Sometimes I like to revisit, churn all over again, a prior concern around sociopathy. A number of colleagues were recently stressing the defective quality of empathy in the more sociopathic clients they work with, while I found myself stressing the quality of remorselessness in the more sociopathic clients with whom I work (and have worked).
In my view, remorselessness is a much more serious indicator of sociopathy than lack of empathy per se. I know I’ve stated this in previous pieces, but well”¦here I go all over again.
Many people lack empathy for a great many reasons, depending on how one even defines empathy. But clearly this is true—many of us have a relatively difficult time emotionally stepping into another’s shoes and genuinely, emotionally inhabiting (as it were) his or her experience; that is, feeling their experience with them, for them.
I’d venture to say that a rather high percentage of the general population fails pretty badly at meeting this pretty classical criterion to be considered “empathic.” Of course, nothing is black and white: sometimes we find ourselves experiencing empathy in surprising circumstances, almost unaccountably; otherwise, sensing that empathy is clearly indicated in certain situations, we might find ourselves in suprisingly, uncomfortably short supplies of it?
And so the experience of pure empathy eludes many of us, perhaps even the majority of us, often”¦more often than we might even want to admit.
However, remorselessness is a whole different kettle of fish. A typical case involving a nonsociopath goes like this. One partner, a good communicator, says to her husband, “What you said to me last night in front of our company was humiliating. You have no idea, I’m guessing, how much that hurt me and pissed me off. If you ever do that again, I swear I may never forgive you.”
Her husband, if he’s really honest, might say, “You know what? I really don’t have any idea. I didn’t see, and still don’t, why what I said was that big a deal. I was trying to be funny. I didn’t think you’d take it so personally.”
This husband, we might say, lacks empathy. We don’t even need to know what he said that aroused his wife’s ire to surmise that, here, in this example, taken from a couples session I facilitated recently, he is demonstrating less than optimal empathy.
But he also added, sincerely, “I’m sorry. I am. I’m sorry I hurt you so much. I won’t do that again.”
His wife was only somewhat appeased by his apology because, while it expressed remorse, it didn’t reflect much, if any, empathy. And she wanted more than remorse. She wanted empathy.
I believe it is entirely possible, even common, to express remorse, sincerely, even in the absence of empathically appreciating the impact of the original behavior for which you are expressing the remorse. This is because, if you are not a sociopath, you can really feel bad for hurting someone even without quite understanding why what you did was so hurtful.
Now, in the example above, the partner chastised for his previous night’s insensitivity could have responded differently, reacting to his wife’s feedback with, “You know what? Too damned bad. So you felt hurt? Well”¦get over it.”
This would be a response not only lacking in empathy but also in remorse. As an isolated, occasionally defensive, hostile response, it wouldn’t necessarily suggest the presence of sociopathy; but as a patterned kind of remorseless reaction it may very well signal the presence of sociopathic tendencies.
In the vast majority of cases, the relatively non-empathic individual reacts with some form of true remorse upon learning he or she has been experienced as damaging, even if it comes as a real, confusing surprise to learn this. Again, the typical response might be along the lines of, “Really? I had no idea.” (reflecting defective empathy) “But I’m really sorry. I didn’t mean to hurt you like that.” (reflecting remorse).
Where remorse is missing from acts that have been experienced as hurtful, we find ourselves in much more seriously disturbed territory. Sociopaths, of course, may feign remorse, although many times not. But feigned, shallow remorse—remorse that serves his self-interest, not yours—is worth less than no remorse.
A chronic theme of weak, or absent, remorse is thus much more indicative of the sociopathically oriented individual than the measure of his empathy. Oddly enough weak, or even sometimes missing, empathy, doesn’t necessarily preclude some form of meaningful connection with another (although it won’t be empathically-based).
But weak, or missing, remorse fatally does preclude such a connection, ensuring only the possibility of a damaging, exploitive experience.
