By | July 5, 2010 45 Comments

LETTERS TO LOVEFRAUD: Do I drop the restraining order again?

Editor’s Note. Lovefraud received the following e-mail from a woman who we’ll call “Ursula.” Nine times, Ursula has filed a restraining order against her husband. Eight times she dropped it. She is due in court within a couple of weeks on the ninth order. He is pressing her to drop it, and she is wavering.

It has been 8 long years, 9 restraining orders and a child and marriage together. From the first date he brought 2 roses, one because I was beautiful, the second in I was worth it at the end of the date, go figure. Then he let me into the passenger’s side of the car and he came into through the drivier’s side and said I failed because I didn’t reach over and unlock his door before he got in.

Well, from there it became deep and full of drama, blamed, shamed, thrown out of cars pregnant, pitting wars between his family and I, lying about me to everyone so I would look bad and not him, lied about the abuse, told me to “shut the fuck up” on a daily basis, diabolical whore, devil woman, slut, stupid bitch, etc. Made me cry and then beg him to forgive me, for what I have no idea, I never knew how to love him right or be a good wife, mother, etc.

Nine Final Restraining orders that I dropped, except for this last one. He is telling me to do the right thing and vindicate him and clear his name because he is not an abuser, and I need to lie and say I committed perjury! Do the right thing, he says, and then HE will consider coming back to me after I build the bridge! Says he never abused me, I am psycho, crazy, turned his whole family against me and my own.

I feel totally alone and he has left us in financial ruin, and has no remorse, it’s all about him and his needs. He took everything I had, where do I go from here when I am so depressed and brainwashed?? DO i drop it again?? Or do I stay alone devastated and totally mind-screwed.

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Ox Drover

Dear Ursula,

Thank you for sharing your situation with us.

Why do you think he wants the restraining order dropped? Of course to save his face.

Him come back to you? AND WHY WOULD YOU WANT MORE OF THIS DRAMA/TRAUMA/ABUSE? It is all about HIM CONTROLLING YOU. YOu are not his “wife” you are his PROPERTY and he does not want to let his PROPERTY ESCAPE.

You stay ALONE for now but you HEAL. You CANNOT HEAL if you are with him, because HE is what you are healing from!

God bless you. Get that final order and then no matter how much you “miss” him, remember the times he has abused you and if (and WHEN because he will) violate that order, put his butt in jail. It is the only way you will be able to protect yourself from him. He will most likely stalk you some, but keep him NO CONTACT, and that means his family and any mutual friends as well. ANY contact with him will put you back to square one. Stay here and read and read all the old archiv ed articles here (just the articles for now, not all the comments as well yet) It will give you strength. Come here and blog, say anything, any where—we will stand behind you like a large force of friends who care—you do not deserve to be devalued and abused. You deserve better, but you must fight to keep him awayt!!!!! This is the time. Take a stand! You are stronger than you knoq. ((((Hugs))))) and my prayers for your wisdom, healing and safety!


Hi Ursula

Just to say you sound like you’re in a tough situation and that you’re really truely among people here who want to try to support you if they can. In my short-time here LF has been very supportive and people will not judge you whatever decisions you choose to make.

It sounds to me as though you are feeling completely broken down and ‘blackmailed’ at this point. I’m sorry you’re having these experiences.

All I’ll say is that In my experience (UK) a restraining order can be ‘dropped/revoked’ later by you if it’s not needed.

You’re telling the truth to us, I assume you’re going to tell the truth to the Court etc. So how can you be going ‘so far wrong’? I am concerned however, that if you don’t win your case you won’t feel ‘believed’ – as Court judgements and ‘truth’ can be and often are a long ways from one another. But maybe you do have a good legal case, of course it’s not possible to say here at this site.

So a restraining order may solve some but not all the difficulties in your life with your husband right now. However – by taking this step you will be sending a message that you are taking back control of your life (by hook or by crook). Of course an abusive man doesn’t want you to have any control in this situation. Of course he doesn’t want people to ‘know’.

But truely you have the right to ‘have your voice, to tell your truth and be safe/happy.’ Do you know why – because that right belongs to EVERYONE!

OxDrover is very experienced (from reading her posts) and gives great advice. I think she is right. Start with the main articles and go on from there. There’s lots of information here. But be sure to get good legal advice in your own case etc as this is support forum and not really laid out to answer clearly how to deal with legal/court stuff clearly, for a start we’re posting from many different locations/states/countries.

I have found domestic abuse services (not just for physical abuse, but for financial, emotional abuse etc) can be really helpful in some areas. Why not give them a try too? They can sometimes provide lists of good lawyers/solicitors who ‘get’ these kind of issues and how to deal with them.

Best and warmest wishes Ursula. Please keep posting if you find it helpful!

Delta 1


Thank you for having the courage to reach out!
NOW…it’s time to follow through.

