Letters to Lovefraud: Attempting to understand what happened

Editor’s note: Lovefraud received the following email from a reader who posts as Whirlwind71.

I have just finished reading Love Fraud just mere moments ago, and up until now, I really hadn’t been interested in books at all. Previous to this, I read Mary Jo Buttafuoco, Getting It Through My Thick Skull as well as Snakes in Suits and Pathology of a Psychopath (a hard read) ”¦ all in an attempt to understand what the heck happened to me and my family when a guy (whom I described as the most amazing man I have ever met) came into my life ”¦ I now realize that the word “amazing” has many different levels!

Once married to my kids’ father, I was now a divorced ”¦ or shall I say a HAPPILY divorced, self-made career woman. I hold one insurance brokers designation and am halfway to another. These are university course levels, so for someone who only had a high school diploma and being a single mom raising two little kids, studying, was ”¦ well ”¦ a feat in itself.

Somehow with the strength of my family and more so God, I plugged away. I actually liked being on my own, but really craved having someone to share special moments with, and when my kids were with their father, have a male companion ”¦ not necessarily for marriage but for companionship. Strong willed and financially capable, I grew my little kingdom to building a new house, having a rental home, van, truck, camper all paid off except for the two houses. But the mortgage payments were decent. I am smart with my money and let it work for me.

Amazing man

Then one day I met this “amazing man.” He was strong willed, energetic, wonderful with my kids, attentive and provided us with this fast paced, fly off the seat of our pants life. A wonderful musician all self-taught, he could learn to play anything within a short period of time. He lived “outside the bubble,” something I (as a strict planner) looked up to. I wished I could just throw caution to the wind and be more like him. He liked the things I liked camping, spending time at home, hiking and socializing with friends. We spent the first few months doing crazy things; spur of the moment camping in the middle of nowhere on some mountainside away from everyone.

He called himself the skunk catcher, as no one in our town would do it (not even by law, so he advertised his services and people would pay him to catch these things). After caught, he would play with them, show them around the neighborhood and even drive him around to show others. At first it was neat to see, but when he actually put a caught skunk in the back of my jeep, that’s when I was no longer impressed. He seemed to think that there was no smell, but it was rank. I spent hours cleaning and fumigating it and even burnt candles in it overnight to help…he said that his mom would come and clean it for $75. I told him I WOULD clean it and he could pay me ”¦ I never got a dime.

He pulled away

Then there was a period of time in the very beginning of our relationship that he pulled away from me and I actively pursued him, as I really did like him. Looking back, I think that he was pulling away as perhaps he was causing some sort of grief for his last ex ”¦ The one he called nasty names to anyone who asked about her.

Soon, he became mine and I could not have been more thrilled. He is in my opinion, VERY good looking with his blue collar/hard-working look (which I like). By far, one of the best looking guys I have ever been with. Sex was passionate and exciting. When my kids went to their father’s house, we had so much fun. Soon, we were inseparable, but that’s when things started to go wrong.

Temper like blasting oil

Granted, there were Red Flags prior, as I knew he had a temper like dynamite ”¦ no no like blasting oil. I remember one day he screamed at me in his back yard because I didn’t come fast enough to help him fix a wind-blown gazebo that was laying in a pile for nearly four months ”¦ apparently because I didn’t come when he wanted me to, it was all my fault that it was completely wrecked and he was out $200. He told me to get the (eff) off his property and never come back. Within an hour he called and apologized profusely that he had a horrible day because his co-worker is a dink. At first I resisted his apology however he got mad at me for not forgiving him so I just gave in and forgave him.

Another day he was SO angry because I wasn’t answering his phone calls, as every time I answered he would scream in my ear about how horrible his day at work was. I was tired of listening to the screaming so I ignored my phone, but after at least 13 back-to-back calls, I finally answered. He told me to get my (effn) travel trailer off his property and get the (eff) out of his life. I simply said, “Okay, I’ll be there in 15 minutes with my truck.” Within five minutes he called back and apologized. ”¦ the same song and dance when I refused to accept, he yelled at me and told me that it was my entire fault that he got so mad and if I would just not provoke him, he wouldn’t yell and scream. I ended up dropping the whole thing but my heart was hurt.

I watched when he would fight with his roommate and throw HUGE temper tantrums when the roommate would ask him to tidy up his mess. I have never seen anything like this before. He might as well laid on the floor and kicked and screamed like a 2-year-old ”¦ to this day that old roommate won’t have anything to do with him and he cannot figure out why. And that’s not all he did to him.

Evicting them

He advertised his services on the Internet, so that if you had an abusive boyfriend or husband that you wanted out of the house but wouldn’t leave, he would go and evict them. I heard stories of how he would bust into the door, push and shove some drunk or stoned or deadbeat guy around and throw them out. When I questioned him about how dangerous this was ”¦ I mean what if this guy had a gun or worse ”¦ he simply said, no one can hurt me first, they would never even get their hand on the gun let alone the trigger. So then I asked him, this is illegal, you can’t do this, your going to get thrown in jail ”¦ he said, “I’m above the law.” He would recite some chapter of the legal system because he has read the entire Canadian criminal code, how it was his right as a civilian to arrest someone. He thought that he was the be-all mister knowledge about the law, and would spout of some code at random. I never double-checked his words.

Fun or ruckus

But it wasn’t bad every day, we did a lot of fun things, but it was always one degree away from causing some sort of damage or ruckus or borderline illegal. He likes air soft guns (shoots little plastic beebees) and my son LOVED that his passion was guns and war things. They would run around the neighborhood shooting each other, however, he would get carried away and usually ended up with someone getting hurt at his hands. Parents of my son’s friends were skeptical about letting them come play.

For every good memory I have 13 bad memories, camping trips ruined, extreme road rage explosions, near disaster trips, screaming at the kids and calling names, turn on the dime mood swings, bone chilling stares ”¦ when he is a really bad mood, his eyebrows go really pointy and his eyes have an icy blue stare. He yells like a drill sergeant and doesn’t care what language he uses ”¦ I have been called names I have never heard before and then 10 minutes later he wants to go have sex because he is done with his tantrum. Sex was HUGE with him, and he couldn’t understand why on the weekend, when the kids were gone, that I didn’t want to have sex 14 times or at least every hour and a half, as this gave him enough time to re-supply his energy for another “round.”

He abused all of my vehicles and I am convinced that this is the reason that I had to put TWO transmissions in my truck. He slammed the house doors so hard even the second floor windows shook. He kicked my solid mahogany seven-drawer dresser so that it lifted off the ground, kicked the railings of my deck, puked over the railings after a night out of drinking and anytime I condemned him for any of these things, I got yelled and screamed at. I wasn’t silent, I always was on him but that’s why we fought ALL THE TIME! He would tell me that if I would just shut up and be good, everything would be fine.

