This is a big topic, and I fully intend to flesh it out in future posts. But allow me, here, to consider this question from the perspective of the work I do with couples. It is often surprisingly easy, from a couples therapy perspective, to weed out the narcissists from the non-narcissists; and more importantly, the salvageable from the unsalvageable narcissists.
Narcissists, as we know, will struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective. But let’s be clear: it is the reasons they struggle with this, not that they struggle with it, that signals their narcissism.
At the risk of oversimplifying, narcissists struggle to appreciate their partners’ perspective fundamentally because they are deeply self-centered; and their self-centeredness does not arise from a neuro-developmental disorder.
But why do narcissists struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective? Mainly, because to do so, in their experience, would concede the primacy—the overwhelming significance and importance—of their wants and needs.
For narcissistic personalities, the mere notion of others questioning the primacy of their experience is felt variously as insulting, outrageous, unacceptable, threatening and punishable.
In contrast, less narcissistic personalities are less threatened to consider their partners’ perspective, because they have a more equitable view of whose perspective matters. To be clear, for less narcissistic individuals, their perspective matters a lot, but their partners’ perspective also matters a lot.
But I want to be very clear: it’s not that less narcissistic personalities don’t take their own perspectives seriously, maybe even more seriously than their partners’; it’s just that they’re not inflexibly wedded to the idea that their experience—how they feel, how they think, what they want, what they need—is always, by definition, more important and valid than their partners’!
Believe it or not, this is a virtual litmus test for problem levels of narcissism. When I work with couples, I am interested to encourage, and then see, something very important. I’m interested to encourage, first of all, the idea that “validating” your partner’s experience is not the same as endorsing it, agreeing with it, or even, necessarily, fully understanding it.
And “validating” your partner’s experience certainly doesn’t obligate you to abandon your own, possibly very different perception of the situation.
And so I often discuss this model of validation with couples in some depth—especially, the idea that you can recognize your partner’s experience; be willing, interested and curious to appreciate, and better understand, your partner’s experience, from her perspective; and recognize the sanity and sense of your partner’s experience, again from her perspective, without any of this effort and interest requiring you to concede your own, and perhaps very different, experience of the situation.
As you can see, validating, in this model, is the process of recognizing your partner’s experience from her perspective. It is not a process, as noted, of necessarily agreeing with, or even fully understanding your partner; and most certainly—and I can’t stress this enough— it is not a contest of whose perceptions of any given situation are more accurate and right, versus less accurate and more wrong.
Many find this a liberating concept, as it can allow for a relaxation of a common and unhelpful defense: I can’t validate what you’re saying or feeling, because to do so would effectively invalidate my experience.
In other words, from the perspective I’m describing, it’s possible—indeed, with motivation and practice, surpisingly easy—to validate another’s experience without in the least invalidating your own. In fact, this is a model of validation that’s relatively easy to practice because it respects the integrity of one’s own perceptions and experiences.
Once the need for the above defense is removed—and I work hard with couples to remove it—the couple’s capacity to appreciate each others’ experiences of each other often improves significantly.
Partners discover that, because the integrity of their personal experience is preservable, they can actually listen to each others’ experiences with more interest, curiosity and less defensiveness.
In marriages in which some goodwill remains, partners who buy into the model of validation I’m describing often find themselves striving for even more—that is, more than merely endeavoring to listen to each other more effectively, they often find themselves striving to make their partner’s experiences less frustrating and more satisfying.
Conversely, where no goodwill remains in the relationship, everything I’m discussing becomes pretty much moot. Narcissist or not, the marriage, with no goodwill left, is almost certainly dead. It’s just awfully difficult to recover goodwill in a relationship when the “goodwill tank” begins in the therapist’s office with the arrow on empty.
In any case, what happens in my office is often very interesting. The highly narcissistic and, in extreme cases, sociopathic client, cannot do what I’m discussing. Specifically, he is unable, with sincerity and effectiveness, to apply the model of validation I’ve described.
I suggested above the reason for this: he is simply too deeply, inflexibly invested in the significance, if not superiority, of his experience to make enough room for genuine interest in his partners’ experience, even after he’s been introduced to, and given ample time to digest, the proposed model of validation.
That is, this model of validation still falls well short of his demands. Sure, it’s nice that his partner is making efforts to recognize and appreciate his experience from his perspective. He’ll certainly take that, but he wants more than that.
Not surprisingly, what’s necessary—that is, what he still insists on and continues to demand—is his partner’s total capitulation to his way of seeing things.
This is the essence of his narcissism or, if you prefer, his deep, immutable self-centeredness.
Will these individuals show their cards immediately? More often than not, yes. More often than not, whether in my office or outside it (between therapy sessions), they’ll demonstrate, sooner than later, their inability to apply the kind of mutual validation under discussion.
But what about the smooth manipulator? It’s true that a smooth operator, a sociopath, for instance, can fake this process for some time, if he perceives it’s in his selfish interest to do so. (By “fake it,” I mean that he may seem to grasp it, apply it, and be invested in it.)
