It can be pretty tricky navigating the continuum of narcissistically disturbed individuals, attempting to separate the salvageables from the unsalvageables. Yet, there are two awfully basic, interrelated questions that can help you cut to the chase, and guide your decision to keep going, or cut bait.
Here they are:
1) Is your partner someone who genuinely recognizes he has a problem respecting you?
2) If he genuinely recognizes this, then does he have the genuine motivation to confront his disrespectful behaviors and attitudes (be they chronic or episodic; devastating in their impact or more quietly, gradually corrosive of your goodwill)?
Ultimately, it comes down to these separate, yet related, questions.
If the answer to either of them proves no, or probably not, then it’s boogie on out of the relationship time. If the answer to both questions proves yes, or probably yes (and it must be “yes!” to both questions!), then you have a basis to hope for improvement in the quality of the relationship.
But wait a second! I hear the shrieks! “How do you evaluate how genuine someone is, especially a manipulative personality?”
Well, the truth is, it’s difficult to assess how “genuine” someone is, on any level, no less a really good manipulator. But you must still make this assessment in an ongoing fashion, and you must make it without certainty of its accuracy.
Now, we always need to be clear about this: Sometimes, when you are dealing with a sociopath tremendously skilled at dissimulation (as a great many sociopaths are), it may be impossible to bust him before he’s had the chance to wreak terrible, longstanding and long-lasting levels of destruction. God knows this is too often the case. Of course, Donna Anderson in her upcoming book will arm her readers with incredible tools to do precisely this—bust these harder-to-bust sociopathic types.
But in many cases, more than one thinks, partners can be flushed-out for lacking true recognition of their disrespectful behaviors and the true motivation to modify them.
Of course I can’t stress sufficiently that it’s not enough to flush these individuals out: once flushed out, you need to be willing to overcome defenses like denial and pathological hope to heed the red flags you’ve identified. (I’m going to write about what I call pathological hope in my next article. I see it as a defense mechanism that can be almost as self-destructive as the sociopath can be destructive.)
So what are we really looking for here? What do we really need to see? Yes, we are looking for recognition, but most of all we are looking for change. Recognition without change is ultimately useless, a big tease.
And we are looking not for signs of small, itty bitty changes, but real, durable, meaningful, yes big changes. If the changes are too subtle, too slow in coming, too contingent on things like his “moods,” or the alignment of the stars, or if they’re subject to “relapses” of any sort (and especially rationalized relapses), then”¦bzzzzzz”¦.it’s time to send him back to the dugout, permanently, to sit his a** on the bench with his fellow underperformers.
Why do I emphasize big changes and downplay small, subtle changes?
Because we are talking about a big problem, and big problems, on which the quality, integrity and perhaps even safety of your life literally depend, demand big changes. The evidence of the commitment to these changes needs to be absolutely unmistakable; but again I repeat: the key thing is less the evidence of such recognition than the evidence of the changes!
Let me give a small, somewhat tangential but, at least, one specific example of what I’m saying. Let’s say you’ve been feeling disrespected by your partner and for you this is a very serious problem. You’ve been feeling variously misunderstood, blown off, violated, neglected, abused, mistrustful; feeling, let’s say, relegated to a hurtfully low priority in your partner’s world.
In a word, you aren’t feeling respected, and this has become, for you, a serious problem that you share with him. You request that he join you for couples counseling to address your, and perhaps his, concerns?
His answer is “no.”
Well, the answer, “No,” to your request for his participation in couples therapy, is a “You just struck out, pal” answer. That’s a damning, indictable answer. “No” is a virtual affirmation of what you’ve shared with him you’ve been experiencing—his disregard of you and the relationship.
“No” is an utterly lame answer, especially if you’ve requested his participation in couples counseling in a non-belligerent, sincere, and utterly serious fashion.
“No” is tantamount to declaring officially, “I am uninvested in this relationship.”
It may come in countless forms, among them:
“You’re unhappy, that’s your problem.”
“Go get help yourself.”
“I don’t need help. You’re the one with the complaints.”
“Nothing makes you happy. You are insatiable.”
“It’s pointless”¦seriously, get your own sh*t together first and then let’s talk.”
These, and countless similar responses, which blame you and exculpate him, while simultaneously affirming his perspective of the relationship not as a unity or partnership but more as a “sole proprietorship—¦these kinds of responses tell you all you need to know.
