Editor’s note: Lovefraud has received another question from Andrea, who wrote in a month ago. If you have any suggestions for her, please share them.
I am looking for some strong advice on how to help my children deal with their father ”¦ my ex ”¦ who is a sociopath. We have been divorced for 4 years and I have been terrified of this man. Not so much physically, but more just afraid of his bullying and threats. Even though people have told me that his threats are just words and he cannot follow through on them, it is still hard when he is so confident that he is so right and I am so wrong. I have tried very hard to take the high road through all of this and he falls in this gray area between legal and illegal, but suffers no consequences. I have been told that once I stop letting him get to me, he will get bored and move on to someone else.
Recently, I have broken free of his hold and I don’t care anymore. I’ve started living my life and doing what I want. I’ve met a new man who was in the Marines and is an avid hunter. My son has expressed interest in hunting and went with him one day. My ex found out about it the night before and went insane. He told my son that he forbade him to go, but I told my son that he was with me and I was allowing it. My ex started calling the house at 1:15 in the morning and called for about an hour. I tried to talk with him one time, but it was ridiculous. He told me he would stop paying child support and would fight for sole custody if I let him go. (Wish I had that all on tape). Anyway, I let him go because there was no danger, he had an apprentice hunting license, and he was with me that weekend. Now my ex has decided to bully my son. It has been horrible. He is now threatening him and scaring him with things that he can’t possible do. Even though I try to explain to my son what he’s doing, it’s too hard for a 12 year old to comprehend. My son is withdrawn, angry and scared. He won’t talk to me very much, so I don’t exactly know what he’s thinking or how to help him.
How can I help my son (and daughter eventually) not suffer? Has anyone had any similar experiences? My biggest fear is that my son will just give in to my ex and do what he says to keep the peace ”¦ to get positive attention from his dad. The worst case scenario would be my son moving in with him when he’s 14 (something that my ex is working on because he knows it will hurt me). How much should I tell my children? How can I help them? We already have a pact that anything that happens at our house stays between us ”¦ terrible, I know ”¦ but it’s the only way to keep them safe (emotionally).
Thanks for any advice I can get.
Henry and James,
Yes he was a real weiner! And I love the generic name for Viagra! Soo funny!
My P set all his friends up against me.
Also he set his dysfunctional family up to hate me (and I mean HATE me), so by the end, when we fought (that was most days), I would say to him, ” If you do the wrong thing by me like you say, I will back up later on and GET all of your family” ( I didn’t realize at the time that he only cared about his family for narcissistic supply). He knew me well enough to know that I would never do such a thing. And he would say, “how come you won’t GET me?”
I always said, ” you are so desperately unhappy deep down, and I know that you always will be. So I will leave you alive.”
Then he would go real quiet for a long time.
Now I pray that I was right about that.
It is very difficult to combat these people when our children are involved. My P ex-wife, who lives across country without my kids, is involved heavily in enmeshment and spousification of my 13 y/o son.
For a couple of years now I have gone the route of communicating only via email and text. Still, she does not respond to my messages on a timely basis claiming her email account is broken, that my messages go to spam or she is too sick to respond. Even after the judge slapped her for lack of communication, it continues.
My new wife and I see a therapist regularly. Although our visits started as therapy for my children, we see her more often to discuss how to deal with the P, she is a Disneyland Mom. We are told to not attempt to keep up with her, keep doing as we do, love and care of the children and they will see it all when then get older.
It is scary dealing with these people, because you just can’t put anything past them. No conscience, no guilt, no shame, no remorse.
Unfortunately, my P just won’t go away and give in to the fact that she lost custody (or majority of parenting time), even though she brought the motion for custody. She is out to annihilate me financially.
Children are pawns in these peoples’ lives. In my case, they are her decorations and possessions.
Try to stay strong, limit contact. don’t answer his late night calls. The further you can get away emotionally the better.
AKA Bob:
You have custody of your kids? The courts awarded YOU custody, and not the mother?
How did you do that, if you don’t mind me asking.
My brother is in a very tough situation right now. He is married to a psychopath. They have a 5 yr. old daughter together.
The mask has slipped, and “psycho mommy” has become increasingly abusive to both my brother and the child.
I am especially worried about my niece.
Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated.
What is enmeshment and spousification?
Rosa,
Enmeshment is a hard thing to describe in a few words. Google it and there is a pretty good description online.
Rosa,
Enmeshment is excessive interdependency and involvement between family members. This is a degree of involvement that crosses reasonable boundaries, but the people involved may not realize the boundaries exist at all. This is a hard one to pin down. You know it when you see it.
Spousification is when a child is treated by one of the parents as a marital partner. This can involve sexual intimacy, but usually doesn’t. It just means that the parent is going to the child for the emotional and practical support a healthy adult would be getting from his/her spouse.
Enmeshment vs Close – Lemme see…
Enmeshed 1- teen daughter tells Mom everything. She doesn’t mind that Mom reads her diary, ’cause Mom knows everything anyway.
Close 1 – Teen daughter confides in Mom when she wants or needs to. Mom doesn’t read her daughter’s diary, ’cause she’s confident that her daughter will confide in her when appropriate.
Enmeshed 2 – Coworker regularly patches up arguments between husband and wife. Husband tells coworker all, wife tells coworker all, no one finds this odd.
Close 2 – Coworker sometimes becomes privy to husband’s concerns about how to be a better spouse. Coworker gives advice when he thinks he has something to offer, but never mentions these conversations to the wife when the couple invites him over.