I received my first TPO as I got out of hospital, my house was ransacked by spath. I was in no condition to defend myself, I had just been told I had cancer.
HE did the same thing, try and talk us into dropping an order, threaten us to drop the order…..they all do! I dropped the first one, because he said he wouldn’t attend counceling unless I did. I did…..and as soon as I dropped it……he was confrimed, he could control me and he did! Until I got wise!!! I regret dropping that first order……BUT… tought me to go balls to the wall with ALL the rest! I follow them to a T… this day…..3 years later!
It’s to push you to see how far you will go, see how serious you are about ENDING this relationshop! You drop it, your not serious… gives them an opening.
Bottom line….if there is a TPO in place….WE SHOULD NOT BE SPEAKING TO THEM!!!!!! NO CONTACT!!! It states this right in the order!
This is where we allow them to ‘gain entry’ into our minds to control our thoughts, feel guilty, allow ourselves to be weakend. NO CONTACT!!!!!

Use this time of N/C to get out…..and start a new life. I swear, I was able to remove myself from his ‘ties’ by this restraining order. I didn’t have the constant barage of I love you’s, the lies, the manipulations, his CRAP.
It gave me peace and it gave me time to realize what I wanted/needed to do to protect my kids!

Tomorrow, I go again for the 3rd stalking and harassment hearing extension for another year. I assure you…..I WILL BE THERE, I will NOT keep his secrets, I will NOT TOLERATE his abuse of ANY kind…….and HE DOESN”T OWN ME! HE CAN”T CONTROL ME or my kids……and this is what I NEED TO DO!!!!!
He may show up…..lies he believes in hand…..some crazy defense hes’ talked himself into…..whatever……or he may NOT show up?
EITHER WAY…..I don’t care……I”M MOVING FORWARD WITH THIS, and I’m gonna continue to follow through, report and keep myself and my kids safe!!!!!

A TPO is NOT a golden fence around us……it is another layer of the law….to keep them away……AND IF they don’t stay away…..there are legal consequences. We also, must abide by this order and NOT allow contact OR contact them! If contact is made in ANY way…..REPORT THIS VIOLATION! Report ALL violations.

I think you are well aware……by dropping a TPO numerous times….you are diminishing your validity to the courts. This is NOT a smart thing to do.
If you apply for a TPO……KEEP IT!
If you remotely think you wont’ need/want it later……DON”T APPLY FOR IT!

Victims must be mindful not to devalue the legal process of TPO’s. It not only effects you, but many, many other victims behind you.

It sounds as if your fear lays in your future. You MUST KNOW… can succeed and move beyond this abuse….BUT….he won’t be the one to take you there. YOU must do it for yourself!
We all have this power, we can all ‘save’ ourselves……it’s a long hard road…..but hey…..look at the road your on….it ain’t no cakewalk either!!! GET OUT!!!!!!

Your future with him is clear…..and HE AIN”T GONNA CHANGE!!!

I HIGHLY suggest you keep this order in place and go for an extension…..FOLLOW IT TO THE LETTER……and REPORT ANY/ALL times he contacts you!!!!

Go NO CONTACT! Keep the order….and ENFORCE IT!!!!!


Hello again.

Ursula – I can see ErinBrock has thought of a really important point about dropping any order. It’s possible to do it, but yes in some cases it can go against women later (particularly when it come to child custody cases).

Sometimes a social worker (which I am) or judge can see repeatedly applying for but then dropping orders as evidence that you’ve been intimidated by an abusive partner. However, with less experienced SW’s or unenlightened judges it could be read the the other way that you’re somehow taking these steps for malicious or ‘strategic’ reasons (not what I think I want to be clear here) it’s also possible that any order would be considered ‘unenforceable’ and in the system I work in, ‘unenforceable’ can be grounds for ‘making no order’ at all.

Again this is based on my understanding of the UK system in domestic abuse cases related to child protection. It may not be applicable to your situation.

Please get some good legal advice from someone who understands and specialises in domestic abuse cases in your country/state ASAP.

I think ErinBrock has expressed really well, and better than I could how much you need to make a new future for your and your child! All I can say is, from my own experience as target of an abusive man – they never get better, but YOU CAN get better.


Delta 1 x



This man has definitely put you through hell! Keep the restraining order. He has no problem abusing you – take care of you (as hard as it might be). Involvement with a spath flattens you out emotionally, spiritually, financially, etc. You don’t need ANY MORE OF HIS CRAP, having experienced enough chit from him. Let him have consequences to his actions. You deserve so much better, having the RIGHT to exist on a daily basis without him in the picture, stirring up more trouble (DRAMA). No one needs the nonsense that these spaths throw our way.

Ursula, Welcome to Lovefraud. You will find this a healing place. I would just like to add to the sage advice (with which I agree of the others) IT WILL GET BETTER> Right now you feel lost and alone and devastated, but believe me, after a few months of NO CONTACT you will start to feel better, absent his demeaning verbal and other abuse. You will start to have peace in your life, without him destroying it. You will regain your sense of self, absent the lies and manipulation and gaslighting.

Leaving a Spath is a bit like stepping out from a house of mirrors, at first the stability of the real world looks wonky, then suddenly we regain our balance and learn to trust what we see as real again.

It is a long and lonely struggle, but just take care of yourself and your child, hug yourself, say good things to yourself, be proud of every day that you are free of his evil intent.

And remember, there is NO woman who could be the proper wife for him. And there is no reward, emotional, financial or other, for staying in his web and trying to make it work.

I think this is part of what makes it so difficult for those of us that have tried to stay long term with these creatures. We have so much energy invested in trying to do the impossible, in trying to fix the unfixable. It is painful to admit that all our heavy lifting was for naught. But far better to cut and run than to give up more of your sanity and equilibrium to a thankless, heartless, remorseless abuser.

