hearing is a formality to try to find middle ground toward settlement.
I just don’t feel confident or informed fully aside from knowing what I’ve proposed, and his answer that he’ll pay 0 alimony, and he won’t split house 60/40 but 50/50. Which is fine.
And I still don’t really know if he has more money than he says. And don’t want to go on a wild goose chase after somehting that might not exist.
I have ten years of tax returns, but I don’t know what they show, or how to look at them.