This is a big topic, and I fully intend to flesh it out in future posts. But allow me, here, to consider this question from the perspective of the work I do with couples. It is often surprisingly easy, from a couples therapy perspective, to weed out the narcissists from the non-narcissists; and more importantly, the salvageable from the unsalvageable narcissists.
Narcissists, as we know, will struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective. But let’s be clear: it is the reasons they struggle with this, not that they struggle with it, that signals their narcissism.
At the risk of oversimplifying, narcissists struggle to appreciate their partners’ perspective fundamentally because they are deeply self-centered; and their self-centeredness does not arise from a neuro-developmental disorder.
But why do narcissists struggle to see things from their partners’ perspective? Mainly, because to do so, in their experience, would concede the primacy—the overwhelming significance and importance—of their wants and needs.
For narcissistic personalities, the mere notion of others questioning the primacy of their experience is felt variously as insulting, outrageous, unacceptable, threatening and punishable.
In contrast, less narcissistic personalities are less threatened to consider their partners’ perspective, because they have a more equitable view of whose perspective matters. To be clear, for less narcissistic individuals, their perspective matters a lot, but their partners’ perspective also matters a lot.
But I want to be very clear: it’s not that less narcissistic personalities don’t take their own perspectives seriously, maybe even more seriously than their partners’; it’s just that they’re not inflexibly wedded to the idea that their experience—how they feel, how they think, what they want, what they need—is always, by definition, more important and valid than their partners’!
Believe it or not, this is a virtual litmus test for problem levels of narcissism. When I work with couples, I am interested to encourage, and then see, something very important. I’m interested to encourage, first of all, the idea that “validating” your partner’s experience is not the same as endorsing it, agreeing with it, or even, necessarily, fully understanding it.
And “validating” your partner’s experience certainly doesn’t obligate you to abandon your own, possibly very different perception of the situation.
And so I often discuss this model of validation with couples in some depth—especially, the idea that you can recognize your partner’s experience; be willing, interested and curious to appreciate, and better understand, your partner’s experience, from her perspective; and recognize the sanity and sense of your partner’s experience, again from her perspective, without any of this effort and interest requiring you to concede your own, and perhaps very different, experience of the situation.
As you can see, validating, in this model, is the process of recognizing your partner’s experience from her perspective. It is not a process, as noted, of necessarily agreeing with, or even fully understanding your partner; and most certainly—and I can’t stress this enough— it is not a contest of whose perceptions of any given situation are more accurate and right, versus less accurate and more wrong.
Many find this a liberating concept, as it can allow for a relaxation of a common and unhelpful defense: I can’t validate what you’re saying or feeling, because to do so would effectively invalidate my experience.
In other words, from the perspective I’m describing, it’s possible—indeed, with motivation and practice, surpisingly easy—to validate another’s experience without in the least invalidating your own. In fact, this is a model of validation that’s relatively easy to practice because it respects the integrity of one’s own perceptions and experiences.
Once the need for the above defense is removed—and I work hard with couples to remove it—the couple’s capacity to appreciate each others’ experiences of each other often improves significantly.
Partners discover that, because the integrity of their personal experience is preservable, they can actually listen to each others’ experiences with more interest, curiosity and less defensiveness.
In marriages in which some goodwill remains, partners who buy into the model of validation I’m describing often find themselves striving for even more—that is, more than merely endeavoring to listen to each other more effectively, they often find themselves striving to make their partner’s experiences less frustrating and more satisfying.
Conversely, where no goodwill remains in the relationship, everything I’m discussing becomes pretty much moot. Narcissist or not, the marriage, with no goodwill left, is almost certainly dead. It’s just awfully difficult to recover goodwill in a relationship when the “goodwill tank” begins in the therapist’s office with the arrow on empty.
In any case, what happens in my office is often very interesting. The highly narcissistic and, in extreme cases, sociopathic client, cannot do what I’m discussing. Specifically, he is unable, with sincerity and effectiveness, to apply the model of validation I’ve described.
I suggested above the reason for this: he is simply too deeply, inflexibly invested in the significance, if not superiority, of his experience to make enough room for genuine interest in his partners’ experience, even after he’s been introduced to, and given ample time to digest, the proposed model of validation.
That is, this model of validation still falls well short of his demands. Sure, it’s nice that his partner is making efforts to recognize and appreciate his experience from his perspective. He’ll certainly take that, but he wants more than that.
Not surprisingly, what’s necessary—that is, what he still insists on and continues to demand—is his partner’s total capitulation to his way of seeing things.