(This article is copyrighted © 2011 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is for convenience’s sake only, not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the attitudes and behaiors discussed.)
Thanks. I did do the wall thing and several other exercises several times a day. I have the clogs and they make me worse-the footbeds are too hard. I have MBT tennis shoes. Luckily this pair I got on a discount website and paid $90 instead of $265. I’m going to have to order a second pair since I stand all day at work and they tell us that we shouldn’t wear the same pair of shoes everyday. I have to wear 20 lbs of lead at work since I’m exposed to x-ray all day, so it adds even more weight to me. I’m trying to get back in the gym to get on the bike until I can get my foot under control cuz I can’t walk yet. I will try the calcium, do you remember if it’s real expensive?
I spent 100 dollars because I ordered the capsules and the powder. It was amazing.
I really don’t like gyms..only the one that I have a lifetime membership to because its Bally’s and it has a nice pool with hottub and sauna by it. It also has an indoor track.
The one I joined last summer, I got bored with. I don’t really like the treadmill as much as walking outside around the lake or up and down the streets.
I got the idea from a woman who was over 300 lbs to decided to go into her backyard and walk around her clothes line….started with 5 minutes at first. She got rid of everything in her house and filled up her kitchen with only fresh fruit and veggies and lowfat stuff. She lost over 110 lbs!!
So, I decided to walk everyday. I love it. I’m addicted. It was only 5degrees the other day…and I bundled up and loved it!! You could only see my nose! lol I have a really warm jacket that covers my butt and I head out and sweat like crazy.
I even rode my bike with 3ft of snow on the ground. I rode on the plowed road!! I’m a diehard for walking now. lol
Walking is the best.
2becop,
I’ve got arthritis in every joint I think From years of rodeo and horseback riding and being clumsy too. LOL
Before you take any supplements I suggest that you talk to your doc about them…and make sure that they are not going to have adverse responses. Excess calcium can cause kidney stones for one thing so you may not actually need more calcium unless you are low in it.
Lots of people think that vitamins are “natural” and therefore that it is okay to take them, but NOT SO, some vitamins, K, A, D and E for example are FAT soluble and are TOXIC and can kill you at high doses or over taking them for extended periods of time in lower doses.
I have just received my “ortho” shoes with professionally made inserts and I am hoping that will help with the heel spur problems. I had a pair of those Dr. Shcools inserts where you stand on the machine and it tells you which ones to get. They were $50 vs $5 or $6 a pair for the regular ones, but they are actually very good and have HELPED the heel spur quite a bit. I used to go barefoot in the house (and even outside) a lot and now I don’t do barefoot much at all. My ortho doc said that the elevation of my heel would help the tendon too, and it seems to have done so.
Looking at the Medical RESEARCH on various supplements and things doesn’t show a lot of benefit in most supplements unless there was a deficiency to start with. A lot of the “joint supplement” stuff shows poorly in double blind studies, and the glucosimine and condroiton (spelling?) which is so highly touted only shows up helping equally to placebo. (sugar pills) I have actually had physicians who took it though.
I try to stick with what is researched as much as I can in medicine and any supplements. I follow directions on medications and watch for interactions. While I spent a great deal of my career helping diabetic patients and teaching them, I’m probably spending a couple of hours a day reading about new trends in diabetes and new research (gosh I love the internet!) and trying to manage my diabetes and my blood pressure, weight and diet well. God knows I neglected my health for years, so now I am doing my best to handle it better.
I go to the physician on a regular basis now instead of “self diagnosing” and “self medicating” with nicotine and excess food…and my sweet young doc was amazed the other day, I asked her why she was grinning at me and she said “I’ve never seen a primary care provider who was a compliant patient before.” LOL
I guess now that I have gotten compliant I am OCD about it, but for so long I took care of everyone except myself, now I am NUMERO UNO on my list of things to take care of!
