LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: Winning a court battle with a sociopath

Editor’s note: Lovefraud received the following email from a reader who we’ll call “Juliet.” Juliet negotiated a settlement with her ex, the father of her daughter. Names and locations have been changed.

In the final papers, I am moving to Delaware and he gets supervised visits in Delaware (until age eight) for much longer than I would have if I were forced to fight in court and let the judge decide. Plus I am not paying for him to visit in Delaware. He agreed to pay child support of $450 once he gets a job. My daughter won’t leave Delaware with him until age 10, and she won’t fly alone to California until age 12.  And she only can leave for California over spring break and summer vacation.

How did I accomplish this?

For all of you in court battles over children with a Sociopath, I think there are two main reasons he and his lawyer agreed eventually:

1) I had a very accurate timeline of events that I submitted to the court along with emails from HIM to prove the important details (I did not deluge the court with all of back and forth stuff — I stuck to the main points of fraud)

a. Lied about being single when we met
b. Lied about having cancer
c. Lied about being sterile — which resulted in my pregnancy
d. Planned a wedding with me while married to someone else — attempting bigamy
e. Tried to commit suicide 3 days before wedding to get out of trouble of not being able to marry me
f. Continued lying to employers, employment fraud, theft records (i.e. not getting better)

And the MOST important piece of evidence I submitted to the court, in my opinion

2) The DSM IV Diagnosis of Anti Social Disorder — where it lists what is classified as being a Sociopath (I got this off the Out of the Fog website). I filled it out with examples of how his behavior fits this diagnosis (See below). This is important because — if he were to fight me in court about it. He could no longer have his psychologist say he is just depressed. His psychologist would have been forced to answer why he is NOT a Sociopath, which is much harder to do once the evidence is presented.

DSM-IV-TR Criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder (Sociopathy) -with names changed of course

Antisocial Personality Disorder (AsPD) is listed in the DSM-IV-TR as a Cluster B (dramatic, emotional, or erratic) Personality Disorder:

A pervasive pattern of disregard for and violation of the rights of others occurring since age 15, as indicated by THREE (or more) of the following:

1.Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest.

Examples of this in Bill: Theft (in college, in 2007, in 2009 — these are the ones I know about for certain). 8 tickets, 3 warrants out for arrest for Driving w/Suspended Licenses in 2011. Convicted of this before in 2007 as well.

2.Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure

Examples of this in Bill: Pathological Liar about having cancer, being sterile, being single, jobs, resumes, unemployment fraud, gambling history, and so on. Alias — Taylor Kendrick

3.Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead

Examples of this in Bill: Asked me to marry him while still married to Laura. The normal person would’ve at minimum gotten a divorce at that point. He didn’t. He just ignored it until 3 days before our wedding and then tried to kill himself to get out of the doghouse for not planning ahead. Impulsive shopper — always spends money at the stores daily if not watched.

4.Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults

Examples of this in Bill: Anger always when caught in one of his lies — then blames you for it. Was a bouncer in college (physical). Intimidation. Manipulation. Fight with Joe Smith as a kid. Fight with his dad throwing him across the room.

5.Reckless disregard for safety of self or others

Examples of this in Bill: constant tickets (unsafe driving). As a child big daredevil — broke 37 bones. Motorcycle crash. Skiing accident. Suicide attempt. (Sometimes wonder if he doesn’t have a form of Munchausen syndrome as he always either hurt himself when I was sick — broken toes, or he mimicked my symptoms (during pregnancy and he never had a panic attack until he SAW me actually have one)).

6.Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain steady work or honor financial obligations

Examples of this in Bill: in serious debt — over $50K to parents, another $15-20K from divorce, another $5-10K in new medical bills. Took out 3 payday loans and didn’t pay them. Most of these are in collections. Closed his checking account because he is too irresponsible with money to balance it. Plus — hasn’t paid his own child support/alimony most of the time making his parents pay it. In the 3 years I’ve known him, hasn’t held a job for longer than 6 months — if he bothered working at all. Resume is full of lies. Linked in says he is the OWNER of a restaurant which isn’t true.

