This is a big topic, and I fully intend to flesh it out in future posts. But allow me, here, to consider this question from the perspective of the work I do with couples. It is often surprisingly easy, from a couples therapy perspective, to weed out the narcissists from the non-narcissists; and more importantly, the salvageable from the unsalvageable narcissists.
Narcissists, as we know, will struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective. But let’s be clear: it is the reasons they struggle with this, not that they struggle with it, that signals their narcissism.
At the risk of oversimplifying, narcissists struggle to appreciate their partners’ perspective fundamentally because they are deeply self-centered; and their self-centeredness does not arise from a neuro-developmental disorder.
But why do narcissists struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective? Mainly, because to do so, in their experience, would concede the primacy—the overwhelming significance and importance—of their wants and needs.
For narcissistic personalities, the mere notion of others questioning the primacy of their experience is felt variously as insulting, outrageous, unacceptable, threatening and punishable.
In contrast, less narcissistic personalities are less threatened to consider their partners’ perspective, because they have a more equitable view of whose perspective matters. To be clear, for less narcissistic individuals, their perspective matters a lot, but their partners’ perspective also matters a lot.
But I want to be very clear: it’s not that less narcissistic personalities don’t take their own perspectives seriously, maybe even more seriously than their partners’; it’s just that they’re not inflexibly wedded to the idea that their experience—how they feel, how they think, what they want, what they need—is always, by definition, more important and valid than their partners’!
Believe it or not, this is a virtual litmus test for problem levels of narcissism. When I work with couples, I am interested to encourage, and then see, something very important. I’m interested to encourage, first of all, the idea that “validating” your partner’s experience is not the same as endorsing it, agreeing with it, or even, necessarily, fully understanding it.
And “validating” your partner’s experience certainly doesn’t obligate you to abandon your own, possibly very different perception of the situation.
And so I often discuss this model of validation with couples in some depth—especially, the idea that you can recognize your partner’s experience; be willing, interested and curious to appreciate, and better understand, your partner’s experience, from her perspective; and recognize the sanity and sense of your partner’s experience, again from her perspective, without any of this effort and interest requiring you to concede your own, and perhaps very different, experience of the situation.
As you can see, validating, in this model, is the process of recognizing your partner’s experience from her perspective. It is not a process, as noted, of necessarily agreeing with, or even fully understanding your partner; and most certainly—and I can’t stress this enough— it is not a contest of whose perceptions of any given situation are more accurate and right, versus less accurate and more wrong.
Many find this a liberating concept, as it can allow for a relaxation of a common and unhelpful defense: I can’t validate what you’re saying or feeling, because to do so would effectively invalidate my experience.
In other words, from the perspective I’m describing, it’s possible—indeed, with motivation and practice, surpisingly easy—to validate another’s experience without in the least invalidating your own. In fact, this is a model of validation that’s relatively easy to practice because it respects the integrity of one’s own perceptions and experiences.
Once the need for the above defense is removed—and I work hard with couples to remove it—the couple’s capacity to appreciate each others’ experiences of each other often improves significantly.
Partners discover that, because the integrity of their personal experience is preservable, they can actually listen to each others’ experiences with more interest, curiosity and less defensiveness.
In marriages in which some goodwill remains, partners who buy into the model of validation I’m describing often find themselves striving for even more—that is, more than merely endeavoring to listen to each other more effectively, they often find themselves striving to make their partner’s experiences less frustrating and more satisfying.
Conversely, where no goodwill remains in the relationship, everything I’m discussing becomes pretty much moot. Narcissist or not, the marriage, with no goodwill left, is almost certainly dead. It’s just awfully difficult to recover goodwill in a relationship when the “goodwill tank” begins in the therapist’s office with the arrow on empty.
In any case, what happens in my office is often very interesting. The highly narcissistic and, in extreme cases, sociopathic client, cannot do what I’m discussing. Specifically, he is unable, with sincerity and effectiveness, to apply the model of validation I’ve described.
I suggested above the reason for this: he is simply too deeply, inflexibly invested in the significance, if not superiority, of his experience to make enough room for genuine interest in his partners’ experience, even after he’s been introduced to, and given ample time to digest, the proposed model of validation.
That is, this model of validation still falls well short of his demands. Sure, it’s nice that his partner is making efforts to recognize and appreciate his experience from his perspective. He’ll certainly take that, but he wants more than that.
Not surprisingly, what’s necessary—that is, what he still insists on and continues to demand—is his partner’s total capitulation to his way of seeing things.
This is the essence of his narcissism or, if you prefer, his deep, immutable self-centeredness.
Will these individuals show their cards immediately? More often than not, yes. More often than not, whether in my office or outside it (between therapy sessions), they’ll demonstrate, sooner than later, their inability to apply the kind of mutual validation under discussion.
But what about the smooth manipulator? It’s true that a smooth operator, a sociopath, for instance, can fake this process for some time, if he perceives it’s in his selfish interest to do so. (By “fake it,” I mean that he may seem to grasp it, apply it, and be invested in it.)
