Sometimes I like to revisit, churn all over again, a prior concern around sociopathy. A number of colleagues were recently stressing the defective quality of empathy in the more sociopathic clients they work with, while I found myself stressing the quality of remorselessness in the more sociopathic clients with whom I work (and have worked).
In my view, remorselessness is a much more serious indicator of sociopathy than lack of empathy per se. I know I’ve stated this in previous pieces, but well”¦here I go all over again.
Many people lack empathy for a great many reasons, depending on how one even defines empathy. But clearly this is true—many of us have a relatively difficult time emotionally stepping into another’s shoes and genuinely, emotionally inhabiting (as it were) his or her experience; that is, feeling their experience with them, for them.
I’d venture to say that a rather high percentage of the general population fails pretty badly at meeting this pretty classical criterion to be considered “empathic.” Of course, nothing is black and white: sometimes we find ourselves experiencing empathy in surprising circumstances, almost unaccountably; otherwise, sensing that empathy is clearly indicated in certain situations, we might find ourselves in suprisingly, uncomfortably short supplies of it?
And so the experience of pure empathy eludes many of us, perhaps even the majority of us, often”¦more often than we might even want to admit.
However, remorselessness is a whole different kettle of fish. A typical case involving a nonsociopath goes like this. One partner, a good communicator, says to her husband, “What you said to me last night in front of our company was humiliating. You have no idea, I’m guessing, how much that hurt me and pissed me off. If you ever do that again, I swear I may never forgive you.”
Her husband, if he’s really honest, might say, “You know what? I really don’t have any idea. I didn’t see, and still don’t, why what I said was that big a deal. I was trying to be funny. I didn’t think you’d take it so personally.”
This husband, we might say, lacks empathy. We don’t even need to know what he said that aroused his wife’s ire to surmise that, here, in this example, taken from a couples session I facilitated recently, he is demonstrating less than optimal empathy.
But he also added, sincerely, “I’m sorry. I am. I’m sorry I hurt you so much. I won’t do that again.”
His wife was only somewhat appeased by his apology because, while it expressed remorse, it didn’t reflect much, if any, empathy. And she wanted more than remorse. She wanted empathy.
I believe it is entirely possible, even common, to express remorse, sincerely, even in the absence of empathically appreciating the impact of the original behavior for which you are expressing the remorse. This is because, if you are not a sociopath, you can really feel bad for hurting someone even without quite understanding why what you did was so hurtful.
Now, in the example above, the partner chastised for his previous night’s insensitivity could have responded differently, reacting to his wife’s feedback with, “You know what? Too damned bad. So you felt hurt? Well”¦get over it.”
This would be a response not only lacking in empathy but also in remorse. As an isolated, occasionally defensive, hostile response, it wouldn’t necessarily suggest the presence of sociopathy; but as a patterned kind of remorseless reaction it may very well signal the presence of sociopathic tendencies.
In the vast majority of cases, the relatively non-empathic individual reacts with some form of true remorse upon learning he or she has been experienced as damaging, even if it comes as a real, confusing surprise to learn this. Again, the typical response might be along the lines of, “Really? I had no idea.” (reflecting defective empathy) “But I’m really sorry. I didn’t mean to hurt you like that.” (reflecting remorse).
Where remorse is missing from acts that have been experienced as hurtful, we find ourselves in much more seriously disturbed territory. Sociopaths, of course, may feign remorse, although many times not. But feigned, shallow remorse—remorse that serves his self-interest, not yours—is worth less than no remorse.
A chronic theme of weak, or absent, remorse is thus much more indicative of the sociopathically oriented individual than the measure of his empathy. Oddly enough weak, or even sometimes missing, empathy, doesn’t necessarily preclude some form of meaningful connection with another (although it won’t be empathically-based).
But weak, or missing, remorse fatally does preclude such a connection, ensuring only the possibility of a damaging, exploitive experience.
(This article is copyrighted © 2011 by Steve Becker, LCSW. My use of male gender pronouns is for convenience’s sake only, not to suggest that females aren’t capable of the attitudes and behaiors discussed.)
Ox,
I don’t need a large print bible now that I have new contacts and better vision :). The one exPOS bought me is a beautiful study bible, NIV. But I just can’t read it. Can’t touch it.
