Editor’s note: The following article was sent by the Lovefraud reader who posts as “Jov77.” It is actually a letter that Jov77 received from a former friend, who he now believes is disordered. Jov77 has stopped contact with this person. He’s looking for help in making sense of the letter. (The comments in parentheses are explanations by Jov77.)
The letter below was just given to me from this friend I have been closely associated with for some years now. I had numerous challenges in the friendship which left me drained and exhausted so I wrote a letter expressing some thoughts. In the letter I did not ask him for anything in relation to making the friendship better. This person is disordered in character but there are traits that are sociopathic. He might even be a socio based on what he revealed about himself to me over the years.
He wrote:
To be honest I don’t remember all that was said on the paper to me in writing, but however, a line that I remembered you said that, “God. He is the only one can help me.” (I said to him that only God can help in our situation.) To cut everything short it is not that I don’t appreciate you as a person or a friend. It’s just that at times I have to make my own decisions and mistakes. I can’t be always taking advice from you. How do you think am gonna make the right choice in life for myself. I have made some crucial decisions in life where I have gained knowledge from them and experience also, where they let me become as hard as stone on the outside but on the inside I am a human with feelings and emotions and they are pretty much alive. (After almost four years now, I am yet to see those feelings and emotions that are alive. He will help people in a big way. If that is referred to as feelings and emotions alive then I can’t question it.)
(This is a 28 yrs old man saying): I was young and inexperienced even up to last year. I might speak mature but a part of me was still a child and even though we have not said much to each other for the past couple of months it helped me a lot to become a man to look back at some of my relationships that broke up. I was struggling in them. Reason being. Knowing right from wrong and claiming that I am serving God and still chose to do the wrong. I was fooling myself and been a damn idiot; that was why when we spoke I said that I can no longer be fooling myself and others and play games. (The right from wrong and fooling self meant that as a church man and leader in the church he was still sexually promiscuous and toying with the head and emotions of females both in and outside of the church. He is in training to be promoted to the highest position at his church. That might have brought about some consciousness on his part.)
I appreciate you as a person and a friend. Not because you never hear me say it. Also, your attributes — you did not throw them like pearls to be trampled upon like a pig; but to say that the affection you show me at times it is way too much and it makes me think different.
You are a good friend and also a good person and for me I appreciate that about you. But also, I want to say I’m sorry if I hurt you in any way that I know about. I am asking you for your pardon — and that which I know not of, I am asking you also for your forgiveness. In life we all make mistakes some we do know and just do care about, others we just didn’t see it as hurting someone. Just to say it is a part of life and we make them but I am simple saying thanks for your open arms in my times of need. I appreciate it and yes I appreciate you. And, also thanks for been a good or a wonderful friend or person to me when I was not to you.
It is a confusing letter. My ex-spath liked to write letters like this when she wanted to manipulate me. But the first thing I notice here is the words “I’m sorry.” My ex-spath NEVER apologized for anything on her own, only when I pointed out she ought to apologize. She had no concept that she should be sorry or apologetic for anything because, in her mind, nothing she did – no matter how awful – was wrong.
I suppose the only true test of anyone, though, is through observing their behavior. Someone who cares about you acts like it. If this person’s future interactions with you do not reflect what he says here, then these are just words and nothing more.
Jov7 – Many sociopaths specialize in “word salad.” They toss words around, and the words don’t really mean anything. Remember, sociopaths use words to manipulate, not communicate. I think you can disregard the entire letter. Make your decisions based on the behavior you observed and experienced, not on the words.
Excellent advice, Donna.
Jov77,
This is a confusing, jumbled, and unclear letter. As for the ‘I am sorry’. I was apologized to. It means nothing. I would continue to follow your gut feelings about this person, and evaluate him according to all his past actions, and not his confusing attempts to draw you back into a conversation about mistakes, growing up, redemption, forgiveness, etc…
Using this language seems more like an attempt to highjack deep christian principles, rather than express his personal experience or regret. If this is the language and ideology you live in, then what better way to manipulate you, and make you feel ‘guilty’, if you do not extend yourself in a christian-like manner?
I am sorry to hear that he is being promoted. He must be pretty good at keeping his facade up, and fooling the leaders of this church. Sad….
