UPDATED FOR 2021. Editor’s Note: This letter to Lovefraud was submitted by the Lovefraud reader who goes by the name “Shanmoo.” This article was originally published in 2014, but the message is timeless. Shanmoo wanted to know if the guy she dated is a jerk or a sociopath. Donna Andersen’s comments follow the letter.
I can’t believe I’ve had to come back here after five years. I had a spath boyfriend in 2008-2009, and spent many a night on this site. However, I did move forward, and I believed I had dealt with all the issues, karma and justice happened and in fact I met a decent guy. Unfortunately we went our separate ways because of my illness, at that time.
My relationship with co-worker “A”
And that brings me to this guy, we’ll call “A”. We are broken up now, and he is basically being an absolute jerk, I work with him, and I need your help to deal with him. I’m having to find another job and it’s just not right.
Two and one half years ago I had to move back to my home country after a life abroad, due to illness. I have fibromyalgia. I took a job here in the UK, well below my qualifications. It was better than fighting the disability benefits system. About 16 months ago I met my now ex — “A” — in my workplace. I used to walk past him, and I remember him just staring at me; watching me as I went past, almost obsessively. He is quite attractive.
Anyway, I used to see him in the work kitchen and one day I figured, just talk to him. So I did. Well that was that. He used to watch me from his desk. He could see to the kitchen, and every time I went in there, he would turn up, and talk to me. This went on for weeks. I wondered, when is he going to ask me out? Then I got collared by his friend’s wife, who also works in there, and she said he had been talking about me and if he asked me out, would I say yes, well of course. She told me that in all the years they had known him, he had never gone out with, or been bothered about any woman. She assured me he would treat me well. Anyway I engineered things a bit. I asked him along to a mutual night out with friends. That night he asked me to go out the next night and I said yes and that was that.
We started seeing each other, and honestly, it was really good, although he wasn’t your average man. He was a bit useless. A very long term bachelor, and didn’t really have any home skills. I was decorating my flat at the time and I was shocked that he had never held a paint brush in his life. I had to teach a 41 year old man how to paint. He also didn’t drive, which I found a bit odd.
He used to message me and be with me loads though. I can’t complain. However after about five or six weeks he landed a bombshell. He sat me down and told me the relationship wasn’t working for him. I didn’t understand this as we had been getting on great especially in the bedroom but he told me he felt that we were just friends. It brought me to tears. I was really upset. He apologized and said he didn’t want to upset me and asked me to forget it. He said he had just misunderstood stuff. Women had previously treated him like second best…. etc.
Anyway we just plodded on and really things were good.
An invitation to move in
Four months into the relationship and he was asking me to move in with him in a new place, and have his baby…. which I thought was a bit soon to be honest. However I am 45 years old.
The one main thing however that bugged me was the driving license. Now admittedly I wasn’t in a great place as in March this year my fibromyalgia flared up and it was really bad, I was in so much pain and I started to feel resentful. He had promised me that he would learn to drive, and in April, he told me that he had never wanted to learn to drive and just said it to avoid an argument.
So I took him out at the car park in work, and told him to basically f*** off and be single, for lying to me. I didn’t really want to break up with him; it was a cry for help. I couldn’t manage everything. However, he just walked away. I tried to work things out with him two days later and he told me that he had wanted to break up with me months ago? He said I had been so negative for months and he is a laid back positive person.
I found that a bit of a joke; as most nights when he had been at my house I had been listening to him complain about various people at work incessantly, also just before going to sleep!
The breakup
To cut a long story short, the last five months have been absolute hell. He has treated me like complete rubbish since our breakup.
Initially after the breakup I tried to get things working again. I went to see him, accepted my part, that I had been wrong to push him to learn to drive, and we talked loads. It was good. At one point his barriers came down and he held my hand. But then he said “oh we will just be friends”. I thought this a bit odd?
Friends didn’t work. He basically treated me hot and cold, as he wanted. Would be nice to me, then just ignore me and blank me. So I went to his flat about three months ago and had it out with him big style. It came out in the row that he was very angry about the way we had broken up. Ok, fair enough. However I told him never to speak to me again. So what did he do? Two days later in work when he saw me, sparked up a conversation with me, as if it had never happened.
