Sometimes I like to revisit, churn all over again, a prior concern around sociopathy. A number of colleagues were recently stressing the defective quality of empathy in the more sociopathic clients they work with, while I found myself stressing the quality of remorselessness in the more sociopathic clients with whom I work (and have worked).
In my view, remorselessness is a much more serious indicator of sociopathy than lack of empathy per se. I know I’ve stated this in previous pieces, but well”¦here I go all over again.
Many people lack empathy for a great many reasons, depending on how one even defines empathy. But clearly this is true—many of us have a relatively difficult time emotionally stepping into another’s shoes and genuinely, emotionally inhabiting (as it were) his or her experience; that is, feeling their experience with them, for them.
I’d venture to say that a rather high percentage of the general population fails pretty badly at meeting this pretty classical criterion to be considered “empathic.” Of course, nothing is black and white: sometimes we find ourselves experiencing empathy in surprising circumstances, almost unaccountably; otherwise, sensing that empathy is clearly indicated in certain situations, we might find ourselves in suprisingly, uncomfortably short supplies of it?
And so the experience of pure empathy eludes many of us, perhaps even the majority of us, often”¦more often than we might even want to admit.
However, remorselessness is a whole different kettle of fish. A typical case involving a nonsociopath goes like this. One partner, a good communicator, says to her husband, “What you said to me last night in front of our company was humiliating. You have no idea, I’m guessing, how much that hurt me and pissed me off. If you ever do that again, I swear I may never forgive you.”
Her husband, if he’s really honest, might say, “You know what? I really don’t have any idea. I didn’t see, and still don’t, why what I said was that big a deal. I was trying to be funny. I didn’t think you’d take it so personally.”
This husband, we might say, lacks empathy. We don’t even need to know what he said that aroused his wife’s ire to surmise that, here, in this example, taken from a couples session I facilitated recently, he is demonstrating less than optimal empathy.
But he also added, sincerely, “I’m sorry. I am. I’m sorry I hurt you so much. I won’t do that again.”
His wife was only somewhat appeased by his apology because, while it expressed remorse, it didn’t reflect much, if any, empathy. And she wanted more than remorse. She wanted empathy.
I believe it is entirely possible, even common, to express remorse, sincerely, even in the absence of empathically appreciating the impact of the original behavior for which you are expressing the remorse. This is because, if you are not a sociopath, you can really feel bad for hurting someone even without quite understanding why what you did was so hurtful.
Now, in the example above, the partner chastised for his previous night’s insensitivity could have responded differently, reacting to his wife’s feedback with, “You know what? Too damned bad. So you felt hurt? Well”¦get over it.”
This would be a response not only lacking in empathy but also in remorse. As an isolated, occasionally defensive, hostile response, it wouldn’t necessarily suggest the presence of sociopathy; but as a patterned kind of remorseless reaction it may very well signal the presence of sociopathic tendencies.
In the vast majority of cases, the relatively non-empathic individual reacts with some form of true remorse upon learning he or she has been experienced as damaging, even if it comes as a real, confusing surprise to learn this. Again, the typical response might be along the lines of, “Really? I had no idea.” (reflecting defective empathy) “But I’m really sorry. I didn’t mean to hurt you like that.” (reflecting remorse).
Where remorse is missing from acts that have been experienced as hurtful, we find ourselves in much more seriously disturbed territory. Sociopaths, of course, may feign remorse, although many times not. But feigned, shallow remorse—remorse that serves his self-interest, not yours—is worth less than no remorse.
A chronic theme of weak, or absent, remorse is thus much more indicative of the sociopathically oriented individual than the measure of his empathy. Oddly enough weak, or even sometimes missing, empathy, doesn’t necessarily preclude some form of meaningful connection with another (although it won’t be empathically-based).
But weak, or missing, remorse fatally does preclude such a connection, ensuring only the possibility of a damaging, exploitive experience.
(This article is copyrighted © 2011 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is for convenience’s sake only, not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the attitudes and behaiors discussed.)
Petite,
you said,
Is it normal for a guy to whom you have said that I need time, to write like this to the girl.
This is not so abnormal in my own jaded eyes. But the spaths will MIMICK normal. That’s why it’s so hard to peg them at first. You have already pegged him so anything else he says is just “fluff”. Like I said, he will be back, no doubt about it.