7.Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another

Examples of this in Bill: after destroying my life, discarded me and was on phone to another woman for 282 minutes by day 4. Vacationed 2 out of 5 weeks since leaving my house which clearly shows lack of regard to our daughter and no remorse over the loss of a relationship that was to end in marriage. Moved onto dating sites within a day after breaking up with Sandra. Left ex wife via letter and left the state. Watched me get sicker throughout my pregnancy and still refused to get a job. Watched me plan a wedding and get excited about marrying him when he knew that it wasn’t going to happen — got excited watching me get my hair done, buy rings, get my hopes up. No remorse over what it cost me, my kids, or his parents to support him financially while he faked cancer.

The manual lists the following additional necessary criteria:

1.The individual is at least 18 years of age.

Bill is 40 years old

2.There is evidence of conduct disorder with onset before age 15 years.

Examples of this in Bill: He had trouble with lying and stealing at a young age according to his sister & mothers stories about taking money out of purses and so forth. He also had a violent fight with Joe Smith where he battered him without remorse for suggesting his parents had sex. Big daredevil as a kid showing no regard for personal safety — broken 37 bones. The Uncle Arthur molestation story. Also told me a story of throwing his dad across the room as a teenager when in an argument. And so on . . .

3.The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.

Bill is not schizophrenic — does not have delusions or hear voices. Bill is not manic — too lazy to be, harder to get him to do anything than to keep up with him.

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58 Comments on "LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: Winning a court battle with a sociopath"

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Unfortunately, here in NJ I have been advised by my lawyer NOT to even mention Narcissism or Sociopathy.

Supposedly, the courts don’t like us diagnosing our partners or using labels.

We can however, point out the behaviors

Well, maybe the family courts wouldn’t like this, but I can tell you the PAROLE BOARD WOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT…..I JUST DECIDED HOW I WILL WORD MY NEXT PETITION TO THE PAROLE BOARD.!!!!!!


I am also dealing with this exact situation. The Judge in my case has ignored evidence of domestic violence and emotional abuse of the children, rather than have my ex-wife evaluated or bring in a third party.

The Judge was fooled initially and now recognizes that if he were to allow an evaluation, he would have to over turn all his previous rulings. He has denied requests for a Court appointed attorney, a Guardian Ad Litem, a parenting coordinator, a motion to remand to the JDR Court and a motion to recuse himself.

This article comes closest to describing my case. http://www.nccps.org.au/misc/PSYCHOPATH-AGGRESSORS-IN-THE-FAMILY-LAW-COURTS.html

I am being bullied into silence by the Judge about my concerns for the emotional welfare of my children. The Judge in my case, does not want there to be a personality disorder otherwise, it will be revealed that he was fooled.

I need a powerful attorney that is willing to speak truth to power and force the issue of psychopathy with the Court.

My ex-wife’s father has paid over $1 million in legal fees to keep me from my children.

There is definitely a ‘conspiracy of silence’ as Hervey Cleckley described it in his book Mask of Sanity, going on in my case.

I need an attorney willing to raise this issue with the Court, otherwise I may never see my children again.

Dear cmackney,

I am so sorry you are fighting such a well heeled bear….the amount of money a person has or does not have should NOT determine the fate of the children in court.

There is lots of support here for you, but unfortunately…we aren’t pro bono lawyers. I wish we were!

Stick around though there’s lots to learn and that may be of comfort to you. May God bless you and your children.

cmackney ~ so sorry you are going through such an ordeal. Here are some suggestions regarding finding an attorney, with a warning that this process will be very time consuming.

If you are in a domestic/family court and they have their records on line, search through cases that have been in front of that particular judge and see if there are attorney’s names that come up more than once as “winners” in front of that judge. See who that judge seems to respect.

If those records are not available on line, or if nothing turns up, check your district court of appeals web site and search records of cases listed as example (smith vs. smith) or in juvenile cases only initials will be listed as example (Re: NG). Check for attorneys that have a good record with appeals in such cases.

GAL’S that also handle custody cases will sometimes have a background in social services. If you could obtain a list of GAL’s used by your court or a neighboring court. They are also listed in custody cases in appeal’s court.

Get a list and start interviewing, if that attorney can’t take your case, ask their opinion of another.

Even public defenders that also take cases for fees are good at “representing the under dog” and are not afraid to go up against high priced attorneys. Check out their records also.

Best of luck to you.

Thank you for this very helpful blog post!

My heart breaks for any person that has a child with a sociopath!! As I read these stories about other people’s experiences with sociopath’s I am shocked over and over again! I can’t wrap my brain about how any human being can treat other people like that…lie and lie and lie some more with absolutely no remorse! I swear to God, I think if they x-rayed these people’s chests they would find a black hole where there should be a heart!

