This is a big topic, and I fully intend to flesh it out in future posts. But allow me, here, to consider this question from the perspective of the work I do with couples. It is often surprisingly easy, from a couples therapy perspective, to weed out the narcissists from the non-narcissists; and more importantly, the salvageable from the unsalvageable narcissists.
Narcissists, as we know, will struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective. But let’s be clear: it is the reasons they struggle with this, not that they struggle with it, that signals their narcissism.
At the risk of oversimplifying, narcissists struggle to appreciate their partners’ perspective fundamentally because they are deeply self-centered; and their self-centeredness does not arise from a neuro-developmental disorder.
But why do narcissists struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective? Mainly, because to do so, in their experience, would concede the primacy—the overwhelming significance and importance—of their wants and needs.
For narcissistic personalities, the mere notion of others questioning the primacy of their experience is felt variously as insulting, outrageous, unacceptable, threatening and punishable.
In contrast, less narcissistic personalities are less threatened to consider their partners’ perspective, because they have a more equitable view of whose perspective matters. To be clear, for less narcissistic individuals, their perspective matters a lot, but their partners’ perspective also matters a lot.
But I want to be very clear: it’s not that less narcissistic personalities don’t take their own perspectives seriously, maybe even more seriously than their partners’; it’s just that they’re not inflexibly wedded to the idea that their experience—how they feel, how they think, what they want, what they need—is always, by definition, more important and valid than their partners’!
Believe it or not, this is a virtual litmus test for problem levels of narcissism. When I work with couples, I am interested to encourage, and then see, something very important. I’m interested to encourage, first of all, the idea that “validating” your partner’s experience is not the same as endorsing it, agreeing with it, or even, necessarily, fully understanding it.
And “validating” your partner’s experience certainly doesn’t obligate you to abandon your own, possibly very different perception of the situation.
And so I often discuss this model of validation with couples in some depth—especially, the idea that you can recognize your partner’s experience; be willing, interested and curious to appreciate, and better understand, your partner’s experience, from her perspective; and recognize the sanity and sense of your partner’s experience, again from her perspective, without any of this effort and interest requiring you to concede your own, and perhaps very different, experience of the situation.
As you can see, validating, in this model, is the process of recognizing your partner’s experience from her perspective. It is not a process, as noted, of necessarily agreeing with, or even fully understanding your partner; and most certainly—and I can’t stress this enough— it is not a contest of whose perceptions of any given situation are more accurate and right, versus less accurate and more wrong.
Many find this a liberating concept, as it can allow for a relaxation of a common and unhelpful defense: I can’t validate what you’re saying or feeling, because to do so would effectively invalidate my experience.
In other words, from the perspective I’m describing, it’s possible—indeed, with motivation and practice, surpisingly easy—to validate another’s experience without in the least invalidating your own. In fact, this is a model of validation that’s relatively easy to practice because it respects the integrity of one’s own perceptions and experiences.
Once the need for the above defense is removed—and I work hard with couples to remove it—the couple’s capacity to appreciate each others’ experiences of each other often improves significantly.
Partners discover that, because the integrity of their personal experience is preservable, they can actually listen to each others’ experiences with more interest, curiosity and less defensiveness.
In marriages in which some goodwill remains, partners who buy into the model of validation I’m describing often find themselves striving for even more—that is, more than merely endeavoring to listen to each other more effectively, they often find themselves striving to make their partner’s experiences less frustrating and more satisfying.
Conversely, where no goodwill remains in the relationship, everything I’m discussing becomes pretty much moot. Narcissist or not, the marriage, with no goodwill left, is almost certainly dead. It’s just awfully difficult to recover goodwill in a relationship when the “goodwill tank” begins in the therapist’s office with the arrow on empty.
In any case, what happens in my office is often very interesting. The highly narcissistic and, in extreme cases, sociopathic client, cannot do what I’m discussing. Specifically, he is unable, with sincerity and effectiveness, to apply the model of validation I’ve described.
I suggested above the reason for this: he is simply too deeply, inflexibly invested in the significance, if not superiority, of his experience to make enough room for genuine interest in his partners’ experience, even after he’s been introduced to, and given ample time to digest, the proposed model of validation.
That is, this model of validation still falls well short of his demands. Sure, it’s nice that his partner is making efforts to recognize and appreciate his experience from his perspective. He’ll certainly take that, but he wants more than that.
Not surprisingly, what’s necessary—that is, what he still insists on and continues to demand—is his partner’s total capitulation to his way of seeing things.
This is the essence of his narcissism or, if you prefer, his deep, immutable self-centeredness.
