It can be pretty tricky navigating the continuum of narcissistically disturbed individuals, attempting to separate the salvageables from the unsalvageables. Yet, there are two awfully basic, interrelated questions that can help you cut to the chase, and guide your decision to keep going, or cut bait.
Here they are:
1) Is your partner someone who genuinely recognizes he has a problem respecting you?
2) If he genuinely recognizes this, then does he have the genuine motivation to confront his disrespectful behaviors and attitudes (be they chronic or episodic; devastating in their impact or more quietly, gradually corrosive of your goodwill)?
Ultimately, it comes down to these separate, yet related, questions.
If the answer to either of them proves no, or probably not, then it’s boogie on out of the relationship time. If the answer to both questions proves yes, or probably yes (and it must be “yes!” to both questions!), then you have a basis to hope for improvement in the quality of the relationship.
But wait a second! I hear the shrieks! “How do you evaluate how genuine someone is, especially a manipulative personality?”
Well, the truth is, it’s difficult to assess how “genuine” someone is, on any level, no less a really good manipulator. But you must still make this assessment in an ongoing fashion, and you must make it without certainty of its accuracy.
Now, we always need to be clear about this: Sometimes, when you are dealing with a sociopath tremendously skilled at dissimulation (as a great many sociopaths are), it may be impossible to bust him before he’s had the chance to wreak terrible, longstanding and long-lasting levels of destruction. God knows this is too often the case. Of course, Donna Anderson in her upcoming book will arm her readers with incredible tools to do precisely this—bust these harder-to-bust sociopathic types.
But in many cases, more than one thinks, partners can be flushed-out for lacking true recognition of their disrespectful behaviors and the true motivation to modify them.
Of course I can’t stress sufficiently that it’s not enough to flush these individuals out: once flushed out, you need to be willing to overcome defenses like denial and pathological hope to heed the red flags you’ve identified. (I’m going to write about what I call pathological hope in my next article. I see it as a defense mechanism that can be almost as self-destructive as the sociopath can be destructive.)
So what are we really looking for here? What do we really need to see? Yes, we are looking for recognition, but most of all we are looking for change. Recognition without change is ultimately useless, a big tease.
And we are looking not for signs of small, itty bitty changes, but real, durable, meaningful, yes big changes. If the changes are too subtle, too slow in coming, too contingent on things like his “moods,” or the alignment of the stars, or if they’re subject to “relapses” of any sort (and especially rationalized relapses), then”¦bzzzzzz”¦.it’s time to send him back to the dugout, permanently, to sit his a** on the bench with his fellow underperformers.
Why do I emphasize big changes and downplay small, subtle changes?
Because we are talking about a big problem, and big problems, on which the quality, integrity and perhaps even safety of your life literally depend, demand big changes. The evidence of the commitment to these changes needs to be absolutely unmistakable; but again I repeat: the key thing is less the evidence of such recognition than the evidence of the changes!
Let me give a small, somewhat tangential but, at least, one specific example of what I’m saying. Let’s say you’ve been feeling disrespected by your partner and for you this is a very serious problem. You’ve been feeling variously misunderstood, blown off, violated, neglected, abused, mistrustful; feeling, let’s say, relegated to a hurtfully low priority in your partner’s world.
In a word, you aren’t feeling respected, and this has become, for you, a serious problem that you share with him. You request that he join you for couples counseling to address your, and perhaps his, concerns?
His answer is “no.”
Well, the answer, “No,” to your request for his participation in couples therapy, is a “You just struck out, pal” answer. That’s a damning, indictable answer. “No” is a virtual affirmation of what you’ve shared with him you’ve been experiencing—his disregard of you and the relationship.
“No” is an utterly lame answer, especially if you’ve requested his participation in couples counseling in a non-belligerent, sincere, and utterly serious fashion.
“No” is tantamount to declaring officially, “I am uninvested in this relationship.”
It may come in countless forms, among them:
“You’re unhappy, that’s your problem.”
“Go get help yourself.”
“I don’t need help. You’re the one with the complaints.”
“Nothing makes you happy. You are insatiable.”
“It’s pointless”¦seriously, get your own sh*t together first and then let’s talk.”
These, and countless similar responses, which blame you and exculpate him, while simultaneously affirming his perspective of the relationship not as a unity or partnership but more as a “sole proprietorship—¦these kinds of responses tell you all you need to know.
