Sometimes I like to revisit, churn all over again, a prior concern around sociopathy. A number of colleagues were recently stressing the defective quality of empathy in the more sociopathic clients they work with, while I found myself stressing the quality of remorselessness in the more sociopathic clients with whom I work (and have worked).
In my view, remorselessness is a much more serious indicator of sociopathy than lack of empathy per se. I know I’ve stated this in previous pieces, but well”¦here I go all over again.
Many people lack empathy for a great many reasons, depending on how one even defines empathy. But clearly this is true—many of us have a relatively difficult time emotionally stepping into another’s shoes and genuinely, emotionally inhabiting (as it were) his or her experience; that is, feeling their experience with them, for them.
I’d venture to say that a rather high percentage of the general population fails pretty badly at meeting this pretty classical criterion to be considered “empathic.” Of course, nothing is black and white: sometimes we find ourselves experiencing empathy in surprising circumstances, almost unaccountably; otherwise, sensing that empathy is clearly indicated in certain situations, we might find ourselves in suprisingly, uncomfortably short supplies of it?
And so the experience of pure empathy eludes many of us, perhaps even the majority of us, often”¦more often than we might even want to admit.
However, remorselessness is a whole different kettle of fish. A typical case involving a nonsociopath goes like this. One partner, a good communicator, says to her husband, “What you said to me last night in front of our company was humiliating. You have no idea, I’m guessing, how much that hurt me and pissed me off. If you ever do that again, I swear I may never forgive you.”
Her husband, if he’s really honest, might say, “You know what? I really don’t have any idea. I didn’t see, and still don’t, why what I said was that big a deal. I was trying to be funny. I didn’t think you’d take it so personally.”
This husband, we might say, lacks empathy. We don’t even need to know what he said that aroused his wife’s ire to surmise that, here, in this example, taken from a couples session I facilitated recently, he is demonstrating less than optimal empathy.
But he also added, sincerely, “I’m sorry. I am. I’m sorry I hurt you so much. I won’t do that again.”
His wife was only somewhat appeased by his apology because, while it expressed remorse, it didn’t reflect much, if any, empathy. And she wanted more than remorse. She wanted empathy.
I believe it is entirely possible, even common, to express remorse, sincerely, even in the absence of empathically appreciating the impact of the original behavior for which you are expressing the remorse. This is because, if you are not a sociopath, you can really feel bad for hurting someone even without quite understanding why what you did was so hurtful.
Now, in the example above, the partner chastised for his previous night’s insensitivity could have responded differently, reacting to his wife’s feedback with, “You know what? Too damned bad. So you felt hurt? Well”¦get over it.”
This would be a response not only lacking in empathy but also in remorse. As an isolated, occasionally defensive, hostile response, it wouldn’t necessarily suggest the presence of sociopathy; but as a patterned kind of remorseless reaction it may very well signal the presence of sociopathic tendencies.
In the vast majority of cases, the relatively non-empathic individual reacts with some form of true remorse upon learning he or she has been experienced as damaging, even if it comes as a real, confusing surprise to learn this. Again, the typical response might be along the lines of, “Really? I had no idea.” (reflecting defective empathy) “But I’m really sorry. I didn’t mean to hurt you like that.” (reflecting remorse).
Where remorse is missing from acts that have been experienced as hurtful, we find ourselves in much more seriously disturbed territory. Sociopaths, of course, may feign remorse, although many times not. But feigned, shallow remorse—remorse that serves his self-interest, not yours—is worth less than no remorse.
A chronic theme of weak, or absent, remorse is thus much more indicative of the sociopathically oriented individual than the measure of his empathy. Oddly enough weak, or even sometimes missing, empathy, doesn’t necessarily preclude some form of meaningful connection with another (although it won’t be empathically-based).
But weak, or missing, remorse fatally does preclude such a connection, ensuring only the possibility of a damaging, exploitive experience.
(This article is copyrighted © 2011 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is for convenience’s sake only, not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the attitudes and behaiors discussed.)
Dear Justdreaming,
That is the frustration we face when we realize that we don’t have the power to save someone from themselves.
