Joe Paterno, the legendary Penn State football coach, has died.
I can’t help but wonder if the travesty of the last few months, with his former assistant coach, Jerry Sandusky, being charged with sexually molesting 10 young boys over 15 years, killed him.
I’m not an alumna of Penn State. (I am, however, an alumna of Syracuse University, with its own scandal of an assistant basketball coach allegedly molesting boys.) Still, I hate to see the storied career of Joe Paterno forever blackened by the malevolent behavior of one man, if that proves to be the case.
Some people argue that Paterno had to know what was going on. They argue that Paterno was so concerned about his legacy, the reputation of his football program and Penn State University, that he was willing to turn a blind eye to the behavior of Jerry Sandusky.
I’m not so sure.
Since the scandal broke in November, Joe Paterno has given only one interview, to Sally Jenkins of the Washington Post. The story was published on January 14, 2012. It characterizes Joe Paterno as unable to comprehend what Sandusky may have done, because it was simply too foreign to the way Paterno himself lived his life. Jenkins writes:
He reiterated that McQueary was unclear with him about the nature of what he saw and added that even if McQueary had been more graphic, he’s not sure he would have comprehended it.
“You know, he didn’t want to get specific,” Paterno said. “And to be frank with you I don’t know that it would have done any good, because I never heard of, of, rape and a man. So I just did what I thought was best. I talked to people that I thought would be, if there was a problem, that would be following up on it.”
Is it possible to be that unaware of the existence of evil? Yes, it is, and we all know it.
While I was uninitiated, meaning, before my direct, personal encounter with a social predator, I never in my wildest dreams thought that I would cross paths with evil. I didn’t know that someone who appeared to be so loving and caring could have a hidden agenda. I lived a life of integrity, and I believed that the people who were part of my life were like me.
But, some may argue, sex abuse of children has been in the news for years—look at the stories about the Catholic Church. Well, my cousin was abused by priests. He received financial compensation many years ago—it was probably one of the first cases to be settled. I heard people in my family talking about it. Still, I did not comprehend what he must have experienced.
I didn’t understand the human capacity for manipulation and evil until it happened to me.
So, yes, I can believe that Joe Paterno was clueless. He grew up in a different era, when although the sexual abuse of children probably occurred, it certainly wasn’t talked about. He was inspired by his father. He believed in education. He believed in turning troubled athletes around. His whole life was about winning with integrity.
So for Paterno to realize, at this late stage of his life, that he may have been hoodwinked by someone so close to him must have been a terrible shock. It probably didn’t cause his lung cancer. But it may have sapped Paterno’s strength to fight it.
Read Joe Paterno’s last interview, on WashingtonPost.com.
Hmm, I can’t seem to stop thinking of the objections and questions raised regarding ‘labeling’.
Stargazer, you mentioned that holding people accountable for their wrongdoings, no matter which label, is important. I fully agree with that.
But does that necessarily mean we should exclude the activity of judging red flag behaviour? This blog is about learning about red flags and learning to recognize them in other people aside from the spath we knew personally, from personal stories of others but also examples that end up in the media. It is true that people who turn up in the media often turn out to be discussed with regards to their red flag behaviour. But I do find there’s no mob mentality about it. There are always some who label fast, and always some who caution against such a conclusion. In the end there will be no overall agreement unless more info gets out in time. I remember a case about a violent older man who was senile. Paterno too has been discussed ever since Sandunsky’s crimes became public knowledge, less than a year ago. Until the freeh report and the retirement deal circumstances became known last week though, nobody here tried to actively label him. Until last week solely his liability and his accountability was discussed under the cautioned premisse he must have been duped. Labeling Paterno only started after the Freeh report and the riterement deal got published, and only because it does wave red flags.
It is also true that only max 4% of the population is a psychopath. But you cannot apply that statistic with the possible examples discussed here on the blog. First of all, the personal relations and experiences we discuss are already filtered to contain lots of red flag behaviour. The same filtering is done when it comes to media reports. So the public figures and privately known people discussed here are probably rating highly on the red flag scales. This gives the distortive representation that commentators here regard everyone as a spath. That’s not true. We simply do not discuss the people here who do not display strong red flags all over the place.