This is the essence of his narcissism or, if you prefer, his deep, immutable self-centeredness.
Will these individuals show their cards immediately? More often than not, yes. More often than not, whether in my office or outside it (between therapy sessions), they’ll demonstrate, sooner than later, their inability to apply the kind of mutual validation under discussion.
But what about the smooth manipulator? It’s true that a smooth operator, a sociopath, for instance, can fake this process for some time, if he perceives it’s in his selfish interest to do so. (By “fake it,” I mean that he may seem to grasp it, apply it, and be invested in it.)
Yet, in my experience, even the manipulative individual masquerading as sensivitely invested in this form of validating communication, will almost always, sooner than later, reveal chinks in his mask; almost always, sooner than later, he’ll lapse into the highly self-centered attitudes and behaviors of the classic narcissist—attitudes and behaviors characterized by high, rationalized levels of under-accountability and non-transparency.
And so, while the slick manipulator may “get over” for a while, it’s usually not for long. That is, while he may present, initially, as reasonable, flexible and motivated, sooner than later his disguise will fray, revealing his true agenda in the forms of his usual presumptions and entitlement to ongoing gratification.
And so who is the salvageable partner? Narcissist or not, I’d venture to suggest he’s the partner capable of understanding, and appreciating, the concept of validation I propose.
He will be highly motivated to apply it, which is to say, willing to work hard, consistently and sustainedly at applying it; and, of course, he must be capable of applying it.
But the nice thing is, if he’s willing to work hard at it, he’ll definitely succeed.
In which case he won’t be a narcissist or, at the very least, his narcissism will prove to have been less extreme, and less emotionally crippling, than we might have feared.
(This article, the first of several impending articles on this subject, is copyrighted © 2010 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns in this article was purely for convenience’s sake. Females are also capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
EB,
Yes!!!!
Notcrze:
It looks like it….
I was gone all day.
Got off the mountain because the snow turned to rain…..much easier to shop in the rain….drive too!:)
I’ve got 2 parites nextweek….so I did the shopping now….we are due 10 feet of snow this week, and i’m a bad girl and I am trying to get another year out of my tires….if we continue to have a big snow year….it might not have been the smartest decision.
Need to do some work at my rental tomorrow, as I’ve got people coming in….I got new drapes, a new lockbox and some plumbing on toilets I need to replace the inards in.
Not another peep…..but I think he’s on the move soon. He’s been in the tripics for 2 months now…..just keeping my ears open for more info.
Jr works with that kid tonight…..wonder what’s gonna be HIS story?
We are okay…..and you?
I’ve got to go unload my car….it’s stuffed to the gills.
You have a good night NC….and WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU DOING UP???
It’s almost 1am here…..I’m beat up!!!
Night darlen.
EB,
You are one strong woman!! I could not imagine doing all that you do, with that weather where you live.
HIS story will be interesting! Keep those ears open!!
I’m OK, feel asleep early and woke up and can’t sleep. I’m just trying to occupy myself STOP this from turning into a panic attack!
My nightmares about the xspath are much better than they were but occasionally I get a night like tonight. I wake up from knowing I was dreaming about him, but not sure what it was and have a bad feeling in my gut. Maybe becuase Sunday the 19th, today is the anniversarry of our engagement. My conciuos doesn’t care, I think the subconciuos has kicked in. So here I am at almost 4 am.
Thanks for asking!
Notcrze
I sure can’t spell worth a damn this AM
Ntcze:
Dreams are processing…..
they can be very informative if we pay attention.
Some of them DO blindside us and leave us off kilter….Sorry you had one of those tonight.
Try to embrace your dreams…..
Today, focus on how fortunate you are….YOUR NOT married!
Make yourself a cup of herbal tea and divert your thoughts….and be good to yourself today. Remember to BREATH!
Remind yourself how fortunate you are….think of all the good in your life….like the fact your alive.
Ya know…I do feel strong. I never really felt like I had a choice….I guess my choice was Quit….or carry on….I’m not a quitter….I’ll make it inspite of the hardships!
Once I found my ADAMANT (I wrote about finding our ADAMANT here on lF, look under SEPT or OCT articles on the left side) it was full steam ahead.
We really do just keep putting one foot in front of the other….pretty soon, we got a rythem going.
I do gotta run….get that car unpacked! YIKES…
Keep your head FOCUSED and UP!
XXOO
EB
Thanks EB, I needed that. Now get that car unpacked and get some rest.
Type with you later.
Notcrze1!