Enmeshed 3 – Father is obsessed with his teen son’s performance in track and field. The two train together, the father drives the boy’s long hours of training and is present for all track and field events. The father discusses everything the boy does presently and could do in the future with the boy’s coach. The coach doesn’t tell the boy what he should do or how he should do it. It’s easier just to discuss it with the teen’s father.
Close 3 – Father encourages his teen son’s interest in track and field. He trains with the boy occasionally, an sometimes gives advice. He’s glad the boy is interested in track and field, but sometimes queries the boy about what other sport the teen might try. The father tries to be at as many of the teen’s events as possible, and makes sure his son has transportation to every event and practice. The father is acquainted withe the teen’s coach, and occasionally makes supportive remarks to the coach or asks how he might help.
In the context of this site and cluster B personality disorders, it’s good to understand that many of us have accidentally become enmeshed with cluster Bs instead of close. If this is the case, it is probably because we had a sort of blurred understanding of the difference between close and enmeshed. This is nothing to be ashamed of, because the precise location of the dividing line is hard to pin down. It’s only when a relationship has moved well over the boundary between enmeshed and close that it becomes obvious there’s a problem.
Enmeshed vs Close
In my case, I handled all the correspondence for the S ministry leader I volunteered with. I had assumed this was a temporary situation. After all, I had given him a very good used computer loaded with all the software he needed. My husband repeatedly volunteered to set up this computer. We repeatedly encouraged him to log on to his own email account and do his own correspondence. To the frustration of his peers, they corresponded with him knowing full well that I read every word and composed every response. Since none of them knew me very well, this was something they bitterly resented. Many of them belonged to misogynistic denominations, so having me know what was going on in their “exalted circle” really miffed them.
From my point of view, I would have loved for him to get of his dead rear and do his own correspondence. I wanted the ministry to succeed, and him communicating with other ministries was key to that success. The communication would have been a lot smoother if i hadn’t been “in the loop”.
That was enmeshed. It thoroughly infuriated me, but it was either play it his way or give up. He would not get of his dead rump and learn how to use a computer. Eventually I gave up, but not over this single issue. He was an S, so by the time I got PO’d enough to give up, there were more issues than I could count.
Elizabeth Conley:
Excellent description.
.
With S, I was doing it all. Trying to solve his legal problems. Trying to keep a roof over his head (financially and legally). Trying to get him new Federal and State identification. The list was endless.
The other day a friend of mine said “I used to get so pissed off watching you. He didn’t life a finger to help himself.”
And she’s right. I was completely enmeshed. Problem was I had to either play it his way and give up. Too bad that week we were going to Greece I didn’t give up. I should have just told him that it was obvious to me that HE had legal problems here in NYC he had to address and that I had decided it was best if HE stayed here and took care of business and I would pull the trip insurance on his ticket and go by myself. Alas, I didn’t. And boy did I pay.
I often wonder if I had done that what he would have done. I guess I will never know.
Matt,
“Alas, I didn’t. And boy did I pay.
I often wonder if I had done that what he would have done. I guess I will never know.”
Y’know Matt, I beat myself up for nearly 6 months. I guess it’s my vanity talking, but I felt like even though he had obvious problems, I could have made things work if I had only acted or spoken more cleverly.
Now I’m not so sure I could have succeeded by being more clever. I just realized that one of the things he most resented was my competency in various areas. This was the real reason for his incessant put downs.
As a consequence of my leaving the ministry, he was obliged to take over teaching my martial arts class. He took pains to tell my students that they were badly instructed, but lucky. He was there to save them. Well, I just the class demonstrate their achievements at a school open house. The quality of the martial arts training has slipped so badly that they’ve actually lost significant ground since I left. This is in spite of the fact that the S is a far more talented, experienced and credentialed martial artist than I am. He’s a great martial artist, but an unusually lousy instructor. He used to rag on my instruction techniques incessantly. There was not a moment’s peace while he was around. Now the truth is there for anyone who’s able to see.
The point is, doing better at anything, including managing my relationship with him, would not have saved the situation. He would have resented any competency I displayed. That includes the ability to get along with him.
He used to start stupid stuff just for the heck of it. There would be a couple of weeks of peace, and then bam. The theme song of these bizarre dramas of his was “Let’s Get it Started” by the Black Eyed Peas. I love the Peas, but I used to hate his sorry little head games with a white hot passion.
….
In this context, there’s no disrespect, so, when I bust my rhyme, you break your necks.
We got five minutes for us to disconnect, from all intellect collect the rhythm effect.
Obstacles are inefficient, follow your intuition, free your inner soul and break away from tradition.
Coz when we beat out, girl it’s pullin without. You wouldn’t believe how we wow shit out.
Burn it till it’s burned out. Turn it till it’s turned out. Act up from north, west, east, south.
[Chorus:]
Everybody, everybody, let’s get into it.
Get stupid.
Get it started, get it started, get it started.
Let’s get it started (ha), let’s get it started in here. Let’s get it started (ha), let’s get it started in here.
Let’s get it started (ha), let’s get it started in here. Let’s get it started (ha), let’s get it started in here.
Yeah.
… Yeah – there’s more. Thank God I’m not dealing with it any more!
Elizabeth Conley:
“I just realized that one of the things he most resented was my competency in various areas. This was the real reason for his incessant put downs.”
It took me a long time for me to make that connection. I’m not living the high-life by any stretch of the imagination, but, I’ve worked hard for what I’ve got, and I worked hard to accomplish what I did.
S was constantly putting me down. I now see that his goal was to undermine me every step of the way — by destroying my faith in myself and my faith in what I accomplished and could accomplish he was subconsciously manifesting his own contempt for his own screwed up life and his subconscious realization that he was pretty incompetent. The fact that I was willing to share with him what my accomplishments had come to bear completely eluded him.