Last night Larry King Live of CNN hosted a discussion about whether criminals can be rehabilitated. I think it will be re-aired this weekend so try to watch. One of the guests drew a distinction between “learned” criminal behavior and psychopathy. She stated she believed that criminals who have learned to be that way can unlearn but psychopaths cannot be rehabilitated. I know many of you also hold this belief so I would like to tell you why I strongly disagree.
First I will tell you my position:
ALL criminality stems from an interaction between a person and a situation. A person is a product of his/her genetics and experiences. So in a sense what makes up personality (the “person”) is learned for everyone including the psychopathic. We are preprogrammed by our genetics to learn certain things better than others.
In terms of situational variables solid research has demonstrated that antisocial associates, poor work and educational performance, substance abuse, poor family ties and poor recreational achievement are all associated with criminality. These variables operate independently from personality variables and are important for even the most psychopathic individuals.
The more psychopathic a person is, the more deeply ingrained is the lifestyle of parasitism and predation BUT even those with lower levels of psychopathy can be very resistant to change and very dangerous to society. The definition of response to treatment depends on what you are looking for. If a person cheats 8 people a week, then goes into a program and cheats 1 person a week, that is a change. Everyone has a different definition of “rehabilitation”.
Coincidentally, I just read a great book, Persons in Context: Building a science of the individual. It is a tribute to Walter Mischel, Ph.D. one of the great thinkers of modern psychology. In his chapter “Intelligence as a Person-Situation Interaction”, Robert Sternberg lists five fallacies of thinking. He says, “There is another dimension to person-situation interaction: the extent to which particular situations elicit ‘stupid’ thinking in intelligent people.” All of his 5 fallacies occur in the context of perceived power or dominance. They are:
- The unrealistic optimism fallacy. This occurs when one believes that one is so smart and so powerful that it is pointless to worry about the outcome of what one does.
- The egocentrism fallacy. This occurs when one comes to think that one’s own interests are the only ones that are important.
- The Omniscience Fallacy. This occurs when people think they know more than they do.
- The Omnipotence Fallacy. This results from the power one wield or believes one wields.
- The invulnerability Fallacy. This derives for the illusion of complete protection.
Dr. Sternberg is one of many scientists who have discovered that the experience of power changes the mind/brain. Some people are more prone than others to these effects of power. Since psychopathic individuals seek out power constantly like a heroin addict seeking a fix, they are never free from all of the above fallacies of thinking. Life is a situation of constant power or perceived power.
In the absence of a loving nature all power pursuit becomes antisocial. Now power pursuit and attainment can also stomp out a person’s loving nature, if it was ever present in the first place.
To rehab the psychopathic we have to strip them of any power and teach them to love and care for others. To my knowledge there is no program that has yet succeeded in doing this even for those “sociopaths” who score at the lower end of the psychopathy scale.
Dear Witty, Looks like we posted over each other while I was replying to BloggerT.
I’ve missed you and hope are doing well. I’m glad that your son is out of the house still, I know that will give you some room to heal. It is almost impossible I think to heal while we are associating with them and that NO CONTACT gives us room to think. Takes our mind off of THEM and turns it inward TOWARD OURSELVES where we can commune with the spirit within. That spirit of ourselves that we could not hear when the psychopaths were shouting above our heads and drowning out the small quite voices of our souls.
I wish you well and I know it takes so long to heal, but the first steps, being away from the chaos are the hardest. ((((Hugs))) Love Oxy
Sarah H,
You might want to read this https://webfiles.uci.edu/skeem/Downloads_files/IAFMHS_2008.pdf
And you can contact her at skeem@uci.edu she might be able to point you in the right direction
Oxy, Hens,One_step–I am awake now. I have been sleeping on and off. I do really notice the increased sleepiness, in addition to the confusion and inability to concentrate.
Hens-that is crazy about your ex’s birthday. That might have been a red flag.
I have a friend who was supposed to call and check in on me but I haven’t heard from her yet. She may be distracted cuz she got a call from the police chief while we were on the phone–she is up for a new commander position.
I feel a little sad about the ex narcissist’s birthday.
Erin: OUCH!
Take it easy girl…..i’m sorry your on the injured list for the weekend. Don’t worry about the house….it’ll still be there dust and all….next week!
Feel better…..and take GOOD care! 🙂
xxoo
EB
Sarahhan:
Hope is a beautiful thing!
For your sake……and the folks you are to come into contact with in life…..assuming your diagnosis is correct…..I certainly hope you can turn it around!
The above advice on contacting Dr. Leedom/Hare is what I’d offer aswell.
Oxy:
Jr got his car! No license…..but a car!