Yet, in my experience, even the manipulative individual masquerading as sensivitely invested in this form of validating communication, will almost always, sooner than later, reveal chinks in his mask; almost always, sooner than later, he’ll lapse into the highly self-centered attitudes and behaviors of the classic narcissist—attitudes and behaviors characterized by high, rationalized levels of under-accountability and non-transparency.
And so, while the slick manipulator may “get over” for a while, it’s usually not for long. That is, while he may present, initially, as reasonable, flexible and motivated, sooner than later his disguise will fray, revealing his true agenda in the forms of his usual presumptions and entitlement to ongoing gratification.
And so who is the salvageable partner? Narcissist or not, I’d venture to suggest he’s the partner capable of understanding, and appreciating, the concept of validation I propose.
He will be highly motivated to apply it, which is to say, willing to work hard, consistently and sustainedly at applying it; and, of course, he must be capable of applying it.
But the nice thing is, if he’s willing to work hard at it, he’ll definitely succeed.
In which case he won’t be a narcissist or, at the very least, his narcissism will prove to have been less extreme, and less emotionally crippling, than we might have feared.
(This article, the first of several impending articles on this subject, is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns in this article was purely for convenience’s sake. Females are also capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
Hindsight, without realizing the title after the author’s name, see how my above comment could be taken poorly.
It wasn’t my intention to be disrespectful or unappreciative of caretakers, of any kind, in any profession. Especially the author of this article in this forum.
I am still in the process of getting to know everyone, who they are, what they do, etc, that I’m a little overwhelmed with all the information. Not to mention, the amount of posts can take time to read and fully understand. So, my habit has been to just backtrack a few comments, and post to them…
Please accept an apology if anyone was offended by my ramblings.
I ramble a lot, and don’t mean any true harm by it. I was just trying to relate to the discussion to my own capacity, while adding my views of skepticism and disappointments regarding therapy… which are things I have experience with.
I don’t want to hurt feelings either.. but at times, these seem to be a group on here that tries to decide what is appropriate in the manner and what is discussed when they many times are the ones that take things way off topic..
I appreciate the input of all articles.. but if the writer of anything can’t take criticizm or differing opinions or discussions that take it to another similar topic.. then… why write..
I have written for newpapers and done columns and talk about differing opinions and they never bothered me.. and I am a screenwriter and if you can’t take critiques.. then you will not survive…
Style1,
I get what you’re saying about constructive criticism. I guess it’s up to Steve to let us know if he was offended by the comments, or not.
Likely, he’s familiar with skepticism of talk therapy from dealing with the public. I think a portion of the public is skeptical of bearing all to a stranger (licensed professional) regarding very personal information; the benefits of doing so.
So, we could be jumping to assumptions here… because I bet Steve probably wasn’t offended – could see that we were just offering our perspectives.
And that’s exactly what his article is about….validating anothers perspective, while not being threatened about the validity of you own.
I don’t mind getting off topic if it’s pertainant or interesting…and if I don’t feel like it is, I just don’t read it, I move along to something that is.
As for therapy and therapists go, I have had some very good luck and found some very wise and insightful ones…has helped me enormously especially with co-dependancy issues.
I’m sure there are bad or incompetant ones out there, however.
I read on another site the expression, “cooling the mark'”. Cooling the mark is what a secondary con does to reconnvince the victim that the primary con is legitimate and can be trusted. This is exactly what a lot of therapists are guilty of, although, probably without malice, just ignorance.
So, if you ever get the feeling that your therapist is cooling the mark, MOVE ON and get a new therapist.
TOWANDA!!!! YIPPPPPPEEEEEE!!!! HOOOOORAY!!!!! I just got an e mail today from the head of the parole board in My P-son’s state, I had contacted a state senator there who has as real PROBLEM with certain kinds of infractions inside prisons, and I wrote him a letter telling him that my P son was guilty of THAT infraction and 18 other serious ones, including a weapon in his cell, and this particular State Senator is head of the PRISONS DIVISION COMMITTEE in that state, so one of his minions sent a SIGNED LETTER to follow up the e mail he sent to the HEAD OF THE PAROLE BOARD for my P son’s permanent file.
Neither of these guys is a person that an inmate wants to be “on their case” or to even know their names, much less have a NEGTATIVE LETTER ABOUT THEM IN THEIR FILE!!!!! WHOOOOOOPIE!!!! TOWANDA!!!! HIPPPPPEEEEEEE! WHOOPIE DOOO AND HIP-HIP-HOOORAY!!!! So, great day for the good guys, you all!!!! Even a blind pig gets an acorn ever now and then!!!!
Purewater, don’t worry about it, I bet’ya Stevie has broad shoulders and isn’t going to pout about a negative comment or two. I’ve had “foot N mouth” diseasse a time or two here myself hee hee so don’t worry! (((hugs)))) I’m just glad you are here cause I can see you taking the bit in your teeth and running with all the information and support you are gaining here. You just keep on keeping on!!! (((hugs))))
Psyche, thanks for the feedback!