I hope you will keep us posted, and wish you a speedy recovery from a long and painful ordeal.

There is peace and joy on the other side. : )


Ursula-Don’t drop the restraining order.It will be the same stuff different day.You are not a person to him but property or possession.He sees you as someone to dominate and torture.Think of your kids.They deserve better and so don’t you.Let the healing start now.

Elizabeth Conley

“DO i drop it again?? Or do I stay alone devastated and totally mind-screwed.”

You’ve got the question wrong. The question is:

“DO I drop it again and stay alone, devastated and totally mind-screwed, or do I take my life back?”

There is no way this POS of yours is going to pull himself together and become a man any time soon – if ever.

Since you’ve withdrawn 8 restraining orders, he’s got to be pretty confident you’ll cave in again. He thinks he owns you girl, and maybe he’s right. If you keep on withdrawing restraining orders, sooner or later the cops are going to hope he kills you, just to reduce their paperwork load. (Kidding) BUT SERIOUSLY, it’s time to grow a spine.

Loose 200 lbs of ugly fat instantly. Drop the loser now!

Elizabeth Conley

Once you’ve got your life back, you can enjoy closer relationships with the type of people you deserve to be with. With a bit of retraining, you can even find a life partner who knows how to be a partner and wants to build a good life with you.

The key is, you’ve got to get rid of the loser. The farther away you are from him, the longer you are away from him, the better your life will be.


Okay….so today I go to court….me and eldest for the extended stalking and Hara order….another year!

So… usual….the ‘eve’ of a court hearing….someone is trotting through our yard. First 11pm with a flashlight ( saw through my monitors)….then kids wake me up because my ever so feroucious Holly is barking/growling and attacking the window. One kid was up watching tv at 1:30 am, because he was spooked earlier…..and he said someone peered through that window.
They called the police.
Police came, (15 minutes later!) and searched the property…..nothing.

The other cops were combing the neighborhood and forest around here……they found a guy who said he was waiting for a cab????? A CAB???? Uh, we don’t live in the city folks….
Don’t know who it was…..but cops were well aware of ‘that’ house around the corner…..the one with the lights on.
I have no idea where spath is…..or if he’ll show up in court today…..i’m having my doubts.

Ursula…..I’ll tell ya……It would be much worse if I didn’t have these orders!!!!!! MUCH WORSE!!!!
He’d just enter my home whenever he pleased. Spaths are entitled to anything they dream up.

I’m glad I have these orders…..
I hope it’s extended today for another year!!!!!


EB – i am so sorry that you are being harassed, again.

your kids are awesome.

did they take him in for questioning….noooo?

maybe holly should get a rotty friend and they could sleep outdoors. maybe you need an outdoor motion alarm system aimed at shoulder height.

won’t suggest my other ideas, but you know my fave saying, ‘can’t live with them, can’t kill them with impunity.’

Good luck today – although I doubt you’ll need it. Take it easy and all best wishes.

one step

Ox Drover

Dear EB,

Isn’t it a coincidence that the date of the person being in your yard WAITING FOR A CAB!!!!! ROTFLMAO was about when you were going back to court!

Good girl, Holly!

Just take care of yourself EB, I know it is a constant irritation (at BEST) to have this crap happen over and over and over.

I’ve actually been doing pretty well with son D gone for the summer as I don’t go anywhere “alone”—even out to feed the dogs, but there has been like zilch, zip, zero activity from anyone out this way, even the “Crazy Bob” nieghbor.

My dogts let me know if there is anything unusual, even a critter out and about that is not supposed to be here. But they have a human bark and a critter bark so I can tell pretty much by how they bark what is going on and the little Jack Russel Terrier has a heck of a set of ears! He can detect people on the place a long time before I can see them or they are even in range of eye sight. I had some oil rig workers walking the woods a while back and he told me they were there a full 15 minutes before they got to where I could see them, and which direction they were coming from. None of them spoke English very well, but they did UNDERSTAND ” OLD WOMAN WITH A BIG GUN” standing there and their eyes got BIG when they popped out of the woods and saw me standing there because they were NOT expecting what they saw.

I finally got it across to the oil and gas drilling folks that they should CALL BEFORE sending a crew out and the next time any of their workers cuts a fence to get in that there will be legal hell to pay. So I don’t have much problem any more and usually they are in big groups of from 5-10 of them so it isn’t like I am worried or think they are coming for ME in particular but if only 1 or 2 show up, I will hold them til the sheriff gets here to clear up any misunderstandings.

It doesn’t look like yours is going to “give up” and really in truly go away any time soon, unless he goes to prison, and maybe not even then. If you just hadn’t been such a b1atch to him, he would have been nice to you, I know. LOL ROTFLAMO

What has gone on with “Adult” son’s desire to buy a car over the internet? LOL I know you would hate to see him get taken for 5$K but they are soooooo arrrogant at that age. I shudder to think how much I thought I knew at that age! LOL Actually it might be a CHEAP lesson at twice the price for tuition for the U. of Hard Knocks. Might also make him see that mommie is not the idiot he thinks she is or that he is not the rocket scientist he thinks he is! LOL

Well, hope you don’t have any more trouble tonight. Give Holly a bone for me and tell her that Auntie Oxy thinks she is a fineee doggie!