A difficult work environment
We didn’t speak for three weeks, and it was just awful. Being in the same workplace and having mutual friends. I could see from going by him in the office that he was bothered. The atmosphere was terrible, especially around mutual friends and when I needed to go by him. Someone suggested that we go out for a coffee and put the past behind us. When I suggested it, he seemed up for it, and then went weird, so we ended up falling out about that!
However eventually we met up and you know what, we had a great afternoon. We spent three hours together and it was great. He left with a big smile; walked with me towards my car. Next day in work he was beaming. We had loads of contact. He was protective. He was interested in me. He cared what was going on. After that there has been some chat, often consisting of him following me to the kitchen, then hooking me into conversations, wanting to know what was going on, and asking question after question.
We went out again three weeks ago… same again, for most of the night. After our coffee he asked me to stay out longer which I did. He walked me to the car park, which was quite a way, but then went weird on me like “bye”… huh? I hadn’t asked for anything. He didn’t even see me to the car and make sure that I was safe. His excuse was that the lighting seemed good.
Since then he has just got more and more distant, and now he has completely cut me off again. He blanked and ignored me the other day in work!!!
Insecure, a jerk or a sociopath?
It is so doing my head in. I have been wanting to leave my job ever since we broke up and now I’m getting desperate.
I raised it with my supervisor today. It is emotional control and abuse. I don’t know what I’m going to deal with in work — will he be nice to me, and talk with me, or will he ignore me and blank me, stick his nose up like he can do better ? He ignores me in front of other people that we work with? It’s horrible.
It’s upsetting me and I can no longer work in this environment. You can’t work “around” an abusive relationship; the only solution is to get away. However to do that, I need another job. In the meantime, I have to deal with this ****head in the office, five days a week. It’s killing me. I am going home most nights in tears. I’m either drinking or on sedatives.
This guy is actually very insecure, but hides it well. Right now his ego is boosted by having had an attractive girlfriend who chased after him.
My life is in tatters, as I’m having to leave a secure job because of his behavior, and my mental health is a mess. He walks around like he is the bee’s knees. I try to knock him off his pedestal but nothing works. I’d so like to punch him!
I should tell you that he loves his money. He is obsessed with work and saving, but spends it on nothing. He is a total commitment phobic.
Can you help?
Donna Andersen’s comments
Shanmoo, I welcome you back to Lovefraud, although I am sorry for the circumstances that have precipitated your return.
You’ve asked for help in dealing with “A.” Here are my thoughts.
The basic issue is that “A” has been indecisive, ambivalent and sometimes cruel in his involvement with you. Some of his behavior, such as the following, is typical of sociopaths:
- Blaming you for being negative, claiming to be positive, then complaining incessantly
- Breaking up and treating you like rubbish
- Being hot and cold with you
- After a big fight, talking with you as if nothing had happened, then cutting you off again
So is this guy insecure, a jerk or a sociopath? Although his actions certainly feel abusive, based on the information you’ve included in your letter, a clinician might say “A” doesn’t quite meet the criteria for a personality disorder. (For more on how to determine if someone is “a sociopath,” read, Sociopaths range from sleazy to serial killer.)
Guess what? For you, it doesn’t matter.
More healing
In my opinion, the fact that “A” came into your life means only one thing: You have more healing to do.
This does not mean that you have failed. In fact, it may indicate that you’ve made very good progress.
Here’s how you started your letter:
I can’t believe I’ve had to come back here after five years. I had a spath boyfriend in 2008-2009, and spent many a night on this site. However, I did move forward, and I believed I had dealt with all the issues, karma and justice happened and in fact I met a decent guy. Unfortunately we went our separate ways because of my illness, at that time.
I’m sure you did a lot of personal recovery work. If you saw some measure of karma and justice for your sociopathic ex, that’s terrific. And if “A,” as miserable as he was, wasn’t as bad as your previous sociopathic boyfriend, it means your emotional state has actually improved.
