This is a big topic, and I fully intend to flesh it out in future posts. But allow me, here, to consider this question from the perspective of the work I do with couples. It is often surprisingly easy, from a couples therapy perspective, to weed out the narcissists from the non-narcissists; and more importantly, the salvageable from the unsalvageable narcissists.
Narcissists, as we know, will struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective. But let’s be clear: it is the reasons they struggle with this, not that they struggle with it, that signals their narcissism.
At the risk of oversimplifying, narcissists struggle to appreciate their partners’ perspective fundamentally because they are deeply self-centered; and their self-centeredness does not arise from a neuro-developmental disorder.
But why do narcissists struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective? Mainly, because to do so, in their experience, would concede the primacy—the overwhelming significance and importance—of their wants and needs.
For narcissistic personalities, the mere notion of others questioning the primacy of their experience is felt variously as insulting, outrageous, unacceptable, threatening and punishable.
In contrast, less narcissistic personalities are less threatened to consider their partners’ perspective, because they have a more equitable view of whose perspective matters. To be clear, for less narcissistic individuals, their perspective matters a lot, but their partners’ perspective also matters a lot.
But I want to be very clear: it’s not that less narcissistic personalities don’t take their own perspectives seriously, maybe even more seriously than their partners’; it’s just that they’re not inflexibly wedded to the idea that their experience—how they feel, how they think, what they want, what they need—is always, by definition, more important and valid than their partners’!
Believe it or not, this is a virtual litmus test for problem levels of narcissism. When I work with couples, I am interested to encourage, and then see, something very important. I’m interested to encourage, first of all, the idea that “validating” your partner’s experience is not the same as endorsing it, agreeing with it, or even, necessarily, fully understanding it.
And “validating” your partner’s experience certainly doesn’t obligate you to abandon your own, possibly very different perception of the situation.
And so I often discuss this model of validation with couples in some depth—especially, the idea that you can recognize your partner’s experience; be willing, interested and curious to appreciate, and better understand, your partner’s experience, from her perspective; and recognize the sanity and sense of your partner’s experience, again from her perspective, without any of this effort and interest requiring you to concede your own, and perhaps very different, experience of the situation.
As you can see, validating, in this model, is the process of recognizing your partner’s experience from her perspective. It is not a process, as noted, of necessarily agreeing with, or even fully understanding your partner; and most certainly—and I can’t stress this enough— it is not a contest of whose perceptions of any given situation are more accurate and right, versus less accurate and more wrong.
Many find this a liberating concept, as it can allow for a relaxation of a common and unhelpful defense: I can’t validate what you’re saying or feeling, because to do so would effectively invalidate my experience.
In other words, from the perspective I’m describing, it’s possible—indeed, with motivation and practice, surpisingly easy—to validate another’s experience without in the least invalidating your own. In fact, this is a model of validation that’s relatively easy to practice because it respects the integrity of one’s own perceptions and experiences.
Once the need for the above defense is removed—and I work hard with couples to remove it—the couple’s capacity to appreciate each others’ experiences of each other often improves significantly.
Partners discover that, because the integrity of their personal experience is preservable, they can actually listen to each others’ experiences with more interest, curiosity and less defensiveness.
In marriages in which some goodwill remains, partners who buy into the model of validation I’m describing often find themselves striving for even more—that is, more than merely endeavoring to listen to each other more effectively, they often find themselves striving to make their partner’s experiences less frustrating and more satisfying.
Conversely, where no goodwill remains in the relationship, everything I’m discussing becomes pretty much moot. Narcissist or not, the marriage, with no goodwill left, is almost certainly dead. It’s just awfully difficult to recover goodwill in a relationship when the “goodwill tank” begins in the therapist’s office with the arrow on empty.
In any case, what happens in my office is often very interesting. The highly narcissistic and, in extreme cases, sociopathic client, cannot do what I’m discussing. Specifically, he is unable, with sincerity and effectiveness, to apply the model of validation I’ve described.
I suggested above the reason for this: he is simply too deeply, inflexibly invested in the significance, if not superiority, of his experience to make enough room for genuine interest in his partners’ experience, even after he’s been introduced to, and given ample time to digest, the proposed model of validation.