Also if we are 7 billion people in the world, then 4% of those equal 280 million spaths globally (that’s 28 times the whole population of Belgium for me). If the US has 313,949,000 people living it, then 12,557,960 of those are spaths. That’s still more to me than the whole population of Belgium (almost 11 million). I’m pretty sure we aren’t even close to having covered that many news stories over the years.
As for the 4% rule doesn’t apply to public figures. Some occupations statistically have a higher occurrence of spaths than the average 4%: politicians, bankers, CEOs and high profile managers (including sports and entertainment). In those professions the prevalence is not 4% but 10%. So 1 out of 10 public figures in those professions probably ARE spaths. And if we were discussing inmates, people who are doing time or have done time, almost 1 out of 2 would be a spath (45%). If you then take into account that we filter the people being discussed based on red flags, then yes, a majority of the people discussed here will end up being labeled as a spath, and statistically chances are high that the labelers aren’t even far off.
It then also comes down to our ‘right’ to judge and label people. Of course we cannot legally diagnoze anyone, since we’re not professionals. So, when anyone says ‘that sounds/seems like a spath, both the labeler as the reader must remind themselves there is no absolute diagnosis ability. But we do have brains, can reason and make reasonable conlusions and are free to think and say that chances are very probable that someone is a spath.
Some may find that vicious and wrong to the soul for us to judge people so – to cast the first stone so to speak. I used to be totally non-judgemental. One of the most important lessons for me after the spath experience is that it is sometimes very necessary to judge people when they do wrong for my own safety. It’s better to have a realistic expectation and assessment of situations rather than a hopeful one where there is no hope. And this assessment making on the probability of someone being a spath needs training and exercising. I exercise when I watch movies, when I listen to stories, when I read articles, and when I meet people. Paterno is dead and will pose no direct danger to anyone anymore if he was a spath. So are plenty of other famous names sometimes discussed here. And it might seem wrong to tarnish the names of the dead just for the sake of exercising. But it seems to me a misplaced feeling. It’s more possibly damaging to label living human beings than dead ones, and yet I back up our right to morally judge the living as probable spaths for social protective reasons.
Darwins’mom,
I agree with you. Labels are important. Before I had the “spath” label, I simply didn’t know what was wrong with my spath. I didn’t know that there was a profile for a particular disorder and that he had all the symptoms.
There does seem to be a sliding scale of narcissism. We are all born narcissists, so the level of maturity we reach determines how narcissistic we stay or grow out of. A psychopath is practically a fetus, a parasite in every way.
I started by learning the Psychopath label then came the understanding of the symptoms and then the cause (emotionally arrested development). Later I learned the cause of the cause (bypassed shame). As we learn more and more, we need labels less and less. I recognize shame now when I see it. Even hidden shame, which appears as narcissism, is still shame and it’s still triggered by shaming events.
We’re far beyond just labeling people now. We don’t just call out “spath!” We call out redflags. We’re learning. We also call out cog/dis.
I found it very interesting that I had cog/dis myself when I first heard about Paterno’s behavior. I actually wanted to believe he had simply been duped. There was a WTF? moment when he said that he’d never heard of man/boy sex. Then I went into cog/dis. I didn’t want to believe it. Yet when the emails and the disclosure of his retirement negotiations came out. I snapped out of it. I accepted the truth.
On a sliding scale, I would probably not call him a psychopath straight out. I think he is severely lacking in empathy because he’s extremely narcissistic. The lack of empathy is so severe that he preferred to have children be raped than to put his and Penn state’s football reputation on the line.
It shows me that he was beyond selfish, a narcissist, but not a spath. A spath, I think would have joined in the raping.
I do think that there were more rapists involved though. Pedophiles and spaths don’t usually work alone. They seem to like the camaraderie of sharing their evil deeds with others like themselves.
I was guilty of reserving judgement before too. But don’t feel bad about it, because the truth is, we didn’t have the information we needed to MAKE a judgement. We didn’t have the label. Now we do.
We exercise that judgement. Good turn of phrase, I see how aptly it fits. The more you exercise your judgement the better it works.
