Last night Larry King Live of CNN hosted a discussion about whether criminals can be rehabilitated. I think it will be re-aired this weekend so try to watch. One of the guests drew a distinction between “learned” criminal behavior and psychopathy. She stated she believed that criminals who have learned to be that way can unlearn but psychopaths cannot be rehabilitated. I know many of you also hold this belief so I would like to tell you why I strongly disagree.
First I will tell you my position:
ALL criminality stems from an interaction between a person and a situation. A person is a product of his/her genetics and experiences. So in a sense what makes up personality (the “person”) is learned for everyone including the psychopathic. We are preprogrammed by our genetics to learn certain things better than others.
In terms of situational variables solid research has demonstrated that antisocial associates, poor work and educational performance, substance abuse, poor family ties and poor recreational achievement are all associated with criminality. These variables operate independently from personality variables and are important for even the most psychopathic individuals.
The more psychopathic a person is, the more deeply ingrained is the lifestyle of parasitism and predation BUT even those with lower levels of psychopathy can be very resistant to change and very dangerous to society. The definition of response to treatment depends on what you are looking for. If a person cheats 8 people a week, then goes into a program and cheats 1 person a week, that is a change. Everyone has a different definition of “rehabilitation”.
Coincidentally, I just read a great book, Persons in Context: Building a science of the individual. It is a tribute to Walter Mischel, Ph.D. one of the great thinkers of modern psychology. In his chapter “Intelligence as a Person-Situation Interaction”, Robert Sternberg lists five fallacies of thinking. He says, “There is another dimension to person-situation interaction: the extent to which particular situations elicit ‘stupid’ thinking in intelligent people.” All of his 5 fallacies occur in the context of perceived power or dominance. They are:
- The unrealistic optimism fallacy. This occurs when one believes that one is so smart and so powerful that it is pointless to worry about the outcome of what one does.
- The egocentrism fallacy. This occurs when one comes to think that one’s own interests are the only ones that are important.
- The Omniscience Fallacy. This occurs when people think they know more than they do.
- The Omnipotence Fallacy. This results from the power one wield or believes one wields.
- The invulnerability Fallacy. This derives for the illusion of complete protection.
Dr. Sternberg is one of many scientists who have discovered that the experience of power changes the mind/brain. Some people are more prone than others to these effects of power. Since psychopathic individuals seek out power constantly like a heroin addict seeking a fix, they are never free from all of the above fallacies of thinking. Life is a situation of constant power or perceived power.
In the absence of a loving nature all power pursuit becomes antisocial. Now power pursuit and attainment can also stomp out a person’s loving nature, if it was ever present in the first place.
To rehab the psychopathic we have to strip them of any power and teach them to love and care for others. To my knowledge there is no program that has yet succeeded in doing this even for those “sociopaths” who score at the lower end of the psychopathy scale.
One Step,
If I remember correctly you celebrated “THE” B-day this year (the big 50) So cut yourself some slack…..Our generation was the generation of “multi tasking” we have done this all of our lives. Without even giving it a second thought. I think it takes its toll after awile. I have CRS bad, and so do all of my friends that are my age…
NONE of us are the women we used to be. And at least some part of that is also an “age” thing. We are slowing down, like it or not.
As for those of us whom have gone through the stress and misfortune of having our lives turned inside out by our experience that brought us to LF to begin with….Well it goes without saying that to experience those high levels of stress & anxiety…..It’s going to take some time to be able to function the way we used to.
Add to that not being in healthy living conditions and having health issues……
You are really being to hard on yourself. You have been through alot.
We push ourselves hard and have high expectations of ourselves.
Do what you can do. And let some of the rest go.
There is only so many hours of the day that i can be “productive” anymore….I’m learning to accept that. Its not easy, but I feel somewhat better since I have come to accept this.
I am doing ok. Its been 7 months since my son moved out. I am learning to accept alot of things. S-L-O-W-L-Y. But better slow than not at all!
Witty….
You sound like your moving to a good place.
I hope your journey continues to be positive.
Hens….I’m sorry if I offended you, I will wathcit.
I’m glad your pups is on the mend.
The lonely part creeps in at times……and I do think we must couteract that by staying busy and doing ‘good’. It will be good for you to have your partner in crime lady from Ohio move near you. It helps me when my gf’s stop by for coffe and a chat……breaks the day up and makes me feel a connection outside of myslef and my own ‘woes’.
Just keep on keeping on and stay busy and keep your mind occupied……and try to do nice things for yourself everyday!!!
I guess everyone knows what I’m going to write on this post.
People need to learn how to go humble prior to reading Jesus’ scriptures.
