Sometimes I like to revisit, churn all over again, a prior concern around sociopathy. A number of colleagues were recently stressing the defective quality of empathy in the more sociopathic clients they work with, while I found myself stressing the quality of remorselessness in the more sociopathic clients with whom I work (and have worked).
In my view, remorselessness is a much more serious indicator of sociopathy than lack of empathy per se. I know I’ve stated this in previous pieces, but well”¦here I go all over again.
Many people lack empathy for a great many reasons, depending on how one even defines empathy. But clearly this is true—many of us have a relatively difficult time emotionally stepping into another’s shoes and genuinely, emotionally inhabiting (as it were) his or her experience; that is, feeling their experience with them, for them.
I’d venture to say that a rather high percentage of the general population fails pretty badly at meeting this pretty classical criterion to be considered “empathic.” Of course, nothing is black and white: sometimes we find ourselves experiencing empathy in surprising circumstances, almost unaccountably; otherwise, sensing that empathy is clearly indicated in certain situations, we might find ourselves in suprisingly, uncomfortably short supplies of it?
And so the experience of pure empathy eludes many of us, perhaps even the majority of us, often”¦more often than we might even want to admit.
However, remorselessness is a whole different kettle of fish. A typical case involving a nonsociopath goes like this. One partner, a good communicator, says to her husband, “What you said to me last night in front of our company was humiliating. You have no idea, I’m guessing, how much that hurt me and pissed me off. If you ever do that again, I swear I may never forgive you.”
Her husband, if he’s really honest, might say, “You know what? I really don’t have any idea. I didn’t see, and still don’t, why what I said was that big a deal. I was trying to be funny. I didn’t think you’d take it so personally.”
This husband, we might say, lacks empathy. We don’t even need to know what he said that aroused his wife’s ire to surmise that, here, in this example, taken from a couples session I facilitated recently, he is demonstrating less than optimal empathy.
But he also added, sincerely, “I’m sorry. I am. I’m sorry I hurt you so much. I won’t do that again.”
His wife was only somewhat appeased by his apology because, while it expressed remorse, it didn’t reflect much, if any, empathy. And she wanted more than remorse. She wanted empathy.
I believe it is entirely possible, even common, to express remorse, sincerely, even in the absence of empathically appreciating the impact of the original behavior for which you are expressing the remorse. This is because, if you are not a sociopath, you can really feel bad for hurting someone even without quite understanding why what you did was so hurtful.
Now, in the example above, the partner chastised for his previous night’s insensitivity could have responded differently, reacting to his wife’s feedback with, “You know what? Too damned bad. So you felt hurt? Well”¦get over it.”
This would be a response not only lacking in empathy but also in remorse. As an isolated, occasionally defensive, hostile response, it wouldn’t necessarily suggest the presence of sociopathy; but as a patterned kind of remorseless reaction it may very well signal the presence of sociopathic tendencies.
In the vast majority of cases, the relatively non-empathic individual reacts with some form of true remorse upon learning he or she has been experienced as damaging, even if it comes as a real, confusing surprise to learn this. Again, the typical response might be along the lines of, “Really? I had no idea.” (reflecting defective empathy) “But I’m really sorry. I didn’t mean to hurt you like that.” (reflecting remorse).
Where remorse is missing from acts that have been experienced as hurtful, we find ourselves in much more seriously disturbed territory. Sociopaths, of course, may feign remorse, although many times not. But feigned, shallow remorse—remorse that serves his self-interest, not yours—is worth less than no remorse.
A chronic theme of weak, or absent, remorse is thus much more indicative of the sociopathically oriented individual than the measure of his empathy. Oddly enough weak, or even sometimes missing, empathy, doesn’t necessarily preclude some form of meaningful connection with another (although it won’t be empathically-based).
But weak, or missing, remorse fatally does preclude such a connection, ensuring only the possibility of a damaging, exploitive experience.
(This article is copyrighted © 2011 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is for convenience’s sake only, not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the attitudes and behaiors discussed.)
Petitie!
Have a good time, but will miss you! Post when you get back, K?