Actually, I think he got a pretty good deal…..safe at least.
We went cruising all day……down the mountain, to the DMV, the car wash etc…..I JUST GOT HOME!!!!!!
We sat and laaughed histarically, people watching at the dmv….waiting for our number….2 hours later…..
Almost better than Wallmart!
Highly recommend sitting outside the DMV on the lawn…..for those of you who have NOTHING better to do……and check out all the peeps who come and go! 🙂
At 10:30 tonight……we left the car wash…..and the car wouldn’t start…..the ignition thing is broken so the key won’t work……so a he uses a SCREWDRIVER!!! Um…..no comment!
So…..a wire came loose….and clean and shiney car wouldn’t start…….we had to laugh……..he took off his underwear and rigged the ignition thing that was dangeling….so the wires wouldn’t fall again….to get us home…..it was SO VERY FUNNY! And creative! Underwear……..who’dathunk!
He was monitoring my reaction…..and I just smiled. 🙂 That’s my boy!!!!
It’s a volvo car with all the airbags and actually really nice on the outside……the previous owners dog and a bear attacked the inside….but nothing seatcovers can’t hide. IT also has seatwarmers…..which I love! Cute little car for $925.
We reminicsed about the cars i owned…..he wanted toknow all about my first car…..a VW bug.
I realized….that was the only car HE hadn’t driven in that I’ve owned in my life. My first car. My second car was the one I still owned when he was born and he remembers it….also who bought it from me. Funny.
Cars, cars, cars.
So…..the craigslist…..potential nigerian scam has come to an end! Let’s hope!
The rest of the money is in the bank and I made him give me $500.00 for the deductable…..to put away.
He’s been very easy to get along with this past few weeks. We’ve had a lot of fun out on the lake…..(Until the younger Jr lost the jetski key) and they have all been helpful to me.
So mammas got no complaints.
It’s been a good week! A huge relief to not be thinking about all my connections with the spath. (Getting my tax’s done) This made all the difference in the world for my emotional ‘place’.
Nice to share these times with my kids…..and know spaths not around to put a damper on it all……Nice to make memories with them……and watch them grow. Nice to play with them and enjoy the laughter. Nice to be their mother!
Nice to start diffusing!!!!!
witsend,
why?
I just don’t understand it well enough. where is the line that delineates us from them? I have enough narcissistic qualities to make me wonder why I’m not evil. why do I have compassion? why will I sacrifice myself for others? but these creatures will kill for an imagined narcissistic injury?
When I was a teenager, I was much more selfish, even filled with hate, what changed?
about 8 years ago I was out with my narcissistic little sis and her trojan horse cop husband. a man was beating his wife on the street. I looked at my brother in law cop and said, “aren’t you going to do anything?” “none of my business, I’m off duty.” he replied. “Well, you have a gun and I don’t, but if you don’t stop him, I will.” I said. I steeled my 5’5″ 110 lb frame, locked my car and began to walk toward the husky italian man who was screaming obcenities at his little blond wife. At that point my b-i-l, said, “OK, I’ll do it.” He realized I had made him look bad infront of his wife (my 5’10” 140lb sister, they both carry concealed weapons). As he walked towards the violent man, he was calling the precinct with “officer under fire”. Every cop in the city showed up. I’e never seen so many cops. My BIL got a medal for “going beyond the call of duty”. LOL. He now works for homeland security.
My BIL is the former meth addict that my exP talked into “raping” me in 1991. Simultaneously, the exP talked me into pretending I was on a date-rape drug, so that the meth freak would rape me. He used the pity ploy: if you don’t do this you don’t love me, my dick is small, etc….
Sorry, I got off the subject. I know I’m not normal, but I just need to understand. Joe is being really nice now, not sure why. He wanted to break up, said he tried to love me but couldn’t ( how can you love someone you lie to?). I told him fine, but we have a business relationship/commitment. He is schizoid, I offered to give him space. Now he is sweeter and nicer than ever. Doesn’t want me to leave…
there’s more to it. He’s not normal but guess what? Neither am I! My bills are getting paid and he’s on time now with my paycheck.
all so strange, I wish I had someone to talk to about the details, I feel like I already posted too much. I wish I could talk to a professional about it. eventually I will write a book. but I need more info.
I wonder if “small dick” is another thing to add to the list of warning signs. My x-spath certainly had one. I wonder if that is why he is into boys…
yes!!! small dick was a feature of the P over here too!!
Skylar I hope you write a book. It’s a subject who’s time has come. I would welcome more of your posts, because what could be more relevant for LF than your observations and findings….keep talking!x
Spaths come in All sizes..