BTW, thank you for sharing your story about your childhood. I can relate to being left out and not having many friends. I had my best friend, sometimes two, but when they were sick at home, I sat alone, reading, during recess. I just don’t like large, noisy groups.
Silvermoon, I THINK that while the article you posted about is good in pointing out that the press rarely check their facts, I also find how the same reporter ignores another issue: the retirement deal.
The reporter tries to make it appear as if the board gave him up as a scapegoat in the most unceremonious manner possible because of the media. However, if you know that the board members who were left out of the pre-knowledge Paterno and the negotiatiors had about the upcoming Sandunsky scandal, then learned about Sandunsky they were rightfully upset with Paterno keeping it secret while negotiating a 5.5 million retirement deal. Why woudl they give him any ceremonial and honorable discharge when he actually and knowingly conned them out of 5.5 million.
It is this con that is continually ignored and ommitted by anyone defending Paterno. Why is that? Because it doesn’t fit the bill of an innocent dupee who’s a good person.
BTW I am not stuck here at all either. Spaths are an accepted fact of life to me now. But I’m not going back to judge noone either. A red flag remains a red flag. I know that one red flag doesn’t make a spath. But it’s enough to make me turn my back on a person. And it’s a topic that has become part of my many interests in life. And the best place to discuss some of the findings is done here. Meanwhile, I don’t post about the Higgs-Boson finding here, because this isn’t a physics blog. I may post on the healing importance of say the apartment here, but I won’t detail and post pictures of the design ideas of mine here either. I’m sure people here might be interested in both the Higgs-Boson and interior design disussions, but it simply would be off topic.
Do you regard Donna who created this blog as ‘stuck’ or ‘imprisoned’ in her healing because she still manages it and writes books about spaths and red flags? If you don’t, then there’s no need to consider commentators either because they still post even though they are long healed from the aftermath and have internalized the lessons.
As for turning every rock to look for a spath there… I don’t. I just walk around enjoying the sun and the nature and the rocks. But these rocks sometimes slide or turn all by themselves without my help at all, and they show a huge red flag lying underneath it. That’s when I say, “Ah, that was a red flag!” and go on my merry way. If I know I have some people in tow behind me on the same path, I’ll point out to them: thread carefully, red flag there.
Darwinsmom,
That’s an excellent point about “being stuck” on spaths.
How hypocritical of people to say that continued blogging about spaths is “being stuck” when, in fact, Donna’s blog has saved most of their lives.
If she had decided to simply put it behind her and move on with her life… well I can’t imagine how many people would still be suffering or dead of a spath overdose.
Blogging about spaths is not about being stuck. It’s about helping each other become stronger and wiser. Sharing knowledge is about empowering others. The last thing a spath wants is for people to know the red flags.
The author of this article keeps harping on the fact that the victim who was seen being raped in the shower has never come forward. As if that negates the fact that it happened, as if it negates the fact that spathdusky is a spath, as if it negates the fact that it was reported to Paterno.
The entire article is offensive to me.
Sky,
‘Moving on’ means integration of the past into the present to me. Yes, the past is still the past and it isn’t the present… but who we are is an accumulation of the experiences of our past, including genetic past. The only people actually able to say, that was the past and now I’m gonna be someone completely different and unrelated to the past are spatsh.
This past experience altered my view on the necessity of judging and seeing the necessity of recognizing and acknowledging the presence of red flags and it has helped me incredibly with boundaries. And I think this change is a good thing, not an ugly one. Just like an older trauma (a loss) over a decade ago helped me find the strength to overhaul my life and career into something that gave me fulfillment – teaching and adventure tourleading. Moving on doesn’t mean ‘let’s get through the hurt and pain and then let’s forget about the whole issue and topic for the rest of our lives’, it means integrating what we learned about it to make us stronger.