I just returned from a trip to Texas to see my BF of 30+ years and she is depressed, living (still) in an abusive marriage that is now in it’s 45th year and is more a non-marriage, but non-divorce, stage with him being verbally and emotionally abusive to her and her depression deepens and deepens, but she is not going to DO anything, she is to afraid to do anything, so she sinks deeper and deeper into depression, anger, frustration, etc.—but there is not a thing I can do to help her—NOTHING. NADA. ZILCH. ZERO. NONE.
She is held into the relationship with 45 years of hope that it would get better, but now with fear of what would happen if she tried to buck the “system” financially and otherwise that has grown up around this situation. She’s also been a stay at home wife for the past 25 yrs due to having a severely injured son (her only child) so her social security is not much and as for their other assets outside of a small paid for home, and their small ranch and cabin on it, I’m not sure if she could “make it” financially in the event of a divorce. Her sister just went on social security and a small pension at age 65, without any assets except an RV that is paid for and not enough money per month to even rent an apartment. The sister just moved in with my friend out of desperation because she had no other place to go and couldn’t come up with enough money to get a hook up for her RV even.
I don’t doubt with the economy what it is that there is more than one “relationshit” held together by financial issues, because with shelters full, and it being almost impossible to get a shelter bed unless you have children, and jobs hard to come by, more than a few stay for those reasons alone.
It is frustrating to me that I can’t get my friend to help herself, but until SHE sees the need to help herself, all of MY seeing her need to help herself isn’t going to do a thing for her self awareness.
Just like Petite said about me telling her from the start that I thought her boyfriend was “not a good guy”—she defended him UNTIL SHE EVENTUALLY SAW THE TRUTH and so my words fell on deaf ears until then. I DEFENDED my P son even to myself because I WANTED To believe he was “reformed.” I ignored the evidence I was wrong, and only “saw” the things that went along with my beliefs, and nothing against them.
When my son C was early into the relationshit with the P that he married, I didn’t talk bad about her at all, but I just carefully cautioned them to WAIT to get to know each other better before they got married….so, they almost immediately ELOPED before “mom could break it up.” LOL He said later that the “honeymoon” lasted about 6 months and then he had 7 years of HELL before she tried to kill him and he got the divorce. Even as gullible as he was, I think she knew that I was “on to” her even though I was so “kissy sweet” to her face that I almost puked. Maybe I’m not as good of an actress as I like to think I am. LOL
justdreamin,
Just a few words before I have to run here for the day.
About this girl. My daughter was just slightly younger than that when she became involved with a spath. Same dance, different building. Briefly, she came home, went back, came home, went back. She’s been out now for a several months. ANd doing well!
I knew I could not talk her out of anything, but she was aware of what it is/was to be involved with a spath, because she knew that I was. It was the KNOWLEDGE that i believe got her out of it. She made the choice, but always having that intuitive bug in her ear, as it were, made it possible for her to leave eventually.
So having said that, even if you just put a BUG in her ear, it will come to mind, I believe, each time he abuses her. It might take awhile, but if you get the opportunity again, just keep dropping info into her brain. IT may not seem like she’s getting it…but knowledge is power. And she’s very young. Sure wish I’d had that advice at her age.
LL
As you may know I have been chatting to spath’s ex. She was doing ok, new flat and all. I was filling her in with emails (edited) from this site but he’s been in touch with her and wants to move in. She is ‘weak’ with love for him.
He’s messed her around for 10years! He’s nowhere to stay (all the pity stuff) no pute of his own, jeese I can read this like a book thanks to all the help on here, no job, red flags are all over him. BUT she STILL thinks he will change.
I feel like boinking her over the head with the proverbial frying pan.
She has told him to give her money up front so i think he will get his dole Fri and make his move.
So in my last text I said I would not have that paedo under MY roof again. This may just tip the balance….I won’t know til after the weekend.
((((((((((((((steam coming outta my ears at this point))))))))))
Any advice that I can give/help her would be appreciated.
Thing is……she KNOWS IT in her own head but still ARRRRRRHHH words fail me. Guess it’s cos I feel helpless.
LL and Oxy, very helpful words. There is nothing I can literally DO to change things. But I am in a position to put a bug in her ear, and I will. Knowledge is what empowered me, for sure, even though it was a process of a couple months for me to act on it.