Sky, I have the book people of the lie. I did start reading it, but then put it down. Something about it at the time, creeped me out. I”ll dig it out again. I heard that reading it through is scary for what the true meaning is. Maybe it had something to do with exPOS that I couldn’t deal with it.
Interesting: Spaths are false idols that demand us to worship them.
I sooooooooooooo agree with that and it’s a good way to put it too.
i’m really struggling with the “their evil” concept. A lot of flashbacks are coming back to me now, even in facial expressions he gave, that were not of compassion or understanding but of mere amusement in seeing the pain I was in. Either that or utter contempt. A lot of what he did, felt like a constant set up. I think my mind/body knew that and that’s why I was trying so hard to extricate. HOw is it possible that someone could want to just hurt you for entertainment? I don’t understand that and it’s very painful to realize that I gave ten years of my life to that. Some of the most intimate details of me he knows about and carries around with him. Yuuuuuuck…and there isn’t a damned thing I can do about it. I’ve said it before, but will say it again, maybe in getting out, having been the OW was better than the x wife. It doesn’t look so good for a new victim if you tell them you cheated on your ex for nine years with another woman. He didn’t tell love bomb about me either, jsut made himself the victim of exwife 2.
Piece of shit.
Thanks a bunch, Sky.
lesson learned,
I second what Ox Drover, and Skylar say – get a copy of the Bible and read the gospels, possibly the NIV version (there are obviously other versions of the Bible, being able to select one that you connect with). I don’t always enjoy going to church (and I grew up the daughter of a minister) on a regular basis, but I will read the Bible, feeling comforted by what I read – it speaks to me. As we step closer to God, He will draw closer to us. Just pray away. There’s a book that I am still reading called The Power of Positive Thinking, by Dr. Norman Vincent Peale that I enjoy reading, finding that it helps in getting the idea across to me that God loves us (in a healthy, non-abusive kind of way), wanting to help us live out our daily, everyday lives. Jesus is tops – by reading about Him (the New Testament), you can get your own perspective about what kind of person He was (and/or is). If anything, the awful experiences that I’ve had (courtesy of the spath and other abusive people) has made me more authentic (I have been broken down inside), not putting on a front for anyone.
Aussie-I went to work today and managed to hold it together although I did cry briefly during my first EP case but my patient was sedated so she didn’t know the difference. I was scared, anxious, and extremely uncomfortable all day long. I was nauseated and shaking while trying to draw up medicines. The supervisor who talked to me yesterday was a little hostile when I told her that I spoke with counsel and wanted a meeting with the two bosses above her. The two bosses above her managed to put me off all day today and conveniently not talk to me about it so I was upset. I was crying to daddy on the phone after work. The boss said that before she talked to me that she wanted to talk to the staff and get the facts first. Translation: I’m going to give all the little psycho bitches time to get their stories straight and make sure all their ducks are in a row. My stepmom is going to call me tonite and my dad is afraid that they will get all crazy on this because of what happened in Arizona recently and either terminate me so they don’t have to deal with it, or offer me the choice to resign or be terminated. I don’t understand how that should be right when I DID NOT do anything and this is all based on their sociopathic lies. Do people not worry about lawsuits for wrongful termination, slander, or defamation of character? THe only problem is, that they were cunning enough to know that this is a hearsay thing. It
s he said/she said. I will be guilty until proven innocent!
LL,
I gave it 25 years so I know what you mean. You feel like it was a waste, but I’m determined that it hasn’t been a waste. Not if we can extract from the lessons, more than the tuition it cost us. Not if it turns us into the people we were meant to be, better, more present in reality, more aware, and as BlueJay said, “more authentic”.
It took 25 years but the window that the spath’s lies opened for me is amazing! I see everything that I experienced throughout my life with new clarity. It’s because I understand evil now.
Before, I thought evil was some scary demon that literally bites you. I didn’t know it was something that takes you from the inside out. It’s a form of decay.
It begins with stagnation as it suppresses your ability to grow and become who you were meant to be. Then it turns into rot and decay.
My exP was really turned on by decaying things. I figured this out way after I left him, but there were clues.