Shabby, thanks. They told me they’d give me a lidocaine shot prior to procedure. I think just the reasons for it being done bother me more than the procedure itself, along with what the doc’s office said today about the mammo/US results.
I’d be happy to know they are WRONG WRONG WRONG about what they THINK they’re seeing, say they’re seeing. That would be BOMB!
I can’t speculate, even though I speculate lol! Just have to ride the wind right now, wherever it blows, I think…..
Doing the minute to minute, hour by hour right now.
LL
Dear LL
Thank you for your post on Jan 30th 10;38– just what I needed.
Catfish showed up last night at a club I have frequented for years. Never seen him there before. Coincidence????NADA.
I have heard through the grapevine that he has said “I broke his heart” and that I am a “player”. Right. I played right into his BS but I’m a qiuck study and knew things were not RIGHT.
I called him out on everything. He told me I had to many RULES. It’s called moral compass.
Unlike you I am not really angry at this pitiful creature—I still feel the tug at times however after 3 months I am less and less having “feeling” about him. It’s really difficult to explain but even seeing him last night was like looking into a void. As though nothing really existed as if he were a living ghost. A dead person that is inhabiting a human body by proxy.
The only interest I have in these people is to try to avoid them.
I’m here reading everyday. even though I do not comment. All things considered I feel I am doing well.
Stay Strong, Stay Safe and Stay Sane. I am Seeing Clearly Now.
Peace.
Hi petite, sorry I missed you last night, I went to sleep
a few minutes after I posted.
I sure know about the missing him,
time has been my friend in this case, I don’t
think about him constantly anymore, just most of the time! LOL
Give yourself time to grieve, when you are ready,
you will stop missing him, it takes a while to accept the
whole situation… you are doing the same thing we have all done.
Plus we start looking at everyone we meet and wonder if they are normal or not,
we’ve changed, as Dances said… and YesItsMe just mentioned that the other day.
I think the part that WE are changing is one of the toughest parts of the whole thing. Give yourself time, you’ll start feeling better!
I am so happy to hear you are going to be spending time
with your mother and sister!!
That will keep you busy and hopefully get him out of your head a little bit!!
I think we miss “what could have been” if they were decent/good people.
SeeingClearly, I know what you mean,
when I have seen the toxic slime
and the lies start pouring out of his mouth
without so much of a blink… I feel like I am
looking at a specimen in a pitre dish,
they just have a human form, it’s like the movie
Men in Black, if you poke one… the alien pops out.
Their bodies are pods for the evil inside!!!!!!!!
Seeing Clearly,
You’re welcome.
Mine use to tell me that I always changed the rules. I didn’t know at the time that this was projection.
I’m having a hard time this morning. Thinking about him a lot. Thinking about what has been. Trying to resolve this in my mind. What’s hitting me now is how fake it all was. How easily he is able to be a chameleon. It’s like my brain is trying to land back into reality. So classic. He moved on without a hitch. I remember early on in the relationshit, calling him on this very chameleon like behavior. I didn’t understand it at the time. He’s one thing at home, another with me, another at work. The impact of that reality is hitting home this morning. Is he creating chaos and drama everywhere. There is one thing that stands out to me in bob hare’s book. I can’t recall what page it’s one, but sentence stands out, “If he’s caused you grief, you can be certain he is doing it to someone else”. Something to that effect.
I’m truly struggling with this “idea” that he’s changed for new gf. And he has in a way. He’s a chameleon. He’s everything she wants him to be. How can you go from one woman in three weeks to another, having sex? A new relationshit? He never ever did that with me. Being all I wanted him to be. He did that at home and he’s doing it as a single man elsewhere.
Would it have been different if I wasn’t the OW? All the love bombing? I was love bombed, but in a different way.
Even though he’s being everything she wants in a man, I wonder, does his core stuff change too? The little quirks I saw that were outrageous? The victimy shit?
This causes me so much anxiety. This very thought. That somehow, I just wasn’t good enough, as were these other women to get what he’s giving. I know, intellectually, that this is crap, but my heart and mind are having a hard time wrapping around it all.