But you’re not finished.
Deep emotional wounds
Throughout our lifetimes, we can suffer many, many emotional wounds. Some are far worse than others.
Often, we are not in a position to deal with them when they occur. During childhood, for example, we may have had to endure abusive or neglectful parents. Or perhaps our mother and father were simply too exhausted trying to make ends meet to give us the attention we craved. Either of these situations — plus anything else that may have happened — can create deep wounds.
But as children, we often can’t do anything about it. We lock the pain up in a corner of our psyche, and do our best to survive.
Then we may have had previous romantic relationships — especially with abusers — that created terrible feelings of disappointment, betrayal and fear. But at the time we may have felt trapped, so again, we stuffed the pain into a psychological closet.
Even romances that end amicably create wounds. You mentioned meeting a “decent guy,” but that didn’t work out. It’s still a disappointment, and you may still be carrying the residue.
Learn more: Dating again after the sociopath
Your involvement with “A” was legitimately painful. But I think it has a hidden blessing. As you release the negative emotions of this experience, the pain of other, deeper wounds may also rise to the surface, so you can release them as well.
Be patient
So what do you do now? Cut yourself some slack. Recognize that you are in the thick of this experience, and it will take you some time to recover.
If you’re arriving home in tears, that’s okay, because that’s how you release the pain.
I would advise that you lay off the alcohol. Alcohol is a depressant, so it will make you feel worse. I’d also advise being careful, and consulting your doctor, on the sedatives.
About your job — don’t do anything yet. Give yourself some time to process everything. You may soon feel better, and discover that “A” is easily ignored at work.
You may also come to the conclusion that you’re better off without him after all, who wants a man who can’t drive and can’t paint?
Lovefraud originally published this article on Sept. 29, 2014.
Yes, you can accept and live in positive energy
Donna
LOL…love your last line.
I think Donna’s comments are spot on. It seems like this guy might have triggered some old emotional wounds which the sociopath in your past planted into your mind. Victims of abuse can easily be triggered by something as small as a smell, a word, someones behavior. To deal with these triggers it’s important for all victims of abuse to stop, recognize what is triggering them and then reframing the new event in their mind. This guy ignoring you is a trigger, figure out what else he has done that is triggering you.
It seems that you are looking for some type of closure from this guy or you are not ready to end this relationship and it is hurting you that this guy wants to move on to just a friendship but you seem to want more when you meet with him for coffee.
I think it would be best for you to see this guy is not the guy for you…you seem to like his company but there are deal breakers that you are choosing to ignore with this guy. Everyone on this planet wants a mate but that does not mean you should settle just because a guy comes along that shows interest in you. Woman need to interview potential mates just like they are interviewing someone to hire at a job. By asking the right questions right from the get go you will narrow down the good guys from the bad guys. Once you lean to love being in your own company you will be picker in who you let into your world. Two good book to weed out the bad guys is How to spot a dangerous man by Sandra Brown and The gift of fear by Gavin Debecker.
For your health issues build up your immune system…Dr Fuhrman has a book on how to do this his website is under his name. His methods really work wonders to healing the body also google “adrenal fatigue” and get tested for cortisol levels, vitamin/mineral deficiency and hormonal imbalance (all issues with victims who have come from abusive relationships). to find a good hormonal doctor google “compounding phamarcy” with your city name then call them for a list. You will be shocked at how quickly your emotions calm and you are able to deal with stressful situations better.
As for work right now do not take it personally that he is “ignoring” you…impose the no contact rule with him, focus on your work and you might see that you both can work together without having any type of personal contact.
Agreed that this man is not for you. He just isn’t.
One of the problems of getting intimate before you know someone well is that it can go sour very quickly in the cold light of day.
Something to bear in mind is that you never want to be so desperate for anyone’s companionship that you find yourself trading out your own happiness for the relationship.
Truly, the man does not sound like a keeper.
You might prefer to be grateful that he is off with another, leaving you free to move on and find someone who is so much better for you!
And, you will!!
You must be strong and tell yourself that his ways towards you just weren’t good enough.