But now let’s say he says “yes,” and joins you in couples therapy. That’s nice. If he’s a sociopath, as I’ve written previously, you will hope the therapist will be shrewd enough to know that he, the therapist, is dealing with a sociopath. Because sociopaths do not belong in couples therapy. But for purposes of this argument, let’s imagine he’s not a full-blown sociopath.
In any case, as I’ve been suggesting, it is the evidence, ultimately, that will tell the tale.
He will either change meaningfully and permanently, and begin making these changes in earnest, very soon; or, he won’t.
He may or may not talk the talk effectively, persuasively. But if he doesn’t walk the walk and maintain the walk, you will have gotten your answer.
Walking the walk doesn’t mean it’s necessarily onesided; you too may have changes to make on your end. Nobody’s perfect, and even if you’re involved with a salvageable jerk (the best case scenario and hope), that doesn’t mean you too don’t have room to make some changes.
But let’s not kid ourselves, or let him kid us. If he isn’t motivated to leave you feeling more fulfilled, loved, respected and less neglected; if there isn’t evidence of his sincere desire to do this, and evidence of his willingness to work hard at doing this, and finally, evidence of his success at doing this, well then again”¦.we have our answers.
And let me repeat this point: the changes need to be sustained. Transitory changes made from desperation are more likely to revert as complacency creeps backs in. The regression, as complacency reenters the picture, will tell you something very important, namely that the changes weren’t made from a deep, or deeply honest enough, place.
The interesting thing, here, isn’t that any of this is a news flash or rocket science, because to the contrary I’m aware how almost insultingly obvious it is. The really key thing to beware of is the pervasiveness with which we’re inclined to put, or keep, the emotional blinders on in such a fashion that we either fail to proactively seek this evidence of a parnter’s commitment to change or else, seeking and discovering the partner’s lack of commitment, we find ways to minimize and ignore the urgency of the evidence’s meaning and message!
I will write about pathological hope as a defense mechanism next week.
(This article is copyrighted © 2011 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is for convenience’s sake and not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
Dear ErinB,
On the discussion about your “friend” who is needing help, and who has been there for you in the past, etc. and has GIVEN GIVEN and given some more….sometimes people will give and give and GIVE without taking back, even won’t allow you to give back, as a FORM OF CONTROL…by OBLIGATION.
Like SarahSmile’s guy, giving her a GIFT then demanding its repayment ON HIS TERMS…and using it as an excuse to contact her, and to keep her UNDER OBLIGATION. My egg donor tried to do that with me, and when I refused to accept her “gifts’ then she accused me of trying to STEAL her money. LOL
What I had to LEARN, and still have to re-learn from time to time, is that when someone gives us a GIFT we do NOT OWE them anything in return. A GIFT is freely given without expectation of being RE-PAYED either in kind or in favors.
Not that we should be UN-grateful for things folks do for us, but at the same time if we must BUY a “gift” of a service or something else, then it is NOT A GIFT it is a contractual agreement. Just like “pay” for a job is a contractual agreement and your boss owes you PAY for your job, not “gratitude,” and once he has paid you, things are “even”—-but until you are PAID he owes you for your services or your time.
Sarah, darling! You CONTRADICT yourself so much about this guy being “salvagable”—you talk about how abusive he is then you say he is “salvagable?” Ah come on darling! Get real! Get out of denial.
As for your egg donor and the “confusion” and the “drama”—gosh can I say I’ve BEEN THERE! The only thing that helps is NC….same with the BF. Dump this guy, pay him back and stay NC with him. Let his wife salvage him…cause he will SAVAGE her!
Yeah Oxy……I don’t feel an obligation…..but at first, I found myself jumping in to ‘rescue’ him…..or set him straight. He was clearly LOST!
But I made a small gesture….which made things clearer for me also……and stepped back, because there were some gaps I couldn’t find answers to. I decided that I didn’t want to put anymore energy into HIS issues. I told him that if he didn’t show up for his own life…..he couldn’t expect anyone else to know the facts better than himself.
He doesn’t expect anything from me…..I am programmed to help in return. Actually, I’ve done things for years for him……and just wanted to share my ‘talent’ to make his life a bit easier…..
