This is a big topic, and I fully intend to flesh it out in future posts. But allow me, here, to consider this question from the perspective of the work I do with couples. It is often surprisingly easy, from a couples therapy perspective, to weed out the narcissists from the non-narcissists; and more importantly, the salvageable from the unsalvageable narcissists.
Narcissists, as we know, will struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective. But let’s be clear: it is the reasons they struggle with this, not that they struggle with it, that signals their narcissism.
At the risk of oversimplifying, narcissists struggle to appreciate their partners’ perspective fundamentally because they are deeply self-centered; and their self-centeredness does not arise from a neuro-developmental disorder.
But why do narcissists struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective? Mainly, because to do so, in their experience, would concede the primacy—the overwhelming significance and importance—of their wants and needs.
For narcissistic personalities, the mere notion of others questioning the primacy of their experience is felt variously as insulting, outrageous, unacceptable, threatening and punishable.
In contrast, less narcissistic personalities are less threatened to consider their partners’ perspective, because they have a more equitable view of whose perspective matters. To be clear, for less narcissistic individuals, their perspective matters a lot, but their partners’ perspective also matters a lot.
But I want to be very clear: it’s not that less narcissistic personalities don’t take their own perspectives seriously, maybe even more seriously than their partners’; it’s just that they’re not inflexibly wedded to the idea that their experience—how they feel, how they think, what they want, what they need—is always, by definition, more important and valid than their partners’!
Believe it or not, this is a virtual litmus test for problem levels of narcissism. When I work with couples, I am interested to encourage, and then see, something very important. I’m interested to encourage, first of all, the idea that “validating” your partner’s experience is not the same as endorsing it, agreeing with it, or even, necessarily, fully understanding it.
And “validating” your partner’s experience certainly doesn’t obligate you to abandon your own, possibly very different perception of the situation.
And so I often discuss this model of validation with couples in some depth—especially, the idea that you can recognize your partner’s experience; be willing, interested and curious to appreciate, and better understand, your partner’s experience, from her perspective; and recognize the sanity and sense of your partner’s experience, again from her perspective, without any of this effort and interest requiring you to concede your own, and perhaps very different, experience of the situation.
As you can see, validating, in this model, is the process of recognizing your partner’s experience from her perspective. It is not a process, as noted, of necessarily agreeing with, or even fully understanding your partner; and most certainly—and I can’t stress this enough— it is not a contest of whose perceptions of any given situation are more accurate and right, versus less accurate and more wrong.
Many find this a liberating concept, as it can allow for a relaxation of a common and unhelpful defense: I can’t validate what you’re saying or feeling, because to do so would effectively invalidate my experience.
In other words, from the perspective I’m describing, it’s possible—indeed, with motivation and practice, surpisingly easy—to validate another’s experience without in the least invalidating your own. In fact, this is a model of validation that’s relatively easy to practice because it respects the integrity of one’s own perceptions and experiences.
Once the need for the above defense is removed—and I work hard with couples to remove it—the couple’s capacity to appreciate each others’ experiences of each other often improves significantly.
Partners discover that, because the integrity of their personal experience is preservable, they can actually listen to each others’ experiences with more interest, curiosity and less defensiveness.
In marriages in which some goodwill remains, partners who buy into the model of validation I’m describing often find themselves striving for even more—that is, more than merely endeavoring to listen to each other more effectively, they often find themselves striving to make their partner’s experiences less frustrating and more satisfying.
Conversely, where no goodwill remains in the relationship, everything I’m discussing becomes pretty much moot. Narcissist or not, the marriage, with no goodwill left, is almost certainly dead. It’s just awfully difficult to recover goodwill in a relationship when the “goodwill tank” begins in the therapist’s office with the arrow on empty.
In any case, what happens in my office is often very interesting. The highly narcissistic and, in extreme cases, sociopathic client, cannot do what I’m discussing. Specifically, he is unable, with sincerity and effectiveness, to apply the model of validation I’ve described.
I suggested above the reason for this: he is simply too deeply, inflexibly invested in the significance, if not superiority, of his experience to make enough room for genuine interest in his partners’ experience, even after he’s been introduced to, and given ample time to digest, the proposed model of validation.