To go humble means to clear your mind of what you think you know (which is worldly knowledge, not spiritual knowledge) about the world, how smart you are or think you are (again, worldly knowledge). Know the truth that Jesus made everything and taught us what we need to know pertaining to His spiritual teachings. Jesus died on the cross (wrongful death) for ALL of us … so that we could be free from Sin (death … which is Satan) … which basically means, stop being a coward and taking the easy way out in life (stop following Satan), get a backbone and follow Jesus (meaning pick up the Bible and learn Jesus’ Truth/wisdom for yourself … and STOP listening to false preachers teaching man’s way of life and throwing in a scripture here and a scripture there. Those that teach Jesus’ truth should be doing it scripture by scripture, book by book. Not wasting our time entertaining us with man made logic of the world. It’s because man (meaning all humans) are living carnal lives, not learning spiritual teachings.
Bring back the teachings of Jesus’ truth into the school system because it’s obvious parents who do Not believe in Jesus will never bring their children to learn His truth. Not learning His truth leads to all the evils in the world.
A great preacher who teaches Jesus truth … book by book, scripture by scripture can be found at sheperdschapel.com
Click on the link and go listen to His truth for yourself.
Should Sheperd’s Chapel preachers be watched in every prison institution throughout the Globe 24/7? I would say that is a positive YES. How else would anyone/everyone learn wisdom if wisdom isn’t taught?
Do I think a psychopath or sociopath can be redeemed. NO! Jesus said to send them back to him. What part of that truth don’t these courts comprehend?
I just saw on Larry King Live how those 2 murderers were released back into society. They were 11 and 12 when they beat their father to death with a baseball bat. A baseball bat! Does anyone realize that this is hands on when killing a person? This wasn’t killing their father with a gun, or poisoning their dad. This was hand on hand combat to take the life of their dad.
They should both have gotten the death penalty. They will never change because society shows them love. How many of us loved our Spaths? What was the end result of that?
ErinBrock,
How are you? I had read awile back some post that you had written about Jr. Did he graduate? How is he doing? Is he living at home? And your life…..What is going on with you?
My journey will always involve some deep sadness, I would imagine. I don’t see myself ever getting beyond feeling that pain.
In my life experience I have had many losses. So I understand the process of letting go. Greiving. There comes a time in the grieving process when you can reflect back and celebrate your loved ones life and the times you shared with them. And then it isn’t so much about the “loss” anymore but embracing what you had, when they were a part of your life.
And there are so many kinds of losses we can face in our lifetime. Death, divorce, friendships that disolve as time passes.
But somehow this is different. This is an unnatural process.
I find that keeping busy and having a focus (work) helps a bit. Not being consumed and thinking about it day and night, helps a bit.
My thinking has always been, that if life deals you lemons…Make lemonaid. This to shall pass….
But that kind of thinking isn’t working for me now. So I am learning a new way to cope.
Dear Witty,
You know, I thought I never would get over the sadness, the “oh, what COULD have been…” part, but I think eventually it sort of creeps us on us without us noticing it and we look up one day and the sadness is gone…sort of like drying towels, it just evaporates slowly and one day you realize the towel went from “wet” to “dry” but you can’t say just when it changed from one to the other. If that makes any sense.
I can think about the past without FEELING that pain, that loss that sadness….and there isn’t the grieving for the what “could” have been.
Sometimes I have a “WHAT NOW?” feeling..because it sort of takes away the plans for the future that you had, so you have to shift your thinking and find some new ones. Some of your most cherished plans have changed.
For me the changes have been profound, starting with the death of my husband, the death of my dad, closing the business, retiring, recovering…..lots of changes, lots of losses, but also different focus…sometimes I still wonder what I “want to be when I grow up” LOL
Hi Witty;
No……he didn’t graduate! SHOCK! NOT.
And he’s continuing to talk big with no actions…..
He told everyone he was graduating in Aug…….no movement in that direction thoguh.
I told him he needed to move on with his life.
He got his inheritance and is bulldozing on the car front……against my wishes…..so he’s doing it on his own.
He’s careful not to ask me for anything…..
Although he did go out and mow the yard last week….I was SHOCKED…..never asked him. I don’t bother anymore.
It’s just too frustrating.
He told me he was joining the national guard…..YET..he needs a diploma AND to lose 20lbs.
At 18, there is no reason to be overweight….yet he is……His weight is another consequence of his lazyness…..he won’t walk, he won’t bother to make real food……he’s all about the conveniences of life….the bus, friends cars……
He’s evolved into a sloth.
he moves slooooow.
For now, he’s here…..but the sleeping until 2pm and staying up all night, not working and yadayada AIN”T flying with me!
He’s pissing away his inheritence pretty quickly……I think he thoguht he hit the lottery. NOT! Only 6K.
So……really nothings changed with him…….
I’m just plodding along…..trying to modify my home and keep it out of foreclosure……got the senators office involved in this process……it’s a pathetic process i’ll tell ya…..it’s like dealing with a corportate spath.
Claims of lost paperwork, never received….big business lies….and who loses….US!
I am looking forward to life becoming ‘normal’……whatever that means.
My business is REAL slow this summer…..and i just cna’t worry about it……
There is a plan…..and however/wherever I land up……I’m sure i’ll be happy.