Moved in

Somehow he sunk into our life. I never asked him to move in, he just invited himself and I just let him. That’s when the ugly came out (the things you have just read). For the first seven months after he moved in he was unemployed as we suffered a recession and the oilfield halted. He sat on my couch everyday and did NOTHING ”¦ he smoked, ate and pooped and that’s all he ever did. Slept in until I would call him at 1 p.m. and then he was up all night.

He was on this laptop the entire day. One day, I wanted to see what he was looking at on the Internet that could keep him so occupied, so when he was sleeping I tried to get into his computer, but he had a password on it. He found out that I tried to get in because the next time he logged in it said “one log in attempt failed.” He was angry and screamed at me. He had NO problem going through my computer and even my cell phone, which I caught him doing several times, but if I yelled at him, he yelled at me louder.

We made plans to move from the city and build a house closer in the mountains. This would help us, he said. He wanted to open a welding shop, a wood working shop, and some other kinds of shops, I was going to open an insurance brokerage, but it would be my money being set down, as he had no credit. He hasn’t filed income tax for at least five years, he owes for a student loan over 10 years ago, and who knows what else.

No rent

He officially moved in, in July and it wasn’t until December when he started paying me rent. When he did pay rent, he would throw it at me, or tell me “here’s your rent, now shut the (eff) up,”or make me scavenger hunt for it. He was always late and had to be reminded ”¦ even though what I asked was SO little. He drove my jeep under my insurance (as he held an out of province driver license), yet never wanted to buy the jeep off of me when I asked him to. I was going through a rough financial period and said that I had to sell the jeep and he lost his marbles, so I said, well then you buy it, you’re the only one who drives it. He said, “If we would just get married, then it would be mine anyways so why should I pay for something that would end up being mine?”

Also, he also had no provincial health care which when I found out, I could not understand WHY wouldn’t he fill out the paperwork. In our province, we don’t pay for the health care”¦ I mean what would happen if he was in a car accident? Who’s going to pay? His deadbeat family who has NOTHING to their name? NO”¦I would be stuck with it, as we would be considered common law.

From the moment he moved his boxes in I could no longer get even a bicycle in my garage, my basement was so cluttered with all his things that you could barely walk in there. When I asked him to clean up and box some things to organize it he would go into a complete FIT! Soon, I didn’t even bother.

Wrong ring

Prior to him moving in he proposed to me. He put the ring under the hood of the jeep and said to me to come out and look at the jeep because the engine was making a weird noise. When I lifted the hood, there was a ring, however, it was the wrong ring. He gave me the wedding ring, not the engagement ring. He thought that I got the smaller ring first and if I actually show up for the wedding, I get the bigger one. I wore the ring for a few months but I ended up giving it back to him as I told him that this isn’t working out and I won’t wear something that I don’t believe in. He told me, and I QUOTE, “If you would shut the fuck up, wear the fucking ring and be GOOD, then everything would be fine.” I never did wear it again.

I had tried for at least nine months to convince him that this is no longer working and that he needs to move out. The very first time I told him to move out, he told me “no. ”I just looked at him in astonishment and said, “Can you say that?” I tried to reason, yell, beg, plead, threaten but nothing worked.

He began to steal from stores, nothing big, little things like spices, hair products, makeup, batteries, groceries, dollar store things but soon my basement was filled with thousands of dollars of stolen items. He said to me that if I left him that I would lose everything, as all this stuff was in MY house and I would lose my house, my job, and my kids and have nothing. Even though I DIDN’T steal this, I had it in my possession ”¦ so for many months, I felt like I couldn’t do a thing. One day, I broke down and told a friend and she said to me that I had NO choice but to move him out and that I wouldn’t be held responsible.

Moved him out

On VERY cold February day when he was out of town I packed up all his belongings and moved them into a storage unit. I put all his instruments in the basement of our church as they are temperature sensitive. I didn’t do this to be mean; I just couldn’t do this anymore. I turned into someone I no longer recognized. I was angry all the time, would snap at small things, I gained SO much weight, every day was tense and my world was crumbling right before my eyes and there was nothing I could do. It was like trying to catch the rain”¦ My kids and I could no longer take it.

My daughter had moved with her father as she couldn’t take the pressure of living in such a tense house, and I could feel that my son was going to leave me too. If I lost my kids, I would curl up and die ”¦ I chose THEM, so I moved him out. But it didn’t end there, when he got back into town stuff really hit the fan. He scheduled a meeting with our pastor at the church and basically said that if I didn’t allow him to come home that he would kill himself something he threatened quite often in the last few months. Being that I didn’t want him to self-destruct, I allowed him to come back BUT on the promise that in his five days off, he/we would look for a place for him to move to. He PROMISED me, in front of our Pastor, so I let him come back to my house.

The next day I had to work, I called home to talk to him and asked him what he was planning to do today (thinking he would say, checking out the rentals) but instead he told me that he was going to call his buddies to come and finish the garage interior and I was supposed to order all the wood to frame the basement. When I said WHAT? He said, well, call your lawyer and get them to draw up a prenup agreement, we will get married and I promise everything will be good.

Went to the police

I panicked. On my lunch break I went to the police station to see if I could get some help to get him out of the house. The officer asked a millions questions and finally got out of me (not the reason I went there), but I ended up confessing that our relationship had been physical. He has thrown me around, pulled me across the floor by my hair, flipped me over his leg, held his fist over me, football tackled me and said he was going to (effn) kill me.

In a whirlwind, the police came to my house, but he had a suspicion that something was going on, because I didn’t come home for lunch and he couldn’t get a hold of me all afternoon (and I’m not like that) ”¦ he had left the house. The next day he called me at work and I told him that the police were looking for him; he couldn’t believe what I had done. He did turn himself in.

He broke the no contact order we had when he contacted my daughter (who was back half time with me) and said it was a matter of life and death. I talked to him (because of course I was worried) and somehow he convinced me that he had changed and that we can work on things. He also convinced me to write a letter to the crown prosecutor explaining that I didn’t mean for all this to happen—which was the truth—I was only wanting some help to get him out of my house, but then the truth came out. But, it didn’t convince anyone and he ended up pleading guilty.

Dating again

After the court date, we still were somewhat together. He promised me that things would be better and he was getting help and that he needed me by his side to do all this as if I wasn’t then he had nothing to work towards”¦so I did. We dated, went out for nice suppers, went on small weekend trips and things were nice. This is what it was supposed to be like all this time, but I never did get. I liked the space from him, however, over the next month he started to become anxious again. At one point he said that if he wasn’t moved back in by April that it was over. I said, well then it’s over cause you’re not moving back in.

