Sometimes I like to revisit, churn all over again, a prior concern around sociopathy. A number of colleagues were recently stressing the defective quality of empathy in the more sociopathic clients they work with, while I found myself stressing the quality of remorselessness in the more sociopathic clients with whom I work (and have worked).
In my view, remorselessness is a much more serious indicator of sociopathy than lack of empathy per se. I know I’ve stated this in previous pieces, but well”¦here I go all over again.
Many people lack empathy for a great many reasons, depending on how one even defines empathy. But clearly this is true—many of us have a relatively difficult time emotionally stepping into another’s shoes and genuinely, emotionally inhabiting (as it were) his or her experience; that is, feeling their experience with them, for them.
I’d venture to say that a rather high percentage of the general population fails pretty badly at meeting this pretty classical criterion to be considered “empathic.” Of course, nothing is black and white: sometimes we find ourselves experiencing empathy in surprising circumstances, almost unaccountably; otherwise, sensing that empathy is clearly indicated in certain situations, we might find ourselves in suprisingly, uncomfortably short supplies of it?
And so the experience of pure empathy eludes many of us, perhaps even the majority of us, often”¦more often than we might even want to admit.
However, remorselessness is a whole different kettle of fish. A typical case involving a nonsociopath goes like this. One partner, a good communicator, says to her husband, “What you said to me last night in front of our company was humiliating. You have no idea, I’m guessing, how much that hurt me and pissed me off. If you ever do that again, I swear I may never forgive you.”
Her husband, if he’s really honest, might say, “You know what? I really don’t have any idea. I didn’t see, and still don’t, why what I said was that big a deal. I was trying to be funny. I didn’t think you’d take it so personally.”
This husband, we might say, lacks empathy. We don’t even need to know what he said that aroused his wife’s ire to surmise that, here, in this example, taken from a couples session I facilitated recently, he is demonstrating less than optimal empathy.
But he also added, sincerely, “I’m sorry. I am. I’m sorry I hurt you so much. I won’t do that again.”
His wife was only somewhat appeased by his apology because, while it expressed remorse, it didn’t reflect much, if any, empathy. And she wanted more than remorse. She wanted empathy.
I believe it is entirely possible, even common, to express remorse, sincerely, even in the absence of empathically appreciating the impact of the original behavior for which you are expressing the remorse. This is because, if you are not a sociopath, you can really feel bad for hurting someone even without quite understanding why what you did was so hurtful.
Now, in the example above, the partner chastised for his previous night’s insensitivity could have responded differently, reacting to his wife’s feedback with, “You know what? Too damned bad. So you felt hurt? Well”¦get over it.”
This would be a response not only lacking in empathy but also in remorse. As an isolated, occasionally defensive, hostile response, it wouldn’t necessarily suggest the presence of sociopathy; but as a patterned kind of remorseless reaction it may very well signal the presence of sociopathic tendencies.
In the vast majority of cases, the relatively non-empathic individual reacts with some form of true remorse upon learning he or she has been experienced as damaging, even if it comes as a real, confusing surprise to learn this. Again, the typical response might be along the lines of, “Really? I had no idea.” (reflecting defective empathy) “But I’m really sorry. I didn’t mean to hurt you like that.” (reflecting remorse).
Where remorse is missing from acts that have been experienced as hurtful, we find ourselves in much more seriously disturbed territory. Sociopaths, of course, may feign remorse, although many times not. But feigned, shallow remorse—remorse that serves his self-interest, not yours—is worth less than no remorse.
A chronic theme of weak, or absent, remorse is thus much more indicative of the sociopathically oriented individual than the measure of his empathy. Oddly enough weak, or even sometimes missing, empathy, doesn’t necessarily preclude some form of meaningful connection with another (although it won’t be empathically-based).
But weak, or missing, remorse fatally does preclude such a connection, ensuring only the possibility of a damaging, exploitive experience.
(This article is copyrighted © 2011 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is for convenience’s sake only, not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the attitudes and behaiors discussed.)
Ox Drover;
And people wonder why my mother refuses to retire…
GREAT ARTICLE – STEVE !!!!
Unfortunately mine is short on empathy and definitely NO REMORSE – or he could never live with what he’s done – the remorse should be eating his guts out.
A few years ago my boss lost her husband suddenly from a heart attack after cutting the grass. STBXH worked with these two people also, they were our age and I felt horrible for her. His only comment was shallow and left me at a loss for words.
This was always the case – even with family members.
But as you say , empathy can often be hard to come by .
Now the remorse – I haven’t seen a bit of that – not for anything he’s done to me or the kids.