When you get going along with someone and things feel off in some way, you have to be strong and true to yourself, you must be able to tell him, “Hey, I just don’t think it’s working out!” Yes! You be the one who makes that call, Babe! Women are in the driver’s seat! In your case with this one, quite literally!!
I turned my back on the psychopath who targeted me. Had to get the restraining order and have him arrested and go no contact and the whole bit. He was a complete textbook basket case.
And I learned from the ordeal with him that no man is worth trouble. No man is worth trouble!!
A man in your life should be nothing but great. If he’s not willing or able to be just great and wonderful and kind and loving and devoted to you, then chuck him in the bin and move on. Don’t waste anymore precious time.
Your time is valuable! Don’t despair over a loser guy. Just chuck him in the dust bin. He’s not worth another tear on your pretty face!
You’ll be better without such baggage as that one. Leave him be and hold your head up and SMILE! And know that you’re far better off without him! Yes! You are far better off without that baggage.
OMG. If you had continued with him… Just think! You would have had to mother that fool! What an infant! As Donna says, he’s not handy about the house or cars! Hello!!! Red flag! Move on!
You are far better off alone than with a baby man.
However, if you do want someone to love and you could love a baby man, make that baby man a nice kitty cat. They cry like a baby and are snugly and sweet and they will really love you!
I’m so fortunate to have my lovely pussy cat who is devoted and loving to me!
And, after promising my lifelong devotion to him one day, I met the greatest guy who loves me now! And great guy also loves my kitty!
Your great guy is out there hoping to meet you soon, no doubt, so STAY SINGLE until he shows up! And, you keep your power! Wait for him. And be strong, Girl!
You are WORTH IT!!
hina,
This bears repeating. Such good advice!
“You might prefer to be grateful that he is off with another, leaving you free to move on and find someone who is so much better for you!
And, you will!!
You must be strong and tell yourself that his ways towards you just weren’t good enough.”
“A man in your life should be nothing but great. If he’s not willing or able to be just great and wonderful and kind and loving and devoted to you, then chuck him in the bin and move on. Don’t waste anymore precious time.”
First off, you’re going to be fine. You will get over this. I think the strongest advice presented so far is don’t take him personally. A sociopath is just an empty shell, a walking, talking human body with no substance — like one of those empty plastic Easter eggs. The only power that anybody has against us is what we give them. Period. The only real impediment to recovering from this “rerun” are your emotions. This is such a disadvantage for all women – our emotions. All women have hopes, dreams, wishes and most of the time they’re connected to a man. Why is that? There is so much more to life than men but it’s all invisible, ignored and taken for granted as long as all the focus and attention and effort is on getting a man, getting a man, gotta have a man, where are the men, I’m incomplete without a man, blah, blah, ad nauaseum. I hate our culture for raising us with this shallow mentality! In the first place, no matter how great a man is, he can’t possibly fulfill all our desires. And when that man is defective, forget about it. He turns into a job, a project, a drain, a soul sucker, too much work. My God, there are so many better things to do than cry and pine for the attention of someone like that. UGH A second issue that stands out to me is your so-called “friends” at work who recommended this fool to you. They are either totally blind, stupid or feeling sorry for him more than you. and wanted him to have a companion, not giving a thought to the kind of guy he was, which surely they knew. A red flag here was the fact that he is so attractive YET he is still single and needed somebody to hook him up? Hello? It just sounds like you were comfortable in the recovery that you had gained and simply had your guard down. Just look at this as a test. The universe tested to see if you were paying attention. Well, you weren’t…so what. I’m not making light of your pain. I’m just saying. Minimize the importance of this and look at the positives. You’re still alive, you didn’t marry this fool, he didn’t steal all your money or beat you up and put you in the hospital, or worse. More importantly, you are so much better off than he is. You are the real winner but don’t see it. He will not change. He will always be pathetic and helpless and his looks and money aren’t going to help him one iota. They certainly have not helped him so far, have they? That should tell you something. He’ll reject or be rejected by one woman after another for the rest of his pathetic life. You, on the other hand, have a chance for a “real” life with substance