Slim
I agree with Darth,Donna, and Slimone, and will add a bit to their observations. The letter was difficult to follow. With my pseudoWife the issues are clearly defined as we discussed her interactions with men constantly while we were dating. When she had no other options because I was ready to end the relationsham, she would offer up what could look like an apology which was wrapped in subtle justifications or overt presumptions to condescend to teach me moral or ethical lessons. Like Darth said. She has only apologized 3 or 4 times, and her actions have proven hundreds of times over that She Is A Liar and her apologies are nothing but manipulations and lies. My pseudoShepherd at my place of worship deceived me, was conflicted in his interest as he was himself engaging in exactly the kind of behaviors that I came to him for help with. After repeatedly lying to cover over his actions probably a year or so later he asked to meet me Alone. He was smug, aloof and condescending. He gaslighted me telling me an entire series of events ” never happened “. When I held my resolve and began elaborating the minute details and quoting him he subtly backpedaled. Anything that he thought he could twist and rationalize or justify he dug in firmly on, excusing and minimizing. Anything else he conveniently ” had no recollection of whatsoever “. He claimed to come to me to apologize only because he was basically forced to, continued to behave in a unethical, highly manipulative manner, refused to accept any accountability or to make any real amends . As such there was no resolution to the issues but only the fascade he offered to hide his entitlement and to shield him from accountability. Sound familiar ?
“Relationsham”—I nearly read clean over that word! Then I did a doubletake and read it again. Nice word, I like it! 😀
Jov77
Any attention whether negative or positive given to a sociopath is still attention and a crucial mistake. Run don’t walk and don’t stop to look behind you! God Bless
Dear Jov77
Appearances are deceiving. IMO, he is not asking for forgiveness. He is asking to not be held accountable.
I was married to a very cruel man for a lot of years. I learned to pay close attention to his “apologies”.
Your friend does two things that stand out. 1) He distances himself from his actions. Notice that he does not actually apologize for anything specific that he did. He has YOU fill the the blank – “IF he hurt you in any way??!! (a sign of avoiding true accountibility.) Such vagueness about the wrong done reveals that he’s not truely acknowledging his regret.
and 2) He excuses himself, esp in the phrase “we all make mistakes”. This is a way of equalizing YOU to be the same kind of cruel person he is, at the same time trivializing his behaviors/choices as “a mistake”. Again, he’s avoiding and this is not a true apology.
SPECIFIC Regret, remorse, repair. These make up an apology and are missing in this letter.
(Personally, it seems to me he just wants you to stop being mad at him and go back to giving him the benefit of your company. He also flatters you in this letter; there’s a reason for flattery, and btw, there’s a reason for his pity play too. been there. done that. paid the price, over and over and over.)
Hello Everyone,
Donna. Thank you for posting the article. Let me say a big thanks to you all for the comments made. In reading the comments and advice from you all I could clearly see that the messages followed the same trend consistently. Great minds think alike and my thoughts too were flowing along the same line.
The first thing about the letter for is that it is disconnected and disjoined. Its message is unclear. Based on how well I know him I knew he was not being really authentic. As some of you have observed the apology was not genuine. Some time in the past I had to demand an apology from him. When he finally got around to apologizing he used the same “If I hurt you.” Immediately I stopped him and told him that I did say you hurt me. He then changed the apology to something acceptable.
Another think too is that a big portion of the letter was about himself. He barely addressed the issues I had with him. And there is some generalization instead of addressing things specifically. At the end of the letter he wrote: “There is no need to reply in writing.” Do you see the manipulation? I am not to respond in writing because what he really wants is for me to agree to have discussions with him.
Since my “no contact” I have been seeing improvements in my life and there is a desire within to keep away from him. Again, everybody’s comment was worthwhile and I appreciate it. The no contact remains in effect.
Once more thank you all so very much.
Regards
Jov77
Just to add.
Donna you are right about “word salad.” Once you try to have a heart to heart conversation with him, or a conversation that has to do with emotional matters, his live conversation is jumbled or scattered all over the place. And it takes so much energy to keep him on track or connected with the topic at hand. The first paragraph of the article “Communicating with the disordered” posted July 13,2013 explains it well.
My impression is the same as everyone else’s. The letter is indeed confusing and disjointed, and that alone could hint at the disrupted thought processes often found in psychopathy. Among other things, the allusion to the famous metaphor of “casting pearls before swine” seemed itself a kind of “pearl,” an ornament planted clumsily in the letter because the writer thought it sounded impressive, but had no feel for just how stylistically incongruous it really was in this context.
As for having feelings and emotions that are “pretty much alive,” I had to ask “Pretty much alive? Is that the best he can manage?” It’s what I might expect someone to say whose emotions are actually half dead!
I must say it would worry me too if this guy is headed for the “highest position” at his church. (Unless that’s a cryptic reference to being “bats in the belfry”!)
Redwald, thank you for my morning chuckle today!!! LOVE the imagery of ” bats in the belfry “… yes…hanging works!!!! xx