I filed for an restraining order and an annulment to my marriage based on fraud when my ex narcissistic sociopath “husband” (pastor) was arrested (for separate issues) after 9 months of married to him (it was absolute hell). I was told by two lawyers (consultations) that I would not be able to get an annulment based on fraud, one lawyer wanted a $10,000 retainer and the second one wanted a $13,000 retainer and there was no way I could afford that, no way! The annulment became number two on my list of priorities after it became obvious that a restraining order was necessary for my personal safety. I worked very hard on getting that restraining order without the help of a lawyer and was granted a three year order of protection. After that I went to work on the annulment and by the grace of God I was granted an annulment based on fraud! I found a woman in the court offices that helped me with my paper work. There are people out there that will help you!! I stuck to the facts that I could prove about his lying and I had a lot a documents to prove it and evidence of his sex addiction (he denied the sex addiction) by documenting his Facebook pages under fake names and keeping the web addresses and taking desktop snapshots of his fake name Facebook pages before they were removed by Facebook security. Fortunately, the self proclaimed “genius” left a lot a evidence on his lies!! Pastor genius had also lied on his minister applications, so those documents alone spoke volumes! All the while I was the only one working and paying for marriage counseling he had a fake name Facebook page stating that his goal in life was finding “the ultimate lap dance!”

Now the “pastor” has had all his church credentials rescinded. He writes on his blog and twitter claiming to be the victim again and again and again. He moved over to another church in town because too many people at his former church were on to his schemes. He was literally asked to leave the church were he was on staff as a “pastor”! He is a master manipulator and he paints big elaborate stories about how he has been abused and persecuted. He goes straight to the top, he moves into a new church and spends tons of time with the senior pastor in an attempt to establish credibility. I have heard several completely different versions of his so called “testimony”! He is looking for a woman to be his sugar momma! He will claim that he is on the verge of this job or that…not true! He has no intention of getting a job, he is stringing you along as long as possible, promising you his love and commitment! He will claim that he has never been loved like this before in his life! He figures out what makes you tick and he begins to work his con. Everything is deception with him, a vapor, no substance, no compassion, no love, just something to get what he wants from you. He talks a lot about love…a lot!! His words are completely empty! If you are a Christian he will use your faith against you, to control and manipulate you.

I never thought of making a case for my “opinion” that he is a sociopath and of the DSM-IV-TR Criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder (Sociopathy). He strongly meets every single requirement and then some!! I was also advised by a lawyer (friend) NOT to even mention Narcissism or Sociopathy, she said the minute you play that card then it looks like you are the crazy one. Tough call!!! I am so glad that it worked out well for this woman! God bless her! What a freaking nightmare!!

I highly recommend reading “Women Who Love Too Much” by Robin Norwood and “The Betrayal Bond: Breaking Free of Exploitive Relationships” by Patrick J. Carnes!! After I realized that it was all a lie, I felt crushed and humiliated. The person that I loved didn’t even exist in reality! Reality was that he never cared about me at all and he even had a full blown affair with a “friend” of mine while we were still married. Well…at least it was over fairly quickly! It was all just a huge con job! I have learned a lot! I am deeply thankful for my friends and family. I am deeply thankful for professional counselors that can see through the lies of a sociopath. I am deeply thankful for my LoveFraud sisters that are brave enough to share their experiences, struggles and victories as we struggle to heal and overcome the path of destruction left behind by a sociopath! God bless you, each and every one of you! It really does get better!

Thank you!

Dear Hosanna,

THANK YOU!!!! for that uplifting testimony. It is stories of success like yours that will give confidence and realistic HOPE to those still trying to come out of the FOG (fear, obligation and Guilt!)

You did a great job to get the protective order and to get the annulment! TOWANDA!!!!!! Great job and God bless.

In response to Hosanna’s post where she says there should be a black hole where there should be a heart, well from my experience with the psyco that i was with his was filled with a solid chunk of ice.