From that point on, it was a quick down slide ”¦ I wasn’t wanting to be around him anymore but didn’t know how to get rid of him. If I didn’t answer his millions of texts, then he would call, if I ignored his calls, he would show up”¦at my work, my house ”¦ wherever ”¦ and he would make a scene.

Easter was coming up and he asked what I was cooking, and I said it was just me and the kids, so just a chicken. He said he would buy a turkey. I asked why? He said, because I want a turkey and I said, please, just let me and the kids have a quiet holiday. Then he said, “I’m going to buy a fucking turkey, you’re going to cook the fucking turkey, we are going to sit and have a family fucking meal!” I ended up cooking the turkey and we sat together.

Shot a horse

After supper we went out to shoot this new paintball gun that he and my son bought. (This is where I did something wrong.) We were driving and I saw this horse up on a hill — quite far off the road. I took the paintball gun and out of curiosity wondering if it could reach it, I shot the horse in the BUM. The horse barely moved but I got it on the hindquarter. I know it was a stupid move, but I knew where I was aiming and I didn’t hurt it, it just sat there looking at me ”¦ well little did I know, he actually was videotaping me.

A couple weekends later after constant bickering back and forth, he used the video against me. He came to my work and stood on this hill by the parking lot and held the phone up and yelled, “You should see this video of this mom shooting this horse; maybe someone should show social services.” He ended up calling the police on me, however, once I spoke to the officer, he just gave me a warning and let it go!

That was the very officer that called him a “sociopath,” a word I never heard before, but that night I sat at my computer and Googled it. Dr. Hare’s list came up, and it was BANG ON!

Called my bosses

Earlier to this, he called all of my bosses and left messages with them, one ended up calling him back and he ranted and raved about things that my boss said wasn’t valid except one thing. He said that I broke client/broker confidentiality; however, when I explained to my boss what I said, he dismissed it. But then I found out from another boss that he told that other boss that we had sex in the office. The entire day he drove around my office to see if my van was gone, as he thought I would be fired (his whole plan).

Even after that, he weaseled his way back to me. I asked him how he could say that he loves me so much yet try to get me fired. What would you have done if right now, I am standing in front of you and I DID get fired”¦what would you do then? You know what he said? “I would take care of you.” I was mortified.

This isn’t all of it either”¦there’s SO much more”¦

He’s engaged

To date, we go to trial soon on yet another three charges recently laid on him. He plead not guilty to this one though. I found out just the other day that he is ENGAGED”¦ after telling me over and over that I was his last relationship and if I ended it, then I have ended him, but apparently he has found love again and in just a short few months (no more than four). I wonder if she got my old engagement ring the ring from the girl prior to me. LOL

Healing is taking a long, long, long time. He never stole the kind of money from me that yours did to you; I simply didn’t have it. But he lived off of me for free, drove and abused my vehicles, treated my kids good one day horrible the next, while I paid for camping trips, holidays, food, bills, entertainment, etc., and that’s devastating enough.

He grabbed nearly all the gifts he ever gave to me, every birthday, Christmas gift or whatever gifts, and even a potato bin that he made me. I voluntarily gave back a wooden garbage bin and computer desk he made for me, in an attempt to avoid him showing up again and screaming for the things he calls HIS. He said they were only mine if he was around. I never received nor asked for one thing back that I had given to him. A while back, when he was winterizing my trailer, I asked if he would do this for me come spring, and he said, “If I’m not fucking you, I do nothing for free.”

Some of his favorite sayings were: “God always gives me what I want.” At prayer time at supper, he would end his prayer with, “Thank you for not giving us what we deserve,” and my favorite, “If you would just shut up and be good, every thing would be fine.” Ironic that he prays at supper every night yet, steals from others that day.


I have gone through the Dr. Hare’s list for sociopath and I could give you many, many examples of each and every “sign” he lists. There is NO DOUBT in my mind that my ex is a sociopath, just as that officer said.

I am trying to educate myself to understand what happened”¦how to avoid another relationship like this one, and how to make sure that IF he ever reappears, that I have the strength to walk away. This is a deep-seated fear. He has taken my self-confidence, and for the first time in my life, I suffer from panic attacks and anxiety. I have calmed down A LOT, but I still feel it inside, and it’s going to take a while before I move on.

Weirdly enough, I grieved this relationship ending more than I did when my marriage ended. That I don’t quite understand. I believe, though, it is because this was an emotional abuse relationship, whereas my marriage simply ended. The worst part of all of this is, it really has grown my children and I apart.

My ex-husband uses the tension and horrid memories against me in an attempt to have both kids go and live with him (at least a week and a week), as he is not too proud to take child support from me. He is manipulative and at the drop of a dime would take everything away from me, too. He is just jealous of how successful I became without him, and would love to see me fail.

So I have been trying to rebuild this crumbled relationship with my kids. My daughter and I are good, she missed a lot of the tension at home when she moved out, but is back with me a week on and a week off, but she is 17 now and won’t be home for much longer. My son (age 12) is another story; it’s a bridge I have to cross soon.

Thank you for your book

Thank you for your book; it was one of many steps I have to take on my road to recovery. Only those who have personally been preyed upon can understand the depths of our words. To others, it is just a story ”¦ a devastating one, but still a story. To us, every word cuts like a knife, every story reeks of familiarity.

At times, while reading your story I thought to myself”¦HOW can our stories be SO alike ”¦ did she look into my windows? How can sociopaths read from the very same book and act exactly alike BANG ON!!! It was creepy to read and one day I’m going to reopen your book and highlight everything that was MY life that you lived.

I have often thought of writing my own book. Perhaps one day and maybe as a healing method. Thank you for taking your time to read this, I know it is long winded but to be honest, this is still only a glimpse of all that happened. Looking back, I wonder how I walk upright. Perhaps it will help someone else as your book helped me.

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176 Comments on "Letters to Lovefraud: Attempting to understand what happened"

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Dear Whirlwind,

Thanks for sharing your story…and I have no doubt that as long as it was, it is only the tip of the iceberg of the horrible things he has done to you. He sounds “very typical” for a psychopath.

If you have not read Dr. Patrick Carnes book “Betrayal Bond” I suggest that you do so. The push pull of the get away/come back that you noticed at the first of the relationship with him, then once he had you hooked, you couldn’t get away from him is a very normal behavior pattern for a psychopath.

Him having a new fiance in 4 months is also normal too….he found another victim.

The early “love bomb” the sweeping you off your feet at first is a very common method of psychopaths hooking you in at first.

It sounds like your kids recognize that he is not a good person, which is a good thing….now that you are rid of him, it will be much easier for you to rebuild your life with your children. It is also a good teaching point for your children….they will run into psychopaths in their lives and you can educate them to the RED FLAGS of spotting them.

