It can be pretty tricky navigating the continuum of narcissistically disturbed individuals, attempting to separate the salvageables from the unsalvageables. Yet, there are two awfully basic, interrelated questions that can help you cut to the chase, and guide your decision to keep going, or cut bait.
Here they are:
1) Is your partner someone who genuinely recognizes he has a problem respecting you?
2) If he genuinely recognizes this, then does he have the genuine motivation to confront his disrespectful behaviors and attitudes (be they chronic or episodic; devastating in their impact or more quietly, gradually corrosive of your goodwill)?
Ultimately, it comes down to these separate, yet related, questions.
If the answer to either of them proves no, or probably not, then it’s boogie on out of the relationship time. If the answer to both questions proves yes, or probably yes (and it must be “yes!” to both questions!), then you have a basis to hope for improvement in the quality of the relationship.
But wait a second! I hear the shrieks! “How do you evaluate how genuine someone is, especially a manipulative personality?”
Well, the truth is, it’s difficult to assess how “genuine” someone is, on any level, no less a really good manipulator. But you must still make this assessment in an ongoing fashion, and you must make it without certainty of its accuracy.
Now, we always need to be clear about this: Sometimes, when you are dealing with a sociopath tremendously skilled at dissimulation (as a great many sociopaths are), it may be impossible to bust him before he’s had the chance to wreak terrible, longstanding and long-lasting levels of destruction. God knows this is too often the case. Of course, Donna Anderson in her upcoming book will arm her readers with incredible tools to do precisely this—bust these harder-to-bust sociopathic types.
But in many cases, more than one thinks, partners can be flushed-out for lacking true recognition of their disrespectful behaviors and the true motivation to modify them.
Of course I can’t stress sufficiently that it’s not enough to flush these individuals out: once flushed out, you need to be willing to overcome defenses like denial and pathological hope to heed the red flags you’ve identified. (I’m going to write about what I call pathological hope in my next article. I see it as a defense mechanism that can be almost as self-destructive as the sociopath can be destructive.)
So what are we really looking for here? What do we really need to see? Yes, we are looking for recognition, but most of all we are looking for change. Recognition without change is ultimately useless, a big tease.
And we are looking not for signs of small, itty bitty changes, but real, durable, meaningful, yes big changes. If the changes are too subtle, too slow in coming, too contingent on things like his “moods,” or the alignment of the stars, or if they’re subject to “relapses” of any sort (and especially rationalized relapses), then”¦bzzzzzz”¦.it’s time to send him back to the dugout, permanently, to sit his a** on the bench with his fellow underperformers.
Why do I emphasize big changes and downplay small, subtle changes?
Because we are talking about a big problem, and big problems, on which the quality, integrity and perhaps even safety of your life literally depend, demand big changes. The evidence of the commitment to these changes needs to be absolutely unmistakable; but again I repeat: the key thing is less the evidence of such recognition than the evidence of the changes!
Let me give a small, somewhat tangential but, at least, one specific example of what I’m saying. Let’s say you’ve been feeling disrespected by your partner and for you this is a very serious problem. You’ve been feeling variously misunderstood, blown off, violated, neglected, abused, mistrustful; feeling, let’s say, relegated to a hurtfully low priority in your partner’s world.
In a word, you aren’t feeling respected, and this has become, for you, a serious problem that you share with him. You request that he join you for couples counseling to address your, and perhaps his, concerns?
His answer is “no.”
Well, the answer, “No,” to your request for his participation in couples therapy, is a “You just struck out, pal” answer. That’s a damning, indictable answer. “No” is a virtual affirmation of what you’ve shared with him you’ve been experiencing—his disregard of you and the relationship.
“No” is an utterly lame answer, especially if you’ve requested his participation in couples counseling in a non-belligerent, sincere, and utterly serious fashion.
“No” is tantamount to declaring officially, “I am uninvested in this relationship.”
It may come in countless forms, among them:
“You’re unhappy, that’s your problem.”
“Go get help yourself.”