I am currently going through a divorce with my sociopathic husband. We have a 5 year old son; the first 4 years of my son’s life- he had very little interest in. Before I realized what my husband was, I assumed it was his way of punishing me for being a stay at home mom. This past year, he has become much more involved, and I believe I see genuine care and affection that he has towards our son. Is it possible for a true sociopathic father to love/care for his child; he always wanted a son- I believe he sees his son as an extention of himself. He also has said that once his son turns 4- it’ll be all about him and daddy. How do I protect our son from any psychological affect that my soon to be ex may have on him- but not limit normal custody if he’s being a good father?

welcome to LF, I hope it gives you the support you need.

It might be easier to answer your questions if you tell us something about your story and why you think your husband is a spath.

As your son’s male role model, it’s going to be difficult for him not to influence the child. Children learn from what they see modeled.

From the stories I’ve heard, it seems to me that the worst combination of parents is when the father is a spath and the mother is a martyr. Since you can’t change what your husband is, you can only control you. I suggest that you model an image of a very strong woman with boundaries who is firmly in touch with reality and who also doesn’t shield her son from reality but does offer him the tools and support he needs to stay firmly grounded in it.

It would be good if you can maintain cordial relations with your ex. You know he will try to create drama in your life. Refuse to participate.

Welcome, Bright dawn,

I agree with Skylar. A REAL honest-to-goodness psychopath/sociopath will not “love” a child, or anyone else, but sees them as an EXTENSION of themselves, or a possession to CONTROL.

KNOWLEDGE IS POWER, so I suggest that you educate yourself on the qualities found in healthy people and in not-so-healthy people.

Also, Dr. Liane Leedom’s blog and her books on “parenting the at-risk child” (a child who is the son/dtr of a psychopath) is an excellent resource for parents. “Just like his father” is her book on the children of psychopaths. She has a son by her psychopathic ex husband so being a psychiatrist she has a VESTED interest in studying children whose parents are psychopaths and helping them to become healthy adults.

Good luck and keep on learning. God bless.


Oh my

Prickly speaking, he is annoying. Shalom

Congrats…..from one successful woman to another.
I think it’s so important to share our experiences in the courts and how we succeeded through tenacity and courage and strength.
There are so many who ‘give up’ or maintain no hope…..you know full well it’s ‘do-able’, and DID IT YOURSELF! Doors closed….YOU FLUNG THEM BACK OPEN! You figured it out…..and didn’t give up!
My hat it off to you as I bow down……Thank you for sharing your success’s and please continue to post to other survivors as ‘hope’ is something that everyone can hold onto!
THANK YOU and CONGRATULATIONS…..I know how difficult your road has been~!

I’m sorry your experiencing doors closing…..but not surprised.
I highly recommend you do some research on your judge and get to know ‘who/what’ your dealing with and format your case around ‘what’ it is he is willing to hear through HIS filters.
There are many ways to say a cat is black!
It’s your job to figure what language he speaks.

It doesn’t matter how much money is being spent…..it doesn’t matter…….it can be done with -0- money….PRO SE…..if needed. It’s all a matter of identifying the language….and presenting your case in that ‘language’.

If the round peg isn’t fitting nicely in the square hole……DRILL A NEW DAMN HOLE! Stop forcing it!

Pull back and renegotiate your aproach.

Good Luck.

EB – is here with her drill [email protected]


I keep the full tool belt around!

Hey Hens…..I met a boy last night!!! 🙂
A reeal NICE boy!
OOOoooohh….GO EB!

Boy as in Toy?

Um….HOPEFULLY one day! 🙂

oooOOOOOhhh this is good news EB – somebody around here needs some spice – due keep me posted….

My GF had a Birthday party for a mutual friend…..he was looking at me from the time I walked in. 🙂
I was too embarrased to just go up to him, because I didn’t know if he was single, there with a date or married….didn’t want to jump off that cliff.
So I remained coooooool. I moved over in his vicinity to chat with my gf’s hubby and he was looking over at me……and I looked at him, caught eye contact and he stood up and introduced himself….full eye contact, big (straight teeth) smile…..and we conversed! He’s as cute as a button and my gf’s husband was cracking up at how flirty I was…..
He was going fishing later that night out to an area I LOVE…..I made it known I love to fish that lake and how beautiful that area was……he said….Oh, you like to fish!?!?
I said. ofcourse…….
He’s a divorceee who just moved up here…….his brother lives by me.
He was unassuming and nice with a seemingly kind spirit.