Thanks again for sharing your story and welcome to Love Fraud. This is a wonderful site for knowledge and support. God bless.


I’m amazed because I was just thinking that my ex-spath goes through life “by the seat of his pants” (you said the same thing in your post), stirring up heartache and headaches for the rest of us. Last night, I was at work and was looking through a newspaper that shows people’s mug shots. It had my ex-spath’s picture in it, having been arrested for “passing bad checks.” Needless to say, I was anxious all night long, also having a backache to contend with (which I came to work with). I am worn out, sick over the latest news. We live in an upper-middle class section of town, so I’m sure everyone will know. I feel badly for myself and my children. When I talked to him about it, it’s not a big deal in his mind, that he “made a mistake” (yeh, he’s been doing this for 30 plus years), always blowing off my former advice not to give anyone a check if, heh, you don’t have the money in your bank account to cover it (sounds like good common sense to me). So much of what you shared, I “get.” I realize that I have been so caught up with his shenanigans over the years (trying to solve his b.s. nonsense plus contending with my emotional responses) that my kids have gotten overlooked. The more I analyze him, I realize that he is a lunatic. All of his crap weighs on me, bringing me down. He is an embarrassment.

Dear Bluejay,

Interesting about the mug shot newspaper, one of the counties next door to my county has their mug shots ON LINE….and the local newspaper publishes a mug shot paper each week with them in it, it sells for a buck at the local gas stations and convenience stores.

I got on line the other day and cruised through the mug shots and low and behold I ran into some of my “neighbors” and distant cousins in the photos. I wish EVERY county in the country would publish mug shots like that along with what they are charged with and so on. My state puts up the photograph and convictions of every inmate in the state corrections department along with what their expected parole date is (if they have one). It would sure make doing background checks easier.

I know it is embarrassing to your children to have their father’s picture there…but it is HIS SHAME, not theirs. They have not done anything wrong, and neither have you, getting over the SHAME of what my P son has done was difficult for me as well, but I no longer “own” his crimes, they are HIS not mine.

Hey Bluejay…..
It’s helpful to remember……WE DO NOT OWN WHAT OTHERS DO!!!!!!

When spaths mugshot came out in our little paper, which the WHOLE community reads……I told the kids….keep your heads held HIGH! We are NOT owning what your father chose to do and get caught for! HIS CHOICE!
I think those words empowered my kids to carry on…..and when asked they repeated….his choices- his consequences-not my problem! SImple and direct!

THAT is what people remember……your response and how impressive it is you can hold your head up during adversity. The compassion will turn to you and your kids….and spath won’t gain a thing but disgust!

Hold your head high girl!!!! And teach your kids to do the same!

Ox Drover,

This local crime newspaper just started up over the summer time. I personally don’t like looking at others’ mug shots (personal privacy reasons), but being curious, I looked and his face was on the second page. My heart dropped. When I told my oldest son (who wants to run for class office this coming week), he was “pissed,” but was telling himself that no-one reads these papers, no-one will know (it’s unlikely). I’m glad that the kids have tomorrow off. I still haven’t told my other two children, but I think that I will, the second child (my son) being in 6th grade this year (middle school). I told my oldest son that if he wanted me to pull him out of school at any time, I would do so. Spaths take the joy out of life. I appreciate your advice, but it’s hard to not feel ashamed of him (wear his shame, though I didn’t commit any crime), anticipating what I might meet up with down the road. People can be cruel, thinking that you’re like your ex, assuming things about your children. This literally makes me sick, is hurtful to me.

Dear Bluejay,

Darlen, I totally understand how cruel people can be, and the SHAME, I was raised in a culture of shame, keeping the family secrets hidden….pretend none of it happened….but it has taken me nearly 60 years to learn that what others (even people close to me) have done is NOT MY SHAME….IT IS THEIRS.

Though it is a difficult lesson to learn, actually your kids are being given an opportunity to learn this at a much earlier age and it can be a good lesson for them.

Stress to them that HIS BEHAVIOR is not their shame and if the kids at school make nasty remarks or try to bully them over this they should go to their teacher or principal….they should NOT accept blame or ridicule for what their father has done. Trying to keep someone’s bad behavior a “secret” is a much heavier burden to bear and there is always a chance it will “leak out” anyway (it always seems to do so) but acknowledging that he has done this thing, but it is NOT their shame. That is empowering.

Your kids can be taught to respond, “I’m not responsible for what someone else does.” (((hugs))))

Erin Brock and Ox Drover,

There is literally always something unpleasant going on when it comes to the spath. Even about his arrest, he doesn’t tell me the truth. He has a court appearance next month about this matter. I will think about how to approach this latest catastrophe with my kids, taking your advice about what to say to them regarding their father. You can never have a long stretch of time with peace. They’re always stirring up trouble. Regarding a bad check that he gave someone in the recent past, I asked the spath if the guy was angry about it (the man filed a warrant with the police department, so you know he wasn’t too pleased) and he said to me, “no, he knows I didn’t mean to do it.” Are you out of your mind?

Dear Blue,

Yea, he was only upset enough to file a warrant, not really upset. LOL ROTFLMAO

Well, they do not take responsibility for their actions or the consequences of their actions. My P son still thinks he is a “winner” and doesn’t see that being the smartest convict in the Texas prison system does NOT MAKE HIM A WINNER…he is still nothing but a low life convict that has been in prison since he was 17. DUH????

(head shaking here) Nothing is ever their fault.

The check must have been for a pretty good size to get arrested for it —at least in my state they give you a chance to make it good and only if it is over so much will they issue a warrant, or if there are MULTIPLE checks totaling over so much.

Yea, that is funny all right…if it wasn’t so sad for his kids, but stress to them that they are not responsible for how he behaves, but for their own behavior and that they can HOLD THEIR HEADS UP BECAUSE IT IS NOT THEIR SHAME.

Ox Drover,

He was scheduled to appear last week in the county over a bounced check, totalling $600.00. The spath paid the man his money and the man managed to get the case removed from the court docket. The reason I knew about this court appearance is because I found a warrant of debt in the front bushes at my house (the authorities don’t know where he lives, so they deliver these wonderful pieces of paper to my house). I gave the warrant to the spath, giving him a piece of my mind, but I’m the only one that was apparently upset about it (he didn’t seem phased). Yes, they always can excuse themselves, nothing truly being their fault. It’s laughable until you live with the crap that they dish out. No matter what anyone tells me, he is a nut. Oh yeh, I am writing down things that you and Erin Brock recommend that I say to the kids, talking to them tomorrow about their dad’s latest troubles. Thanks for the help. I feel somewhat better, but I still live on a roller-coaster.