Petite,
That is correct. NO woman can make him happy b/c when life is good, he’s looking again just in case there is another who can make him happier still. (btw, happiness is not his need, besides he is incapable of feeling happy. he can feel victorious or pleasure but happiness is not an emotion that he is able to feel.
yes Katy – you are right,
victory, winning and pleasure is all what he can feel, you said it very well.
petite
.
sorry Erin, you post is blank.
petite
petite,
.the next time,{if there IS a next time} he goes on about “someone from my own culture” I suggest you say,
Yea ,I have a particularly stinky cheese, maybe you share a culture with it!”
“But not everyone likes the culture it came from as its so smelly!”And its mouldy!
Love, and good luck!
Mama gemXX
thanks gemini.
I prefer not to say anything at all, as if I say anything to that effect – he will say “you are putting words into my mouth, you chnaged my words”. you said it, not me. etc etc.
once he said that I was impolite about something and it was a very non-specific event and he did not expect it, that I would trun around and say to him “yes. you are right, I am impolite, so you should have never liked me”.
after that his face changed color and he apologised a lot.
he thought I would defend myself and say – I was not impolite, but I learnt from some articel, accept when they tell us we are whatever and then turn it back to them and say – so, if that is the case, you should not like me and be with me.
petitie
tobehappy –
“Not sure that people with asperger’s lack empathy. They may not SHOW it..but they are very sensitive.
My daughter is aspergers. She is the most sweet, sensitive, loving child that I have. ”
I, too, have a close family relationship with a child with Asperger’s. He is 10 and he is a darling. As with all forms of autism spectrum disorder, Aperger’s is on a continuum.
Some are severely affected and part of the severity is displayed in their inability to empathise (feel what others feel and put themselves in someone else’s shoes), to sympathise (feel sorry for someone else, even if the reason for their sorrow is not known or understood), to differentiate between humour/fantasy and fact (they don’t “get” jokes or sarcasm or irony but take everything as literal), or to regulate/temper their own emotions.
I have worked with severely autistic kids for whom all of the above is sadly true. I have also worked with one little guy who had mild Asperger’s but also was afflicted with ADHD and Multiple PD (which I believe now has a new name). It was a crazy combination of disease and was really hard for him (and for us!) to cope with. He did, however, have a great sense of humour and was good at imaginative play, when not in the throes of the MPD or the ADHD.
My 10-year-old family member is a clever, articulate little boy, who writes fantastic stories, has a good imagination, is kind to my animals and is an ace at mathematics. His fine and gross motor skills, however, have been huge issues for him – especially at school. Teachers can’t read his terrific stories because his writing is like chook scratchings and they won’t accept his maths answers because he does it all mentally (in his head) and doesn’t show the “working out” that they “require”. Nor is he able to explain to them how he gets the answers right. And he is clumsy, which also causes problems.
He is very sensitive (like your daughter) and clearly has empathy as well as displaying sympathy as appropriate. Yet, when frustrated, frightened or overwhelmed, he is completely unable to regulate his emotions, which results in over-the-top reactions and “unacceptable” behaviour at school. He goes into a complete meltdown when things do not go the way he expects them to.
So – in my experience, and in my opinion, the ability of Autistics (Asperger’s or otherwise) to empathise, sympathise and/or demonstrate remorse as a result of their own personal levels of empathy/sympathy, really comes back to where they are on the “continuum”.
That’s NOT the way it is with spaths. There is no remorse and any demonstrations of empathy/sympathy/remorse are well-rehearsed mimicry of how those things should look. They learn by watching how the rest of the world does it, then mirroring it back. It’s not real.
True-to-Self –
“Maybe I am confusing conscience with remorse. On the other hand conscience seems more like empathy.”
Your conscience will do two things – it will stop you from doing something that you know is wrong, illegal, immoral, exploitative, hurtful or unnecessarily nasty or in bad taste. It will also hammer you to either feel bad/regret any wrong you have done and/or make amends and/or apologise for that wrong.
Remorse is only one manifestation of your conscience – it’s the aftermath.
Empathy is the ability to not only “put yourself in someone else’s shoes” but to also CARE about what that feels like and to then be careful with how you treat them as a consequence of that knowledge/feeling.
A good, working conscience will involve exercising both empathy and remorse – where appropriate.
“I have an autistic daughter who is very low in her speech …She does have a conscience though as she can “sign” I’m sorry.