Part of me thinks things are lala land for he and she. Then part of me thinks, oh man I’m so glad I’m not apart of that anymore, because her introduction into his life will create so much chaos and drama in pitting new gf against the wife and triangulating with his children.
I need a reality check, please.
LL
LL, g’morning.
Reality check coming up!
People like this have always existed, they are what the legends of vampires and witches were based on. They live on a different plane of existance than we do.
In the past, people were terrified of them and didn’t understand their mesmerizing power over mere mortals. This was attributed to magic and evil.
Now we have a better understanding of them and realize that the magic is inside us and the evil latches on to the magic and tries to steal it.
It’s not really magic, it’s the complexities of human nature and evil is just another word for selfish, narcissitic. envy – a product of immaturity.
We can’t relate to them, we can only try to recognize when we are in the presence of one of them and then escape. I feel so much pity for that poor new gf. Her heart will be torn out, but hopefully she’ll survive and become brand new, just like you are doing.
LL – i still have that small and receeding voice of ‘i wasn’t good enough for a pyscopathic bitch who sucked me in and sucked me dry and lied lied lied about everything, including her gender, name, age, family, life experience, creating drama after trauma that i so patiently supported her though; and it was ALL a lie.
it is ridiculous, isn’t it? not good enough for a lying spath piece of shit.
i ignore that voice – it’s old bs programming. can’t be anything else, because it is so blatantly untrue.
i know you are scared about your health – so think of this as a default program in you – you are afraid, so you are thinking more of him. ask yourself why. what is the connection? fear to fear? wanting to be rescued, supported? write the answer out until you really hit on it. then just keep telling yourself the truth when fallacy arises.
Dear LL:
Ditto all Skylar said
CF(catfish) told me about a former GF of his and although he is still in contact with her he told me to stay clear of her. hmmm wonder why?
I recently introduced myself to the former GF. She knew all about me. We had a little chat. She is far worse off than I will ever be. She has no clue what she is dealing with. I will clue her in as I get to know her better. She seems to be a very sweet yet fragile person. I hate it for her. Lots of crap going on in her life. Y
Yeah, your former SP might be lovey dovey right now but the woman is in for more than a ride in the hay.
These things don’t have broken hearts—they have no heart.
See it for what it is A DEVIL IN SHEEPS WOOL PULLING IT OVER ON YOU SO YOU GO BLINDLY TO THE SLAUGHTER HOUSE. No thank you KISS my …..
Stay Strong Stay Safe and Stay Sane.
Going to get a power nap now PEACE to all
I am Seeing Clearly Now
Dear Petite,
Your “long distance” relationship with B was more in your MIND than it was a realilty.
I had a “long distance” relationship with my P-son, and it was IN MY HEAD AND MIND not real. Just I thought about him, made up a fantasy that he was “in my life.”
He was NOT in my life though, it was just my own CONSTRUCTED FANTASY, and your relationship with B was the same way, it was CONSTRUCTED out of your feelings of what you WOULD BE in the future and then the FEW times you actually spent with him, counted in HOURS in reality, were just part of that fantasy you built up.
NOW you can see that this “fantasy” man that YOU BUILT OUT OF E MAILS and your own DREAMS is a MYTH—he does not exist at all. Instead there is a man in the same profession as you who is a CHEATER on his wife, who lives in another country (which would almost preclude you two getting together professionally even if he were REALLY prince charming!) who only confessed his MANY AFFAIRS to his wife when he gave her a STD and HAD TO CONFESS—then he went to counseling (he said) for years to try to repair the marriage, but then said that SHE ruined it by “paying him back” with an affair of her own. WELLLLLL, DUH?????? So it is all her fault huh? She ruined it by “paying him back.”
That is like the little kid saying to the teacher “Teacher, it all started when JOHNNY HIT ME BACK!”
This man did not respect his wife, and if he had respected you and really wanted a respectful and good relationship, he might have said, “Petite, I really like you, but I am still living with my wife, and though I PLAN TO GET A DIVORCE, I do not want to disrespect you, me or my wife, by having an affair with you.”