Style 1, I really have no problem with your ever finding my articles unhelpful. I don’t presume that you, or anyone in particular, will find a particular article useful. Maybe you will, maybe you won’t. I hope you will, of course, but i can’t possibly be so presumptuous as to assume that you, or anyone, will like or not like an article.
However, just as you have absolutely every right to express your disappointment in an article, I also have the right balk at what I might construe as a rather disrespectful expression of how unimpressed you are, eg…
“The just of this article is that some can have awareness and others not.. DUH!”
This is a rather patronizing, sarcastic display of your feelings, is it not? We can disagree about what I was trying to convey in my article. I feel that I was saying much much more than what (in my view) you’ve oversimplified. However, you are entitled to your view. And so, while I don’t balk at criticism, this comment, to me, isn’t criticism; it’s just an insulting display of your feelings.
I hope you don’t take these comments personally.
Steve
Your response has further puzzled me as I was expressng a genuine angle, you say:
Bulletproof, I’m sorry you found my “psycho babble” (whatever in my article constituted psychobabble) and my analysis so “tiring” and unhelpful.
I feel like a “bold girl” who didn’t eat her vegeatables….and you reward with one liners the others who VALIDATED you….
no I didn’t say any of that!!! I think you have taken something “personally”….please re-read what I actually said, as I read your articles thoroughly before commenting.
Style1
Glad you are understanding the situation, as so much stuff goes without any challenge, I do not know why….you say:
I appreciate the input of all articles.. but if the writer of anything can’t take criticizm or differing opinions or discussions that take it to another similar topic.. then” why write..
yes, we are here to express out different views, and perhaps enter into a discussion that may help to clarify grey areas, feelings and opinions.
and I’m disappointed with the level of debate here, it feels like it is “owned” by an exclusive group whose self esteem is threatened if there is disagreement….who are all back slapping and are’nt we great!!!well y’know you are not great all the time, you can be also a pain in the ass…
“but at times, these seem to be a group on here that tries to decide what is appropriate in the manner and what is discussed when they many times are the ones that take things way off topic.”
I think the only ‘TOPIC’ is support/healing from a sociopathic relationship.
The topic is boundaryless……direct, indirect….however people are healing.
ALL of this ‘chatter’ can be helpful to someone….whether it be retating about farm animals or what I had for dinner.
It’s about bonding with another in order to support. Connection with a commonality.
Think outside the box!
I don’t think there is any ‘group’ on LF….we are all posters, some long time, some new, some pop in, some post once or twice….. and quite frankly…if someones lack of self esteem procludes them from perceiving themselves as part of the ‘group’ (ALL LF POSTERS/READERS)….then….that is not the ‘groups’ problem, this is an issue for that poster.
Anyone can jump in at any time.
Out of pure time spent on LF, and that alone…..there is familiarity between some posters. It is NOT a status, just a reality of time. Nothing more, nothing less.
This can not be ‘held’ against anyone.
If a new poster connects with another new poster….this is great….and can’t be held against them. Same.
There is NO PECKING ORDER ON LF!!!! If you perceive it that way…..we need to look inside.
LF has strong personalities, loveing personalities, painful personalities, angry, hateful, hurt, destroyed, scared, smart, self aware, blinded and stepped on personalities….
LET THE HEALING HAPPEN!
LF is not a cult it is a place of evolution, learning and surviving. ALL survivors are welcome.
It is support- plain and simple.
The above does not speak to the toxics we get from time to time. Unhealthy people, who’s personal agendas are revealed by thier postings. Posters will ignore them eventually, if they are not removed before.
I will offer advice, but I’ve got a keen sense when someone is bullshitting. I am not going to coddle someone for long. I will call bullshit and ignore.
Stop raising a ruckus and heal.
Geez.. lots of issues just flooded out of many that posted.
And Steve, no comment, but if I irritatated you by not writing something you ‘approve’ of .. I am sorry.. it’s my opinion and I am entitled to express it…
If you think back I have complimented other things that you have written..
And there is a ‘control group’ on here..
And I care not if I am considered in or out of a group on this site. That was not the purpose of what I said at all. That statement is plain silly … it is just an observation of mine.. some like to ‘play’ at ‘mother’ on here.. and sometimes, it is nice and others becomes a bit judgemental and controlling in appearance. I don’t like group connections such as this.. But it doesn’t bother me.. I am just making the obervation and stating it…
Brustled up some feathers…
Sorry.. take a breath…
Sorry..
When a person is doing something out of the ‘goodness’ of his heart to aid a community….why in the hell can’t we appreciate the effort.
THIS is NOT a newspaper column.
If you don’t find it helpful…..great…..stop attacking.
Politely disagree.
Steve Becker is providing us a service….if you don’t like his work, that’s fine…..but don’t act like pirannas with your views of his points.
Disagreement is fine and healthy….I don’t think this has taken a healthy path….it has festered in some to talk about ‘groups’ and passive aggressively attack posters here.
Go to Steves website and look at his other work….if you can’t appriciate his w.ork….then you will have a headsup NOT to read his articles and create a stink here.