It can be pretty tricky navigating the continuum of narcissistically disturbed individuals, attempting to separate the salvageables from the unsalvageables. Yet, there are two awfully basic, interrelated questions that can help you cut to the chase, and guide your decision to keep going, or cut bait.
Here they are:
1) Is your partner someone who genuinely recognizes he has a problem respecting you?
2) If he genuinely recognizes this, then does he have the genuine motivation to confront his disrespectful behaviors and attitudes (be they chronic or episodic; devastating in their impact or more quietly, gradually corrosive of your goodwill)?
Ultimately, it comes down to these separate, yet related, questions.
If the answer to either of them proves no, or probably not, then it’s boogie on out of the relationship time. If the answer to both questions proves yes, or probably yes (and it must be “yes!” to both questions!), then you have a basis to hope for improvement in the quality of the relationship.
But wait a second! I hear the shrieks! “How do you evaluate how genuine someone is, especially a manipulative personality?”
Well, the truth is, it’s difficult to assess how “genuine” someone is, on any level, no less a really good manipulator. But you must still make this assessment in an ongoing fashion, and you must make it without certainty of its accuracy.
Now, we always need to be clear about this: Sometimes, when you are dealing with a sociopath tremendously skilled at dissimulation (as a great many sociopaths are), it may be impossible to bust him before he’s had the chance to wreak terrible, longstanding and long-lasting levels of destruction. God knows this is too often the case. Of course, Donna Anderson in her upcoming book will arm her readers with incredible tools to do precisely this—bust these harder-to-bust sociopathic types.
But in many cases, more than one thinks, partners can be flushed-out for lacking true recognition of their disrespectful behaviors and the true motivation to modify them.
Of course I can’t stress sufficiently that it’s not enough to flush these individuals out: once flushed out, you need to be willing to overcome defenses like denial and pathological hope to heed the red flags you’ve identified. (I’m going to write about what I call pathological hope in my next article. I see it as a defense mechanism that can be almost as self-destructive as the sociopath can be destructive.)
So what are we really looking for here? What do we really need to see? Yes, we are looking for recognition, but most of all we are looking for change. Recognition without change is ultimately useless, a big tease.
And we are looking not for signs of small, itty bitty changes, but real, durable, meaningful, yes big changes. If the changes are too subtle, too slow in coming, too contingent on things like his “moods,” or the alignment of the stars, or if they’re subject to “relapses” of any sort (and especially rationalized relapses), then”¦bzzzzzz”¦.it’s time to send him back to the dugout, permanently, to sit his a** on the bench with his fellow underperformers.
Why do I emphasize big changes and downplay small, subtle changes?
Because we are talking about a big problem, and big problems, on which the quality, integrity and perhaps even safety of your life literally depend, demand big changes. The evidence of the commitment to these changes needs to be absolutely unmistakable; but again I repeat: the key thing is less the evidence of such recognition than the evidence of the changes!
Let me give a small, somewhat tangential but, at least, one specific example of what I’m saying. Let’s say you’ve been feeling disrespected by your partner and for you this is a very serious problem. You’ve been feeling variously misunderstood, blown off, violated, neglected, abused, mistrustful; feeling, let’s say, relegated to a hurtfully low priority in your partner’s world.
In a word, you aren’t feeling respected, and this has become, for you, a serious problem that you share with him. You request that he join you for couples counseling to address your, and perhaps his, concerns?
His answer is “no.”
Well, the answer, “No,” to your request for his participation in couples therapy, is a “You just struck out, pal” answer. That’s a damning, indictable answer. “No” is a virtual affirmation of what you’ve shared with him you’ve been experiencing—his disregard of you and the relationship.
“No” is an utterly lame answer, especially if you’ve requested his participation in couples counseling in a non-belligerent, sincere, and utterly serious fashion.
“No” is tantamount to declaring officially, “I am uninvested in this relationship.”
It may come in countless forms, among them:
“You’re unhappy, that’s your problem.”
“Go get help yourself.”
“I don’t need help. You’re the one with the complaints.”
“Nothing makes you happy. You are insatiable.”
“It’s pointless”¦seriously, get your own sh*t together first and then let’s talk.”
These, and countless similar responses, which blame you and exculpate him, while simultaneously affirming his perspective of the relationship not as a unity or partnership but more as a “sole proprietorship—¦these kinds of responses tell you all you need to know.