But now let’s say he says “yes,” and joins you in couples therapy. That’s nice. If he’s a sociopath, as I’ve written previously, you will hope the therapist will be shrewd enough to know that he, the therapist, is dealing with a sociopath. Because sociopaths do not belong in couples therapy. But for purposes of this argument, let’s imagine he’s not a full-blown sociopath.
In any case, as I’ve been suggesting, it is the evidence, ultimately, that will tell the tale.
He will either change meaningfully and permanently, and begin making these changes in earnest, very soon; or, he won’t.
He may or may not talk the talk effectively, persuasively. But if he doesn’t walk the walk and maintain the walk, you will have gotten your answer.
Walking the walk doesn’t mean it’s necessarily onesided; you too may have changes to make on your end. Nobody’s perfect, and even if you’re involved with a salvageable jerk (the best case scenario and hope), that doesn’t mean you too don’t have room to make some changes.
But let’s not kid ourselves, or let him kid us. If he isn’t motivated to leave you feeling more fulfilled, loved, respected and less neglected; if there isn’t evidence of his sincere desire to do this, and evidence of his willingness to work hard at doing this, and finally, evidence of his success at doing this, well then again”¦.we have our answers.
And let me repeat this point: the changes need to be sustained. Transitory changes made from desperation are more likely to revert as complacency creeps backs in. The regression, as complacency reenters the picture, will tell you something very important, namely that the changes weren’t made from a deep, or deeply honest enough, place.
The interesting thing, here, isn’t that any of this is a news flash or rocket science, because to the contrary I’m aware how almost insultingly obvious it is. The really key thing to beware of is the pervasiveness with which we’re inclined to put, or keep, the emotional blinders on in such a fashion that we either fail to proactively seek this evidence of a parnter’s commitment to change or else, seeking and discovering the partner’s lack of commitment, we find ways to minimize and ignore the urgency of the evidence’s meaning and message!
I will write about pathological hope as a defense mechanism next week.
(This article is copyrighted © 2011 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is for convenience’s sake and not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the attitudes and behaviors discussed.)
HI everyone, still around reading your blogs, PK your story is just likw mine, I was engeged (cut the story short ) he moved on, but lied about me, he has a money tree down his drive way, but keeps coming back to me. I will give him nothing, as he only wants money for his gambling addiction. He is now trying to still get my attention. Just like you I still love him. I know its very very hard, when he is doing nothing but breaking your heart. I dont think I can come on here as much as I used to, I have been very ill, my pain has been very bad, its the third night without sleep, so I come on here but it huts to sit for to long. Any how girls and guys, be strong, cry if you must, but dont allow yourself to ever go through that terrable pain with him or her again. I know and so do alot of others on here. Gloria xxx
YAY! PK!
Glad to hear you are set on a course of action. I’ll tell you a little secret…it’s kinda fun doing gray rock. 🙂
Seriously, when I first learned of it, I was not sure it would work. So I did some tests. Gray rock, then drama, then gray rock again. It was fun watching his reactions. I had never felt in control before. For the first time in 25 years, I had some idea of why he did what he did and how I could manipulate HIM instead of the other way around. He actually gave me money!
Don’t go crazy with power, though. Remember your goal: make him slither away.
Love this post!
Hi everyone, by the way.
Guess what? I got a *gulp* boyfriend. Zie German kind.
Well, please don’t wave your fingers with the “no no no, too soon!” lecture just yet. We’re taking it slow. BUT it’s actually a whole different version of a WAKE UP call for me, cause dating a NORMAL man after 5+ years of CRAZY AS HELL is actually so refreshing that I’m baffled by it. How the HELL did I put up with that crap when there were men like THIS around?!?!? You know, SANE men. I’ve been seeing him for the past month. Yeah, still new, but I didn’t spill the beans on LF cause I wanted to make sure he passed the initial inspection first. So far, I cannot find a sociopathic bone in his body. Did I finally get my radar fixed? Fingers crossed.
On another note, this article reminds me of a crazy email I got from my ex in which he claimed to have CHANGED! I wanted to offer it up on the comments section so people can see an example of what is NOT genuine but may sound so desperately “salvageable” that the pathological hope will kick in. Here’s his lovely words, cut and paste, no alteration other than names:
Subject: Physical Evidence – Proof – Documents- Truth – Luc -Plan”
You opened me up. I came clean in front of everyone. I became what you always wanted me to become. I’m down on my knees asking you to marry me and you are throwing me outside.