“I don’t need help. You’re the one with the complaints.”
“Nothing makes you happy. You are insatiable.”
“It’s pointless”¦seriously, get your own sh*t together first and then let’s talk.”
These, and countless similar responses, which blame you and exculpate him, while simultaneously affirming his perspective of the relationship not as a unity or partnership but more as a “sole proprietorship—¦these kinds of responses tell you all you need to know.
But now let’s say he says “yes,” and joins you in couples therapy. That’s nice. If he’s a sociopath, as I’ve written previously, you will hope the therapist will be shrewd enough to know that he, the therapist, is dealing with a sociopath. Because sociopaths do not belong in couples therapy. But for purposes of this argument, let’s imagine he’s not a full-blown sociopath.
In any case, as I’ve been suggesting, it is the evidence, ultimately, that will tell the tale.
He will either change meaningfully and permanently, and begin making these changes in earnest, very soon; or, he won’t.
He may or may not talk the talk effectively, persuasively. But if he doesn’t walk the walk and maintain the walk, you will have gotten your answer.
Walking the walk doesn’t mean it’s necessarily onesided; you too may have changes to make on your end. Nobody’s perfect, and even if you’re involved with a salvageable jerk (the best case scenario and hope), that doesn’t mean you too don’t have room to make some changes.
But let’s not kid ourselves, or let him kid us. If he isn’t motivated to leave you feeling more fulfilled, loved, respected and less neglected; if there isn’t evidence of his sincere desire to do this, and evidence of his willingness to work hard at doing this, and finally, evidence of his success at doing this, well then again”¦.we have our answers.
And let me repeat this point: the changes need to be sustained. Transitory changes made from desperation are more likely to revert as complacency creeps backs in. The regression, as complacency reenters the picture, will tell you something very important, namely that the changes weren’t made from a deep, or deeply honest enough, place.
The interesting thing, here, isn’t that any of this is a news flash or rocket science, because to the contrary I’m aware how almost insultingly obvious it is. The really key thing to beware of is the pervasiveness with which we’re inclined to put, or keep, the emotional blinders on in such a fashion that we either fail to proactively seek this evidence of a parnter’s commitment to change or else, seeking and discovering the partner’s lack of commitment, we find ways to minimize and ignore the urgency of the evidence’s meaning and message!
I will write about pathological hope as a defense mechanism next week.
(This article is copyrighted © 2011 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is for convenience’s sake and not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
Is there any point telling them they are psycho or SP? From the things I’ve read not many of them seek serious help. I have told him he is narcissistic and a bully. I have told him when he is disrespectful and abusive- he also has absolutely no idea of the hurt or devastation he has caused in my life.
Skylar
Your spath ending up with a helicopter.
Mine ends up with what ever he wants, sometimes the estates of lonely old people (my husbands family settled the area so they know everyone). But bad things happened. By “accident”. and I started to realize that “accidents” can be made to happen. Did he actually push his cousin so he fell 40 ft and broke his arm. No. but he created the conditions that made it likely. And he ENJOYED watching, tells the story over and over. LOTS and LOTS of drama and accidents.
Statiscally improbable that ANYBODY is that privy to witnessing so many accidents. Others? Handing carkeys to an emotional teenager who was threatening suicide. The boy died single car accident on a straight road in 55 degree weather, clear daytime skies, just two miles after departing from my husband.
My spath killed how many cows? I couldn’t accurately count them all. The exact same break in their back right leg, from running them and then driving the quad up on the leg. Yes, I think the first one was an accident, then he tested to do it again. He got so good at that “accident” that we were losing 3-5 a week (well, it’s not his fault they ran in front of him). My husband LOVED that hard, clean snap. When he did it, his whole body kinda jerked, like a victory exultation. He said he did it to teach those damn heifers to not make him mad.
Taking control away from my spath husband and moving to where he didn’t know where I was? PRICELESS. and Satisfying. and sweet to take charge of myself to boot. For once, I was “WINNING!”