And there definitely seems to be some glazed look that comes over him when he is confronted about something.
Not sure what it is – but when confronted the eyes glaze over, he kind of shakes his head and then the lies and twisted truth starts.
We had a 17 ” snowstorm yesterday and when I got up he was next door digging out his girlfriend. I later remarked to him that my son has been breaking his butt along with me with all the snow and his answer was “That’s because YOU SEND HIM OUT TO DO IT ! ” Yet – HE took all the snow tools, took the snow blower that worked and left a broken one for us. And there he is – digging out his skank – right with my son in the window – all the while knowing she wasn’t about to go to work but I HAD TO !!!!
Does he feel bad ? Not at all ! Our daughter has rods in her back and you would think he would go out of his way to clear the walk before she gets home from school. He’s around the corner , He’s not working, I go to work every day and can’t clean the snow up until I get home. – by then it’s ice .
I understand he needs to punish me – but my children ?
It really makes my stomach churn ……no remorse ….is he even human ??
Now my brain is really on tilt.
My emotions however tell me that my ex husband was a spath if lack of empathy is the marker.
I think I based my comment on something I recently read in a book as I have read so many that they all run together. I thought one of them said (The Hare or Stout book) that the marker for NPD was lack of empathy and the marker for Sociopathy would be lack of conscience. Maybe I am confusing conscience with remorse. On the other hand conscience seems more like empathy.
I have an autistic daughter who is very low in her speech ability. I think where they sometimes get confused with spath’s is that they can read people really well. She does have a conscience though as she can “sign” I’m sorry.
I used to believe I shared a brain with her……well not really but I had to learn to read her and try to imagine what she might be thinking or feeling. EMPATHY?
I am just now, after all of these years, waking up to the fact that my mother doesn’t have a clue what other people feel like. She just doesn’t want “people to think that I don’t care” to quote her.
My BF was a text book Con which made me sure a lot of what he did was pre-meditated. My ex H probably had less empathy than anyone I know. I thought he was being passive aggressive. I now now that he was very sadistic. Does he have remorse? Sometimes he seemed to. There were a couple of really unforgivable things he did that he had tears in his eyes when he said he was sorry, one was tearing up my dead daddy’s Bible, and the other was calling me ugly the night he left for good.
TTS
Newlife,
What he was doing worked.
WHAT was he doing?
He was working hard to pith you off and it worked.
He wanted you to know that HE was in control of whose walk got cleaned and whose didn’t. He took the working and good tools because even if they are legally yours, he feels that he has a right to them.
He knows you will see that this GF’s walk is cleared and see that yours isn’t and have to do it yourself. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. You don’t think for one moment that those kids of YOURS are any less in need of punishment than you are do you? And, what better way to punish you than by punishing them. Right out of Psychopath’s play book, chapter 2.
Dear True to self,
There is still professional disagreement about the terms psychopath/sociopath/antisocial personality disorder, but in general for the purposes of this blog we call them any of those three names and mean the same thing.
As far as a personality disordered person (whatever name) has little or no empathy and little to no remorse for what they do.
However, EMOTIONS CAN BE FAKED so when a person who is high in traits of a personality disorder they try to mimic the outward displays of “emotions” like remorse etc that they have learned to have some idea of how a person feeling that would act, including fake tears. Believe me though, it is simply GREAT ACTING, without any real emotion or feeling behind it. It is simply one more of their tools for manipulation to make us trust them.
Let me ask a question please…..
Can a spath ever have a breakdown as in get depressed, anxiety or a complete break with reality?
My ex H did this twice. The first time the doctor put him on some kind of anti-anxiety drug as he couldn’t take the anti-depressant because of his job. It had been coming on, I know, but what he ended up with was a phobia of snow. I don’t mean like the rest of us have a healthy fear of driving in the snow, but I mean a phobia.
At the end of our marriage he seemed to have a phobia of me.
I had given him the benefit of the doubt because I thought his personality had changed. He was a hoarder and I hadn’t bought anything in two years because I was trying to get out of debt. When I seemed to be attacking his “stuff” the only thing he could attack was my Bible collection and my Nutri-system food.
He was a verbal abuser so had already used every slutty name in the book. I didn’t believe those because I knew they were not true. On the other hand he had always accepted me at what ever weight I was at.