2bcop, not sure if you can find them but when I was hospital nursing I wore the SAS (San Antonio Shoes) brand of shoes that are hand sewn leather with a cushiony heel (wedge type) and it made a difference. I also wore SUPPORT HOSE which made a big difference in how my legs felt at the end of a shift, so get yourself a pair of TEDS and see if that doesn’t help you. They are about $30 a pair but I got some on sale at Wal Marts the other day for $10 a pair and bought all they had in my size (3 pair) so if I am traveling or walking a lot I wear them now too.
I also suggest that you go to an orthopod and get your foot pain checked if you haven’t so you can know what you are dealing with.
Cut the calories (1200 lowest for a woman) and exercise to increase your metabolism and burn more calories—in a pool or low impact if you need to protect your joints and just take it slow and easy in the wt loss. I’ve lost about 5 pounds a month is all but it is pretty steady so I’m happy with it. I try for 1500 cal but probably eat closer to 16-1800 but it is coming off and staying off and I’m serious about the LIFE STYLE CHANGE from here out. Today my sodium intake was less than 700 mg. and I no longer feel deprived. Also don’t have any swelling in my feet and blood pressure is good. Ate about 1600 calories and burned nearly 2800 though I have sat on my butt most of today except for a bit of bike peddling in the house.
Oh, 2bcop, look up what Aussie Girl said to you up thread on one of the threads about how to respond to the arseholes that are bugging you at work today. It was really good! REALLY GOOD!@.......!!!
Lesson,
I saw that you commented to me on the “O for Umbrella” thread, but that thread isn’t loading for me right now so I can’t read it. It’s a long thread!
I wanted to ask you about your therapy sessions because tomorrow is my first intake session with “Ben”. I’m worried that I’ll sound crazy! Well…you know what I mean! I wonder if he’ll think I’m making all this crap up. Or that I’m paranoid. Frankly, I don’t know where to start. Any suggestions?
Hey sky,
Actually, I remembered Ox advising to ask about the person’s credentials and whether or not they’ve read Bob Hare and Martha Stout’s books. I didn’t do that, didn’t need to because my therapist asked ME FIRST if I’d read WIthout a Conscience” lol!
Anyway, the way I started out was just simple small talk about psychology. Then I just flat asked what he thought of the “concept” of sociopaths/psychopaths. He got it right away. You’ll know whether this person does or not, but it was a nice way to “break the ice” so to speak and I found out A LOT in the first session as to whether or not this was going to work. I worried for the same reasons you are, Sky and I definitely understand, but if this turns out to be a good fit for you and this therapist understands about personality disorders you won’t feel like what you’re saying is crazy and it will be VALIDATED. The small talk about psychology worked for me, and I entered the conversation from an academic perspective because it’s of interest to me as a potential career.
I can’t WAIT to hear about your experience and I will pray for you tomorrow that it’s a good one. There is NOTHING on earth better than a damned good therapist!!
LL
Oxy, thanks a bunch. I used to wear the jobst stockings a lot when I worked in SICU and I probably need to get some more. I really gained 30 lbs in the year since I’ve been at this job and it’s mostly due to stress and lack of proper sleep and how I eat in response to it. I have a really great OB doc who is also my primary care and she is THE best doc of my life. I have hated them all for so long since the ex spath was one of them but she makes it all better. She is wanting me out of this cath lab and has been the influence for me seeking new position and she said to take nights if I have to. She diagnosed me with PCOS and it is a big problem. I am in constant fat storage mode, my hormones are all over the place and I am possibly into premature menopause as well. She doesn’t want to say that yet though until we can get the PCOS under control. I’m glad there’s a medical reason for it so my mother and sisters can finally know that I’m not really lazy and have no self control. It’s hard to feel like your body is falling apart at such a young age. That left foot is bad and my right hip is killing me. I’m so afraid that I will never lose the weight and get my favorite job back. I did find out that the SICU managers are interested in me. I am just praying that some people start returning my phone calls. I am trying to get into ER over where spath works. I have had a two year hiatus from level 1 trauma and I am SO incredibly bored out of my mind that I’m going to die. If they had told me at this job that I would be held prisoner here and not allowed to leave, I never would have accepted it. Anyway, my doc has me on topamax for my carb cravings and after a month she will probably add metformin. I’m going to have to monitor myself with diet and drinking water very well because that combo together could cause acidosis if I’m not careful but it could be the killer combo as far as me losing weight and hopefully I won’t have to stay on them for a long time. I saw a Podiatrist for the plantar fasciitis and did cortisone shot was helped for about three weeks with the inflammation. He gave it in the side of the heel though, it didn’t hurt near as bad as I was anticipating. Anyway, thanks for the advice!