Hi guys….well another spath no show in court!
Funny, how he was calling the courts a few weeks ago, wanting to talk or see or write kids a letter…..and today he had the prime opportunity to see a kid…..and NO SHOW!
Hmmmmmm Actions vs words…..

I’m damn glad he didn’t show up… I was sitting there I realized I didn’t bring the file I had JUST been working on to give him for $$ owed and the car registration that I cancelled and deed, etc….I had a file all put togethrer to present to him in person….and get that deed signed off….and dang it…..I forgot the file….what a dipshiat!
Never mind….he didn’t show up….so I will just have to mail it to him.

We were granted another year. Judge said I can try to have him served via his drug attorney or at his drug hearing…if he keeps hiding from service. Judge said the order is VALID and in place without him being served this notification and he made specific writings in the order to state such.
He said still try and have him served but he understood how slippery this one is, and the order is binding without service.

So gang…..another year. Let’s see how it unfolds.
Thank god i’ve got my Holly golly.


ErinBrock, you always take my breath away. You do have stamina, I have to give you that. The “no show” is their typical MO when they don’t have control over a situation. I hope he slithered back under the rock he came from.

Celebrate, it’s a great 4th week for you!


Ursula- my heart goes out to you, just be with what you feel, and say what you think. I really hear you when you say:

“DO i drop it again?? Or do I stay alone devastated and totally mind-screwed!.

and my answer is…yes you stay alone, devastated and totally mind screwed.

just stay with all the horrible feelings, and know that whatever you do it is understandable, an impossible situation, but please put one word in front of the other and stay in with the interaction here on LF

I believe YOU have the answers, you know what you have to do…so when you are ready just ask yourself what it is you WANT to do and then, talk about that, write it out …bounce it off us folk here , rant and rave …begin to express it outwards, so that it is
what it is…..YOU are the one that will know what to do..tell me about it, that’s all you need to do for now….blessings and love

Ox Drover

TOWANDA!!!!!! EB!!!!

Looks like you have a great judge who has the P figured out! What a blessing!!!!

And you know, NOT having to look at his smarmy face is probably a blessing too! Especially when he finds out that even without being served the order is GOOD! I bett-ya he thinks because he sliped away from service it is no good any more!! OH BOY!!!! wait til he finds out the hard way it is still good!

Too bad he didn’t visit with Jr. when Jr. got his own restraining order! LOL hee hee bawhhhhhaaa ha ha


Erin Brock:

I think we should devise some booby traps for this late night prowler who keeps coming into your yard.

Something that screams “Surprise!”…and NOT in a good way.

I think you know what I mean.

Anyway, let’s brainstorm.


peacocks are very good warning systems. screech like hell.

Ox Drover

Problem with peacocks is keeping them in (they can fly well) and they are expensive. Geese however are fairly cheap and are great guard dogs, and your neighbors wouldn’t hate you if they heard them, but the peacocks are LOUD and awful.

I don’t know how your yard is…fenced? open? wooded? How about some TRIP WIRES like Viet Nam? Electric fence? Be hard to spot even in day time and TRIP them up at night when they get their feet hung in them.

Can’t put out anything that would really do some harm, like the shot gun one man put out and shot the burglar that kept coming back. The jury did let him off though and he didn’t get any jail time….only in Arkansas, or maybe Texas, Mississippi or Kentucky….oh, well, it’ls still a valid defensxe here that “he just needed killin’ ” LOL My kinda state!


How do peacocks do in the winter? 🙂

Like I told the cop last night….I’ve installed more sensor lights.
I talked to the kids about looking at the lights and which ones are ‘on’ if they see anything weird. We are pretty forested, so the lights are easy to tell if someone has been in a certain area around property. And they stay on for 5 min.

It just seems crazy that this is STILL going on. Damn, we’ve been separated for 3 years.

I think his thug uncles will appear next. He’s got some hard core mexican, old time gang bangers in his extended family.
Bring em on….I ain’t afraid on them either……They’ve never met a smart, pissed off white chic on a mission! (With security cameras, wasp spray and peacocks!).

Rosa…..what do ya think of those misters that spray water….I could have a trip line set up to set off misters hung around perimiter of property filled with wasp spray?

I guess I could offer the police a training site on my property…..graveyard shift only! If they can shoot dogs and bears in my area……i’m sure a spath wouldn’t be off limits!

I still need to do some diggen in the yard. There is SOMETHING out there for sure!!!! I’m still convinced this is why these appearances are being made.
I don’t think it’s to get a glimpse of the kids watching tv at 1:30 in the morning.


Erin Brock:

I like the misters filled with wasp spray idea.

I am also a big fan of paint.
Because when someone steps into a tray full of paint, they will track it all over the neighborhood as they try to escape.

Then you will be able to track these cock roaches.

I think a combo of these 2 ideas would be effective.

P.S. Night vision goggles are not just for the military anymore….get yourself some camouflage.


EB – well, maybe something you can cook would be a better idea.

mist/ dump paint instead of bug spray. and triggered sound alarms at the same time.


speaking of Paint – how’s it gong with Mr. Studly that you met at the paint store Erin B?


If I cooked up some crack…..and put bear traps out…..that might attract him One!