Instead, he said “Pooooor me, my wife is a witch and doesn’t make me happy, so lets jump into bed when we see each another at conventions and go on trips together afterward, cause if my wife finds out I’m sleeping with you it will cost me more money in the divorce—and actually I’m staying because of my kids and my finances, but it’s okay for us to sleep together—and oh, by the way, I have to sleep with her too because since we are married I AM OBLIGATED TO SLEEP WITH HER.”
Now, Petite, I KNOW how smart you are, and how outstanding you are in every way, but you WANTED to believe what he was telling you because you wanted so badly for your FANTASY to come true even though there was EVIDENCE that he was NOT “Prince Charming”—-
Your DREAM is like Aussie Girl said, WONDERFUL, and OK and GOOD, I have the same dream and I think everyone of us here has a dream of a person to love them and be intellectually compatible and compatible in interests and activities, etc. Your DREAM is the same dream we all have. Maybe it may be more difficult for you to find someone in the SAME LEVEL and SAME LINE of business you are in since there are NOT MANY PEOPLE in the entire world on the level you are in your profession….but having the dream doesn’t mean you can give up the ESSENTIAL PART of that dream which is that the person you want (to love and to love you) must be an HONEST PERSON.
So if you start with a list of what a person you want has to be, make the list start this way.
1. AN HONEST PERSON (if they fail on this #1 thing, don’t look at the list of their qualities any further because they are AUTOMATICALLY disqualified even if they are 100% on in the next 9 things.) This would exclude drug addicts, thieves, ex-convicts, people with many marriages/relationships and divorces in their back ground, people who didn’t support their kids financially or emotionally etc. liars and serial cheats.
2. About your age (you probably wouldn’t want someone 30 years younger or 30 years older either)
3. ABOUT your educational level and intellectual level (Now here if you make it he must be ONLY in the SAME level and at the SAME job as you, it may limit your choices right there to 8 or 10 people in the world so you might want to think about widening this consideration.)
4. Financially stable (I don’t think you would want someone who had a million in debt or was living under a bridge in a homeless shelter)
5. Someone who is kind, caring, compassionate, and has manners.
And so on, you can complete the list for yourself.
The bottom line of the entire exercise though Petite is that if the person fails #1—the HONESTY TEST—then NONE OF THE REST MATTERS OR IS APPLICABLE.
How can B be “honest” when he would cheat on his wife with multiple women for sex? How responsible a parent is he if he brings home STD to his children’s mother? How much did he learn about compassion for others if he will sleep with his wife and with you and then try to tell you he is OBLIGATED TO SLEEP WITH HER BECAUSE THEY ARE MARRIED? Laugh! Yea, I know he backed down on that later but I do not believe him. HE LIED TO HER, he also LIED TO YOU is my guess. I don’t need a crystal ball to “see” that he is a liar not only to her, but to you and other women as well. Just because he “told you” and was “honest” with you about him being a liar and a cheat, doesn’t mean he is HONEST ABOUT ANYTHING….even a clock that is stopped “tells the truth twice a day.” LOL
BTW have a good trip with your mom and sister! (((hugs)))
One “i know you are scared about your health ”“ so think of this as a default program in you ”“ you are afraid, so you are thinking more of him. ask yourself why. what is the connection? fear to fear? wanting to be rescued, supported? write the answer out until you really hit on it. then just keep telling yourself the truth when fallacy arises.”
you hit on it. Whenever I’m afraid I think of him more. Whenever there is a crisis, I think of him more. He was “there” for me, at times, during major crisis. Yes, wanting to be rescued, supported. Wanting what he’s giving to new gf and what he gave to his wives.
“Then keep telling yourself the truth when fallacy arises”
What is the TRUTH One?
What is the truth when she’s getting it all and I”m sick with nothing?
I know i”m just babbling….I want to stop thinking about this…I feel lost without him.
And that really sucks. I think I need more of a reality check here. Thank you guys for creating some thought for me.
Seeing, what you’ve said here is helpful too. It would be nice to know that the asshole is doing to someone else, what he did to me.
LL