LL,
Credentials, Books and Sociopathy. Thanks, for those 3 topics. I just don’t want to sound like an idiot. But I know I will. If someone hasn’t met a P, nothing I say makes sense.
I’ll keep you updated tomorrow.
2bcop,
Sorry you’ve got some medical problems but in addition to those the bottom line on weight loss or gain is the calories in vs the calories out.
There is a great site called http://www.fatsecret.com that you put in your foods and it tells you exactly what calories and you put in your exercises and it tells you your calories burned for your wieght etc. and it helps me to be OCD about recording everything. Helps me keep up with carbs, fats, and proteins as well. Plus good support there.
Measuring portions and not eating junk and eating 3 meals a day instead of just skipping meals like I was then starting to eat a 5 and eating til bed is helping.
Cutting out the salt has been the biggest hurdle but now I am doing GREAT on that and don’t CRAVE it like I did. I’ve lost 28 pounds over a 6 month period so my wt loss is NOT FAST, but that is okay as long as I am headed in the right direction.
I aim for 1500 calories, but probably go 1-300 over that several days a week, but try to keep enough exercise that I am still not UPside down in calorie intake vs outgo on any days.
I started out aiming for 1500 mg sodium (the American Heart Assoc. Recommendation for EVERYONE) and felt really deprived, now I am usually under 1000 mg and NOT feeling deprived at all. Actually I think I was probably eating 10,000 mg of sodium, and the “average” US diet is like 5-8,000 mg.
My taste buds have adapted and I no longer crave so much salt. I still miss cheese which essentially has a LOT of sodium in it, but I can eat MORE of other things if I leave off the cheese.
I also realize that I AM RESPONSIBLE FOR MY WEIGHT AND MY BEHAVIORS so I am making better choices even if I don’t want to. It isn’t like I don’t KNOW what those better choices are, I just have to make myself do them. I’ll see how my doc visit goes on the heel spur I dread a shot, espeically through the sole of the foot. The one into the tendon was so gosh darned paiinful I was ashamed of the way I CRIED and SCREAMED. He gave it slowly so I got to scream a long time every time he pushed the plunger, but it was worth it, the pain is gone.
Sky,
Will be thinking of you today. Hope everything goes well!
LL
I have not been on here in awhile, but feel I needed to get some support today. I had not seen my ex in 1 1/2 years. He had relocated to southern CA due to his job and unbeknownst to me, returned to the area last summer. He had been promoted in his position to handle the gas line blast that occurred out here. He had accessed my LinkedIn page, which was ok, but he then joined my gym and last Saturday I saw him. He waited for me as I was not sure it was even him and we talked. He was subdued, nice and I told him I was still mad at him. He said he wanted to talk to me about that, although he does not know I blocked his phone number.
Since then, I feel like I have been violated and as much as I want to talk to him, realize that more than likely it would all be a lie. I have put my home up for sale and am really trying to scatter my workouts as to not run into him.
I’m resentful that I feel this way, that he is on my turf and that I have to change everything in my life. While he scums around with his porn pals and plays this subdued character.
I need to hear some tips on how to overcome this feeling. It has been paralyzing for the past 5 days.
Thanks.