Dear Blue,

That is what happens when we have contact with them, it rubs off on us like skunk musk! Not that you have any choice in the matter, because you do have kids with him….and the warrants delivered to your bushes too. There is NOTHING you can do about it, except change your own attitude about it…work on not letting it bother you (and yea, I KNOW, it will be difficult!) LOL

I think the coming on the mug shot by surprise is also part of the problem as well….I ran into egg donor in the grocery store once by surprise and it ZONKED ME! Those surprises are the worst kind I think. But keep your chin up and encourage your kids and come here and vent all you need to! (((hugs)))) and God bless.

Ox Drover,

The warrant was put on my kitchen door (I never use it) and I assume that it blew into the bushes. I just happened to find it, sending me into a tizzy. The man will never change. Whenever I know troubles are up the road, I try and come up with back-up plans (eg. I could homeschool my children, move and put them in other schools, etc.), driving me bonkers.

Dear Bluejay,

Well, Moving or home schooling your kids is a lot of trouble and there is no guarantee that he will not show up and show his arse no matter what you do. It is difficult to keep secrets like his…and really just facing them, and DIS-owning them being yours (and the kids’) will solve the problem a lot easier than moving or taking them out of school.

No matter how far you run or hide, they are back there just waiting to pop up. Look at Woody Harrelson’s father, Charles, a serial killer…cold as ice serial killer. But I don’t blame Woody for what his dad did.

Ox Drover,

After getting home from work, I talked to the oldest son and happened to say, half jokingly, “we could disown your dad.” Maybe, that’s the solution for us! I wish that I knew how to insert a smiley face, but I don’t. I’m off to figure out solutions to my problems, remembering the saying, “for every problem, there’s a solution,” but I wonder if that applies to spaths? Ideally, I would like to live a PROBLEM FREE life, having had enough of them (courtesy of others and sometimes myself).

Dear Bluejay,

Well, in a way you have disowned him by divorcing him. As for the kids, they are the ones who have to make the decision to see him or hot…I don’t know what kind of visitation your kids have with him, either legally or informally. I am not sure at what age a child is allowed to “disown” a parent in your state, and decide not to have visitation with them. I think it varies from state to state and judge to judge, but that might be an idea if your kids do not want to see him. You could document the embarrassments he has been to them and to you and approach the courts requesting NO visitation with him. Maybe he wouldn’t fight it. It might let you live P-free. I am pretty close to P-free myself, but it has been a long hard journey. They never make it easy unless they just skip town, which yours obviously is not doing.

I suggest maybe in the future if you get a warrant delivered to your house you take it to the police station and say “not at this address” rather than give it to him. That way you don’t get pulled into the situation when a warrant is issued for him.

Dear Whirlwind
OH MY~! Now that was one hell of a rollercoaster ride named “The Big Stink’ glad you jumped off in time…


hmmm, this article tweaked me. I wonder 2 things. Maybe my n ex was a spath, and maybe the person I had an abusive relationship when i was 20 wasn’t just a drunk abused as a child (and he def was that.) and maybe my other physically battered + drug addicted ex from 25 years ago was more than i thought HER to be.


as i was reading your article, I thought, ‘this sounds like a ‘typical’ abusive relationship.’ especially your loss of self and how you gave away your power. i don’t remember what that feels like anymore, but i know i never question it in others since i experienced it at 20.

you have a lot of rebuilding to do to trust yourself again. after the relation ship i had in my late 20’s (my physically battered + drug addicted + drunk ex) I was alone for almost 2 decades. I was terrified at first – thinking i would get involved with somone similar. I had learned so much in the meantime, that when i got involved again I would never get involved with someone with a drinking or other addiction problem. i know that i would ALWAYS lose to the addiction.

the person i finally got involved with was someone i now think to be an n. and tonight i am wondering if she wasn’t something more than that even.

well folks – are all abusive people spaths??????


To answer your question…I think to one extent or another yes, if you have the “cut off score” at 30, then NO, but if you look at it as a SCALE along which there is a continuum, then Yes, everyone has those traits to one extent or another, but not everyone has 30 + points worth.

It is kind of like “is everyone a tall person?” As compared to WHAT? What is tall? what is short? what is average?

So abusive people are I think “higher than average” in P-traits, and are lower than average in empathy, and maybe higher than average in control and anger issues. You can go on and add the traits from there.

I think not all Ns are Ps, but all Ps are HIGH in N-traits, but some people even Ps are higher in N traits than others. Lots of variables in the whole scenario.

But the bottom line is that which label or label-S we hang on them it doesn’t matter, they are TOXIC. My egg donor doesn’t fit most descriptions of a P, but she is high in control issues, she is not particularly N-ish, and she hasn’t done a lot of criminal stuff, been married a bunch of times, or not worked, etc. or cheated people out of money, quite the opposite actually. Yet, she is very TOXIC at least to me. She masks herself to most people, so yes, she has some P traits in control issues, but over all I’m not sure what she is diagnosable as, but I know she is not to be trusted and she is toxic to me. That’s definition enough for me.

One Joy,
I have gone through looking back at my relationships. I think a couple of them were spaths. One was a man whom I had a serious relationship with. He cheated on me, asked my roomate out for a date while we were “broken up” and similiar disturbing behavior. HA

I did not even know I was like Oxy: One and DONE!! I alway’s told my boyfriends “if we are just dating each other, and you cheat on me, I’ll NEVAH see you again” Well, at least two tried me out…I nevah saw them again! Even tho one would wait until I got home from work and hang outside my apt…I told him, hey, you wanted her, now she’s all yours..get lost. The other guy was more nutso than that. He actually crawled into my attick space while I was home alone. I got a scared feeling and called my twin. She brought a BIG friend of ours over…sure enough “someone was crawling” thru the attick” UGH And the next day written in the snow on my car was this message “No More Games” LOLOLOL Haven’t heard from him since.