That is, this model of validation still falls well short of his demands. Sure, it’s nice that his partner is making efforts to recognize and appreciate his experience from his perspective. He’ll certainly take that, but he wants more than that.
Not surprisingly, what’s necessary—that is, what he still insists on and continues to demand—is his partner’s total capitulation to his way of seeing things.
This is the essence of his narcissism or, if you prefer, his deep, immutable self-centeredness.
Will these individuals show their cards immediately? More often than not, yes. More often than not, whether in my office or outside it (between therapy sessions), they’ll demonstrate, sooner than later, their inability to apply the kind of mutual validation under discussion.
But what about the smooth manipulator? It’s true that a smooth operator, a sociopath, for instance, can fake this process for some time, if he perceives it’s in his selfish interest to do so. (By “fake it,” I mean that he may seem to grasp it, apply it, and be invested in it.)
Yet, in my experience, even the manipulative individual masquerading as sensivitely invested in this form of validating communication, will almost always, sooner than later, reveal chinks in his mask; almost always, sooner than later, he’ll lapse into the highly self-centered attitudes and behaviors of the classic narcissist—attitudes and behaviors characterized by high, rationalized levels of under-accountability and non-transparency.
And so, while the slick manipulator may “get over” for a while, it’s usually not for long. That is, while he may present, initially, as reasonable, flexible and motivated, sooner than later his disguise will fray, revealing his true agenda in the forms of his usual presumptions and entitlement to ongoing gratification.
And so who is the salvageable partner? Narcissist or not, I’d venture to suggest he’s the partner capable of understanding, and appreciating, the concept of validation I propose.
He will be highly motivated to apply it, which is to say, willing to work hard, consistently and sustainedly at applying it; and, of course, he must be capable of applying it.
But the nice thing is, if he’s willing to work hard at it, he’ll definitely succeed.
In which case he won’t be a narcissist or, at the very least, his narcissism will prove to have been less extreme, and less emotionally crippling, than we might have feared.
(This article, the first of several impending articles on this subject, is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns in this article was purely for convenience’s sake. Females are also capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
SETTTLEMENTS – the games N/S ‘s love to play.
Had a meeting myself Tuesday – lies, lies and more.
He is hiding cash from his BBQ – I know this because he has paid a friend $45,000.00 in cash he owed him – but I can’t betray this confidence – so how do I use the info ?
He lied right to my face – why does it still amaze me how bold he can be ?
He is deliberately cheating me after all he has taken – He expects me at my age to take on a $240,000.00 mortgage – cares not to pay his own medical ins for the last 2 years , owes me back support and 50 % for all extras for the kids.
At first I pitied him because he looked at me so worn, older and downtrodden – I know – don’t yell at me – I should have no mercy.
But then when he lied right to my two green eyes – the anger welled back up in me tht he would dare – EVEN NOW – to take more and deceive me.
So now – I will ask for everything to be liquidated – the shore house and his BBQ – and we’ll determine how to split the proceeds.
Screw his little cah cow of a BBQ – if he insists it makes no money and I can’t prove otherwise – then it does me no good to calculate his CASH income for purposes of child support.
I’ll leave him with his 3 man construction business or he can get a job.
Dear Lord – what is he made of ??????????
If I didn’t work, make the money I do – he would not have been able to play the way he did – and he still has to screw me over ????
And his lawyer says I am angry – F’N RIGHT I AM !!!!!
DancingWarrior, they do love to violate the 9th COMMANDMENT Exodus 20:16 “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Actually, being on the evil path they are on, if they live long enough, they will violate all God’s commandments. Remember? Rules DO NOT pertain to them.
Oh, I can see that worm eating their heads until they are extinquished permanently.
The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked. (Jeremiah 17:9; see also Romans 3:9-18).
A wise man fears and departs from evil, but a fool rages and is self-confident. (Proverbs 14:16).
DW, What a smarmy BS merchant piece of bleep he is. I cant imagine how I would(or wouldnt!) cope with the sitch youre in:( Be Yourself,be single minded and sturdy, keep keeping your composure and dont buy into an ounce of his crap. x
Wini,
“He that troubleth his own house shall inherit the wind and the fool shall be the servant to the wise of heart” Proverbs
(the movie Inherit the Wind)
What has been consistent is that he is INCONSISTENT. Crazymaking, I don’t know if I’m coming or going, if it’s up or it’s down, if he I’m “treasure” or “garbage” in his view of course.