I think the bouncy hair and freshly shaven legs and my new perfume helped the cause!
Shitles…..now I must keep it up! 🙂

see I told ya to keep yer legs shaved – yer listening to your big bro – good for you eb – straight teeth? wow – how refreshing/

Salt n peppa hair….straight teeth
It’s been awhile……I felt myself squeeking as I spoke to him! (musta been the rust!)

you know what to do. recon. find out more about him.

exhale – I am glad to read salt and peppa hair – I was afraid to ask how old this BOY is – he’s a man you dont need a boy – blue eyes – oh be careful and dont drown……get ya some wd40 for them ole rusty joint’s = get ready to go fishen and hope you catch somethin good.

Oh yeah Skylar……he’ll be thoroughly investigated…..(Poor guy!).

Oh MY Hens….whatdayathink…..he’s one of Jr’s friends…..LOL
And Hens….I already told ya….I LOVE salt n peppa hair! Just a thing I got! 🙂


This is fascinating. I noticed that spaths were “story-driven characters” when I first escaped from the ex-spath. You can manipulate them by telling them a story with them as the hero. They are obsessed with dramatic stories because it makes them feel “real”.

Now DARPA is researching that idea.

EB Dont scare him off with a thousand questions and dont reveal to much about your past scumbucket husband, if you look hard enuff you will find something bad about everybody. Just focus on a friend, a fishin buddy and have fun without worrying so much..you will see red flags if they are there but dont be miss sherlock holms until and if you do..

Thank you darlen……That’s why I love my Hens!!!!!

pumpkin time – xxoo

Gnight sweetie….XXOO


Sky – haven’t read the link yet, but i tell ya, the spath is ALL about the character driven story wherein her characters are all heroes – even if they are dually victims or bastards.

i think this is a tell to add to our list of red flags.

I think you are on to something with your comment, “I noticed that spaths were ‘story-driven characters’ when I first escaped from the ex-spath…They are obsessed with dramatic stories because it makes them feel ‘real’.” This was a huge factor in my relationship with my ex spath!! He is very well read and he is a big fan of poetry, I remember telling him once that he speaks his own language of hyperbole! Not only was it hyperbole, most of his grand stories are a complete lie! He takes a grain of truth and puts major spin on it, or just makes stuff up that never happened…whatever works best, and he is good at it!

“the spath is ALL about the character driven story wherein her characters are all heroes ”“ even if they are dually victims or bastards.”
I will add this to my list of red flags!

I am so glad you met someone, I hope he is a good man! I appreciate seeing a survivor of a spath relationship even wanting to go “there”…I have a long long way to go in that department! One of the good things about this online community is the encouragement that comes from reading about the “moving on” part of this journey! THANK YOU!

Thanks for the pep talk. You are absolutely right. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, there is only so long they can say that its not a duck.

Its not even a matter of saying it in their language. Its not chinese. Its what is in the best interest of the children. A personality disorder known for creating chaos, depression, confusion and keeping children from their father is not recommended by anyone, anywhere.

The circumstances of my situation are such that the Court can not avoid ruling on psychopathy in my case. They can pretend it doesnt exist if they want, but it does and appropriate steps must be taken to monitor the emotional welfare of the children and minimize the conflict.


You know your case well…..it just seemed as if you are not achieving your ultimate goal of presenting her in the light which would help your kids.
Sometimes just a simple change in vocabulary will work wonders…….I found in my dealings with the family courts….that using the phrase CLUSTER B PERSONALITY DISORDER gained attention 100% of the time….it provoked the legal folks to ask for more info on ‘what’ that meant. And research it on their own……and find a connection on their own.
THis way I wasn’t shoving a platform down anyones throats…..they asked! Hence willing to receive the info.
Ofcoarse if your ex is not diagnosed…..that’s another battle altogether.
Protecting your children is #1…….
Toxic is toxic……and being diagnosed sociopath won’t remove your children from her care……it’s the documentation of harmful behaviors being repeated and presented to a judge ……over and over….that will.

Like a judge told my eldest Jr…….”We are NOT in the business of breaking up families”. Jr responded……”you are not breaking up our family, my father did that all with his own chosen behaviors and abuse!”

erin – wow, hats off to jr!!!!


WOW!!! GIve Junior a hug from his Auntie Oxy!!!! WOW!!! that is just a profound statement he made to the judge!