Looking back, I can see plenty of dysfunctional relationships, but not like those two winners.

onejoy – your talkin past tense – he was she was – Well abusive/exploitive people dont seem to come around me anymore – I guess it’s my T shirt that say’s . ”DONT EVEN THINK YOU CAN FUCK WITH ME”
But in all seriousness you cant be a door mat unless you lay down…..and if your anything like me YES prolly all our past relationships were with spaths….live a little learn alot…


hi oxy – i think i need to go back and ‘rate’ all these people.

it DOES matter to me, i need to know what i was dealing with. it doesn’t change much of anything (except that i still have contact with one of those peeps very very seldom, and very irregularly but if I figure out she was something more than abused and drunk/ drug addicted in the past, then I am not going to have contact with her.)

maybe it should, but n doesn’t scare me as much as spath. doesn’t change that i will never interact with n ex. but if she is really a spath i want to know -as sky used to say, ‘i need to identify them in the wild’

AND – if they are all spaths – then holy ****, i’ve got some serious problems to deal with inside of me.


like this hens “.live a little learn alot” ‘


Ana – it’s kind of an aha moment…..

i had a pound of ‘dysfunctional relationships’, but thought i was learnig as i went along. or some such thing. today i am just going, holy crap! how many spaths HAVE i known???????

i am going to look at the one person i still have contact with every few years. the rest of them i don’t have contact with.

hmmm, this means not only was i a magnet and UNAWARE, but that they are in the population at higher rates than is suggested (as many lf posters suggest!) it stands to reason that someone else i know could be a spath, too….eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek!

hi onestep – i keep thinkin maybe it’s me thats farked up – but conciderin all the fact’s – the truths – of who I was then and who I am now – the two dont even compare – i wish i had gotten this life lesson when i was younger – when we know better we do better – at least i have found some peace with in myself – thats a good way to grow old – at peace with all my mistakes and regrets.


the aha moment is: i was unaware. they exist. the penny has dropped, some level of integration has taken place.

i had an ex from years ago (my first gf) – when we met she was still ensnared with a HORRID woman. def spath. i just didn’t have that word. she was abusive (in every way) criminal, stalked her, an addict…etc. had that ‘stare’. she was short and powerful , and very very violent.

One Joy,
I’ve turned that question around in my head and finally have come to a conclusion that satisfies me: A spath can be defined by its mask.

My father was abusive, angry, misogynist and selfish. Sometimes he was nice, but I was mostly afraid of him because he seemed ill-tempered. I call him an N, because he didn’t hide what he was. He sees nothing wrong with his behavior. He acts entitled to be this way.

My mother, on the other hand, wears the cloak of saintliness. The mask is so good, that even the IDEA of her doing or thinking something evil, is PREPOSTEROUS. Nobody would believe me if I tried to explain. I can’t really explain her evil because it’s so subtle and cloaked with a 180 degree opposite facade.

A pedophile priest is another example of spath. As is the judge who was making money sending kids to juvy.

My exspath is a really good example – everybody loves him. He seems so loveable. He loves animals and when he is your friend, you are certain that he is the best person to ever come into your life. In the last few years, he had become more outwardly abusive and he would rage at me. But I still couldn’t leave him because I felt that he would be lost without me. I longed to have the money to build a house on the second lot, so that I could live away from him and yet still provide for him. No way could I ever have imagined that he was poisoning me and that he was slandering me and that he intended to kill me. I didn’t even believe he was ever unfaithful to me. Even when I literally SMELLED sex on him.

In my mind, the dichotomy between what they are and how they present themselves, is the ultimate mind-fuck (of which I know you are intimately familiar). The ability to shatter everything you believed in, is what makes a spath. And there is no better way to do that, than to spin such a huge web of lies and deceit that it literally alters reality for us. That’s why Peck called them “the people of the lie”.

This is why spaths fly under the radar. They cannot be seen, usually, until it’s too late. The N’s and other abusers can be quite toxic, but they do show their stripes, pretty much. At least to their partners in crime.

My exspath had his minions, who did see the evil that he was perpetrating on me. They thought they knew him. But they didn’t. The crazy husband stealing neighbor, that he was having sex with doesn’t know that he fantasized “gutting her from her neck to her navel”, as he told my BF. The other spath woman with the meth addict husband who both were supposed to make my life miserable, doesn’t know that he told me he would like to poison her with botulism toxin by putting it on the door handles of her house. None of them knew he was a pedophile and multi-sexual.

Spaths are very aware of their disgusting and revolting nature. That’s why they wear masks. They know that if anyone could see how hideous they really are, they would lose their ability to commit atrocities. The mask is the key. Facade is everything to them.


ana – to my knowledge no one has ever cheated on me. when i was a teenager i slept with someone once who had a gf, and I did it once again (once) when i was in my early 20’s. I have never cheated on anyone.


oh yay, sky is weighing in!!! i will go read your post now!

That is a really good explanation of a spath. the MASK..ugh
It’s true you don’t find out till it’s too late, damage done, moving on…

The spath at work is still trying to milk me for info. I know because she never talks to me, but when she does it’s all..gimme, gimmme, gimme some info. LOL I feel like laughing at her. I don’t laugh at her tho..oh, no I just let her yack, yack, yack. Listening to her crap and knowing she is just a jealous spath..best way I think. Gee, I never did get your request for friendship on facebook, sorry.

One Joy, cheating sucks! That’s the two times I know of that I’ve been cheated on. Hmmm, can’t be honest…Get Lost!! It hurts!!


will print this out sky and ponder it. anyone want to add their theory?

sky – well, the sire is an n. my mom, who you all know i love was a very angry mother for much of my upbringing. angry supply. she was a punisher, and so weird about anything ‘real’ (like life events, or feelings). she hit me a couple of times (until i hit her back). I remember that i did get little spankings as a kid – but i don’t remember any of them except one. my n sire was really big into controlling our sexuality. he found me playing with the neighbours – nothing untoward was happenind and he threw me in the back seat, and someone managed to hit me and drive at the same time. this is the only time i remember him layin g a hand on me. he tried to run off a boy who had hitchhiked 70 miles to see me when i was a teen. he saw the kid coming up the road, and jumped off the tractor and got up in the kid’s face. he backed down when i threatened to get a rifle. (okay – now given my mom’s brother’s history, that’s just gotten another dimension…) Antoher time he had told me not to talk to a certain boy (and the guy was troulbe, for sure.) I ran into him and some other kids when i was riding home, and my dad came by and saw me, and made me get in the truck, and lead my pony through the open window. i was humiliated. his favourite thing to do (with a big smile) was mention his rusty jack knife to boys and then to brag about it.
yes, parents are protective and yes there were some predatory guys around, but he really went off side on occasion.

jayzus, i don’t know what got knocked lose in the last couple of days – but something sure has moved inside me.

i think i have to remember that kid who stood up to him. who threatened him to protect another, who stood in the maelstrom of his anger, and care for and release that part of me who felt so hurt and shocked when he hurt her.

One Joy,
I was wondering how a person would know if they had mold on their clothes or not??? I’m sensitive to it, but it has be strong smell of mold.

At least you know what you are dealing with.