But now let’s say he says “yes,” and joins you in couples therapy. That’s nice. If he’s a sociopath, as I’ve written previously, you will hope the therapist will be shrewd enough to know that he, the therapist, is dealing with a sociopath. Because sociopaths do not belong in couples therapy. But for purposes of this argument, let’s imagine he’s not a full-blown sociopath.
In any case, as I’ve been suggesting, it is the evidence, ultimately, that will tell the tale.
He will either change meaningfully and permanently, and begin making these changes in earnest, very soon; or, he won’t.
He may or may not talk the talk effectively, persuasively. But if he doesn’t walk the walk and maintain the walk, you will have gotten your answer.
Walking the walk doesn’t mean it’s necessarily onesided; you too may have changes to make on your end. Nobody’s perfect, and even if you’re involved with a salvageable jerk (the best case scenario and hope), that doesn’t mean you too don’t have room to make some changes.
But let’s not kid ourselves, or let him kid us. If he isn’t motivated to leave you feeling more fulfilled, loved, respected and less neglected; if there isn’t evidence of his sincere desire to do this, and evidence of his willingness to work hard at doing this, and finally, evidence of his success at doing this, well then again”¦.we have our answers.
And let me repeat this point: the changes need to be sustained. Transitory changes made from desperation are more likely to revert as complacency creeps backs in. The regression, as complacency reenters the picture, will tell you something very important, namely that the changes weren’t made from a deep, or deeply honest enough, place.
The interesting thing, here, isn’t that any of this is a news flash or rocket science, because to the contrary I’m aware how almost insultingly obvious it is. The really key thing to beware of is the pervasiveness with which we’re inclined to put, or keep, the emotional blinders on in such a fashion that we either fail to proactively seek this evidence of a parnter’s commitment to change or else, seeking and discovering the partner’s lack of commitment, we find ways to minimize and ignore the urgency of the evidence’s meaning and message!
I will write about pathological hope as a defense mechanism next week.
(This article is copyrighted © 2011 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is for convenience’s sake and not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
A few years back I had just gotten the courage to post for the first time. Sure enough with my luck a spath started posting. A few bloggers were interacting and encouraging him/her. I was beyond triggered and ed off. Asked why anyone would even bother. One of the bloggers posted that ‘we should love those who are incapable of loving’. WTF Call it paranoia or whatever but I didn’t post again until this year and with a new name.
Thank you Donna. Early in our raw stage or even a few years into our recovery, it is the very last thing any of us need.
I did happen to notice that the ‘compassionate spath interactor’ always popped up at the same time as various spaths.
Hens: So sorry.
Shalom
I wonder if anyone can identify with my current feelings and maybe offer some good advice or another perspective??
At the moment I feel totally confused, angry, bereft, jealous and wretched. My heart wants him to contact me, which he will. My head wants to never see him again. Why is my gut instinct so clearly wrong?
I don’t think he would ever physically hurt me or anyone else but why has he continued a relationship with his ex(-they were never married) when he has no respect for her either? Do I believe him when he says its to do with money? If its not money -what is it?? It isn’t love!
PK, for the spaths it’s all about power and control. It has nothing to do with you personally. Money is a symbol of power and control, so is sex.
When your spath told you it’s to do with money, that was a tell. He was telling you that in the game he plays with her, he keeps score with money. He manipulates her emotions in order to “score” money.
In the game he plays with you, what does he score?
One day my spath said, “from now on I’m all about MONEY.”
I thought he meant he was going to get serious with his life and get a vocation. Now, I believe that he really meant was that he was going to start having sex with people who have money. I remembered that he said it when he’d gotten old, fat and bald. He could no longer score any young girls or guys, so instead he was going to lower his standards to old vulnerable women with money.
This is what I think because it was one of those statements he made in the same manner as his tells.
Thank you skylar that does make sense.
I also want revenge- what is the best way to hurt him or will he be resiliant?
Believe it or not PK, but NC is very painful to them. They are control freaks and when you don’t allow him to control you, you win, he doesn’t score, he loses.
For some spaths, losing control is so painful that they kill you for it. Be very careful how you do it. I NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER would have believed that my spath was capable of murder. He never even hit me. But when I remembered how he ended up with the helicopter, I KNEW that he was capable of ANYTHING. Then I figured out that he had been poisoning me and I knew HOW he intended to kill me. That’s why when I left my spath, I did not look for revenge and I did not give him drama. I gray rocked him.
Does it even matter what reason he continues with her? He cheats her with you and cheats you with her. When people treat someone else wrongly, especially when they pretend to that wronged person that they love them, then there is no argument whatsoever that you are the exception to the rule. Au contraire.
