Editor’s note: The following was submitted by a Lovefraud reader whom we’ll call “LouAnn.” She had no choice but to deal with a psychopath.
1. Psychopaths need stimulation. They like “fireworks.” Don’t give it to them. Either do not respond to them at all, or give them very calm, professional responses. This is called “non-reward” and it will become much less fun to bully you.
2. When you do respond, respond slowly. Psychopaths need instant gratification. Making them wait for your response is not fun or stimulating for them.
3. Consider not telling them about the damage they have done. They may be secretly finding glee from hurting you if they are in revenge mode, or may find satisfaction from completing some other agenda. Don’t give them that satisfaction.
4. Find out where THEY are vulnerable. For example, they may have narcissistic tendencies and want to appear a certain way to certain groups of people. A threat of damage to that may be enough to make them back down. My psychopath likes to work with the police departments and hospitals as an expert. A restraining order slapped on him might not completely stop him from bothering me, but he knows a restraining order would embarrass him, so just the threat of that has made him back down in some ways.
5. Pray for them. They are haunted by many demons and intense prayer can make a difference.
yeah first red flag, goodBYE
mite be me being overcautious, but IT MITE NOT.
no ones worth being in hell.
I am wondering with the betrayal bonds…if they are also formed with the spath person?…through all the trauma they create are they mentally and emotionally bonded too????
Hey, good point. Check my second of two long posts below. You’re onto something. Is the spath also ensnared in the “betrayal bond”? Hmmm. I mean, yeah. They’re addicted to playing the game again and again. Rat goes for cheese; repeat. The strange detail of the story I tell is that my “Black Widow” actually stands to LOSE a chance at money by playing for other kinds of “points.” . . . It occurs to me that that’s why we often observe them being really, really stupid, inept, losing more than they gain even as they succeed exquisitely at causing damage and drama. They just don’t see outside their narrow field of vision: cheese, cheese, cheese.
I mean the third one. Hee hee. I get a little verbose here! . . . See the “Black Widow” story, below.
oh MY
I think u’ve nailed it
this is my babydaddy spath
WOW
Thanks! For telling me I’m not just imagining things.
Sociopaths don’t bond. They don’t see any difference between a person and an object. They get addicted to what they get from their victims, such as money, shelter, drama, pain (they are sadistic), and duping delight.
so theyre as addicted to us as we are to them!
no wonder theres all that getting back 2gether drama.
its not love requited finally, its the hit craved for so long, rushing into their system, filling their identity-voids.
wonderful, i am a crack-rush :\
well, makes sense, regardless. life is unfair sometimes. thats life.
They are addicted to the things that they can get from their victims. They don’t bond to a particular person. When a sociopath doesn’t get what he wants from one victim, he can easily move on to another victim without any regrets.
Yes, we victims are just supply to them.
Skype messaging conversation with someone, surreal. Nothing like watching a sociopathic conversation in slow-mo. I even pointed out to this woman I was speaking with that she was a sociopath, and she seemed to have no response to that. Chilling. I immediately blocked her. She’s was married to someone famous who died (and I think she had more than a little to do with that, not murder, but leading him into absolute ruin while pretending to be the victim as well). And rumored to be a little nuts. Wrong: Not crazy at all — perfectly in control of her manipulations. I blocked her.
Here’s the interesting part, if there is one: She has been manipulating a mutual friend of ours, who is an alcoholic. I tried to talk some sense into him, but he’s too far gone. She used his grief over the death of her husband, his friend, to build an alliance with this man.
Her late husband was involved in something controversial and took a heroic stand against being bullied around publicly. She says she’s continuing the fight, but honestly? I am beginning to wonder if she was planted by his enemies, to destroy him. I want absolutely nothing to do with anyone even remotely tainted by that suspicion.
There’s no talking another person out of dealing with a sociopath, is there? The spath just turns everyone they have contact with into monster versions of themselves. It happened with my aunt, a sweet, soft person married to a complete spath.