That is, this model of validation still falls well short of his demands. Sure, it’s nice that his partner is making efforts to recognize and appreciate his experience from his perspective. He’ll certainly take that, but he wants more than that.
Not surprisingly, what’s necessary—that is, what he still insists on and continues to demand—is his partner’s total capitulation to his way of seeing things.
This is the essence of his narcissism or, if you prefer, his deep, immutable self-centeredness.
Will these individuals show their cards immediately? More often than not, yes. More often than not, whether in my office or outside it (between therapy sessions), they’ll demonstrate, sooner than later, their inability to apply the kind of mutual validation under discussion.
But what about the smooth manipulator? It’s true that a smooth operator, a sociopath, for instance, can fake this process for some time, if he perceives it’s in his selfish interest to do so. (By “fake it,” I mean that he may seem to grasp it, apply it, and be invested in it.)
Yet, in my experience, even the manipulative individual masquerading as sensivitely invested in this form of validating communication, will almost always, sooner than later, reveal chinks in his mask; almost always, sooner than later, he’ll lapse into the highly self-centered attitudes and behaviors of the classic narcissist—attitudes and behaviors characterized by high, rationalized levels of under-accountability and non-transparency.
And so, while the slick manipulator may “get over” for a while, it’s usually not for long. That is, while he may present, initially, as reasonable, flexible and motivated, sooner than later his disguise will fray, revealing his true agenda in the forms of his usual presumptions and entitlement to ongoing gratification.
And so who is the salvageable partner? Narcissist or not, I’d venture to suggest he’s the partner capable of understanding, and appreciating, the concept of validation I propose.
He will be highly motivated to apply it, which is to say, willing to work hard, consistently and sustainedly at applying it; and, of course, he must be capable of applying it.
But the nice thing is, if he’s willing to work hard at it, he’ll definitely succeed.
In which case he won’t be a narcissist or, at the very least, his narcissism will prove to have been less extreme, and less emotionally crippling, than we might have feared.
(This article, the first of several impending articles on this subject, is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns in this article was purely for convenience’s sake. Females are also capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
one step
I hear you. It’s particularly hard/heartbreaking that your mother is unwell ……God I can hear how much you love her and I hope you get to be with her soon……I can hear that curtesy of all the hurt and pain caused by your very own devastating moron, you can see through all the bullshit throughout the years with your father, and yes I can understand the hate pile coming out on top of him, not that it will do any good, he will just add it to the “she’s nuts” pile
y’know that “lovely kinky literate artful funny weird” persona that she seduced you with, is that not a mirror of who you truly are? they are good at spinning back the mirror image so that it appears you have just
met a ‘soul mate’ they are such beautiful characteristics, bet ya she mirrored you back to yourself so that you “felt at home” all the better to dupe you…
Hey let the “friends” pull away, you need healing time, licking the wounds in a corner time, just be compassionate to yourself, if you turn this hate inward you’ll be dead soon, or demented so come on back here and keep talking it through…get that sick twisted filthy entity OUT of your body by hating all you want and I promise I won’t judge you for it and tell you…oh you must stop that now, it’s not nice….how is anything nice after being hit by a psychopathic articulated truck
This is a soul experience and demands a soul recovery. These unfeeling creeps rip from you the person you thought you were. Behind every perfect performance lies evil. It’s impossible to comprehend at any level how they do not miss you…but they don’t!!
And this is for you one step, I read today in transsociopathica blog (excellent) they prey on people who are EVERYTHING they would like to be.
Do not show her your pain…it’s a light snack for her with a coffee and it’ll keep her going ….do not feed her, let her wither away from starvation. NO CONTACT EVER…so that at last, us victims are finally IN CONTROL Good luck with your mom, hope you can find some comfort soon.
luv716
yes yes, you are not alone in that one. They are a very sexy exciting bunch of crap actually. Because they cannot “really feel” anything passionate and human, so they ‘act’ really well, seeing as they do not do embarrassment, or shame or remorse they can brazenly fix you with the smouldering come to bed eyes and perform very VERY very well!! they actually just see ‘vagina to exploit’…nothing much else sorry…it may “feel” passionate but he is just going through the motions with the fake lover persona….don’t fall for it, it’s a slow motion rape.