Rosa… the night vision goggles. Check!


Mr. Studly is Mr. Dudly so far. Haven’t heard a peep.


Speaking of Studly turned Dudly…

Do you guys remember the man I was posting about on here last summer?
I was trying to decide whether to send him a birthday present or not, because he lives in another part of the country.

I really wanted to send him a present, because he’s done some really nice things for me.
But, I decided against it at the last minute.

Something in my gut told me to just let it be.

I found out via the internet that he was arrested 8 months ago for a DWI……and this man is over 50 years old. Red Flag?

I have spoken to him on the phone a few times since his arrest and he has not mentioned it once.
He doesn’t know that I know.
And I have not let on to him that I know about his arrest.
He’s had plenty of opportunities to tell me, but he has chosen not to.

Maybe he’s embarrassed about it. But, I don’t like people who demand complete honesty and then withhold information from me. It feels like lying by omission or something.
When I met him, one of the first things he told me was what an “honorable” man he was.

Maybe I’m hyper-sensitive, but something like this brings back a lot of bad memories for me……things I don’t want to re-live.

So, I did not send him a birthday present this year, either.
And I don’t expect to be talking to him again.

The moral of this story is: TRUST YOUR GUT (even if you cannot put your finger on what it is that’s bothering you)…IT’S NEVER WRONG.


Rosa I remember you telling us about him. Your gut was telling you something was not right. Just send me a birthday pressie instead, it’s coming up soon..!


Yes Rosa….I remember the quandry AND I remember my response….NO, NO, NO, NO……
I guess….if we have to ask others…..this is a red flag also….
Yeah….anyone who has to ‘tell’ us he’s honest and honerable or faithful is a BULLSHITTER!
These are things you don’t have to tell someone… show them, you just ‘live’ it and it comes out on its’ own!
He sure showed you didn’t he!!!
What a loser!!!!
Glad your not in a quandry this year….

Great lesson……GUT baby….GUT!


DON’T drop the restraining order. He will just continue to use you and abuse you.


such eloquence: ‘Yeah”.anyone who has to ’tell’ us he’s honest and honerable or faithful is a BULLSHITTER!’

my fave line the other dupe has for the ppath: ‘she’s a lying sack of shit.’


Rosa – my ppath demanded honesty. yah. okay. uh huh.


yeah….they demand honesty… they can keep ya off balance with it!!!!


when someone say’s [ well to be honest ] RUN~!


Or ends a statement with ‘I PROMISE’ or ‘Trust me’ or ‘would I lie to you’……RUN!!!

Ox Drover

Good sense ROSA!!! It’s the ONE red flag for me too. If they’ve got one, they’ve got more! Never fails!

Dani S

GRRRRRRRRRR bad night! Had been going a long so nicely and happily and was looking forward so much to tomorrow! To refresh memories my ex husband evil spath has 3 girls to 3 different women including our daughter together.
I have retained a close relationship with his middle child and her mother but have only seen his eldest 17 year old daughter twice in 2 years although we msn chat and are facebook friends.

I had a friend request on Facebook last week from the 17 year olds auntie. We have had lovely conversations and she wanted to organise a catch up for all the siblings to the ex spath. I was so looking forward to this as I love all the girls very much, that was until………..
I received a phone call tonight from the auntie. She explained to me that her sister dropped of her daughter to her and she needed some help with her computer. On the computer the 17 year olds mother saw there was conversations between me and the auntie and completely flipped out.

She said to the Auntie about me, ” What are you doing being friends with that women, I forbid you and my daughter to have anything to do with her. You have no idea what that women has done” Auntie said “Why are you still protecting this man, you havent heard from him in over 2 years” and she responded ” You dont know what that women has done to John (ex father inlaw) and everyone”

I am completely in shock and cant even defend myself as I dont even know what I am supposed to have done.
I know when I was married, ex borrowed a lot of money from a lot of people including this ex and his father and I am thinking that somehow he has convinced these people whom know he is a lying con man that it was me that lost all there money… I am so confused…. I hate being thrown back into this anxious horrible world. I hate people believing stuff about me, it really hurts, especially when it effects my relationship with my daughters sisters. I would love to know what he has told them, that strangely she and the ex father in law believe. Any wonders they have not contacted me since I left husband. The 17 year olds mother has always been very conditioned by the ex but she has not had anything to do with him herself for years although she is close with my ex father in law. She has never even gone out with a single man and not even one date since they broke up when she was pregnant with his child nearly 18 years ago.
I know she is desperately trying to protect her daughter, but she has it all wrong!

Anyhoo I am just purging because I feel like shit all over again!

Erin B good luck with it all, but when does it all end? grrrrr

Ursula we know how you feel! keep protecting yourself! Loneliness is much better for now than living in fear, anxiety, confusion and uncertainty. The only way we can get our lives back is to be as far away from them as possible!
Mine too seemed to take great pleasure in the name calling and didn’t stop until he broke me. I was always so confused because I didn’t know what I had done wrong! Evil, Evil people. I wish I could go back to the first day I met him and turn and walk way. 🙂


Hi Dani S

I know, I know, I know. This kind of ‘blindsiding’ thing is soooooooo horrible. I relate totally to the scenario where you’re going about your business peacefully and then – BOOM! you end up wandering onto a the emotional equivalent of a ‘landmine’ that you weren’t expecting, but for which the ground had been carefully laid much before you’re even aware there’s problem. Even worse the bomber is the person who’s already caused so much unendurable and gratuitous pain and who you’re trying so hard to ‘get over’. It’s so TOTALLY unfair. I mean TOTALLY!!