Will these individuals show their cards immediately? More often than not, yes. More often than not, whether in my office or outside it (between therapy sessions), they’ll demonstrate, sooner than later, their inability to apply the kind of mutual validation under discussion.
But what about the smooth manipulator? It’s true that a smooth operator, a sociopath, for instance, can fake this process for some time, if he perceives it’s in his selfish interest to do so. (By “fake it,” I mean that he may seem to grasp it, apply it, and be invested in it.)
Yet, in my experience, even the manipulative individual masquerading as sensivitely invested in this form of validating communication, will almost always, sooner than later, reveal chinks in his mask; almost always, sooner than later, he’ll lapse into the highly self-centered attitudes and behaviors of the classic narcissist—attitudes and behaviors characterized by high, rationalized levels of under-accountability and non-transparency.
And so, while the slick manipulator may “get over” for a while, it’s usually not for long. That is, while he may present, initially, as reasonable, flexible and motivated, sooner than later his disguise will fray, revealing his true agenda in the forms of his usual presumptions and entitlement to ongoing gratification.
And so who is the salvageable partner? Narcissist or not, I’d venture to suggest he’s the partner capable of understanding, and appreciating, the concept of validation I propose.
He will be highly motivated to apply it, which is to say, willing to work hard, consistently and sustainedly at applying it; and, of course, he must be capable of applying it.
But the nice thing is, if he’s willing to work hard at it, he’ll definitely succeed.
In which case he won’t be a narcissist or, at the very least, his narcissism will prove to have been less extreme, and less emotionally crippling, than we might have feared.
(This article, the first of several impending articles on this subject, is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns in this article was purely for convenience’s sake. Females are also capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
I knit all my grandkids hats and scarves last year. This year I’m knitting myself a big soft fluffy rug.
🙂 Excellent!
Verity,
excellent post. So much good stuff to think about there.
Love is a choice. I need to examine that somemore.
I can certainly see that I’ve got some “acceptance” or “love” for my exPath, he is a human being and he didn’t choose what happened to him. What he did choose was his perception of it. He chose to rail against it and blame the world for his emotional deprivation. The correct choice was humility, not pride. As they say, There but for the grace of God go I.
Even in the matter of our choices we must be grateful that we made the right ones and thank God with humility.
I’ve not always had this frame of mind. When I was 15, I remember telling God, that I would be making my choices based on what I wanted. It is the most shameful thing I’ve ever done. Compared to all the other things that I’ve posted here, this is so shameful that I almost can’t tell it.
Skylar, you are a very generous and loving person to forgive and accept your spath at all. From what I’ve read you were put through hell.
Talking about unconditional love on the blog is tricky, because when people are wounded mortally they have the right and the need to be angry. It would be wrong to expect any victim of a spath/narc to feel anything other than what they’re feeling. Anger, blame, hatred, it’s all fine because that’s what’s coming up and denying anybody’s right to their feelings is cruel. That’s what happened to the abused, and maybe the abuser, when they were little. If anyone had told me I shouldn’t hate him or be angry when I was feeling it I might have wished they’d fall off the face of the earth.
But I wonder now whether or not anyone can choose their perception or behaviour. Are we not strictly limited by our genes and our conditioning and the capacity or health of our individual brains? I don’t know. It seemed I had no choice whatsoever to be with him, despite my gut screaming no. Now I know better. What they do is terrible, but now I am questioning the whole concept of free will, which wouldn’t be everybody’s view. Sometimes I can choose (desire) to do/be something, and keep choosing that thing over and over and it still doesn’t happen because of my own limitations, or maybe it’s just not the will of God/Consciousness.
This is heavy stuff.
Skylar, you were 15. It sounds like a kind of a 15-year-old thing to say. We have all said things like that and worse, I’m sure.
I had a keylogger warning on my laptop this morning (thank you, new Zemana antilogger). Maybe the only way to make this be over is to stop talking about it.
Well, how Narcissistic is it to EXPECT UNCONDITIONAL LOVE from someone? The psychopaths expect that WE should love them UNconditionally and take whatever abuse they want to dish out, but their “love” for us is very conditional on how we respond to their demands?
WE are “evil” if we have judgments about their behavior. (Well, getting drunk and gambling away all the rent money IS BAD) WE are “evil” if we remember that they have done the same bad behavior over and over and over—we are “keeping bringing up the past.” (well, the past repeats itself, there is no change, so yea….duh!”) WE are always “starting a fight”—anytime we try to discuss something bad they have done it becomes a fight, there is no “discussion.” and I could go on!