This woman is going on a rampage as I write this, going after another friend of mine, who sees right through her. I told her basically to take a hike, blocked her immediately, and have heard in the past few hours that she’s calling up everyone, to no avail. I am the one with the trusted reputation, not her.
But how to talk to someone who is still in the control of a sociopath? Because this other guy doesn’t get it. He was so close to her late husband, he can’t disconnect. I just yelled at him. NO WAY am I going to let him treat me with disrespect, just because this person has control over him. That’s not him, that’s the spath speaking through him. I’m standing firm, feeling absolutely nothing for the spath, but intense failure over trying to save this man from the she-tiger. Support out there? Help!
well ive never tried to tell the spath he was one. was waaay past caring wen i figured it out.
trying to tell the narc he had NPD got me blameshifting, projecting and even a bit of namecalling. so, not productive. not surprising, mind you, but of no value.
if they are wat they are, they wont recognize it — or care, if they do recognize it.
its wat makes them disordered.
and u can only educate someone who’s caught in the lie of abuse. u can’t “shake them” into disconnecting. u can be consistent in ur support of them wen they vent to u or cry out for help (even if they dont take the help u offer–to leave) and u can be consistent in wat the solution is–to leave COMPLETELY.
but u cant save them, only they can. wen theyre ready. otherwise, it’s a exercise in futility.
u are not failing him, u are maintaining ur boundaries while repeatedly offering the life preserver to the drowning man or woman. (not getting angry at *them*, not shouting, would work better). if they bat the preserver away and even get angry at u for throwing it in their reach, u just keep tossing it back at opportune/teachable moments…wen u notice their weariness or despair.
its heartrending, but if they want to sink, we can do no more.
Telling them only enrages them more, because your pointing out a flaw and they fear being flawed or at fault, and will instantly tell you its all your fault or that your the one with the disorder.
The few who actually realize something is wrong and want help are the only ones who may be worthy of staying in a relationship with, and even then it will still be rough.
Do the very best you can to GO NO CONTACT. Pat yourself on the back for every day that you are NC. It is difficult at first, but you have all of us that will be your support and cheer you on. I can’t even begin to tell you how wonderful these people have been for me. I truly thought I was the only one with a crazy ex. I would think in my head “This can’t be happening to me” all the time. I had a really hard time, but with God’s grace, prayers, family far away, friends and this very special place, I am much better today.
They want control. Don’t give it to them. Love yourself more. You can do it.
I agree totally Out of There. You can start to reclaim your life for YOU. You can’t reason with them and they continue to lie and cheat so respect yourself as a normal person and stay away. Run away! It’s 35 days for me now and I’m feeling better each day. I’ve had texts and even phone calls with nobody speaking then hanging up. It’s tempting to try to find out what the S/P is up to now, but just remember they’re fakes anyway. I imagine eventually everybody leaves them, both friends who trusted them and usually the many lovers who also trusted them. Instead of giving the benefit of the doubt for 7 years I should have trusted my instincts. I was trying to defend myself when he shifted the blame to me instead of sticking to the point – his lies etc.
I don’t know if all these responses are to my comment . . . I agree that one must get “out of there” when faced with a sociopath. My question, which at least one person responded to, was how to talk to someone else who is in a sociopath’s lair without realizing it.
Actually, the clear response to my question was the person who said you can only stick by them and wait for a teachable moment, throw them the life preserver, watch them wave it away, throw it again. It would have been wonderful to have that opportunity. However, he responded so ridiculously, so pompously, that I realized he was part of the problem rather than the clear victim. He was still trying to lure me back to him — and the she-spath who was controlling him — even as of this morning.
That’s when I went “no contact” on HIM, the victim of the spath. Not a happy ending. I left him in the cage with the tiger, and intend for that decision to be final.