I’m not sure what to advise you except to take a deep breath and resist the temptation to rush into explaining anything to anyone before you’ve had a proper chance to think it though and process properly.

I know that there’s a specific event coming up that this is going to affect – but I would say………….there may be ways round this if you take some time and don’t panic.

I do empathise because I had to miss out (in the beginning) on sooooo many events (a long-time friend’s wedding, god-daughter’s christening etc etc) because my exN would not stop turning up to everything with his new ‘target’ in tow for absolutely ages.

Everyone in ‘our former circle’ was trotting out the whole ‘we can’t take sides line’ and it drove me crazy because no-one other than 3 close friends /family members could take a stand and say that he was abusive and that he should STAY AWAY FROM ME.

I remember so bitterly that it was enough for exN to have some vague connection to the person having the event or gathering for him to ‘turn up’ at any social of any description – knowing that this would ‘ruin it’ for me. I know this was deliberate cruelty s on his part and from a desire to ‘try and regain control’ over me.

I’ll say this though- the 3 people who saw through him are GOLD and the experience immensely strengthened & deepened my friendship with these 3 lovely people. Do you know what – it may have been worth losing ‘less enlightened souls’ who just didn’t get it!

The other thing that happened from this really hurtful time was that I was forced to ‘get a new life’. I formed a band – am now doing really well with it and many of those people who were initially unable to see what was ‘going on’ with nasty exN are inviting me to parties and blah, blah, blah. But I’ve truly moved on and so ‘I don’t even care what they think anymore! I’ve evolved greatly and am not impressed by these ‘fairweather’ types in the slightest.

Really good strategy to come to LF for help from some of the only people who really understand the way S’s P’s and and N’s operate!!! GOOD ON YOU!

The only thing I can think of is that if you’ve been getting on well with ‘auntie’ you can hang onto the fact that if you ‘keep your cool’ and say well ‘it’s tricky because I don’t want to speak ill of anyone – make your own mind up, she may decide to ‘rebel’ against her sister (mother of 17 yr old if I’ve got it right?). All may not be lost, she may have reasons to think well of you and not be ‘blinded’. On the other hand ‘auntie’ is in a very difficult position and I think that you should acknowledge that for her. Maybe organise another event yourself later – don’t ‘fight over’ this particular get together – think of winning the war and not just the one battle!!!

In his book the Betrayal Bond which I’ve just finished reading Patrick Carnes mentions some stuff which may be relevant about how making the whole range of changes in our lives needed to get away from the S N or P in our life can be excruciatingly painful – if you’ve not read this – check it out maybe.

In my own experience it’s taken over 2 years to ‘cull’ everyone from my life who had a connection with exN and fine new people to be with that were ‘not tainted by any association whatsoever’ with my exN. This was one of the the MOST painful and unfair parts of the whole sorry mess for me. In the end, I partly understood that this was a symptom of having neglected my own life/friends in favour of exN in the first place. I was so focused on the relationship I didn’t have as solid a network as after the relationship ended as I would have liked.

I have no idea if something similar happened for you of course, so forgive me if this is ‘off track’.

I guess I hope you are able to spend some time with people who do unequivocally love and care about you asap as this to remind yourself that there’s more than enough friends, relations and just general ‘humans beings’ in this world to ‘go around’.

I know from my own shattered life that sometimes it takes a bit of hard work to find people who are ‘there for us’ at a time when we may feel too depleted to really give energy to creating the new happy life that we really deserve. Everything in good time………. ‘ I guess how you’ll feel will depend on where you are in your healing journey right now.

I suppose that if ‘auntie’ doesn’t come through and ‘see the light’ and be a good friend – the only thing I’d hang onto is the thought that ………….”nature abhors a vacuum”. Who know what lovely person may ‘pop up’ in your life – just because there happen’s to be a vacancy there………….. just a thought. :}

Anyway I hope it helps to know other people who’ve been there are wishing you well and are struggling with the same issues. We all go taken in by the N S or P in our life, but we’re learning better and we’re on your side hun!




Hi all – I read the articles here regularly until about the last two months or so – been so busy with “normal life” – but still get the e-mailed links and check in.

URSULA your thread has made me stop and reflect and has moved me to write to you…

Please dear lady – go NO CONTACT. Learn what it means and do it – or you will spend may more years miserable.

I promise you – if you do the work of recovering yourself and your life – you can be happy again, and lighthearted – maybe not as lighthearted as before your nutjob latched on to you but I promise – a better life waits for you away from him. No financial, emotional or any other entanglement can benefit you enough to put up with him.

I know it is possible even when living with the devil a mere 8 minute walk from my own front door.

I am now going on my 6th year of nonsense.

My ex-N/S path is fully insane now – and he lives 4 blocks from me and believes alternately that he is God, or Jesus or a King and is constantly seeking his papers – his royalty papers or his resurrection papers.