Hehehe, Sky
Yup that works too! I managed to make my ex-spoth remove me from his fb friends by doing that: I wrote him, “I know you now, without a mask, and you are not just a conman of money bur heart too.” Then I left a message on his profile to warn all the women to take an STD test, and added “fake” as comment to any romantic pic of us he had, and removed all my love-you reminders on his profile of the past 2 years. That’s when he removed me from his friends. For me that gave me a feeling of victory: for once he did, what I had wanted him to do.
pk
You are living in misbelief.
TRUTH? He knows the hurt he causes. It just doesn’t matter to him.
Want proof? If someone you loved acted towards you like you have towards him, would you ignore them?
Pk – you made me smile with this: I also want revenge- what is the best way to hurt him or will he be resiliant?
…because 99% of us have felt or feel this way, and you have just been so straight forward about it.
the answer is two-fold – trying to hurt them demands so much time and energy it can kill you; and one needs to document document document all their transgressions (fraud theft,emotional and physical abuse, etc.), and bide ones time until the moment is right to do some damage to them through the police/ legal system, drop hints with family, etc.
you have to do this carefully – don’t go off half cocked or with a lot of emotion – the police and legal system don’t respond well (just the facts mam) to normality; and we end up looking like the messed up ones.
many people here have and do continue to take down their spaths in various ways. so, lots of help and advice here.
any use in telling him? no. it won’t hurt him in any way. don’t bother. (ps. i told my spath that the only person who would do what she did was a deathblogger or a spath. Guess which one she didn’t rant about on the blog the next day?)
and the other thing – he isn’t worth wasting your precious life energy on. I only get that now (really get it) 2 years post spath (not that i wouldn’t punch her if i ever saw her)…. I don’t want to waste my time on her. I have to deal with the damage she caused in me. She will always be a lying sack of crap, and she will always hurt people, on purpose and with glee. Maybe someday when i am stronger i will get involved with tracking her activities, again. I know that if we could ever get a class action suit together, I would testify.
PK, wow, if I didn’t know better I would think it was me posting under your name.
He sticks with his ex because the ex provides some sort of benefit. It’s all service related. The ex might help the spath look normal to society (“see, I’m married, I’m normal)….or, might provide free housing and or food…..
I too want to take down my spath. I told my spath over and over that he was a sociopath. It doesn’t matter. They don’t care and they can’t change.
What’s important to your spath?
His job?
His reputation in the community?
His reputation with extended family?
The money in the bank?
Just remember that you have empathy, and he does not.
You would likely feel regret, and it could consume you.
They always say the best revenge is to just ignore the SPATH.
By ignoring them, you’re denying them their humanity.
It is great revenge.
Whatever else you do, stay above the law, and make it a focus to recover and life a happy life.
That’s something they can not do.
I would like to hear more about your story.
superlicious ~! 🙂
Donna-thanks for pulling off the clown posts.
Thanks everyone for praying for me and sending positive vibes. My bike is essentially sold. The transaction is going down tomorrow after work. I also have a possible buyer on the guitar as well. I may just be able to pay my bills after all. I still hate the fact that my rent will be late but I can’t do anything about it. Thank God my landlord is supportive and fair. He didn’t even make me pay a deposit when I brought Remy home, since he knew I had lost my job again.
My N next door is back from out of town and I am going to gray rock and do as much NC as I can since we are neighbors. I am so glad I am over her and see her for what she is. I am going to practice as much NC as I told other people on here to do with their spaths. There will be no more favors, phone calls, texts, and no emails unless absolutely necessary. I am through giving her chances because SHE IS NOT SALVABEABLE and we cannot be friends or anything else. It was very nice to have her gone for 4 days.
I started the new job today and I am feeling very positive about it. I am excited. My gym membership fees will be taken out through payroll deduction and I can go anytime I want to start-all I have to do is go sign the papers. For the first time in a long time I think that things are falling together.
ElizabethBennett:
You made my day. Fabulous!!!!! Shalom