Hi sistersister. That is the frustration for me – trying to help the current and future victims. I tried and succeeded with one victim, but only because I knew her address. He said she was his ‘friend’s’ wife. Later I found out, to my embarrassment, she isn’t even married. She wouldn’t believe me. She thought she was being clever buying airline tickets for my husband, paying for everything for him, his phone, his (always failing) African business and committing adultery with my husband (we’re separated now thank goodness). Trouble is she didn’t know he had many more victims at the same time. He gave me a Christmas card and present, told me he had to work away for 3 weeks through Christmas and New Year and went straight to her (and others when she wasn’t looking). He is a really, really good liar and very manipulative. 2 months’ later I received a letter from her. She said ‘your warning at Christmas came too late – he owes me at least 1,000 euros plus breaking my heart when he gave me the silent treatment when I didn’t have more money to give him.’ Which was the same way he treat me. She said she feels stupid now. She’s a teacher and very intelligent but he fooled her. She said, in retrospect, she noticed how important money is to him. He saw her big house and 2 cars and pretended to love her. She found him a job but he only lasted a few days. He wanted her to pay for everything and him not work, just like I did. He never contributed one penny in 7 years and I was foolish enough to let him. Another woman he was with also put money in his bank account and said they could live together. I know her email address etc. but they are still in touch and she probably still believes him. If I tried to warn her, she would go straight to him and believe his lies against my truth. The ‘teachable moment’ is all you can wait for, but if they don’t contact you how do you know when they’ve realised the fake has stolen their hearts, money etc.? I am now in contact with his ex mistress. We compare notes and the amount of lies are ridiculous. He told her I’m a real bitch. Then came back to me and told me the same about her. We can be strong for each other. I bear no grudges against her even though I’m his wife and she’s only one of many of his mistresses. This is because I see them all as victims of a nasty internet (dating sites/social media) predator. We should be able to go to the police to stop the never ending chasing and lying to innocent victims of this awful unfeeling man.
I totally agree with that decision. If the victim is acting spath-y then pull out. If he were in the water and headed for a whirlpool in spite of ur best efforts, u would start rowing away while u have time, or u would be dragged down with him.
EACH person is responsible for himself. We can offer help, but we have to step back wen it becomes dangerous for us, esp if we have other responsibilities. And even if we dont there’s nothing romantic/heroic about suicide, once the hero/heroine’s body lies cold dead. Romeo and Juliet were about 15yo and STUPID children, not romantic. The Viking warrior’s wife, once he had gloriously died in battle, slept alone & cold, struggling to raise his children alone ~bleh~ Living is the true heroic act.
Yes, as hard as that decision is to stick with, I’m helped by the fact that he is also the victim of a sociopathic social movement as well. I have been in the awkward position of reporting his activities to other friends in our work. In effect, I have been betraying him, but I have been firm about wanting no part of this other movement’s schemes. His penchant for falling for sociopaths has put me at risk of association with these people, and yet he kept defending it. I’m not going back to his constant proselytizing for this movement.
I had a thought this morning that if I could expose the “anchoring” technique being used on him, he might wake up. But I have lost all will to do anything.
I’m feeling physically ill, and I realize that it’s because of being under constant “psychic attack.” I just want to go somewhere, I don’t know, anywhere. . . . Join an organic farm or a commune or something, and just escape this horrible, narcissistic, cannibalistic, trivial city and even country. There is nothing good left. No room for me.
Now here’s a separate observation, which is running through my head at 2 a.m. I wonder if this sounds familiar to anybody.
Black Widow, whom I believe to be a sociopath, actually runs from constructive solutions. She even tried to rationalize her way out of my offer of access to some high-level Manhattan attorneys. These guys are history makers. The mere chance to get close to one of them should have had her manipulating me to get there — not arguing against it. (I refused to introduce her if she didn’t clean up some her act with the do-it-yourself “affidavits” and dramatic episodes.)
Instead, she has no interest in that. None at all. Not even with millions of dollars potentially on the table as her reward.
She’s more interested in manipulating our mutual friend, probably for emotional reasons. I guess spaths seek their thrills in different ways. This one has no interest in money, believe it or not. She gets off on power alone.
Black Widow controls my friend by some kind of grounding in a powerful experience — his former friendship with her dying husband. I’ve never heard anyone hear speak of that “anchoring” technique, but I hardly think it’s rare for a spath to do that. It’s even mentioned in dating books as a way to make a relationship succeed: Get them going back to the same pleasurable memory, again and again. (Kind of cheap advice, but it can also be natural and honest.)