When I met him, when I was assessed by his calculating self centered mind and then wooed until I was in a state mentally the experts call Stockholm Syndrome he was not that far gone. It was his self indulgence in drugs, something I was blind to, that sent him over the edge and when I tried to escape him after 2.5 years he promised me we would never be apart – the we would always be together. He believes we are fated. (I want to vomit as I write this).

I have put him in jail multiple times, at least 15 in the last two & a half years time – plus multiple stays at the psych ward. The judge has declared he is the kind that will kill his girlfriend (me) and yet bonded him out repeatedly. His psychiatrist (his attorney sent him to a top guy) sent me a Tarasoff warning. Google it and weep. His old friends have had him sent to the psych ward – always within two weeks he is out. I cannot understand how “The Front Porch Talker” was committed and this man we cannot seem to keep behind bars – unreal how the system fails us.

The last time he went to jail (June 09) for his “big” sentence on 5 counts – he went for 16 months only due to timing etc it ended up being 5 months. He got out last November 16 – visited me twice which I could not prove – I and my babysitter who at the time lived with me but is now gone and who can blame her…heard my very locked down gates being rattled. Then two months later (January 10) he had someone call me – while he listened in and I had to play dumb and neutral – I knew if I showed emotion positive or negative he would think he still could manipulate me, say I knew nothing of him currently and maybe they should call his brother (whom he hates – a way of saying – go away that I knew would buy me some quiet)… He gives out my mobile phone number to people in jail – and I receive calls. It is horrifying. My number has been a business line for over 12 years – I cannot change it as there is no way to reach all my clients and let them know.

Finally having exhausted every other person in his world who kept telling him to call me would mean a return to jail – he could not contain himself any longer and he openly called my home one night a month ago – my two young children here with a sitter who knew what to do. She got off the phone and called me about this strange man calling. I had her alarm the house and before I called the cops he called me on my mobile… He knew he was not supposed to call me but could not stop himself because of course the rules do not apply to him… I left a work meeting and drove the 45 minutes home in 25 minutes time. Kids asleep cops once again at my house I swore out a citizens arrest and off to jail he went. Let out on bond, then back to get a plea deal – given 4 months time for the two calls that night… They let him out to “wrap up his affairs” before he goes in on July 31. He has NO AFFAIRS to wrap up. Does not work, does not pay his bills, nothing… And so as his anxiety about going to jail mounts and I sit here four blocks away – financially powerless to move and a myriad of other reasons… I wait for the explosions that will undoubtedly occur before his next incarceration.

ALL OF THAT and I can tell you truthfully – I laugh now more than I did for many years – I am contented now more than I was – I hate that I have this shadow in my life but I have let go of fighting it and I accept it. It is something I deal with when I have to and then – I am usually within hours of an occurrence – a reminder – I am able to move on and focus back on MY LIFE. My children, my home, my friends, my work, my sanity.

Truly – I feel to some degree sad for people like him – he is terminally ill – there is no cure. But like any illness that could by contact harm me or my children, I avoid it like the plague.

I suggest you do the same.

If you are in a position to move then do so. If you can attend domestic violence counseling, I suggest group actually so you can see that YOU ARE NOT ALONE – then do it.
Keep reading here.
Go look up Stockhold Syndrome.
Read the book “Why Does He Do That” by Lundy Bancroft – read it – you will begin to understand how little his behavior has to do with you and how little chance there is of change.

The simplest and yet best book I read that helped me learn what normal is since I was so far removed from any understanding of it after he brainwashed me beyond recognition, is “What Smart Women Know” by Steven Carter and Julia Sokol – it in a simple and sweet way shares basic advice and things that any women who wants to be treated well knows. I was not born with or taught these simple basics but I want my girls to have them ingrained in their bones so when a N/S/P crosses their paths in life – which I know is unavoidable – they know what to do. GET AS FAR AWAY PHYSICALLY, MENTALLY, EMOTIONALLY as possible. Stay as unentangled as possible.

Good luck to you. Sorry for the long response. Your post obviously has triggered in me a reflection on my own journey.

When I filed my first retraining order in December of 07 they told me it generally takes women 7 episodes of violence before they will keep and maintain it – I maintained my order – I never dropped it but I will admit I did for a time allow him to violate it. I finally got a 3 year order in the civil courts and the criminal courts which generally give a one year order just gave me a new 3 year order as well.

DO NOT DROP THE ORDER. Your life has so much more value for you and those that love you and that you love, separated from him.


I agree and second your ’emotions’!!!!

It is a long road…..and one we must not ignore, yet not allow to overtake us either!

Good going on your follow through….I, like you, believe this is our only way to proceed!!!

Great post! Thanks!

Dani S

Thank you for your lovely message. I am up again after only sleeping 3 hours tonight….. You are so right about taking my time with dealing with this situation. I get thrown back into the old defensive survival mode where I feel I have to justify every move I make, but in the end people will believe what they believe for what ever reason and your words have picked me up and given me strength.

I too did the big cull after the relationship ended and the ones that stood by me and never questioned me I love. I have moved on a million miles from the dark days. I am surrounded by beautiful people and have been in a new relationship for couple of months now.

I guess I wouldn’t have been so effected if it was just anyone that believes the crap that dribbles out of his mouth but being someone in the relationship jig saw to my daughter really hurts.
I am so happy, my daughter who is only nearly 3 has a great relationship with one of her half sisters and her mother has been of great comfort to me and for that I am grateful.