and authenticity. Call this what it is, a blip on the radar. No biggie. You have what it takes to jump over this hurdle in one fell swoop. All you have to do is work on detaching your emotions, look just at the facts, affirm your positives, add up your assets, make the decision to do it, then jump! You can do it! Make a gratitude list every day – 10 things you are grateful for. I was in a funk a few months ago about having another birthday. I made a gratitude list that ended up being a mile long. I began to feel better. Learn new things. I can recommend something that will help not only your emotions but also your physical health and your job situation. It’s called EFT tapping. Check out tappingsolutions.com. It’s truly the most miraculous technique! Results happen in minutes! You can be relieved of intense negative emotions, as well as pain very quickly. I hope everybody who reads this will check it out and try it. There is tons of information on the internet about EFT tapping, as well as youtube demonstrations. I recommend starting with tappingsolutions.com. There is a Tapping Solutions book that you can buy, as well as a DVD — not expensive. (Check out Amazon, too.) There is also something called remote QiGong energy healing that I have done several times in the last year. This, too, is amazing. It helps heal emotions, negative thinking, some physical issues disappear, it removes emotional blocks, induces calmness, and it helps you more easily change your perspective on many areas of your life so you can get unstuck and move forward. The website is simply QiGongenergyhealing.com. There is also a lot of information on the Internet about the benefits of this healing. It will help you majorly in your recovery. I guarantee it! EFT tapping actually accomplishes many of the things that the QiGong energy healing does since they both work on the energy body of your physical make-up as a human being. EFT tapping is proven to help fibromyalgia and many other chronic illnesses, AND it’s free!! Once you learn the technique, which is so simple, you have a tool that will serve you the rest of your life. I am so empowered because I have access to both of these healing tools while my ex-spath is somewhere out in the world in a neverending cycle of conning and manipulating people in order to fulfill his needs which are simply food, sex and alcohol, and whatever he can steal just for fun because nothing really means anything to him. You are soooo much better off without Mr. Handsome who has money. You have a chance at a great life while he has a very bleak and dismal future. With the help of EFT you can easily put him out of your mind, along with the “friends” who want to hook him up with gentle, unsuspecting people like you. Dump him AND those people – turn your back on all of them. Use the EFT and get some QiGong energy healing and you will be absolutely amazed and wonder why you wasted a second crying over that idiot. Many blessings to you! Now go get that great life that you deserve and can certainly have! It’s there for the taking!
Imadeit – what a great response to Shanmoo. And I echo your enthusiasm for EFT Tapping – I think it’s a very powerful healing technique for anyone who has been involved with a sociopath.
Shanmoo-
The more needy the guy is….. can’t drive, can’t paint, the more people “do” for him. Most empathetic folks strive to be helpful. You are obviously an empathetic person.
Many years ago, I heard an explanation that impressed me immeasurably. What people do for us does not connect them to us in as meaningful a way as what they allow us to do for them. So in many ways, receiving from a person is not as much of an emotional hook as our doing something helpful for them.
Your guy has mastered hooking you (and others) by allowing you to do things for him.
He does not seem to have a violent streak, so he would be unnoticed as having a character disorder. But his refusal to master simple knowledge that would make him independent shows a narcissistic need to be given attention. Drive me, teach me, make me the center of your universe…. but the hole in his self esteem, that created this problem, will not be solved by any external relationship. He will never feel that any relationship is right enough for him; he’s emotionally disturbed.
He gloats over having had you because he has a serious hole in his self esteem. He measures himself by who he can attract instead of who he is. And he will come back and forth to secure a temporary “fix” as long as you allow him to.
“Emotionally unavailable” would be a good description for this guy.
Emotionally unavailable people can be very attractive and fun to be with, but there is something very wrong with their self esteem. They experience relationships through a warped prism. Without serious therapy, he has no prospect of recovery. While he may have a long-term relationship, it would be because something external like wealth or children are keeping him in it. He will drive his poor wife crazy! Be glad it wasn’t you!