Rosa
I agree they will ride you from here to China and it’s not a nice experience in the end!!
Hens
You say so much in such short sentences! ha ha ….a one sentence poet!
Speaking of rides….I almost up-chucked my cookies on the Tilt-A-Whirl once.
They had to stop the ride so I could get off.
It was embarrassing. 🙁
Rosa I dont feel your comment was harsh its real, like u said the excitement was a facade that sociopath put out in the beginning and to be honest its what hook me. Thats why I ask you all do you look for that excitement in the new men that hell of spark you felt with the sociopath and if you dont feel it do you lose interest in the new guy?
Is like a person that tried Crack for the first time the hit is so good you get so addicted to that feeling u chase that high to get that feeling u got with that first hit. That exciting feeling I had with the S was mind blowing, thats what scare me I hope for that feeling with the new guy I meet.
Rosa
Really agree with your post….chuckled at the picture you paint of the tilt a whirl…I loved the roller coaster (still would get on it) I just loved travelling through real time up and down screaming my head off. Never like the ones that went round and round…they were nauseating.
Are we compairing the P with a roller coaster? in hindsight ? in my experience no that moron P was not THAt exciting , the image he projected WAS thrilling for a little while…behind the scenes was a drop dead boring heartless piece of filth.
The persona he imitated was FULL of promise, but the promises all were broken because a knuckleheaded alien is working the controls…they have higher levels of tostesterone or testosterone?? giving them good muscle mass and thick hair (the P to a T) they exude I guess, strong male sexuality, but there is a moron in charge of it as you will find out down the road…there is a soulless entity in the driving seat…buyer beware…
Luv716 yes, I think you are right about the ‘high’ and the ‘excited feeling’ he generates when you are around him… you get addicted to the adrenalin created by is he real or is he fake, does he love me, can I be with him forever?? like gambling you go for it because to win would be everything..(all my dreams come true) but ther’s the gnawing feeling you have been thrown up into the air and it feels like flying…but there will be no one to catch you except your own expanded stretched self you have to create while in mid air…that’s the beauty of it..they FORCE you to re construct yourself to cope with the devastation…but I wouldn’t reccomend the experience to my worst enemy…we are all on a spiritual path and if a Demon comes along…it’s your choice to dance with him or not…look at us all here, in flitters after them, unable to comprehend the world as we knew and trusted it to be.
Hello, Hello my friends! I posted a few days ago…I was very depressed and tired. Still am, but I am very excited to see all the new folks and posts. Bless all of you who have the strength to welcome all the new spath-affected posters here. I don’t know if it’s the darn heat, but I’m just holding on. Seeing my therapist, working part-time, taking care of the cats and the house. Just want you to know I’m here, and so impressed with the love that flows here on LF! Who knew we would be in such numbers? Very sad that so many of us have been hurt. I’ll be back. BIG (((hugs))) jazz
Jazz:
Take GOOD care of YOURSELF!
Do something nice for YOU….like brew some of your favorite, flavored tea, mix it with some OJ or Cran juice and add blueberries and rasberries and orange slices and ICE….it’s a must to drink from a nice wine glass!
Pass by a mirror…give yourself a big smile and Cuddle up with the kitties and enjoy your summer brew!
You know, I don’t know if i mentioned this…but I was not interested in my ex-spath as a boyfriend at all…not my type. I told him that if he didn’t have a job, a car, or an an apartment…I was not interested. I kept him as a friend. I dated a guy, and after 6 months it didn’t work out. No ones fault…it just wasn’t meant to be. I still cried for 3 months. That’s when the spath locked in to me. Scary, when i look back, how he played me. Oh, well….not going to dwell on that now…just wanted to throw in how they get you when you’re down…if it can help someone else, that’s good.
Still very tired, and it’s too dang hot here! the cats are in the fenced backyard lounging like little lions. So cute! (((hugs))) jazz
Hi, Erin! Just saw your post! Thank you! You know, I’m not a breakfast person, but I blend a smoothie every morning with a frozen banana, almond milk, and whatever berries i froze the week before. Very good for me! I’m just in a bit of a funk…I know I’ll come out of it soon. Thank you!
Keep in your heart…..Tomorrow will be a better day!
Smoothie up girl!