Yet, in my experience, even the manipulative individual masquerading as sensivitely invested in this form of validating communication, will almost always, sooner than later, reveal chinks in his mask; almost always, sooner than later, he’ll lapse into the highly self-centered attitudes and behaviors of the classic narcissist—attitudes and behaviors characterized by high, rationalized levels of under-accountability and non-transparency.
And so, while the slick manipulator may “get over” for a while, it’s usually not for long. That is, while he may present, initially, as reasonable, flexible and motivated, sooner than later his disguise will fray, revealing his true agenda in the forms of his usual presumptions and entitlement to ongoing gratification.
And so who is the salvageable partner? Narcissist or not, I’d venture to suggest he’s the partner capable of understanding, and appreciating, the concept of validation I propose.
He will be highly motivated to apply it, which is to say, willing to work hard, consistently and sustainedly at applying it; and, of course, he must be capable of applying it.
But the nice thing is, if he’s willing to work hard at it, he’ll definitely succeed.
In which case he won’t be a narcissist or, at the very least, his narcissism will prove to have been less extreme, and less emotionally crippling, than we might have feared.
(This article, the first of several impending articles on this subject, is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns in this article was purely for convenience’s sake. Females are also capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
CAmom,
That’s really frightening that your ex had another personality named “sam”.
I do wonder if multiple personality disorder is related to anti-social personality disorder, in any way.
My ex would do things (claim not to remember) and act out as if those things never took place. It was really strange, but I realize now, the majority of that stuff was manipulation.
Style and Pure,
I think talk therapy can work if we have a good therapist and actually work at it–sitting in a chair and talking isn’t gonna do much if we don’t do the hard work of diving deep and looking at things we may not want to look at, then making some changes. No one can help us but us. A good therapist is, among other things, a facilitator.
And it does take time—as you said, Pure, it took a long time to make you, and takes a long time to change. But it’s worth it, we’re worth it. And it can be a lot of hard work.
Pure–the spath doesn’t have MPD. He said he’d “introjected” his father’s personality (father’s name is Sam–he’s literally the ‘son of Sam’ lol) so the part of him that was “bad” or whatever was a sub-personality. This is in line with his post-grad work and training in Psychosynthesis, although it’s a horrible perversion of Psychosynthesis—which he uses to his advantage when he needs to/wants to.
Since I have no training in Psychosynthesis I had no idea what he was talking about…then I educated myself on it and realized he was full of ****. The Sam thing was totally self-serving BS. Pure manipulation and a great tool for gaslighting. Talk to SAM? Are you kidding me? Gosh, I want a sub-personality I can blame everything on too! “Sorry officer, it wasn’t me speeding, it was my sub-personality. Give HER the ticket!”
Great way to avoid any responsibilty for anything. He said he had many sub-personalities—not just Sam. There was the one who had to be in control, the one who liked to get high, the one who was gay, the one who couldn’t remember anything, blah blah blah. Total mind-f**king BS. And if I was skeptical of his sub-personality theory then I was ignorant. Typical. Spaths can be sooooo boring, so predictable. But really dangerous, really destructive.
I knew from the tone of this article that it was another Steve Becker classic and I applaud you for discussing this topic. If more therapists actually stood up and said – there are certain relationships that are worth working on and some that ar enot and here are the signs – well relationships with sociopaths sure wouldn’t last as long as they do.
I went to several therapists and counsellors looking for an outside view of what was happening in the dynamic between us but none of them would comment. None of them would say – this guy doesn’t appear to want to work on himself for the sake of the relationship so if you can’t accept what he’s offering then you better get out.
All of them waded into individual psychology – delving into my father issues and how these were probably at the root of trust issues I had with him. Had they considered the environment I was living in and asked the right questions they would have got a horror picture of the most toxic and life threatening relationship possible. But my ex was one of the smooth operators you describe above – so the problem was stated as ‘my anger’ – not the lies and deceit and broken promises he had made that aroused the anger.
Perhaps had we attended therapy for a long time he would have let his mask slip to the shrink, but he had subtle ways of undermining any efforts I made in this area – he would dispara.ge the therapist and their abilities, education or experience. Or he would change int he short term and announce that therapy was no longer required as he ‘got it’ or he would magically be unavailable for appointments scheduled in advance due to URGENT other committments that coincidentally fell at the very same time as appointments. It became too hard to keep pushing the issue to go so eventually I would give up and therapy would stop – life would go back to the regular status quo. Highly manipulative
All that time I was looking for someone to just tell me to stay or go – I even asked friends and family for their input and they would always back off and say ‘It’s up to you – nothing to do with me’. I didn’t have the presence of mind or confidence to make the decision on my own – I thought because he hadn’t hit me I didn’t really have an excuse to leave – being depressed tot he point of suicide wasn’t reason enough to end a miserable marriage. It truly was like being under an enchantment and walking around like an unthinking zombie. At times now it’s quite hard to cope with the barrage of thoughts that race through my mind.
Anyways – thanks for the article – it got me thinking about this topic. I’m so glad there are therapists like you out there who truly ‘get it’ about this disorder.