It’s still mind-boggling though, isn’t it? I mean, you are looking at this “person’s face” and it is exhibiting all the facial expressions of a normal human. And it is exhibiting all the words and actions of someone who cares about you. And none of it is real… There is something inherently toxic about being in that position, even when you know what you are experiencing. mind boggling and soul destroying.

the soul destruction is in the betrayal. You know, when you were bending over to lend a hand or kiss a face and you get stabbed by the person you cared so much about. That’s a spath. It’s the big WTF? moment. Et tu Brutus?


okay, remembering that gutsy teen, i just went and read the email the ni sire sent weeks ago, it’s a request from my mom to know what’s going on with her mom.

i bought my mom some nice little things the other day, and will have someone drop them off for me, with a note about her mom (and other things.)


ana – send them to me!

but seriously – how i know is either the smell (this time for sure) or my first reaction: tingling tongue, metallic of burnt taste in my mouth, quickly followed by headache, dizziness, loss of balance, nausea, face and lips go numb, i drool (product of numb lips), my inner eyelids and nose start to go numb and i become anxious. now, depending on the type of mold, i become cognitively impaired, either right away or after a prolonged exposure.


sky – or the betrayal is the soul destruction. both my parents, in their own ways, are guilty of that.

it’s weird, i feel liberated again…twice in one month.


I wondered if you were pondering that question (what differentiates a N from a SPATH).

I like your answer. You said, above, that you think the answer is THE MASK.

I think your right.

The MASK of sanity.

There is a reason for the title of that book.

My “N” mother had a bit of a mask – she pretended to be nice but really just wanted you to serve her needs. The SPATH was a different experience entirely. He kissed my lips while stabbing me in the heart.

One Joy,
Good lawd! I have none of those symptoms. When I went into an office building…I though good gawd, how can people work in here all day?? My chest got tight and I could smell the mold. It was gross. I don’t blame you for taking all precautions…ugh.

You know it does leave me feeling uncomfortable…but, I’m not allowing her to “impress” me. I am so sick of spath behavior. I kind of like watching her in action. It’s a good lesson for me. Plus, one person who works with me knows her. When I said “she doesn’t like me since I lost weight” My real friend at work said “that’s her own shit”


ana – i do get lung reactions too. i have allergy triggered asthma, and mold gives me a particular cough. and most often it’s the lung reaction that lands me in the hospital. some mold seems to bother my lunges much more than others. i had never had pneumonia until this year. i think all the mold exposures finally caught up to me.

One Joy,
I have had pneumonia twice in my life. The last one was awful. I worked at a massage place that had an carbon minoxide leak..when we got shipped to the hospital by ambulance I found out I had pneumonia. About a week later I got pluracy (sp). It was miserable, I was out of work for a month. Ugh! Left that job for spath infected office job..

I seem to have shit luck! I’m Irish..that aint suppose to happen! Just kiddin’.


hahah – the new moldy roomie is irish.


peace oout all – am going to go off and ponder, ;the mask’, and get some sleep.

Hi all

Just a question!!! Probably a silly one at that and probably not possible. The other day I was wondering if it is possible for 2 sociopaths to end up together?

The reason I ask is because I look at my SP and look at his ex wife and quite frankly I think they’re as defective as each other. She can be very nasty and vendictive. She has even turned her back on me because I refused to take her help and advice many months ago when I was clearly not strong enough to deal with the changes and challenges that would come my way once I walked out on my SP. She offered her full support (even a place to stay) but I was too afraid of the consequences if I allowed myself to take her hand! She is now rather rude to me, only ever nice when others are around. She detests the fact that her 3 boys adore me and often sends my SP nasty text messages ordering him to let me know that I am not the children’s mother and that if he is to go out of town for work regardless of what the children want I am not to have her kids. She now excludes my 9 year old son from her boys birthday parties, even though they are all such very close mates. I have tried communicating with her and explaining to her how I feel and that not for one second would I ever try and ‘take her boys away’. I encourage them to love and respect their Mum. I defend her if my SP is slagging her name in front of them. I feel that I always do my best to keep the peace for the children involved and yet all my SP and his ex seem to want to do is fight, argue, control and manipulate one another.

My escape from this life I created with this man is still a working progress, so this really won’t be my problem once I’m gone. For now I’m just truly confused as to how 2 people can be so bitter and hate each other and place so much blame onto one another after 9 years since their divorce??? Could it be her frustration and the result of what she has become after her years with this SP? She married him, had children with him. Or could they both be sociopathic? Is it possible? I would like to think that when I am completely away from this man that I will not change the person that I am. I’m already an angrier, slightly snappier and a more bitter person than I once was. But will I become manipulative and cold like his ex has become towards me? Is it just a barrier we place around ourselves after the years of mind games, abuse and heartache?

I wouldn’t be so quick to judge that woman.

Imagine if you held out your hand to someone in order to save their life and they rejected it. You would be wondering WTF? is wrong with her.

Give her time. But stay cautious.

Hi Skylar… I appreciate your comments because you are always to the point and you don’t pussy foot around the question 🙂 Thanks for your honest opinion 🙂

I have toyed with this theory for a while and I have wondered whether she feels that way, but at the same time, I’m trying to lay low and let it go. Afterall, when I’m miles away from them all, it won’t really matter then will it?

One Joy,

I was going to ask you the other day which of your bad relationships happened first – the Internet Predator Lady, or your “N possibly S” ex? I couldn’t tell from your posts, but I was just wondering if you were in a “newly raw” state when you went from the one to the other – or was there ample time for you to have healed from the first disappointment?

At any rate, I agree with Sky regarding “The Mask.” In my opinion, the difference between an N and and S is that an N lies, whereas an S is nothing BUT a lie. In other words, with the N, it is more about putting on a “happy-together” “look at me!” face for the world; whereas with the S, it is rather a matter of FALSEHOOD and UNTRUTH from top to bottom (and inside-out). So I think that’s the central thing you need to think about in regards to your N ex: i.e., how prevalant and all-pervasive was the LIE?

Also, did the N ex ever speak of having “psychic abilities” or “special powers”? (For example, clairvoyance, telepathy – or perhaps she was a “Master of Kundalini,” etc.?) Because it is often characteristic of the type you’ve described that they feel themselves to be “unique,” “gifted,” or “singled out” in some such manner. For what it’s worth, I’ve seen this in several instances, and have found it (especially the “I’m a psychic” thing) to be a very reliable Red Flag for Narcissism.

But again, in regards to her being an N or an S, I think that the crux of the matter is this: First, to what extent was Falsehood present; and next, was this Falsehood merely “incidental” – or was it all-pervasive?

I do sympathize with the need to classify these fine distinctions. And while I agree with the usual advice given here that “Toxic is toxic,” I nevertheless think there is some point in trying (insofar as we are able) to make a more precise “diagnosis.” If nothing else, it sharpens the mind and makes us even more attuned to the various nuances of “toxicity”.