I believe my friend is very suggestible that way. He tried to take those trips down Memory Lane with me, and while I found it nice, I wasn’t quite so distractible from the present moment and its problems.
Besides, I believe he’s more likely to be the patsy in that game than the master of it.
If I had been more into “anchoring,” and of a spath turn of mind, I might have manipulated the heck out of him. I wasn’t interested in that, not even to get him to go to rehab. Stupid me, honest to the end!
Black Widow isn’t so ethical.
What does she get out of this? She loses every battle as the “lone nut” out there trying to clean up her husband’s posthumous reputation. She stated to me that she looked forward to losing, “lol.” Excuse me, “laughing out loud” at losing the battle? Extreme victimhood behavior, going for that same “reward” long past its ability to gain her anything important. What she gets is control over our friend, dinging that little bell in her own pleasure center. The rat keeps going for the cheese.
I went “no contact” on her first, then him. Because if he’s controlled by that, he’s as good as gone anyway. Black Widow’s game is stronger than tequila, for sure. I pointed out to him recently that he has a thing for people who are “lost causes.” (I’m not a total loser, so he just lies about helping me.)
Anyone ever experience this? (1) A spath who wins by losing and even gleefully loses out on money if it means tripping off some other pleasure center in their brain; and (2) A game of “anchoring” people in intense memories. When it’s time to tell the truth and be in the present moment, the spath escapes to that beautiful sunset you watched together. Alternatively, they bring up the time you helped your dying friend, her husband.
What is especially chilling for me is that I am lying awake wondering if that’s what really did her husband in. He had an absolute devotion to this woman, I’ve heard. He loved a spath who made him feel great for being the righteous martyr. So addicted to drama that she basically killed him. And I wanted to help Black Widow! I HAVE helped her, already. It feels so creepy. . . . And now I get to feel creepy about not rescuing my friend from her. But he’s, yes, a “lost cause” himself now. I am absolutely heartbroken and inconsolable at this. An alcoholic, yes. A bad person, no. He’ll be dead before the year is out.
The silver lining in all this is, for me, and only for me: I tripped off this whole conflict by being generous, insightful, loving, enthusiastic, and turned on. It sort of dislocated something in the whole sick dynamic. Boy oh boy, do the animals in this nightmarish zoo let you know about it when you stop feeding them negative vibes! The challenge is not to get dragged back down into it just to shut them up.
Any experiences with “anchoring” out there?
Sistersister, I know this sounds selfish, but you need to put yourself first and not the friend who is being manipulated. Keeping all of this drama going in your own life will bring you down. If I were in your position, I would just cut them all out.
I believe giving and receiving are exactly the same. They are two sides to a coin. If you are giving to someone who can really appreciate you and receive the gift readily, then the giving benefits both of you equally. However, if the person cannot receive it and puts up roadblocks, then the giver will become drained and will eventually feel resentful that they are not appreciated. So….move on and give to someone who sees the value of what you have to offer, with no reservation. It is not your job to save everyone in a bad situation. Some people are not ready or do not want to be helped. Why spend precious energy on them?
I have noticed that for every dramatic relationship I cut out of my life, several new people or experiences move in to fill the gap. I don’t miss the negative people at all. Nor the drama.