When 2 nights ago I met that best friend of mine with her slimy bastard of a partner, I first just talked to her (he gave us the chance to talk privately by standing outside for a long while to have a smoke). She poured her happy heart out to me, telling me about all the things he did for her even when she was grumpy, and yes there were fights at times, but nothing alarming (except her saying how ‘fast’ it all was all of a sudden). But let’s say I was willing to socialise with him with an open mind. So I joined him outside after a while. He put his arm around me and asked me ‘We are palls right?’ under the pretense of trying to define us towards the two other guys he was talking to. And I just smiled.
At the same time I noticed him staring at my breast already in a way that gives me the chills (like I was a meal). And once I acknowledged we were palls he simply pulled out all the red flags of his grossness: first acting like my pimp to guys who showed sexual interest, then asking in a jokingly veiled way for a threesome, then just looking at me compulsively as a sexual object, and the whole confession about 3 women waiting all their lives for him and how they would drop their partner in an instant for him, one of them being the woman he lured away from her husband and then later exchanged for my friend and how if he’s alone with her in a room for 10 mins they’d be all over each other.
I set out that night to give him the benefit of the doubt and find some quality in the guy that isn’t a red flag… but like a magician doing tricks he was pulling one red flag after another after another out of his magic hat, and they became bigger and bigger and bigger and more dirty and grosser as he pulled them out. I didn’t find this toad under a rock, my best and lifelong friend got found and targeted by the toad.
Every time I caution myself against labeling him a spath in my mind, he just has to prove to me more and more that he is one. The only way not to see what I’m not asking to see is putting blinders on for myself. At least one of us should have their eyes open about this turd she’s changing her live for. Now, I’m just waiting for the moment when she tells me how she sold her apartment and wanting to invest it in his designer business. She was already talking about her future work on independent level. But no manager is an independent freelancer unless they are the partner of someone with a business. I hope she’s smarter than that, at least she was smart enough not to rent it out immediately, because she felt like she needed to keep her apartment available to herself if their living together arrangement didn’t work out.
Quite frankly, I’m thoroughly taken aback that people who use this site to heal are being assessed as “stuck.”
You’re dammed skippy I was “stuck!” It takes years – literally – to recover from sociopathic entanglements, whether it’s a romantic involvement or a friend/family member. To claim that the readers of this site are “stuck” is an unfortunate attempt to turn the tables and project. Silvermoon, without meaning to sound cruel or vicious, I feel that it is you who is “stuck.” You are vociferously defending an individual who was raised up as a living god, gave the outward appearance to be working for the good of humanity, allowed someone who had been witnessed by a member of his staff to be RAPING a child, and then brokered a 5.5 million dollar severence deal before the shit hit the proverbial legal fan. What Paterno may, or may not, be is not at issue, here. Paterno failed, failed miserably, and he was more interested in the “reputation” of an atheltic program than he was his own “integrity,” and that of Penn State. It’s plain and simple. Sociopath? Who knows – the red flags are poppin up even after he’s been buried. But, he was NOT the living legend that he had pretended to be. And, that is just a plain, simple fact.
Having said this, I understand why we defend “bad” people – I’ve been there, myself. I defended a spouse who was violently abusive to me, commited spousal rape, beat the shit out of me, threatened murder (and, suicide), and a host of other abuses that were far more insidious. I defended that person because I desperately wanted to believe that there remained “some good” in him. I did not want to acknowledge that I had made a mistake in judgement and been fooled by him. I even attacked people in my network of friends and lost them because of my cognitive dissonance. I could NOT reconcile the man that I fell in love with to the monster that he truly was, and I tried to fit his actions into my system of beliefs.
If you’re still reading responses and comments about this discussion, and you intend to post at a later date, it may be a good choice to consider the insults that you’ve posted against everyone who has found this site before they either took their own lives, or had their lives taken from them by their sociopathic tormentors. The reason that I say this is that Donna created this site as the result of a series of horrific betrayals, and her efforts at educating and healing herself, and making healing possible for others, has been slammed in an online disagreement.
You see, the difference between an empath and a sociopath is that each makes mistakes, errors in judgment, and hurts other people. The sociopath walks away after slinging their mud without a backward glance. The empath recognizes that they have said or done something that may have offended or harmed someone else, and takes responsibility for that through a sincere apology.