On the night he left I felt raped. I was standing in the bedroom half clothed and he started calling me ugly. He just kept saying over and over as if looking at me for the first time. “You are so ugly.” “You make me physically sick. I got tears in my eyes. He then looked at me and said “Don’t use the sympathy card then it will be my fault”
He had agreed to leave the next day, so I locked myself in my daughter’s room who wasn’t home at the time, and he left the next morning. When he came by for some reason later in the week, he apologized. I told him at another time months later that he had broken my spirit. He seemed to “get it”, but then later on that also escalated. The day he came to get his stuff which was actually two years after the separation, he was calling me all kinds of fat names, along with worthless. My mother thinks it was demonic regarding the Bible. I don’t. I think the words of the Bible are holy but not the paper. I did sit down with him and try to explain to him though that if he had something that belonged to his grandmother that she had made and had her name embroidered on it by her, would that not be more valuable to him than a same item he had purchased at a thrift store. My dad’s Bible had his name on it, plus all of his underlining and notes. H had thrown it and a few others in the trash. I fished them out and showed it to him saying “How dare you?” He then proceeded to rip it up. He apologized to my mother later.
I am having some sort of meltdown right now. I cannot believe I actually lived through all of this. I can’t believe I kept trying to explain things to the POS.
TTS
I agree with many of the previous posts. They can *say* anything. And they can fake it.
Observe their *actions.* I’m not talking about sending flowers and cards. I’m talking about how they INTERACT with you.
A genuine person will try not to continue to hurt the ones they love. A sociopath will use the knowledge of your weaknesses to his or her advantage.
OXY – DEAR ONE –
OMG ! Are you really saying he needs to punish his own children ?
WHY ??? I know my daughter doesn’t kiss the ring or much speak to him so she is persona non grata. But my son ? The little walking heart is faithful to his dad . I’m sure if he stopped kissing his ring my son would get the same treatment as his sister – but would the N/S need to punish him now ?
Oxy – you have triggered a nerve here – I do think – when we were together – the more I, myself , loved him and supported him – the more contemptuous he became – although it was passive -aggressive.
As in – smile at me and say inside ” Screw you, wife of mine. I am on my way to my SKANK ‘S house – you just don’t know it. “
DENISE
YES YES YES
He moved things all the time. And he also broke my things – accidentally on purpose. I collect old porcelain – sugars pots, creamers, plates , Chocolate pots and old jugs. The jugs were outside at the edge of the back stairs. My kids were toddlers and the only one to ever break one was him.
Plates- OH – sorry – somehow they just seemed to jump off the wall when he was around.
Moving things ? – he loved to torment and scare – still does it.
I would serve the dinner- and when I went to sit down one of the plates was missing. Pictures turned upside down – did it to his mother too .
I was always looking for things -especially keys and glasses that we all sometimes can’t find. And none of my distress
ever moved him to help me look for anything – like he was entertained.
Now this should really sicken you all :
He and my son put a video out on YOU-TUBE . ” The Cinnamon Test”
Disney dad actually filmed my 12 yr old son trying to swallow a heaping teaspoon of cinnamon powder – My son choked, puked, coughed, spit, eyes watering – and the whole time loving dad was laughing hysterically while filming.
I was crying when my son showed it to me- now he would accuse me of having no sense of humor – but I was horrified. My son took the cinnamon into his lungs while trying to catch a breath and then it all packed in the back of his throat. This can’t be normal – but he would call it “guy humor” and tell me I just don’t “get it .”
So I ask – What don’t i get ??
Denise,
Your husband seems to be just like the guy in the 1930’s movie “Gaslight” You do seem to get what he is doing though. The problem with actual passive aggressive behavior is that it is hard to prove that they did something on purpose or made a mistake.
My first husband pretty much ignored his daughter. I had spent years protecting her from the “institution”. She is an adult now with autism and does live in a really good group home, but in his words she should “be behind bars”.
When I met my second husband, the Bible ripper, I thought I could relax because he seemed to be good to my daughter. I wonder now though. I think he bored her as he just took her places with him that she would not have found interesting. She could not really protest, and other people including her group home staff thought he was a wonderful caring person. They did forget though that he had a habit of being late when it came to picking her up, making them wait.
I think I actually spent my entire marriage now trying to teach him empathy.
When I said I was having a meltdown earlier, I think it is because I tend to figure things out intellectually long before the true horror of things hit me and I finally feel them on an emotional level.
What your husband did was cruel. There is no doubt about it.
We should put my ex husband and yours on an island together and see what happens. Your’s would hide my husband’s stuff. He was the type of hoarder who couldn’t stand to have things moved.
Are you new? I am not sure because I have only been here for a month myself. They are capable of hurting children or ignoring them or teasing them. It really seems that no one is safe from their abuse.
TTS