Our jobs are CONDITIONAL on us doing them to get a pay check. Our grades in school are CONDITIONAL on us learning and passing tests, and completing the work required. Our utilities are CONDITIONAL on us paying the bills.
Everything in life is CONDITIONAL on something. My friendship is conditional on my friends treating me well. My LOVE is conditional on my lover being honest with me.
About the ONLY UN-conditional love I can think of is my dog’s love for me, and my love for my infants when they were little. Everything else depends on how people treat me and how I treat them. So what is wrong with that? Not a thing I can see.
Verity,
Heavy stuff, yes. It has been discussed before in many circles: how much free will do we have, when you consider all the genetic and environmental programming that has gone into our little brains?
My exP ran away when he was 12. He was devastated by his parents’ divorce. His father was a spath but he didn’t perceive that. He blamed his mom and she didn’t want to turn the boys against their dad so she never told them that he had cheated on her multiple times. (another reason you should never protect you kids from reality and the truth).
So spath ran away and lived with a prostitute. Well you can imagine that she didn’t do it out of the goodness of her heart. A 12 year-old boy can greatly increase a ho’s income if she advertises correctly. Can you imagine how he must have cursed humanity, being exposed to that? He has a large scar on his buttocks cheek. Looks like half of his cheek is gone. His mom said she knew nothing about it. I knew better than to ask him where it came from.
I know that trauma causes a person to turn off their ability to feel. Different people do it different ways.
You are right that many people here would not feel that he should be forgiven because no matter what happened to him he didn’t have the right to inflict it elsewhere. I’m not really sure that I forgive him, but sometimes I feel deep compassion for his suffering. I feel like it isn’t my place sometimes, to judge him. Like you, I just want him to stop feeling that he needs to hurt others. But like I mentioned before, I got to this place because I have gained so much from the pain that he gave me.
My parents, on the other hand….I still don’t know what to think about them. The pain they caused me so early in life has left me crippled. The fact that they know what they did (because I have explained it to them and they admit it) and they still won’t stop, is very hard to deal with. Damage to a child is harder to recover from – bad programming has to be fixed and so much collateral damage occured because of it. It will be a while before I can report that I’ve gained more than I have lost due to my relationshit with my parents. But I’m working on it.
sky – i talked to my lama many years ago – which was not an easy thing to accomplish – i see him maybe once a year and usually in the company of several hundred people.
i ran one day, ran to catch up with him as he was leaving a lecture hall, knew whcihc way he would be going, and I managed to have about 5 minutes with him as he walked up the hill, before he was swamped by the crowd…..
my mom had been diagnosed with dementia and my father was angry angry (as an n would be)…but i didn’t know he was an n back then…i went to ask for the lama’s blessing for my work with them – my caretaking – it was heavy at that time, she was having brain surgery, etc.
The lama aske dhow my dad was with everything and i said, ‘angry’. he stopped dead in his tracks for a split second , looked me in the eye and said, ‘THESE PEOPLE WILL NEVER PULL YOU UP IN LIFE.’
One step,
I totally get what you mean. Kathleen has made it very clear to me that it is up to me to grow up – it’s about me not about them. But there is so much sadness in me regarding them. I just feel like a pile of wet dishrags when I think of them. I was not so affected by the spath – I don’t think. It was pretty cut and dried with him once I realized what he was.
I’m hoping for an AHA! moment with my parents.
One thing I’ve been able to put a label on them: controlling parents. I’m just trying to see if there is more. My dad is an N. Not a problem – doesn’t faze me. My mom….WHAT IS SHE?
I think if I could give her a name, I could feel more clear.
sky – i have some ideas about this, but rats, i just got up and i have to be somewhere at 10…so i will come back and write later.
best, one step
SKY – With a label you have something to investigate; with a label you can use your intellect, and escape being overwhelmed with the feeling of having been denied love.
your connection with them is what keeps you tied to an emotional landscape that is young and unable to grow. i know from what you write, that this young part of you is in great pain, and it seems that you are letting her up and out a bit more. she needs the light of day to purge and mature. it’s a really big deal that you are giving her some space to be.
thing is, the spath shouldfaze you, but you use that intellect to feel with – not what it is best at. you need to get safe to mature. i like you. and i like how you have developed your mind. and i think you can use it to figure out how to parent yourself. your parents suck at it, and they alwayswill, but you could get good at it.
this isn’t at all what i thought of writing this AM – can’t remember what that even was 🙂 not at my most eloquent tonight.
i had a really good day out and about, but then i really crashed emotionally. so left the thing i was at and came home…trying just to let the feelings wash over me. it will all be better in the morning.