Just like there are bad nurses, bad physicians, bad cops, bad politicians, bad lawyers and in every other profession, we can’t judge the whole profession by a few flakes. We just have to educate ourselves enough that if we go to a professional that we either get another professsional second opinion or we realize they are incompetent.
If you break your leg and the bone is sticking out and the doctor says “put a band aid on it and seem me tomorrow” you have a pretty good idea to go somewhere else. “Buyer Beware” it is up to US to know something about what we need.
Unfortunately too many people don’t educate themselves about what might be the right “treatment”
The couple of times that we saw a therapist, I could see things from my h-spath’s perspective, but he had a hard time doing the same, putting himself “in my shoes.” When I think about him, his mind seems blunted, like he can’t explore things too deeply.
The responses to Steve’s article are off track from the original content. The article is not focused on the mere value of therapy or a talented therapist versus a fraudulent one.
I understand articles provoke so many branches of thought but here we are looking at spouses , partners , etc – LIKE ME – who never knew when to fish or cut bait – AND STILL WONDER IF WE COULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY.
Those of us who have truly loved a person with NPD have seen an unbearable amount of pain, deceit , discarding – the complete works – all the while thinking it may be US.
Steve is dispelling those hopes, those dreams and wishes of “IF ONLY ” to clear our paths for healing.
A bad therapist can’t help you anymore than a bad doctor, mechanic or house painter.
But an excellent one – like we have in Steve – is invaluable to a BROKEN HEART and shattered lives. And if you are trying to co-parent – it’s a life sentence .
Today’s article will serve to alert those here still in the fog to address the dreaded thoughts of “nothing I’ve done has changed anything in our relationship. What am I missing .”
And if you don’t understand the “PSYCHO BABBLE” – none of which is used in this article – you will never understand the personality you are dealing with.
And even as those facts penetrate our minds – it remains difficult and challenging to understand the “disconnections ” that exist in the one we loved.
Pollyannanomore, thanks very much for your appreciative response.
Newlife, thanks so much for articulating, so eloquently and supportively, how, at least, I wanted this article to be useful. I couldn’t have expressed my purpose better. Have a great weekend.
Steve,
this is a great post. It rings true with everything that I’ve experienced, as well as my attempts to find ways to distinguish between the hopeless narcissists in my life, and those who are, as you put it so well ‘salvageable’.
I haven’t found that I can cut people out of my life at the first sign of dishonesty, emotional rigidity, egoism, self-centeredness, etc. I mean, there would be no one left, if I did that. And I’d be a lonely hypocrite if I did that, given that I’m imperfect, and made my slip ups for good and bad reasons throughout the years. I’ve been working on ways to identify differences between people who just have human weaknesses and flaws (but who are capable of growth and improvement) and those sad souls we call narcissists, who truly are not salvageable.
I’ve found that there are some ugly truths that a narcissist cannot hide about himself. I’ve put it in other words here on the site, but it does boil down to whether or not a person can sincerely validate their partner’s experience. A narcissist cannot – he simply cannot. It is his blindspot, his Achilles heal. He cannot cover up this one fundamental flaw, if he’s a true narcissist. He does not recognize this as his fundamental flaw on any conscious level, so he does not realize he needs to cover it. It’s the one thing he can’t fake.
As a person with a lifelong pattern of attracting narcissists into her life, I’ve had to develop ways to ‘suss out’ whether someone I’m dealing with is capable of the skill you name – validation – it’s a skill that is essential to a healthy relationship, and it’s exactly what a narcissist cannot do. For me, it’s where the line gets drawn. Can they or can’t they empathize with and sincerely validate another person’s perspective (as you said, this does not necessarily require them to capitulate their viewpoint)?
In my dealings with people who are otherwise pretty good at appearing normal, healthy and emotionally invested in their relationships (narcissists), it’s this ‘validation/empathy factor’ that helps me know what I’m truly dealing with.
Thanks for a great post.
Psyche
Wanted to clarify one thing – the narcissist cannot fake it (ability to validate) when another’s perspective comes into conflict with his own. Otherwise, he can certainly fake it.
Also, that’s Achilles’ heel, not Achilles heal 😉
Mine ex used to refer to himself in the third person..
disassociate from self.. he meditated all the time.. considered himself some guru that could look down on himself and his current life..
and I have oberved others that do this.. this is a clear sign that ‘something’ is off with a person..
Also, about accsations of getting off topic.. there are threads on here that get so off topic as in writing about what they are cooking.. or farm animals or the weather and many other things such as this..
This is a forum to discuss.. and all this psychology is just that.. opinion.. so if put out there .. it is fair to give opinion..
The just of this article is that some can have awareness and others not.. DUH!
But it takes a whole lot to bring awareness to an individual including self.. and the person must want the clarity and awareness in order to shift and implement change and I have seen alot and have seen little of it..
Adults for the most part are who that they will be.. and the profession of ‘psychology’ is not a science .. it is something ever evoling … and many use this ‘psychology’ to rule, dominate and control others and to feel ‘superior in their self-proclaimed insights or ‘knowledge’..
There is nothing wrong in bringing all this out on a site such as this.. as actually it promotes the path to more awareness of manipulation tactics…