Silvermoon, if you haven’t found any help on this site in your own healing processes, then you’re allowed to sling as many insults as you wish – it hasn’t helped you and you feel no sense of appreciation for the site, its readers, its bloggers, and its contributing authors. But, if you have found healing on this site, it may be a good option to sit back, take a deep breath, and try to read BEYOND what you perceived to be slings and arrows against Penn State, as an institution, and Joe Paterno, as an enabling party to heinous crimes.
I have found tremendous healing on this site. Sometimes, I read responses or suggestions that were not pleasant to me, but they were truthful. I have sat in front of this computer screen MANY, many times with tears streaming down my face in fear, in shame, in desperation, and in gratitude, and I don’t appreciate any minimization of my healing processes, OR the healing that I’ve seen of others.
Still, and yet, I offer you my brightest blessings for your own healing
http://chirb.it/LJ2cyt
Joe Paterno, as a single individual, did more for Penn State than the Board of Trustees collectively. I worked to prevent child sexual abuse for more than 30 years, have given talks in 32 American states and several countries, and have had more than $3 million in grant funding to conduct research on child sexual abuse. One might expect that I would view the decision of the Board of Trustees in terminating Joe Paterno’s employment. However, I was, and remain, appalled by the impulsive action of the Trustees in firing Joe Paterno based on allegations of another individual’s wrongdoing. Allegations are not findings of fact, they remain only accusations until an impartial hearing of the facts in a court of law results in, or fails to demonstrate, a finding of guilt. It is essential to note several things that are facts: (1) Joe Paterno did not harm a child (and, in fact, he has contributed to many young men becoming responsible adults and fathers), (2) Joe Paterno did what is required in the State of Pennsylvania when an educator has a reasonable belief that a child has been abused or neglected, (3) a football coach is not a mandated reporter in the State of Pennsylvania, and (4) despite doing what an educator is required to do when suspected abuse is identified, he wished he had done more. This admission does not imply guilt, it conveys his wish that he could have done more to protect children.
The post-Memorial Services call-in comments presentation was well narrated by the two hosts. There was a variety of solid opinions and expressive statements made by the callers. One lady caller indicated that Joe Paterno should be faulted for the 2002 “shower incident” because it occurred under his watch. That statement has been made before by a small segment of the populace. Situations should be based on the truth. Her statement and those who agree with that statement are conveying an untruthful statement. The shower incident did not occur under Joe Paterno’s watch and did not occur under Penn State’s watch. Jerry Sandusky was no longer a Penn State employee, he was a Second MIle Organization employee. He was under their watch, they were totally responsible for his actions. Joe Paterno made the incident aware to the athletic director who made it aware to his supervisor. At the same time, the athletic director and his supervisor made the Second Mile Organization aware of it and they did nothing about it. The investigation should have centered around that organization. Mr. Corbett, as Attorney General focused the investigation on Penn State and not the Second Mile. An investigation should be initiated centered on Mr. Corbett and the Second MIle organization. These are the TRUE facts, not opinions. This statement by the lady caller that the event was under Joe Paterno’s watch is absolutely not a fact and is not the truth.
http://pcntv.com/blog/2012/01/26/public-memorial-service-for-joe-paterno-to-air-live-statewide/
Silvermoon,
once again you completely ignore that the board fired him also after they learned that Paterno knew about the investigation and negotiated a face-saving and major financial retirement deal out of it. He conned the board. That he built the library with 4 million becomes pretty much a void statement, when he got at least 1.5 million more for personal gain out of the retirement deal alone.
He was gonna retire that year, but after conning them out of 5.5 million that way they obviously did what they did to prevent him from also retiring as if nothing happened and he was completely innocent and knew nothing. Had he been less greedy, less manipulative and more honest about his retirement deal they probably wouldn’t have felt as conned by him and even might have let him play out the year or keep the honour of pre-retirement all to himself. But no, the captain knew the ship was about to sink as it embarked on its last trip, and made sure HIS lifeboat was ready before the rest and have it carry as much gold as he could gather, and then when everything came out he pretended to be the honourable captain who’d leave the boat himself. Sole thing the rest of the crew had left to them was shove him in his lifeboat themselves.