One of my “boy scouts” (young man, college student, and now an adult leader in scouts as well as Eagle Scout etc) is here this weekend for “therapy” and to just get away from the stress his mom and sibs are going through with his P-father, who fraudulently took out “educational loans” in his son’s name and now son has discovered as he went to enroll in the spring semester that all his educational loans have been taken out by daddy-o and maxed out, and now he is in a double bind. Stay out of school and the loans become payable immediately, or go back to school without enough money to pay tuition….not much choice….last Christmas he had given the money he had saved for college (by working) to his mom for his younger sibs to have a Christmas so now has no back up resources because he didn’t know about the “loans” until about a month ago. This is such a GREAT young man, and his sperm donor has abused him and the rest of the kids, all the while keeping up a FAKE MASK of “loving and responsible” father and citizen….I’m just so angry at this man and how he has treated his wife and kids….not that any of it surprises me, it is just “typical” psychopathic fall out. Like toxic waste, it pollutes anyone it comes into contact with, and each psychopath doesn’t just harm JUST 1 or 2 people, but MANY PEOPLE to one degree or another.

Oxy…..what a SKANK of a scumbag…..Typical though..
They always have an opera song to sing…..ME, ME, ME, ME, ME, me,meeeeeeeeeee!

It sounds like this kid will make it IN SPITE of his father……

Yeah….this was a private chat with Jr and Judge…..and Jr didn’t think the judge ‘heard’ him…..OH YES SHE DID…..LOUD N CLEAR! It was clear when she walked into the courtroom afterwards……there was a great big elephant sitting on top of spath! 🙂
That’s my boy!

You shared about this terrific young man and his family delimma just recently. It is so wonderful for you to give him a place to decompress.

What a terrible situation. Dad needs to go to jail for ID theft and fraud. But I understand that if prosecuted, mom loses income from Dad who is family breadwinner. In my book, this is double tragedy for the son. What his dad did and the emotional extortion his mom is doing to him. The guilt trip! Really upsetting that she’s asking her son to sacrifice for her and the other kids. Guess he should b/c they are more valuable. That mom would get a job and take charge while Dad does time for his crime… no, the emotional burden must be on Jr. Carp Carp Carp. A pox on dad and MOM. Yes, dad was awful to mom but SHE’s THE MOM, not the kid. If mom did the right thing, no it’s not easy, but it is the RIGHT/MORALLY correct thing and what a role model that would be for the family members that matter.

*&*^%!!!! – Katy

Dear Katy,

Mom DOES have a job and is working hard to raise her kids and keep a roof over their heads. This young man still lives at home so he CAN help out with the younger kids still at home. It is a GREAT family of kids…and all the kids seem to be doing pretty well though this horrible divorce is taking a toll on all of them I am sure.

Mom had to get a restraining order against dad, and he has violated it in intent and substance….done all kinds of nasty things to the kids and to mom….and things just to BE EVIL, but not things that he really “gets anything” out of except being EVIL to his kids….like cutting this son (age 23) out of his medical coverage though it does not save dad a single Dollar, he cuts the son out just to be EVIL….mom’s job doesn’t have medical insurance….so what insurance the kids all have is via daddy-dearest….so now the son needs therapy and medication, but can’t get it because daddy-dearest dropped it.

Just typical psychopathic behavior, hurt others just for the hell-of-it, and I get so bent out of shape when one of my “boys” gets emotionally and physically beat on by a psychopathic-type parent….I mean here is a kid who WORKS hard to provide for his own living expenses, and to go to college and get good grades, helps out his mom with the younger kids, volunteers to mentor younger kids in scouting, and then his sperm donor not only abuses him but takes his educational loans through FRAUD so the kid has to pay them back, starting in the spring semester if he can’t afford to go back to school because he has no federal educational loans.

The mom is fighting hard to keep her head afloat with 5 kids still at home besides the 23 year old….and several of them are in therapy as well….because of this daddy-dearest! It just hurts me when my friends are hurt by someone who is high in P traits, and they are doing the best they can to live up to a HIGH STANDARD of behavior and responsibility and they get the props knocked out from under them.

Nothing “unusual” about this case, just that I happen to be more aware of it, just typical P-type behavior. TYPICAL. PAINFUL. UNNECESSARY. HATEFUL. And I hope there is a hot spot in hell for every person who hurts their child, whether that child is 3 days, 3 months, 3 years, or 3 decades old.

Thanks for a little more of the insight into this family’s struggle.