He uses you both to keep you both involved by your jealousy an fear to lose him to another woman. He uses her to push your competition buttons, so you will feel jealous and threatened and will compete with each other of who is the most generous woman of the two, who sacrifices the most for him. He does it so you’re distracted from thinking and feeling he’s the real problem. And he pushes the same buttons with her.
In the OW of my ex-spath I see all the signs of fear. Deep down she feels he’s not to be trusted, I’m sure. I can’t imagine he acts any different to her than he did to me, his ex-wife, and his other two ex-gf and anyone else I don’t know about. I felt the pressure initially to get him to my country ASAP. At the time I told myself that ‘I’ did not want to have a long distance relationship, but if I’m really honest it was because even then my gut knew that if I didn’t buy him the tickets and didn’t get him over ASAP he’d try with another woman. And that’s what I did. I had at least some reasoning left to get him back on the plane to Nicaragua after 3 months. I was getting low on cash, had a personal loan to pay off for his rash expenses and trouble he’d get himself into, and I was unwilling to get myself into a captive situation where he’d be here illegally, and I could be blackmailed into paying ridiculous sums with whomever he got into trouble with. And I gained some reasoning to think… well his divorce and his papers are his responsibility, not mine. And if he can’t do them, then I should see that as a sign. I ignored that sign for too long, but at least I kept it status quo on that regard.
She hauled him over to London 3 weeks after he dumped me. I know he stayed in the UK for longer than 3 months, which would be the maximum he could stay there legally as a tourist. I know he would return end of September to Nicaragua and would travel for Britain again end of November. I found out this weekend per chance that she’s in Nicaragua too. She must have traveled with him there and stay with him.
In short, she probably doesn’t allow him out of her sight, like a watchdog. So in half a year time she travels to Nicaragua and Costa Rica twice for two months, and even if he paid perhaps a part of his tickets (like one to go), I know he does not have the money to pay for 4 flights to Europe. If she does any work there, it won’t pay much at all. And I doubt that a job in Europe where she can take off for 4 months will pay much either, unless she’s taking unpaid leave or quit.
She knows about me; she knows he betrayed me with several women and lied to the both of us during their initial 1.5 month.
I suspect he blamed it on me for not working out, because I didn’t travel enough to Nicaragua (couldn’t afford to with my job, nor financially) and didn’t pay for him to visit enough… And instead of taking a step back and look at the big picture of the financial repercussions and the non-realistic demands of him on a foreign woman, she gives in, and keeps close to him wherever he needs to go.
I’m not jealous of her at all though. I kinda feel sad about it for her. Because I know it means that she’s subjecting herself to his abuse more intensely than I ever did, and does not allow herself time and space for herself to think and feel more independent from him. Whatever I’m going through now, it will be worse for her in the end. And the more she invests, the less likely will she be willing to see him for what he is: a scumbag loser parasite with no credentials and no true feelings, who doesn’t give a shit about how much money she uses for him and denies for herself. And in contrast to me, she knows of his ugly past with his ex-es… I only found out the truth after his mask came off and I contacted several ex-es. That she ignored this knowledge, only makes her more vulnerable to keep on her self-imposed blindness.
I know this because he used his complaints about his ex-wife to influence me: he complained that she didn’t allow him anything when he was in the US, and that he was stuck at her house day in day out, no going out, no making friends, etc… So what did I do when he was living here with me? I bought his weekly 5gr of dope across the border (and as a teacher you don’t want it on the record that you’re importing, even if for legal private use) and gave him an allowance to go out, introduced him to friends, and over half the time didn’t go out with him. I did whatever I could so that he would have at least his own life where I live… but with my money… meanwhile I was working until 2am for the schools and depriving myself of everything that I could so he could go and have fun, while I couldn’t.
I can’t be jealous of her, nor pity her, nor be angry with her. I know she’s a victim and she’s deeper into the relationshit than I ever was for someone who’s worth totally nada, nothing, zilch.
Gray rocked?? Is that becoming very boring, dull and un interesting??
yup
PK, yes.
I also told him that I knew he was a sociopath and I explained that he was in an infantile regressed emotional state. My response to every word out of his mouth was to explain to him how predictable he was because of his disorder.
He would try one mask and then another and I would simply pull them off by explaining to him that it was a mask and why. They don’t like it when you are on to them.
Ok darwinsmom and skylar- thanks for the responses and advice. I have ordered the books suggested earlier. Will carry on reading to build up my strength.