Oh, and I was also going to point out that for someone as hypersensitive as you (speaking as one hypersensitive person to another!), I think your best match would be the “Loyalist” personality from the Enneagram system (assuming you’re familiar with that). Again, I can only speak from personal experience, but for me there’s nothing worse than dealing with a mercurial, “all-over-the-map” type of individual. However, with the agreeable “Loyalist” you don’t have to sit around being irritated with her all the time, or worry about trying to figure out what she is up to from dawn to dusk. Moreover, for those of us with “thin skin” and hypervigilant minds, there’s no better match in the world than a good-natured Loyalist! Anyhow, just something for you to consider.

But, yes, One Joy, I can’t even imagine a worse combination for you (from my limited perspective, at least), than a Narcissist/Borderline/Possibly S pseudo-Buddhist who happens to live in another city! Good grief, what made you think that THAT was a good idea?! (haha)


What a great note to see first thing in the morning.

The n ex came first, after 18 years of being alone. She was around for about three years. We were lovers for six months and then came back together for a short time. I couldn’t understand why i was so hooked on her. It made little sense to me. It took me a long time to unhook and get over her. One of the things that helped was the spath….)

When i first walked away at the 6 month mark I felt strong and blessed for having had such a passionate interesting, albeit impossible lover. She came back to me, and i was ‘hooked’. The next few months were tumultuous and it ended. In trying months later to pick up a freindship – THAT ended with her visit to me, and her fist pulled in front of my face. I wrote her a goodbye letter after that. She has contacted me about 5 times since. The last time, she called recently. I was stunned. I didn’t know what to say, or if i wanted to just hang up. I said, ‘sorry, no can do’, and hung up. I have no desire to see her or connect with her in any way. she is extremely toxic. the spath came into my life about 2 months after the pulled fist.

special? HA! How could you even question this!! The last thing I remember is that she thinks she is an ‘indigo child’. save us all. I am starting to write more about her. I must be starting to process what happened with her. She did some awful things, and some things that just plain confused me.

She had some spathy traits. But she may have been an n with spathy traits. I went to bed thinking about her and another person , wondering about their ‘masks’. She definitely wore a mask, and tried to hide who she was – it was not congruent with what she said about herself.

There is something you might have missed about me in your evaluation of a good mate – i am highly curious and adventurous, and love to travel (well, did before I had all these chemical injuries and walking into a building became scarey, let alone a plane and another country.) Those who have these traits are or pretend to are very attractive to me. I won’t go into the list of what attracted me to the n in the first place. Suffice to say, i like playful people who play with language and cultural norms. Both she and the spath were extremely playful. The spath even more so.

I read the description of the loyalist on eneagram institute’s website and i don’t think it’s a good match. Too much insecurity and suspicion mentioned. But I don’t know the system well and as I have done a number of different personality type tests, I know that I would need to work with it before making a solid judgement. Loyalty is extremely important to me, as are the other qualities I mentioned. the n ex had grand moments of being/ pretending to be loyal and supportive. the spath faked marginal loyalty well. But that wasn’t my interest in her.


What a story! I nearly cried reading this! That man sounds DREADFUL! And then you hit the nail on the head with: “To us, every word cuts like a knife, every story reeks of familiarity.”

Yes yes yes. Unfortunately.

I could go through your article and highlight at least half of it as MY life. The fact that you use the word “tantrum” really hit me. That is exactly how I’d describe his fits as well. It did remind me of a toddler kicking and screaming on the floor, and the first time I witnessed it, I wanted to say, “I am not your mommy! Stop acting like a 2-year-old!” I might have even said it once or twice. I don’t remember.

I have recently come to a conclusion about the physical violence. When I look back, I realize that I didn’t break easy. His nonsense and bs was constantly met with my stubborn, “you’re not fooling me!” attitude. I think that is how I got myself slapped a couple of times—and eventually strangled nearly to death.

In fact, I should have died that night. I am sure SURE he was going to kill me. But something happened in that moment…

I remember his hands on my neck. I blacked out for a moment and my head felt like it was going to explode. I looked up at him above me, and he was getting blurry. Then my SURVIVAL instincts kicked in and told me something very strongly: he won’t kill you if he thinks you are not afraid. I knew somewhere deep down that he was getting off on my fear, which meant to him that he had FINALLY conquered this stubborn “bitch” who wouldn’t behave. So, I figured the only way to stop him from killing me was to “ruin it” for him by not being afraid. Probably another couple of seconds and I would have be gone, but I looked up at him and tried to shout (loud enough he could definitely hear me): “Kill me! Go on! Kill me! I don’t care!” He INSTANTLY let go. I had spoiled his fun. Then I started vomiting blood and he took me to the ER where he played HERO. He strutted around the hospital like he had saved the day!!!!!! The way he talked to doctors was like he had freaking rescued me!!!! He told the doctors that I drank so much alcohol that I tore my own throat from vomiting. Stupid doctor bought it. I was too scared to say a thing about what had really happened. I got throat surgery and he went back home with me.

Whirlwind, I really relate to a lot of things you’ve said here.

I hope your kids come back around. Keep him AWAY if you want to have your children back. That should help. Just think of that. If he comes back (more like WHEN), then look at him and just think to yourself that your children need you to say NO and walk away. That would work for me.

Take care and hugs 🙂

Oh by the way, about the sex thing, my god that was my brat as well!

He told me that he expected sex a minimum of three times per day. If I didn’t give it to him at least that many times, he would throw a tantrum and start calling me a whore, telling me that I am not a virgin, so how dare I act like I have the right to withhold sex from him! He once said to me right after supposedly “making love”: “How does it feel to know that you are a cum bucket?”

I think castration would help this situation. Castration to all spaths!!! Yes!

Oh yes, and I told him to go get himself TWO full time jobs (I was working 70 hours per week) and THEN let’s see how much energy he has left for sex.

All he did was sit around the house while I worked 12 hours per day! I was a freaking slave!!!



Donna – still not able to post my 8:15 post. For some reason the blog think it posted my post, and now sees any attempt as a duplicate comment. (and when i tried to add it to the above post, it marked it as spam. 😉 )


Panther – sweet, glad to see you have accessed your anger!

’cause this line is so in need of a tune up:’I have recently come to a conclusion about the physical violence. When I look back, I realize that I didn’t break easy. His nonsense and bs was constantly met with my stubborn, “you’re not fooling me!” attitude. I think that is how I got myself slapped a couple of times—and eventually strangled nearly to death. ‘

okay, i might be wrong about this, but i see the pride you have in resisting, but it is the mentality of a survivor (in my def. someone who outlasts the abuse), but it is still intimately connected to being victimized. I would applaud yourself for fighting back, but don’t think this was why he used physical violence. he did it because he WANTED TO. Even if you had ‘shut up’ and did everything he wanted…it probably wouldn’t have changed a damn thing. He was intent on harming you and blaming you for it.

greatcall on taking away his fun!

stupid violent moron.

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