Sistersister, I just read a few of your posts. While I can’t remember the term anchoring specifically before, I do have a few thoughts that may be helpful and hopefully relevant. One of the sites that was very informative to me is called decisionmakingconfidence or something close. There are some really solid ideas that are similar to what you are explaining here. Some have to do with ways that cult leaders and other psychopaths use to guide and influence decisions covertly. NLP I believe, is the term that describes some of the guided, trance-like states that these masters of manipulation use. All of this falls into some kind of hypnotism or mind control but not necessarily in the Hollywood portrayal. I think that the psychopathic “bond” that many experts including Dr. Robert Hare speak of is made up of several of these techniques. I can tell you that while I was dating the sociopath playing the role of my wife that I had two separate encounters that I firmly believe now were some kind of trance-like states that she guided me through. I can tell you that both times it was crystal clear that I suddenly was coming out of a state of feeling completely unaware of the people around us. It felt like the conversation we were having was so incredibly authentic and spoke to the depths of my soul. I felt completely safe. It was beyond pleasant. As I was reconnecting with the realization that I was sitting at an upscale bar and that I had lost myself for several minutes of our conversation she both times claimed to have shared the experience with me. We were so engrossed in the conversation that everyone else disappeared. I even told friends about it. This was the most incredible connection I had ever had. Not so much. By the way I know how all this stuff and the sheer scope of it all can be exhausting. It takes it’s toll. That disenfranchised mentality is exactly what many of those looking to groom others and to hook them into these cults are looking for. At least that’s what I’ve read. Hope some of this helps.
Interesting, and thanks for the reply. I didn’t have those experiences with these two individuals, but I must admit being fairly charmed-to-death on a couple of occasions by the alcoholic I consider more of a victim than a perpetrator. We just had a certain chemistry. I’m not willing to join him in his demise at the hands of a spath; that’s the only reason I’m bailing.
I haven’t heard of NLP being used in this unethical manner before. It also has legitimate uses and is more than just a method of putting the hard sell on someone. Perhaps in the wrong hands it can be a powerful manipulative tool.
This experience of being so turned on that time seems to stand still has happened to me in prior encounters with other people. Usually, I’m the one calling it out while others fall for it. I now say, If music plays when somebody enters the room, and you are not in a Broadway production of “Hello Dolly,” that’s a red flag.
I do remember, though, one time 15 years ago when I had such an intense experience of meeting a man that I was on Cloud 9 the whole next day. A mutual friend said he had witnessed in us a “certain meeting of the minds.” It was a really manipulative, sociopathic set-up that I believe his church was behind. (The church asked not to be identified as Redeemer Presbyterian Church in Manhattan, so OK, you didn’t hear it from me.) It was a cult, pure and simple. Just because it doesn’t send people to a camp in California doesn’t mean it isn’t a cult. It was the only experience I ever had with an organization of spaths all banded together in a common purpose. Anyway, I felt I had somehow failed when he went into a rage, saying our breakup was basically my fault, not his, for not accepting Jesus.
Thanks for pointing out how an encounter with a spath can exhaust someone so much. It’s a feeling of being completely blown out. When I’m having a conversation and feel vaguely exhausted from it, yet I can’t pinpoint the reason, I know it’s suspicious.
Grace-
In response to your question regarding whether sociopaths are ever caught in a “betrayal bond”….. sociopaths are parasites. They have no deep abiding affections. They simply attach themselves to a supply of whatever they want or need. When the well runs dry, they’re off to the next host.
Sister-Sister-
You’d mentioned a friend who you felt you needed to give up on because they could not be enlightened regardless of the efforts you made. Unfortunately, people are extremely resistant to changing their minds, no matter what level of pain they suffer. And advice of friends and family may not be viewed as “credible.”
Donna, myself, and many others have written our stories in order to help folks see the forest for the trees. While it’s not possible to put a subject expert in front of every resistant victim, it is possible to put the writings of someone who has lived through their circumstance in front of them. Involving your friend in a discussion on this site, or putting literature that could ring true for them into their hands, may open their thoughts in ways that may not, otherwise, succeed because books don’t feel like an argument, pressure or a confrontation. They are a passive source of information that a person can absorb at their will and at their own speed.
All the best-
Joyce
If only this type of abuse could be nipped in the bud, or even stopped before it gets a chance to start by tighting up on laws regarding these social predators, who search out victims to exploit for money, sex, an easy lifestyle without working for a living, a place to live for free etc. It’s fine for the current victim who’s been dropped to move on and forget if possible but what about the next victim and the next and the n………..We need to find a way to stop the suffering of normal, caring, loving human beings at the hands of these evil people. We’re advised not to expose them but, so long as we’re safe from harm, I think they should all be exposed as much as possible in an attempt to stop the suffering.