This is another thing I have learned in the past year, that certain people don’t even have to say or do anything, they are just solid good people that EXIST and you know it when you are floundering. You know there is hope and goodness just because you see these people around you living their normal lives.
I just got some bad news.
I’m trying as hard as I can to deal with it.
I thought I had a clean bill of health, apparently this isn’t so.
The results came back from the radiologist and the doctor with regards to my mammogram and ultrasound. There are “abnormalities” in my left breast that are NOT fibrocystic and point to a mass that looks to them like cancer.
i’m SCARED to death. I knew something wasn’t right.
And yet another consequence of poor choices and the endless amounts of stress with a spath.
How funny all of this is…………..
LL
Lesson
Try not to worry. I had the same thing happen, had an open biopsy in the hospital, it was removed and NOT cancerous, although it appeared very suspicious.
My mom died from breast cancer, her mom (maternal g-mother) also had it, my aunt, cousin, etc. Runs in the family. I was so scared. What’s the next step?
LL,
The health problems are our bodies telling us it’s time to change. You’ve taken the first and most important step, recognizing and getting rid of the spath. There is lots more work to do, but at this point you need a fast track answer that will carry you until you can get to that better place. The only thing I’ve ever found that works is asking God to carry my burden for a little while so that I can rest and be at peace. He always does.
Candy, just lost a post to cyberspace, but I understand your frustration with her, but until SHE sees the need to accept the evidence that is right in front of her face, nothing you will say or do will influence her. We (humans) frankly BELIEVE WHAT WE WANT TO BELIEVE NO MATTER WHAT THE EVIDENCE IS to the contrary.
It has always been very frustrating and stressful to me to see someone farking up their life, jumping off a cliff so to speak when I could see it was gonna break both legs but they kept saying “Nah, it won’t hurt me” then jumping and danged if they didn’t break both legs, but then would DO IT AGAIN! DUH! But I was really doing the same thing myself, actually, by not realizing that I could NOT SAVE THEM from themselves.
Just like with my best friend for the past 30 years, that I love like a sister,, she is so depressed and getting worse and her husband is verbally and emotionally abusing her and I see what is going on, I see how SERIOUSLY and CLINICALLY depressed she is and how she is IN DENIAL, but she is NOT going to listen to a word I would say because if she did, she would have to make some CHANGES she is NOT WILLING TO DO, she is not going to stand up to her husband, she is not going to get a divorce, she is not going to go to counseling, she is not going to face the demons that scare her to death—the demons of TRUTH. That truth is tooo scary for her to face and so she will DENY DENY DENY it.
Same with the woman you are dealing with she is NOT going to do anything about the problems she has with him because she is DENYING that they are real. Short term, denial is a way to deal with them, but LONG TERM IT IS THE WORST WAY because it precludes us taking action so the situation only can get worse not better.
LL, hang in there kiddo, and don’t panic until you get the real reports back, just be sure and follow up with your further tests,, it may still come back not cancer, and even if it is cancer, it is caught early on so there is a good chance it can be taken care of. I know that advice sounds trite, but it is spot on, worry about something isn’t gonna help it at all! (((hugs))) and my prayers
LL;
I know the fear. BUT…..as the others have spoken…. try to minimize the worry until the ‘fat’ lady sings….and all reports are in.
AND even then…..don’t worry.
Only do what you CAN to deal with it…..what you DO have control over……like seeking and following up with medical care.
I beleive this is the universes way of telling you…..GIRL….it’s time to take care of YOU!
Whether it IS or IS NOT cancer……is NOT up to you now. So, it ‘s a good time to realize this. Go through the motions of doing what the universe is leading you towards…..and I believe that is YOU!
All the drama and chaos in our lives, brought on by others and allowed in by us…….creates illness…..or warnings……
LISTEN UP GIRLY!
Take care of YOU……start today!
Your life is ALL ABOUT YOU!
We can’t give charity to others that we don’t have to give.
Either way……this is leading your somewhere……
XXOO
EB
LL so sorry to hear about your test results. What a bummer on top of everything else you are dealing with. Stay strong and be positive – success rates are much higher if you are positive.