I’m doing all I can to keep afloat and move in a good direction.
With a child……it’s harder to ‘letgo’ completely……Spath…..was a cakewalk compared to Jr.
We so want the best for them…..yet we have no control over it.
What keeps resonating with me is what my therapist told me……after seeing him for sometime……
He said….EB….with this kid…..your gonna have to let life be his teacher.
It’s difficult…….but i’m finding TRUE!
My friends and support watch him and talk to him, try to encourage and help him…..all well meaning……but all words fall on deaf ears……he cooperates with the conversation, feeds them his hopes and dreams, bamboozles them, and they are boggled by his lack of action/vs words.
Yep….tha’ts JR.
I also believe life carry’s with it deep sadness. there is so much we can’t change or control……but I guess the key is, learning to cope and find peace within.
It’s moment by moment and any change in wind can blow us over.
We must keep steady.
Your in my thoughts witty…….please know that!!!
XXOO
EB
Wow! Thanks for all the great ideas.
How to strip a psychopath/sociopath of power?
I was more thinking of how we do just the opposite. We give them all the power. If we are afraid of them they have power.
We need to gang up on them and tell them the mask is off and we do not believe a single word they say.
When they go to prison they get a lot of power because they are amongst their kind. They are even able to manipulate the jailers who let some stuff go because they are afraid of a riot. They get guards to smuggle for them.
To strip them of power, prison life would have to be completely restructured so that prisoners could not form alliances at all. Some people naively think these alliances are friendships and that sociopaths are looking for love, they are not. They are looking for power and so will turn on their “friends” when they need to. So why should they be allowed to have these “friends”?
No one is willing to do the hard work that is necessary to help them change. You have to strip them of any social contact that allows them to gratify power motives.
“To rehab the psychopathic we have to strip them of any power and teach them to love and care for others. To my knowledge there is no program that has yet succeeded in doing this even for those “sociopaths” who score at the lower end of the psychopathy scale”
Yes, but I think even before that…….the Sociopath must be a willing participant in their own recovery…..
They must recognize they need help and want the help.
By design…..sociopaths don’t see they have a problem. …… It’s US!
From what I have witnessed with the spaths (business AND personal) i was involved in, it’s about Networking, (not friendships)…..networking is power…..it provides them a constant supply of new dupes….appearing as ‘friendships’.
ErinBrock,
I have seen this process Erin…..Boys in general mature slower than girls do. LIFE can BE the best teacher once a boy reaches a certain age.
I think our role as mothers, ESPECIALLY with boys, is to give them the all the basics, and hopefully good morals, and then let them go….. Let them go out there into the real world and (hopefully) become the men that they were meant to be.
At some point they reach an age where we can’t necessarily teach them anymore than we already have. And if they stay to long in our homes, we almost become their enabelers, rather than the “parent”. There is no magic age when a child is ready to leave home and learn the real lessons the world has to offer. It might be 18, it might be later in their young to mid 20’s. Some kids go away to college, some don’t…
But the natural course of things is at some point to let them go. You can’t teach them “real” independence, if they don’t fly the nest and learn to live independently.
I think as a parent you can sense when it is time for them to go…..I know I did with my oldest. He was maybe about 23 or so…He was a good kid, had a job, paying his own bills, (car payment, insurance, phone ect) contributing a small rent…
But he needed to fly the coop. He needed some lessons in maturity that he couldn’t learn living at home.
He was my first born and it wasn’t easy to give him that gentle push out the door, but I felt it in his best interest to do so.
At the time I thought it to be one of the hardest decisions I had ever made. But it turned out to be one of my better decisions. He did “grow” into the man that he was meant to be. I am not sure that the results would have been the same if he continued to live here.
Maybe the National Guard would be the best thing for Jr. But of course as you say, he has to do what he has to do, to make it happen.
But right now I would suppose that the money he has seems to him like it will last forever. Little does he know that when it is gone it is gone for good.
If you see him learning some (maybe not all) but some lessons along the way….That is a good thing. Its all about progress not perfection at this stage. If you see that he isn’t learning anything along the way….That is when you can reevaluate the situation.
xxxx
Dr. Leedom says: “No one is willing to do the hard work that is necessary to help them change. ”
With all due respect! You’re darn tootin!!! I’m trying to still trying to do the hard work of digging deep to try to uncover why I allowed the spaths to wreck havoc in my life. If any effort should be expended, it should be to help the victims and survivors of spaths.
Also said: “We need to gang up on them and tell them the mask is off and we do not believe a single word they say.” This would require a highly unlikely and strong comrarderie between all or most of the parties involved in the life of a sociopath. Personal, professional and in general, society. When one link of the chain is broken to fight the spath, then that broken link becomes a link of power for the spaths. Just one believer in their lies can provide them with sufficient power to overcome what they perceive to be obstacles.
There’s a saying: An organized lie, is more powerful than disorganized truth!!