Blueskies,
HOnest to god with all my yrs of expeirnce of his throing in the monkey wrench, I still wonder if I am the unreasonable one to hang up on him. If I am the immature one who refuses to communicate.
One thing I see as my weakness though is that I AVOID talking to him (the NC policy), rather than CONFRONTING him and telling him off as deserved. I feel my NC is out of FEAR–fear of his emotional strings, or lies, or bullying, of being sucked in irrational thinking, of being confused, fear of losing my peace of mind.
I have to say NC has given me the peace and balance. If that means I am weak and afraid to confront him and deal with him from a neutral rational point of view–well, I have lots of work to do.
thanks for your perspective.
Want to share a movie with all: Fear and Trembling
It’s foreign. A Belgian woman born in Japan works in a Japanese corporation and adapts to the hierarchy/customs. As much as she seeks a deep personal connection with her direct boss a young woman like herself, a weird power play/tension emerges.
I think of you, silver, (are you around?) with Power of Now and the big ppicture why we are all essential in the universe… the ending was deep and moving, don’t want to reveal.
http://www.cinemaguild.com/fearandtrembling/
Check it out if you can and talk to me about it!
DancingWarrior,
If it helps, I have confronted my h-spath quite a few times, telling him off, and it went “in one ear and out the other”. It took me a while to figure out that they don’t like to be criticized, so they shut off, tune you out. No Contact (or limited contact in my case due to kids) is helpful because it helps us preserve our sanity, peace-of-mind. Telling them off is pointless because unlike normal people, they literally don’t care what they have put you through. It’s perplexing and maddening.
Hi Dancing,
Always enjoy a good film.
Will look for it, but don’t know if it would be the kind of thing easy to come by out here in the sticks….
Thanks for the thought.
Glad things are going well for you!
“Pleasure always arises from something outside of you whereas Joy arises from within”
Eckhardt Tolle
Bluejay,
I was reading about a hard criminal, in jail, who shot a cop just for coming to his car window and interrupting a romance with his g/f, then shot him several MORE times after he was dead. Even gangsters and hard core criminals see themselves as good and perfectly justified in their actions, and VICTIMS of others’ scorn of non-appreciation.
When I was in couples therapy I was frantic trying to “prove” the hurtful impact of his actions and my T would say, “If you want to have a day in court, ghen GO to court.” Alas, even when I do have a day in court, as I do now–the understanding, the acknowledgement will never come from him.
Yes, that’s just why there is no good result from engaging in dialogue. I got another message from him, “Will you please tell me WHY you won’t talk to me, and hang up on me, and won’t answer my emails?”
Good question!
Still, I feel so sad. I can’t not feel so sad at the situation.
Silver,
I got the movie from the public library. Possibly your state has interlibrary loans through Bibliomation or similar web tool and some library carries it.
It is quite interesting.
DW
No I need a film called ‘rage and power’ lol
last film I watched was called:
‘extraordinary measures’ It’s about the struggle against corporate bullshit and it carries you along, edge of seat where science eventualy meets heart.
oh make sure you have the tissues…..and the space to wail out loud…
His e-mails are very tempting to engage with, I can see that…wow it’s like he just “cannot understand” why YOU are so heartless not to talk with HIM…
keep with the sadness because thats your intuition, it’s terrible it really is. He is a very good manipulator which means you are being psychologically tortured and it’s only when the dialogue stops, so too does the torture…
blessings because it’s that tough, and really sad.
YOU have to be the one you go to at the end of the day, you must be compassionate with you, Accepting of you, respectful of you, encouraging to yourself, supportive to you and give yourself love and space to work this out.
silvermoon
that quote is speaking volumes to me!! I really want the joy flowing from the inside out, rather than the outside in…we just cannot rely on anyone anymore to “make” us happy. It’s an inside job. I can’t feel joy yet, I get glimpses, but I’m still too angry…still wading through the rage at what one ba$$tard can do to a life.