As I already wrote, various aspects/traits of autistic behaviour will depend on “where” an individual is on the “continuum” – and that “continuum” is not a straight (or even a curved) line either. Everyone is different.
“I thought he was being passive aggressive. I now know that he was very sadistic. Does he have remorse? Sometimes he seemed to. There were a couple of really unforgivable things he did that he had tears in his eyes when he said he was sorry, one was tearing up my dead daddy’s Bible, and the other was calling me ugly the night he left for good.”
I have written here before of the royal command performance in fake remorse given by my ex-husband (the Super-spath) where he shook all over and blubbered until the snot dribbled out of his nose and he dry retched. Sure did LOOK like remorse to me. I bought it; and lived to regret my mistake.
The minute he worked out that I was no longer buying into the years and years of lying and pity-ploys, his full venom toward me was unleashed. I can not imagine a demon sent straight from Satan being any more vitriolic, poisonous, hateful, cruel or frightening than that man now is to me (and he has maintained this unchecked, unmasked rage for over three years now – it just keeps bubbling away and spilling over and is downright revolting to behold).
True-to-Self –
“Can a spath ever have a breakdown as in get depressed, anxiety or a complete break with reality?”
Sociopathy/ASPD/Psychopathy can and often DOES co-occur with other PDs and or mental disorders (such as anxiety) – so, yes. Just don’t make the mistake that I did, in excusing and overlooking obviously “spathy” behaviour by saying, “Well, he IS depressed/anxious/having a breakdown”.
You know what? I’m pretty darned sure that the PTSD I had post-spath would also be classified a “breakdown” and that the extreme and debilitating anxiety that I suffered for years would have excused any number of behaviours on my part. The difference between ME and HIM is that I NEVER ONCE purposely hurt anyone, actively hunted them down, sucked them to a crisp and then tried to finish them off, the way that he did to me.
Any co-occurring condition they may or may not have in no way excuses the rest of what they do. Nice people also have depression, anxiety, and breakdowns. They don’t hunt to kill.
newlife08 –
“But my son ? The little walking heart is faithful to his dad . I’m sure if he stopped kissing his ring my son would get the same treatment as his sister ”“ but would the N/S need to punish him now ?”
Think. Didn’t YOU kiss his ring until you worked him out? Weren’t YOU a “little walking heart” who was also “faithful”?
Isn’t THAT why it hurt you so much? Those things didn’t protect you from him, did they?
Jeannie –
I am so broken. I believe it has damaged me to the point where I am never gonna recover. I am not a likeable person. …I think I went to hell….I am so miserable. ”
You DID go to hell honey. x. We all did. We all felt broken, damaged and irrecoverable. Some of us are still wading through that bit.
I used to play Sarah McLachlan’s song, “Fallen”, over and over and over again – thinking it must have somehow been my fault. That and “Stupid”. And when I was REALLY down on myself, I’d listen to “Angel”, which is about wanting to die from the pain.
All I can do is reassure you that it will pass. All in time.
LL –
You will find that several of us here have fibro. Makes you wonder whether we would have gotten it anyway if we had not been spathed, or whether being slimed by them kick-started it, doesn’t it?
petite –
WOW!!!! You are back and you have been a good girl and LISTENED! Not many adults would have been able to take on board the kind of brutal advice you were given here, but you have not only done it, but you are still doing it. Bravo!! xx
Harmony –
re BPD: When my ex-husband was initially being considered for a diagnosis of a mental health disorder, his doctors at first thought it was Bi-Polar, and then BPD.
I researched all merry hell out of BPD at the time and I was GLAD to think that that was what he had, because
(a) I knew that it meant that he WAS sorry for the dreadful things he was doing; and
(b) I knew that there were good, effective treatments available that could enable him to live a reasonably happy and normal life. BPD was a welcome answer in my opinion.
Sadly, it was NOT BPD. To my knowledge he has not gone back for any further tests – he now insists that nothing is wrong with him or any of his vile behaviours.
I am glad for you that you have a disorder that still allows you the capacity for remorse. I am even more pleased that there are good treatments that should help your life to be easier for you to cope with and manage. The fact that you have genuine abandonment issues must be truly complicating your struggle to overcome the pseudo-abandonment issues that are part and parcel of BPD – you poor thing! xx
I wish you well in your journey to nail this thing and to go on to have a productive and positive life.