You have a good job that you love. Don’t give it up because the jerk you had a relationship with is emotionally incapable of sustaining your relationship. You are experiencing the chemical withdrawal that exists in breakups from people who stirred your oxytocin. If you can’t yet get to a place where you have the emotional strength to ignore the creep, either try to raise your level of endorphins through a daily dose of physical exercise, by doing things you enjoy, or by getting a mild anti-depressant from a qualified therapist.
Don’t ruin your life over him. He’s not worth it. He might be cute. He might behave in ways that attract you. But inside, he’s damaged goods. All the pushing and pulling was not because of what you did, but because of who he is…. or rather.. is not.
And a quick response to folks who you think are judging you for your breakup with him is simply, “he’s emotionally unavailable.”
All the best!
Joyce
Tapping! Ironically, it was my sociopathic ex who introduced me to a a woman who ‘tapped’ and it is a powerful tool indeed. (I would show up at her home office physically trembling from the psycho behavior of that man and we ‘tapped’ and my body and mind became calm.)
Light years better than the anti-anxiety SSRIs that I unfortunately took – prescribed my none other than the ex’s doctor. Side effects are worse than the ‘cure’ — one side effect is psycho could use it as “evidence” of my purported instability and I was so knocked down by those meds to be barely functional. That is/ was not me!
On the physical health side, a functional medicine practitioner is excellent for hormonal/adrenal strengthening – can be a physician of any number of kinds, MD NP/PA but you are more likely to get compassionate care, in my experience, outside of conventional allopathic medicine with chiropractic.
It like Qigung, tai chi, yoga will help you be strong and balanced and centered and no crazy ass man – or his flunky doctor – will be able to try to convince you otherwise!
In the midst of this situation advice my seem or feel out of the realm of possibility but these healthy things will help you to dig down And find that strength to kick this jerk over!
4YOH-
I’ve heard about “tapping” but don’t know much about it. I think there are many strategies that folks can employ to get past the chemical upheaval of a breakup and I’m glad you mentioned it. I’d love to hear more about how it works.
What I was trying to convey was that Shanmoo’s ex has issues that were not her making, and that she can’t cure. And that there are things she can do to help herself get past this pain, without having to change everything she worked so hard for.
She needs to distance herself emotionally so she can see the forest clearly even though he litters her vision with his trees.
JOyce
Sounds like my brother-in-law. Really bizarre behavior…off and on…cruel and then sensitive. This guy is really sick. He gave up his house to go find a wife in China, when he found one she came over just to get her 10 years in the United States and then left him ‘in the lurch’…he let the pipes burst in his home and it ruined him for any return on his investment. He had to go through a ‘short sale’. He moved in with my husband’s other brother (not a prize either)…the spath lives in his brother’s basement (no heat or light). No one knows where he goes when he takes off in his jeep. He has a picture of his parents (get this…we had mistakenly walked off with the parents’ picture at the mother’s wake…when my husband suffered an aortic aneurysm and was two weeks in the hospital, the spath’s only reply to me was, ‘You never returned my parents’ picture’…in other words…I don’t care that my brother is dying, I just want the picture back.’
Very strange man…to put it mildly.
And what is up with disordered personalities? My family of origin is full of them. I am starting to ‘smell the coffee’, and Lo and Behold…everything they filled my head with is wrong.
I think I am the only normal/healthy one out of the lot of them
Shanmoo
About your situation…so sorry. I left the office work life behind and am now doing home health aide work. Office life was Hell on Earth.
A very handsome and charming man flirted me when I sat at the front desk, and I know what it is like to be watched. The intensity swept me almost off my base and he knew I was married…as in VERY married. He asked me one day (off the bat), “Do you like horseradish?”
Any ideas on this? Was he planning on having me over his place for a meal and would be serving up horseradish?
It’s not a bad thing to be back here. Here I am again, having been devastated by who I thought of as a high school friend I could trust. I let my guard down. So I’m back again to read & learn. This one really hurt.
Sometimes it is good to realize that before we learned about sociopaths we had a blind spot. So anyone we met and knew before that discovery is suspect until we re-analyze them based on our new knowledge.