For once in your life, stop this madness. Let go. Let go of suffering, pain, fear like I have! Let go of the past. Let go. I know you’ve turned men into this before. You always walked away. Don’t this time. This is real. I am real. I am here. I love you. I give you all of myself. I am the angel you wanted. You created me.. I don’t hold any grudges, no darkness in me. This pain has cleansed it. I am giving you the world.
Let go. Open your heart and trust us. Trust our love. Let go.
Marry me. Honor me by being my wife. Let go of both of our mistakes. Let’s do this. Let’s build a happy life together. I am ready. I show you everything. Everything!
No more mails. You got it. No more harrasment. You got it.
I love you. My offer stands. I want to marry you. I see everything clearly. I am changed into what you wanted. I am the devil’s whore.
I leave you alone. I love you. I will wait for you. I will not come to (my city). But I will wait for you.
And here is another:
Scroll down for the original message. I am in the database of her (Donna) and she will provide me with phone tapes. Check the date. I have been waiting a repsonse from her.
I am trying everything, Jane. I love ytou, I learned my lessons. I am you now. I understand everything. I will go to this woman, I am not a scoiopath and she’lkl prove it. I’ll tell her everything. I made so many misatakes. Please one lazst chance. We don’t have to talk, just give me HOPE. Please, I am suffering, I feel so suicidal, you mean EVERYTHING to me. I will have documentation, plans, funds, I will go to university with you. I want to live with you, I told you all these in the last week, I am CHANGED. I am giving you who I am, not a facade anymore. I will talk to Katie, too. I
am still in denial, I don’t know how to accept losing you. I love you and I know you love me but my mistakes, my past, it’s not who I am. I swear, I will do anything you tell me to do, anything. Please, believe this, let me PROVE it, let me PROVE it in physcial evidence and any other form you ask. I am done playing, I just want love from now on. Let me prove it and if you ever find it in your heart, please be my wife. I will send my land, I will graduate this year, and I will come to wherever you want so you can always know I’m fully honest about everything. Please, give one last chance. Please. Anything if you see that I can do for us, please tell me. I will do anything for you. Anything. You are my soulmate, let me deserve you, please I’m so sorry about everything. I will do anything. Anything for you.
my passwords —
mail.address@live = ****
mail.address@yahoo = ****
mail.address@gmail = ****
johnlovesjane = ****
onlyananswer = ****
I wrote buncha momentary stuff in them and I am not deleting any of them! No secrets, nothinbg.
please, give me one chance. Find it in your heart. I will prove it. I will do it. Just give me hope if I ever manage to prove what I am and what I intend to you, you will love me again.
TRADED EVERYTHÄ°NG FOR LOVE
I will get love conquers all tattooed as a sign of commitment. And your name if you give me this chance.
—–
So, ladies and gentlemen, that is what INGENUITY looks like 😉
*Barf*
If your mate sounds anything like this, then he/she is probably FULL OF SHIT!
🙂
A couple of comments- first to Steve and then to Confused and PK….
Steve- This is rather strong and I do not intend to offend but I am rather disturbed that YOU would post such an article. Posting an article on salvaging a relationship with anyone who is Cluster B disordered does a tremendous disservice – it fans the flames of Pathological Hope. That type of hope/longing is so very hard to extinguish that no matter what you write in your next article – the damage caused by offering hurt and wounded victims of N/S.P’s any hope to save these relationships is in my opinion a really horrid thing for you to do.
I know from firsthand experience that it was the hope offered to me on another forum that helped me to keep my eyes firmly closed to the truth of what was in front of me for 3 years – I thought like them was going to be one of the special ones. Funny thing is – the three people who – against the advice of dozens of others, on this other forum – these 3 over the course of 3 years time held out hope to me. Within 18 months of me finally breaking free of the Psychopath I thought I loved, (but found out I was suffering trauma bonding or Stockholm Syndrome) these people who had been in these unhealthy relationships for far longer – they finally faced the truth and ended their relationships as well – and sometimes it was not their choice!
PK & Confused – Not only are the book recommendations excellent there is an online article that will explain some of what goes on – it is about the psychology of the intense relationship – and how you bond – you probably have heard the term “Stockholm Syndrome” – that is what this article is about:
http://www.mental-health-matters.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=167
I also think those here having trouble going to NO CONTACT should check out this blog: http://www.gettingpastyourbreakup.com/gettingpastyourpast/
Finally – I just sent this to a friend’s daughter, she is pregnant and dealing with a yo yo sperm donor. Hopefully she is done with him. Since I have no idea if the young man is a sociopath it is not written to address that – but what I hope you and anyone struggling gets is the meta message – if you allow the space in your life to be filled with people who are not good enough – that is what you will get – not good enough. Reserve the space for only good and while it may take some time and you will be tested by those posing as good – or better than the bad you ave experienced – the minute they show themselves as not good enough – even if they are better than bad – get them out of your life. Reserve the space in your life for close friends and loved ones only for those qualified to have those seats!