He’s a single father…..of two kids……a great daughter and a son who’s on the verge of starting to get into minor trouble, son has numerous diagnosis’s and wants to be accepted, so will hang with whomever takes him in…..LOW SELF ESTEEM and then some. mother bailed after second kid was born…..and dad has struggled through all these years-Alone.
I’ve kicked his ass in gear……from afar. But…..I’ve not jumped in to ‘fix’. If HE wants to fix whats wrong….he can make that choice…..I’d be happy to show him tools.
I think he offers of himself to avoid dealing with his own issues. He’s a giver to everyone…..and doesn’t ever ask for help himself. He self sabotages……and will give at his own expense in avoidance.
Me thinks!
BUT…..there is this legal situation, I’m not sure of……it doesn’t ‘add’ up…..He could be being railroaded…..but he also could be not. I could see ‘either’ scenario……
So….rather than trying to figure it out up close…..I’ll just sit back and wait.
Superkid10:
I saw your protective measures and commend you for the steps you have taken – changing personal and work emails,s changing your land line and cell numbers. So often I see people on this site who have every excuse in the book for not doing this. My view is yeah, it’s a pain in the ass to let the people who need to know your new info. But, it’s necessary for the sake of NO CONTACT (and your sanity) to do so.
An important additional step is protecting your credit identity. I suggest contacting TransUnion, Experian, and Equifax and putting security freezes on your information at all 3 credit reporting agencies. By putting a security freeze on your information, NO potential creditor can access your information unless YOU specifically authorize the credit reporting agency(ies) to release the information to either that creditor or for a specific period of time (15 -30 days).
Please note that a security freeze is far different than a credit alert where the credit agencies for a short period are supposed to alert you to new inquiries while leaving your account open. Credit alerts fail miserably in most instances. Security freezes put you completely in charge.
If you think your S-ex (sociopath-ex) has access to your social security number or any of your other financial information, spend the money (varies by state, but ranges from free to 10 bucks) to freeze your information. Far too many people on this site can tell you sad tales of learning that our S-exs opened new accounts using our credit info, since their credit info is generally totally tanked. If you do need to lift a security freeze for any reason, you simply call up, type in your password, and pay a nominal charge. Far cheaper to pay the occasional fee to get your info released than to spend tens of thousands cleaning up a financial mess that isn’t yours and also seeing your credit score ruined through no act of your own.
Also, if you haven’t done so already, change the locks on your house. Amazing how those little cretins can’t seem to get the concept through their feeble little minds that your property is not their property.
Dear Matt,
Hi sweetie! So glad to see you posting! Great advice to SK as well!!! How in the world are you doing?
HI MATT! 🙂
ErinB-Are we going to the circus together again tonite? Maybe I had a couple to many beers, but I think I’m seeing clowns!
Lizzy – ABSOLUTE GREY ROCK.
Hey, OxDrover and ErinB:
Have finally just come up for air. Vanished for a couple of weeks at the beginning of September to go to Greece and Rome. Except for business travel, I had never seen Rome. I loved it. Then again, what’s not to love? Good scenery, good food, good looking men… I have decided I’m going to learn Italian and retire there (in about 35 years when my 101k returns to 401k status!)
I came back to work and had a precedent setting case dropped on my desk. Just finished it out on Friday. All I can say is that the financial crisis has entered a new realm – we are way past bad mortgages. Now we’re at the turn over the rocks stage of the financial crisis. And let me tell you, what’s crawling out from under those rocks is very, very ugly. Which, when I manage to nail these ugly critters is very, very satisfying.
Other than that, I seem to spend weekends puttering around my house. This weekend was spent planting 300 daffodil and corcus bulbs. For added excitement I’m trying to replace my door hinges which are all covered with paint with new brushed nickel ones. At this moment I think death is a valid option for anyone who paints over door hardware and/or strips the screws.
As for my other half – cannot believe it’s almost 2 1/2 years – he’s interviewing down in my neck of the woods, so, if things work out as I hope, we’ll finally be able to stop our every weekend shuffle/shuttle up/down the east coast. Have to say I got really lucky when i met my other half after the havoc my S-ex wreaked in my life.
To all those newbies on this site — it does get better. And you will meet somebody new. But, as OxDrover and ErinB will attest, man, I really had to do some hard soul searching and make a lot of hard changes before I was in a place where I could get into a healthy relationship.
s