I am still mystified why son would have to pay the financial burden dumped on him by a criminal committing a crime. After all, WE the public do not have to pay for the debts that our ID theft perpertrators do to us.

We are on the same page when it comes to crimes against children, I do not stand by when I see it happen. But something is not logical to me in the insistence that the boy pays a loan his father ILLEGALLY perpetrated.

As an escapee from the nuthouse, I do get that the world of spaths is crazymaking, I lived far worse than what you describe for this young man. I am supportive. But the burden does not belong to the son, it’s the father’s and NO LAW forces such an illegal debt on the son.


I appreciate your comments and input. My situation is the way it is because the Judge simply does not wish to consider psychopathy. I think he knows what would happen if he ordered her to have a psychological evaluation. He would have to over turn all of his previous rulings if she was the one with the severe personality disorder.

I have given evidence of physical abuse, emotional abuse, manipulation, fraud, lying, a traumatic brain injury and even a felony and the judge has ignored it all. He only wants to keep his focus on me. Blame the victim.

It is as if I am being raped and I am being told to stop screaming about it, be quiet and accept it. He wants me to stop before he will let me see my children. Its so messed up.

Well…..if giving up isn’t an option for you……..then dig for a new aproach.
You can go either way!
I know the feeling of doors being slammed……you just gotta kick em right back in so hard….the hinges break and cant’ close on you again!

Don’t settle for victim…….it can be habitual! FIND A WAY!!!!! GET MAD, GET ANGRY……and build from there!

Good luck, i’m out of ideas.


You are right, he is not legally responsible for a debt that was NOT his, that his father forged his name on…BUT…he would have to PROVE THIS and that means attorneys, charging his father with a crime, etc., and right now the young man literally does not have the emotional strength to accomplish that. Sometimes we just have to “let it ride” in order to survive and other times we must “fight to the death”— I personally would like to see the young man fight it out, charge his father with a crime, etc. but at THIS POINT it is not being done. I am not the one who has to live with it, or endure it, or fight it, or give up on it….it is NOT MY DECISION….it is the young man’s decision, and the consequences are his and his mother’s and the siblings. While it might be “satisfying” for him to put his father in jail, he has 5 younger sibs that are depending on that child support from his dad’s job as well as medical insurance etc . if the dad loses his job because he is accused of a crime (and as a state employee he would lose his job) the consequences to the family as a whole might be much worse. Each of us have to make our own decisions about what to fight and what to let ride. It makes me angry because I love this young man and his family and I hate like heck that they are suffering because this man is a psychopath, but it ain’t my responsibility to make the decision, and they are the ones who must live with the consequences of their decisions.


I guess where was this blog on Sept 30th when I asked the Judge for a an Evaluation, he denied it and I was sitting there looking like the crazy person. I hired and attorney that day, so I can stay out of the line of fire.

You made an interesting statement..
“Ofcoarse if your ex is not diagnosed”..that’s another battle altogether.”
She to my knowledge has only been diagnosed with Major Depression Disorder, but I feel 100% that she suffers from the APD, but bc she looks well together on the exterior it’s hard getting someone to looke at the interior. She is under the care of a mental health profession, but I don’t beleive they have dealt with someone like her before. I believe they believe all the lies and garabage. We are working to a plan and I need input on how to get her evaluated properly, so she can get a proper diagnoses.
I fear for the safety of the children.

Von- Haven’t seen you before. Whats your story?

Oxy, I understand the position of the wife with the kids. Losing his income because he is in jail would be tough, but the wife can apply for and receive Social Security for each child Because their father is in jail. (My mom’s Welfare Whore neighbor does this for her three kids who’s fathers are each in jail.) What amount each, I do not know, but if he has been working- the money is there.

She can also apply for help with housing, food and other government assistance programs through the state. Again, I’m not sure how much she would recieve or what all she would get, but she is working, she pays her taxes (Social workers wages come from this) so I feel she is and rightly should be entitled to some kind of help. She should not at all feel like she is asking for a hand-out, but the help and assistance she has paid into the system (through taxes) to fairly receive.

The 23 year-old in need of meds, should also be able to receive state funded health care which would and should, cover his needs. Counselling may also be covered under this as well. If nothing else- it is all worth checking into. It would be a HUGE statement to the spath that they are not taking his crap anymore or playing his stupid games.

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