Here is my message:
The dream is not wrong sweetheart – you just have it attached to maybe not the right person… Let go of who it is supposed to be and hang on to what you would like it to be. Look for someone who treats you the right way – puts your needs and well being highest on their priority list. A man that is willing to adjust themselves to what is best for you and the baby. Because moving forward – a beautiful woman with a beautiful baby – you will meet many men who may want to date you but will not necessarily understand your commitment to your son and they will be resentful when it interferes with their own interests. A man who really loves you will not necessarily understand it either – BUT I promise you they will support you in doing what is right for you and that child. I know this from personal experience. DO NOT ACCEPT LESS. If you do better will pass you by. Leave the space open for only the best and reject the rest. It sounds so hard to do but it is the only way I know of to have the type of relationship you want. A man who will truly respect you will not find it appealing if you do not expect to receive respect from others, and tolerating bad behavior is the surest way to get more bad behavior in your life. Love yourself enough to let go of boys who still need to mature – you need a grownup now, not someone working on it.
Dear Panther… I mean GOD, the almighty creator.
Please tell me how to make an angel, since you know.
and for once in your life, since you have done this kind of thing to lots of men and walked away from them, the angels, please throw your leftovers my way.
There is ONE sentence of truth that stands out, it’s when he states “I am the devil’s whore”.
ummm…. borderline. AND spath.
Yep. Sure sounds like a keeper to me. 🙂
Panther,
HAHAHAHA!
It sounds like “the campfire of my love”.
It’s all about HIM. And my spath actually wrote me a song, “I give you my world” just like yours said, “I’m giving you the world”. Who says that? A spath. Can we call it a red flag?
He did get one part right: “I’m the devil’s whore.”
Please respond by telling him that you will marry him if he get’s “devil’s whore” tattooed on his forehead and “cum bucket” on his ass. It’s only fair that he own the names he called you.
Edit:
Nice post Breckgirl.
Skylar – you are right – the experimenting to see how they respond to Gray Rock versus your normal reactions to them is a fantastic and empowering experience but you only need do it one time to know – and when you know then the answer is clear.
: )
PS – Thank you SK
AHAHAHHA KatyDid, you are hilarious. How to make an angel? I don’t have a clue, but apparently I made one! Then mean ole me, I left the angel out in the cold! Yeah, ain’t he a charmer? But if he could get points for EVIL effort, I think he’d take the cake!!! Ehehehe.
Sky: Yes, there is a WAY they talk that is somewhere between AWKWARD AS ALL HELL, HILARIOUS, and BONE-CHILLING. Like “campfire of my love” what the HELL was that shit? I wish a chorus could have started cracking up in the background the moment such a line entered his brain so he’d know better than to let the thought out on paper! I love how he also insisted that Donna was gonna provide him with phone tapes proving he’s not a sociopath and that he was in her database. Yeah, and I bet he’s in touch with a scientist who will provide him with DNA analysis to prove that there aren’t any robots in his bloodstream. Thanks, spath, but we’re waaaaaay past that now 🙂
By the way, their words are sooooo much funnier in hindsight!
Panther,
Glad to hear you met someone new over there in Germany. I hope it all works out for you. (So your name is “Jane,” is it? – very nice!)
Nevertheless, how is it that “The Devils’ Ho” is still managing to stay in touch with you? I think someone needs to tighten up a bit with the No Contact! For that matter, I would seriously consider changing everything that he might have access to, such as your phone number, e-mail, and so forth. At this point, he really should have no way whatsoever to contact you.
It’s funny to read his chaotic letters, but I think you would be better off with an absolute break (for all time!) in communication. Even these sporadic interactions (one sided though they may be) can’t be healthy.
Still, his incoherent ramblings would make an excellent libretto for an old style Germanic opera! I can almost picture him with the viking hat and the elaborate stage setting, singing about what a sublime and slightly damaged archangel he is; and imploring you to let go of suffering! Let go of pain! I only strangle the people I love! Come back to the devil’s whore! (All while kneeling, thunder booming, and arms plaintively outstreched to the heavens!)
Hmmmm. Needs some more work, but I think it definitely has potential!