Thanks so much dear dear Oxy.
this email has helped me a lot to bring meo ut of my fantasy where I do tend to slip back and forth.
the list of things I want in a man is the most important and I see your point if he is not honest, even if he is more than 100% on the other points, this guy cannot be the guy for me.
thanks for reminding this to me. I do feel I am in kindergarten at this stage, this post of your explains it very well as to why I should not yearn for that dream with him in it.
will remember it all the time.
just like I remember the example of the rat poison that you shared with me.
Your examples are very clear and bring us face to face with reality.
thanks.
I am much better than 5 days ago, when he left and I was weeping to you on the telephone. feel a bit stronger and coming out or seeing thru the fog every day I wake up.
petite
((((((((((((( Petitie!!! ))))))))))))))))))))))
You’re so lucky to be able to talk to Oxy. I WISH I had a friend like that in real life that understood that I could do that with. YOu are SO blessed!! But more so, you’re deserving of something so GOOD for yourself. I can’t tell you how proud I am of your progress and that everytime you post it inspires me to do better.
On so many levels, you are blessed, Petitie. You don’t need an asshole to ruin it for you.
You’re a wonderful, intelligent, caring, lovely woman.
Ox doesn’t have toxic idiots for friends.
I just KNOW you’re going to make it just fine!!
LL
dear LL,
Oxy is always giving us the best advice and has our interest at heart. she and the posters here try their best to make us newbies understand that it was a dream – enough is enough, come out, live in the present and find positive things in our life.
It is us newbies who don’t listen and keep slipping back into the dream and look for answers for the why’s and if’s, until we finally realise, there is no answer, we were duped, we were conned, we went head over heels for the guy and it was all a game for him.
maybe for you – time with your children, meditation. prayers will make you strong.
you are a strong woman LL< look in the mirror everyday and say it again and again to yourself – I am strong, I am strong, I will remain strong for myself and for my kids, I will not allow some jerk to take my strength away. It will be mine forever.
keep calm and stay strong.
petite.
Petitie,
Intelligent reflection and willingness to face myself is helping.
Perhaps my illness is also accelerating the process here. I just had a major revelation today posted on another thread.
I’ve also had something else happen today, but don’t want to share it just yet, as I feel I need to give it some reflection and thought before I do, if I do at all.
While I’m in a lot of pain, I DO know and have faith, as I pray day in and day out, for God to continue to reveal to me things I need to know about myself and what the TRUTH about my situation with exPOS, that things will eventually turn out as they are meant too.
I’m calm and at peace, Petitie.
I hope this post finds you the same 🙂
BIG BIG HUGS!!!
LL
I am at crawling pace and taking it hour by hour, day by day.
which thread did you post your revelation for today.
all the word salad is so draining on our brains.
I suggest you wrap up the Bible and other things which remind him of you and put it in the storeroom, out of sight does help a lot in the healing phase.
petite
Thanks Petite, and LL, glad that the musings make sense to you. I’ve bee a great “life coach” for others and a PITH POOR one for myself because I didn’t put what I KNOW into practice FOR MYSELF. Just like with me letting myself gain so much weight. I KNOW better than that, but I was in denial—“Oh, it’s just a pound or two, no big deal” or just like my eating too much sodium! COULDN’T be the salt! LOL
So now I am trying to PRACTICE WHAT I PREACH….to take care of myself and to be the kind of person TO ME that I wish others would be. I was always expecting too little of others and too much of myself and actually NOT DOING what good things I knew to do, living in denial, and thinking others more deserving of my kindness than I was but you know. I DESERVE MY OWN KINDNESS…and you deserve your own care, kindness and good things. So go out and do something GOOD FOR YOURSELF!
My son D and his friend and I spent the evening (it has been snowing all day so we did get a nice snow) cutting out and sewing “diamond flies” (a kind of back packing tent that only weighs about 6 ounces. The material is as light as fine silk and about as difficult to sew as it slides all over the place, but we have the first one seamed together and two of the edges hemmed and the other two edges ready to hem, then we must put reinforcements in 5 places around each edge for grommets, and on each corner, along with ties sewn to 16 16 places in the middle and the 4 corners and the places on each side. Then we must make a combination ground cloth and hammock to go with it.
We laughed and had a good time but this is not going to be an easy or quick job as it takes 3 of us to iron the seams and pin them and takes all 3 of us to pull the fabric through the machine. It was kind of fun to do that though.