When I finally left ex h s after my last beating the lies he told about me were soul destroying. He said things to everyone that would listen that ” he cant see our child because he believes that the child is not his and cant bond with it because of that.” That I stole from our business thousands of dollars also that I stole all his clients away and gave them to a competitor that is why the business went bad and he couldn’t pay his debts.
True friends and family saw that after leaving I didn’t even own a car any more was in thousands of $$ debts and had to live with my parents with 3 kids for a year before I got back on track, it was obvious that I had not stolen 1 cent.

It is funny everything he accused me of were things that he was capable of doing and was doing, not me!
I hate that through his evilness he can still control and manipulate and god know’s what other things lie in front of me that I have no idea about.

Because of your post I am not going to get upset, auntie said she will drop 17 year old in for visit, but we cant go to her house as she has a 6 year daughter and she may dob on her! God how crazy is this?lol
I pulled back from the 17 year old in the beginning as she was ringing me every day crying, and her grades were suffering, I had a break down and was said to be suffering Post Traumatic Stress so I didn’t think I was doing her any favours at the time when I was such a mess. In hindsight if I stayed close to her things may have transpired differently but who know’s. Spath’s just make a complete mess of everything don’t they.
Yes and as mine tries to parade around with the new victim on arm that he is greatest! grrrrrrrr

What amazes me is how convincing they are. The 17 year old mother’s was a victim of his lies, cheating,stealing, conning, violence but yet she gives him credibility, I would have thought she of as all people would understand where I have come from and what I have been through but she was really angry, so what ever she has been told must be good! Auntie said she will try to find out what it is that have turned that side of the family against me! And as I said to the Auntie her sister is feeling really betrayed at the moment finding out we have re connected. I don’t want to be caught up in any drama’s and at the end of the day I feel for the 17 year old. She has been through so much her self and I dont want to cause her anymore pain as much as I dont want it or need it also.

Ex abandoned all his daughters, somehow I am sure that that was my fault in his eyes. Truth is his older 2 girls are getting older and he cant lie and con future victims with them in the background knowing the truth and he assaulted the 17 year old xmas before last by throwing her into a wall, that was the last time her saw her. And her mother still protects him, weird!
She must still be brainwashed by him even thou they now have no relationship any more, or maybe she blames me for that?

Thanks so much for the post you really have made me feel better, lucky we have LF! lol
You go girl with the Band that is fantastic. We all need an outlet and music is a wonderful way to get out what is inside us! My new partner is Muso as well! Anyhoo I am going to try to get some more sleep as it is now 5.54 here in Oz and it is going to be a long day lol 🙂 🙂 🙂

super chic

breckgirl, glad to hear you have been busy living your life,
even though it’s with -as you called it- a shadow.
I have missed you,
thank you for the great post!!! Good advice.

Dani S

Delta sorry for the enormous purge!!!! Had a great day catching up with the 17 years old and all her siblings and step siblings. She dropped in for about 2 hours and for the first time ever we sat down and talked as adults about everything! She know’s me and know’s the truth and that is all that matters! She will be 18 soon, so hopefully we can have a normal relationship before too long. The kids miss her so much and I am extremely proud of the girl she is today! 🙂


Dani….Good for you. Heartwarming I know!!!

I believe kids will always see what they need to see in their own time. And the more they are ‘pushed’ away from someone, the more they ‘see’ why.



Oh yay Dani S. Thanks for your message as it’s really good to know that I was able to help a little.

I’m very glad indeed that things have worked out so far with 17 yr old and auntie.

Really once we go ‘No Contact’ the healing begins, your life is going to get better and better if you keep your antenna up and ‘doing what your doing’.

I think you deserve a treat after all this drama – a lovely long bath soak (with bubbles) or something pampering to reward yourself for getting through this little ‘crisis’ so well this time.



Dani S

EB you are so right!!!! kids do eventually get it! I was so disappointed the day I woke up and realised my own parents were not perfect lol, Hope everything is going well for you at the moment and you have some peace from the madness for the time being. I love your strength and conviction, your children have a lot to admire in their mum or should I say mom! The more crap the ex gives you, the stronger he is making you, be proud!

Delta Thank you again! I did treat myself to nearly a whole pizza, god I hate for being an emotional eater LOL! but what a day of such mixed emotions….. Now I am searching for the lolly jar! Maybe you are right a soak in the bath with bubbles and some bubbles in a glass is the go!

The 17 year old told me she has taken up Martial Arts for the past 18 months for the sole reason if she ever runs into her father again she wants to kick his arse for the past 17 years of hurt, betrayal and abuse. She says to her own mother that she no longer has a father! I love her strength and like EB look out she is turning herself into a machine not to be messed with and I am so glad unlike her mother she can see her father for the evil spath he is and has every intention of wiping him for the rest of her life. She also told me when we were married her mother gave him the her key card as he needed money for something and he cleaned the whole account out $4,000, the money she was saving for her first car. I had no idea, I am sure I only ever knew what that man was up to about 10% of the time! I hope Karma comes in the form of a very big angry Elephant and squishes him like a helpless ant and then poo’s on him!!
🙂 🙂 🙂

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