Ntcrze:
http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2010/09/29/finding-our-adamant-unearthing-our-most-valuable-gem/
Here is the link…..you might find this helpful …during these moments.
I’m off to bed….(as you’ve already had your day started for what 8 HOURS?)
Night….
EB,
I’m not sure why this has become the obstacle that it is for me. I feel imprisoned. It wasn’t this bad before, when I first realized that my spath was a spath and my parents originated all the problems.
In a way, I can see that you are dealing with your spath by being a strong, badass woman. I did that too. It was empowering. I want to do that again. Just that, right now I’ve reverted to childhood somehow. As Kathleen says, I’m playing my life from a position of fear, rather than authority.
An example is the aztecs: At the high point of their hysteroidal cycle they were sacrificing 150 people a day to ward off any evil. They were so afraid of authority (gods) not loving them enough to protect them that they were hysterical, sacificing people like crazy to get protection. Cortez saw how primitive (childlike) there were and conquered them easily. Cortez was an obvious psychopath. Like babies, P’s can sense things that intelligent normal people have to figure out.
The experience with the P has shown me that there is a completely new way to live in the world. I want to get there. NOW.
Seems like everyone is operating from a personality disorder of some kind. all of us trying to feel powerful when we’re actually afraid. We’re all a bunch of babies with baby emotional issues clouding/coloring our judgement. There is no logic, only perception. The P’s are the babies with a dirty diaper and an empty milk bottle. I’m the baby that gets fed and diaper changed but otherwise ignored. Like a potted plant.
Dear Skylar and Onestep and EB:
As much as the spath’s cruelties and betrayals crushed me and took years to process, analyse and figure out (until I knew beyond doubt that NOTHING I could have done could have changed any of it and that NONE of it was my fault) – once that was done, there was no going back for me. No reconsideration; no tossing around other “possibilities”; once I knew what I was dealing with, well….then I knew what I was dealing with. I just accepted it, as awful as it was.
It’s much harder to accept lousy behaviour (and CONTINUING lousy behaviour) from your parents, especially (1) their lousy behaviour that helped set you up as an approval-seeking care-taking kind-hearted minimising over-looker and (2) their lousy victim-blaming behaviour that failed to support you in any meaningful way once your encounter with the spath began to unravel your life and your sanity. It’s the relationships with my parents that now cause me the most grief.
I have reached a point with my father (whom I strongly suspect of at LEAST being a Narcissist) (if not an outright alien being from the planet PIG…) that I have been NC for over a year after he erupted at me and raged in temper (the type of yelling, name-calling, derogatory, fist-banging on the furniture tantrum I have put up with from him my whole life – only now I am 44…and I don’t allow ANYONE to treat me that way) because he objected to a decision I had made (Dear me, fancy a 44-year-old woman who has not lived with her parents since she was 21, actually having the audacity to make her own decisions….tut, tut!!) and wanted me to know how angry he was about it and how stupid he thought I was for making it.
If he dropped dead tomorrow, I doubt now that I would even cry. Over the years, I have given him so many chances to redeem himself, forgiven so many slights and injuries and overlooked his arrogant personality in favour of his (very few) good points. There have even been times when he has begged me – in tears – to forgive him – and I always did – before. Some years back he wronged me very unjustly and hurt me deeply – I resolved then to have a superficial releationship with him for the sake of my other family members, particularly my mum. But his abusive outburst last year was the proverbial straw. This time, after I finished wailing and howling about his behaviour toward me, I reached the cold, hard decision that he had blown it for good.
I recently heard (through a sibling) that he had been having some tests for potentially life-threatening health conditions (he is 63) and all I could think was, “Oh well. Maybe he’ll die soon.” I felt nothing. This is really weird for me because I am an extremely affectionate, loyal, forgiving and loving person ordinarily. I guess I finally decided that these were not ordinary circumstances…
It’s much more difficult to work out what I’m going to do about Mum. We get on like best friends when my father is not around to influence (read: warp) our relationship. But I have to accept that for the past 44 years, she has consistently chosen the feelings of her husband over the feelings of all 3 of her children, only ever rarely intervening and standing up to him for us. As Oxy would say, an “enabler deluxe”.
So – we speak every couple of months on the telephone (I won’t call or visit them anymore because of my father) and it’s now stilted, uncomfortable and sad. I don’t ask about him and she has stopped trying to force conversation about him on me. I miss my Mum and I miss our friendship and the fun we had together, but I won’t (can’t) go near HIM again without hurting myself or at the very least, opening myself up to more of his abuse, so I don’t.